Who do you prefer, Kara or Shade?

[Jacques00]

There's one in the bottom of Savin's design doc for Kara Quest 2 about what happens if Shade simply lets you go instead of making you fight her. 

Her encounter during KaraQuest 2 is temporarily disabled when she is technically supposed to be on Uveto. I had added that check because there was a bug report or mentioning of that somewhere and I thought it would be best to fix that consistency issue. Her bar encounter should still be possible after the quest though, which was Savin's intent. This should be more obvious when Uveto is in though. Shade should only appear in KQ2 if she is canonically on Myrellion, so it is only possible to see her if she hasn't mentioned going off to Uveto.


If this is not how it is supposed to be, I can try changing it back.

 

[Tainted-Alice]

That is probably gonna take some work. 


But gives me a weird fanfic Idea that when Vic decides to have a Kaithrit kid he tracks down Ms. Irons.     Would totally derail the story.


I mean Vic does seem as smooth as a social Solar or psionic but he'd have a lot of time to make up for and deal with the premise of the quest and a teen Shade if I got the ages right. 

Well I'm never choosing Kaithrit again x( 


P.s this part is sarcasm  xD

 

[Magic Ted]

Ah yes, the age old incest debate of "well no one would find it creepy if it there wasn't any genetic issues with children!" done by people without siblings. The chance of that is already higher then otherwise for a single generation, but still within the single digits. (I tangibly believe it goes from .something to 2%, but how much of that is just ~numbers~ someone decided is a mystery.)


Incest will always be weird because of the nature of the relationship between family. This is both a social issue, by way of traditional pressure and the relationship itself as well as a physiological one, with your brain going "hey don't bone that person you've known since childhood and is alike cuz that's probably family" and so on. Even in space, humanity is going to be squicked out with incest.


Most important of all, if people aren't squicked out by incest then it's a fucking contrivance and not really a lewd kinky thing.


PS, both are lame, rekt savin!!!

 

[Nonesuch]

Ah yes, the age old incest debate of "well no one would find it creepy if it there wasn't any genetic issues with children!" done by people without siblings. The chance of that is already higher then otherwise for a single generation, but still within the single digits. (I tangibly believe it goes from .something to 2%, but how much of that is just ~numbers~ someone decided is a mystery.)


Incest will always be weird because of the nature of the relationship between family. This is both a social issue, by way of traditional pressure and the relationship itself as well as a physiological one, with your brain going "hey don't bone that person you've known since childhood and is alike cuz that's probably family" and so on. Even in space, humanity is going to be squicked out with incest.


Most important of all, if people aren't squicked out by incest then it's a fucking contrivance and not really a lewd kinky thing.


PS, both are lame, rekt savin!!!

If your contention is that incest is awful because of the familial connection you have with the other party, surely it follows that there's nothing wrong doing it with a half-sibling you've never met before, like Shade?

 

[Karretch]

If your contention is that incest is awful because of the familial connection you have with the other party, surely it follows that there's nothing wrong doing it with a half-sibling you've never met before, like Shade?

This. Thank you for putting words to thoughts I couldn't convey.

 

[Etis]

Ah yes, the age old incest debate of "well no one would find it creepy if it there wasn't any genetic issues with children!" done by people without siblings. The chance of that is already higher then otherwise for a single generation, but still within the single digits. (I tangibly believe it goes from .something to 2%, but how much of that is just ~numbers~ someone decided is a mystery.)


Incest will always be weird because of the nature of the relationship between family. This is both a social issue, by way of traditional pressure and the relationship itself as well as a physiological one, with your brain going "hey don't bone that person you've known since childhood and is alike cuz that's probably family" and so on. Even in space, humanity is going to be squicked out with incest.

Traditions are not forever. They change. If the action of TiTS is at least 3000 years in future, any references to traditions are invalid. It is damn abyss of time spent getting comfortable with weird traditions of other races. This would lead to one of outcomes - total isolationism and xenophoby or withering of irrational taboos. And in TiTS setting it is second one.

 

[Klaptrap]

I wouldn't say that people being grossed out by incest is an irrational taboo or tradition. It's not something that disgusts us because society tells us to -when were you taught it was bad?- it's because we're genetically predisposed to not want to suck faces with people we grew up with with.


