Your gripes with CoC II
- Thread starter Narmlet
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when you say leave more of an impact on so many places, what exactly are you referring to? Because for the life of me I can't think any place you could have a bigger impact on then the den. You can return a powerful, political leader to them which could mean more influence back in their own empire. you can knock up one of the twin priestesses solidifying the other as Komari's successor. You can make Rindo a concubine to take a big target off her back and ensure she won't marry anyone else for a while. And you can piss a lot of people off by becoming Keros' champion. While the effects of these choices are not immediate they will have pretty big ramifications for the future
Comparatively you install Ethryn as the new reagent of the WC who in turn tries to mend the rift between them and the druids and make you a baron with their own fort expanding WC territory. this I consider a close second in terms of the player directly impacting a place. third would be Hawkthorne as you can currently fix Garth's busted family and build a Mallachite temple. The rest of the places you can "impact" don't really change at all over the course of the game. Because you're not really changing anything so much as hitting undo on all the changes made by villains unless you go and solidify those changes in which case you don't impact hardly anything.
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Gonna add one of my reasons for disliking kitsune content:
My problem with Den/kitsune is that it feels like a DLC area with it's own plot, which is barely connected to main world/ plot.
Comparatively Etheryn/Njorhaalt is directly linked to main plot. From rescuing Ryn to dethroning her sister to chasing Kas to Kor'minos(spelling?). While den barely acknowledges anything outside of it.
There's an awful lot of theoretical and "At some point after the game" going on there.
I mean, while I'm imagining I'd just go big and have my character ascend to god hood.
I mean, while I'm imagining I'd just go big and have my character ascend to god hood.
So it looks you didn't really pay attention to what I said, and don't really care either so I'll just end conversation here.
This! This is the actual problem with the kitsune content and with Kiyoko to an extent. All of it feels so very isolated, partly by design as the den is meant to be closed off from outsiders. But the way it's closed off makes it so disconnected from the rest world making it seem like nothing that happens in there affects anything outside and vice versa. In Kiyoko's case, while she acknowledges NPC's in certain events any indication that she ever interacts with the other companions is entirely second hand in a tone that makes her seem nice but unapproachable. That's one of the few things I deeply dislike about her character. I want her to interact with the others and I want to see it happpen.
Gave as much attention as you did mine. Since you're whole "This is the REAL problem" was already said. By me and several others.
Despite you guys making it clear that I'm not wanted like two years ago, I still hold hope and check up on this game from time to time, to see if I can scavenge anything that appeals to me between the endless deluge of BigTiddyWaifus, Wapanese Catgirls, and futa cock. usually with not much success. The fact that you somehow managed to have EVEN LESS major male characters than before is almost impressive! and to add insult to injury, you didn't just sideline one of the three male companions