That's all there is to it. People who blame fear of genetic problems take a symptom and confuse it with a cause. Anyone thinking that everybody will be okay with incest as soon as we fix that gene thing is very much mistaken.


Edit: That's too much of a derail. Go Shade! More Incest!

 

[Enigmatic D]

Almost forgot to choose.It's got to be Shade. I prefer her since you get more chances to interact with her unlike Kara. All Kara is to me is some stranger I ended up helping out.

 

[Bartran]

Her encounter during KaraQuest 2 is temporarily disabled when she is technically supposed to be on Uveto. I had added that check because there was a bug report or mentioning of that somewhere and I thought it would be best to fix that consistency issue. Her bar encounter should still be possible after the quest though, which was Savin's intent. This should be more obvious when Uveto is in though. Shade should only appear in KQ2 if she is canonically on Myrellion, so it is only possible to see her if she hasn't mentioned going off to Uveto.


If this is not how it is supposed to be, I can try changing it back.

Shade should still be on Myrellion in that file. That Steele married Taivra, so no probe. I don't know why it didn't trigger the bar scene. Is this something I should move to Bug Reports?

 

[SorenMageofMareth]

Ah yes, the age old incest debate of "well no one would find it creepy if it there wasn't any genetic issues with children!" done by people without siblings. The chance of that is already higher then otherwise for a single generation, but still within the single digits. (I tangibly believe it goes from .something to 2%, but how much of that is just ~numbers~ someone decided is a mystery.)


Incest will always be weird because of the nature of the relationship between family. This is both a social issue, by way of traditional pressure and the relationship itself as well as a physiological one, with your brain going "hey don't bone that person you've known since childhood and is alike cuz that's probably family" and so on. Even in space, humanity is going to be squicked out with incest.


Most important of all, if people aren't squicked out by incest then it's a fucking contrivance and not really a lewd kinky thing.


PS, both are lame, rekt savin!!!

That's like missing the entire point of what I just said.  Almost to the point of not reading even. If you mean to rebut it and not just agree with me.


Ya know considering I literally said the only reason, and way that incest taboos would hold would be due  close relationships and actual bonds promoting westermack alikes.  How you get creeped out about Victor and about your cousin. It's not because he's you sperm donor and he or she is the descendent of you sperm donors brother.  It's because he raised you and you knew him and her and you were raised with some issues with that.


Within frame of TITS this is literally the only form of Incest Taboo that's likely to be able to endure period.   This is because of the hypersexualization of everything.


We don't know Shade from Adam.  Quite literally she was born  and raised at almost twice our lifetime before us at least a solar system away as a different species.  The taboo against this sort of half sibling incest is likely to be eroded for the same reason that  Syri is so blase about the D. Aside from Friend boy dying.    The technology and progress made stigmatization increasingly difficult until it dissapears outside of fringe communities who either artificially select against it or bioloogically. (Simii) 


Sure. This won't hold for all things. Like Ausuar discriminating against Ausuar going drastic ,but that's a taboo separate from this sort of second stage incest and not antagonistic to the sexualization cultural norms. 


This is just an expansion of the idea that say second or first cousins are okay in many first world places. A Hell.  A third cousin you've met five times in your life at family reunions is closer to you than shade is. 

 

[Jacques00]

Shade should still be on Myrellion in that file. That Steele married Taivra, so no probe. I don't know why it didn't trigger the bar scene. Is this something I should move to Bug Reports?

Because Uveto has not been implemented yet, Shade should always be visible in the bar. It's during KQ2 is when Shade will appear depending on whether or not she is on Uveto. So if your character married Taivra, Shade should appear in both KQ2 and the tavern. If Taivra was subjugated or killed, Shade would not appear in KQ2 due to the probe encounter, but she will still appear in the tavern until Uveto is implemented.


I just checked to see if marrying Taivra does what it is supposed to do with Shade and it all checks out. For now, Shade should never disappear from the bar unless KQ2 is still active (if started and never completed/failed) and Shade is somehow flagged as being on Uveto...

 

[Bartran]

Because Uveto has not been implemented yet, Shade should always be visible in the bar. It's during KQ2 is when Shade will appear depending on whether or not she is on Uveto. So if your character married Taivra, Shade should appear in both KQ2 and the tavern. If Taivra was subjugated or killed, Shade would not appear in KQ2 due to the probe encounter, but she will still appear in the tavern until Uveto is implemented.


I just checked to see if marrying Taivra does what it is supposed to do with Shade and it all checks out. For now, Shade should never disappear from the bar unless KQ2 is still active (if started and never completed/failed) and Shade is somehow flagged as being on Uveto...

Is it possible we're talking about different bar scenes? I'm speaking about the scene in the Kara Quest 2 design document in which Steele talks to Shade in the bar on Myrellion after Shade lets you go without a fight. That's the only scene that is not triggering when it should. All I'm wondering is if that scene is coded, and if so, why it is not triggering. 

 

[Jacques00]

I'm speaking about the scene in the Kara Quest 2 design document in which Steele talks to Shade in the bar on Myrellion after Shade lets you go without a fight. That's the only scene that is not triggering when it should. All I'm wondering is if that scene is coded, and if so, why it is not triggering. 

Ah, I have not looked at the design document, but as far as I know, Shade does not have any extended scenes outside of her helipad scene in KQ2. I can try adding the conversation in if it is missing, but it was either overlooked or pending implementation for one reason or another.

 

[Bartran]

Ah, I have not looked at the design document, but as far as I know, Shade does not have any extended scenes outside of her helipad scene in KQ2. I can try adding the conversation in if it is missing, but it was either overlooked or pending implementation for one reason or another.

Cool. That's what I was hoping to find out. Thank you. 

 

[argenten]

Like I said, prior to KaraQuest 2 the only thing anyone who didn't play The Silence knew about Kara was "she exists".  And if you did play The Silence you know she works for a slaver, one who's an enemy of Steele's alleged buddy Kiro, and that the crew she runs with is often less than savory.  By the time of KQ2, the only one of said crew who's survived is the drug addict, my personal least favorite of the bunch.


Shade, meanwhile, is immediately friendly, fuckable, related to you, and coming soon unlocks a whole planet.  Her only flaw is that she works for one of the biggest and most outright evil organizations in the setting: technically she's a contractor, though in practice allying with Shade means allying with the Void.  And you don't even actually see her doing much of that besides hunting for Kara, who the player has no emotional connection with at the time.


Basically if it weren't for Shade being in deep with Team Galactic, it would be all but impossible not to choose her.  Kara has virtually nothing going for her unless you're angling to maybe get out of this storyline in a way that lets the principal actors all keep their heads.

This pretty much sums up why I end up going with Shade, I'll be honest and admit for awhile, I actually helped Shade capture Kara and started over to get the quest. While I don't dislike Kara and found some her scenes actually pretty cool, she didn't connect nearly as much and even after the end of KaraQuest2 she still felt more like a "gone with the dawn" romance.

 

[Kirovreporting]

Christ, this website's got some kind of an incest version of Godwin's law doesn't it?

 

[Magic Ted]

Nah, while there is a stable incest group the real one is actually murdering a character.

 

[Spikes]

My character is a gift to the universe. And there is most definitely PLENTY of me to go around. No limits here!

 

[Xeivous]

Well I just played Karaquest 2 and I feel all sorts of bad about betraying Shade's trust, and for being accomplice to Amara's maybe death.

 

[Ethereal Dragon]

Well I just played Karaquest 2 and I feel all sorts of bad about betraying Shade's trust, and for being accomplice to Amara's maybe death.

Hmm doubt she's dead or dies during the encounter, I mean she's suppose to be intractable once the faction system is added to the game. Unless one of the dev's confirms that she does indeed die.

 

[Xeivous]

Hmm doubt she's dead or dies during the encounter, I mean she's suppose to be intractable once the faction system is added to the game. Unless one of the dev's confirms that she does indeed die.

I'm doubtful she'll be happy about you being involved in knocking her off a cliff.

 

[Ethereal Dragon]

I'm doubtful she'll be happy about you being involved in knocking her off a cliff.

true... also remember the kind of armor she's wearing... that's pretty space marine-ish and I've no doubt she'd survive her little tumble over a cliff.

 

[Xeivous]

true... also remember the kind of armor she's wearing... that's pretty space marine-ish and I've no doubt she'd survive her little tumble over a cliff.

I'm doubtful I'll stick with the character anyways. I like Shade more than I like Kara.


Though I do wonder how she'll feel about you being involved with Saendra. Kinda hope she'll not give a fuck about Mirian's feud.

 

[argenten]

It's confirmed in the conversation with Shade if she lets you go in Karaquest that Amara is in the hospital. As for Amara's emotions about Steele being involved, I take the situation with the memories of the fact that Amara tends to understand most of Steele's reasons for helping Kara or at least respecting them, and Kara is the one that shot Amara off the building, so most of the animosity would be directed to her I think. Steele is hired muscle in the quest basically so while Amara might be annoyed, it'd be like hating a goon in Batman, they just don't register enough.

 

[Xeivous]

Makes sense. Still going to side with Shade from now on.


Though I'm not going to be happy if in the future I need to stay away from Saen in order to get close enough to bang Amara if she decides that the feud Saen has drummed up is worth giving a fuck about.

 

[argenten]

Makes sense. Still going to side with Shade from now on.


Though I'm not going to be happy if in the future I need to stay away from Saen in order to get close enough to bang Amara if she decides that the feud Saen has drummed up is worth giving a fuck about.

I hear you about Shade, Couch did sum it up pretty well for me, but as for Amara and Saen...I don't want to speak for the devs, but the impression I got for the BV pirates is a very feudal style setup in that each Dreadlord's affairs are primarily their own, so while they might "help out" if another Dread Lord's prey enters their territory or range, I don't think they'd take on another's grudges as their own. Add to that while Saen may have pissed of her childhood friend, she did do it in a rather piratey manner and struck out on her own, I think Amara can respect that. Dunno though, this is mostly my own brain leavings and impressions.

 

[Couch]

Do note that while I summed up how the deck is very unfairly stacked in Shade's favor, I still personally prefer to side with Kara, mainly because if I want all the characters to walk out alive she's got the better shot of that happening.  Siding with Shade immediately dooms Kara: even if you didn't help capture Kara it would doom her, since Kara has no ability whatsoever to get out of the mess she's in without Captain Steele's direct intervention.  And even that might not be enough to get her out from under Lysander Chow's thumb.  Shade can take a loss and not actually have it be all that big a deal.


Getting in ridiculously over their heads seems to be a theme with Savin's girls, actually.

 

[SorenMageofMareth]

Do note that while I summed up how the deck is very unfairly stacked in Shade's favor, I still personally prefer to side with Kara, mainly because if I want all the characters to walk out alive she's got the better shot of that happening.  Siding with Shade immediately dooms Kara: even if you didn't help capture Kara it would doom her, since Kara has no ability whatsoever to get out of the mess she's in without Captain Steele's direct intervention.  And even that might not be enough to get her out from under Lysander Chow's thumb.  Shade can take a loss and not actually have it be all that big a deal.


Getting in ridiculously over their heads seems to be a theme with Savin's girls, actually.

I just had a dark brainblast about that and the seeming idea of faux independence that derives from it. 

 

[argenten]

Do note that while I summed up how the deck is very unfairly stacked in Shade's favor, I still personally prefer to side with Kara, mainly because if I want all the characters to walk out alive she's got the better shot of that happening.  Siding with Shade immediately dooms Kara: even if you didn't help capture Kara it would doom her, since Kara has no ability whatsoever to get out of the mess she's in without Captain Steele's direct intervention.  And even that might not be enough to get her out from under Lysander Chow's thumb.  Shade can take a loss and not actually have it be all that big a deal.


Getting in ridiculously over their heads seems to be a theme with Savin's girls, actually.

Another good point, and I'll admit I did restart my game so I could help Kara where needed. It's a fine balancing act to be sure.

 

[Ethereal Dragon]

Do note that while I summed up how the deck is very unfairly stacked in Shade's favor, I still personally prefer to side with Kara, mainly because if I want all the characters to walk out alive she's got the better shot of that happening.  Siding with Shade immediately dooms Kara: even if you didn't help capture Kara it would doom her, since Kara has no ability whatsoever to get out of the mess she's in without Captain Steele's direct intervention.  And even that might not be enough to get her out from under Lysander Chow's thumb.  Shade can take a loss and not actually have it be all that big a deal.


Getting in ridiculously over their heads seems to be a theme with Savin's girls, actually.

and this is why I said I can't decide... lol take the inbetween root!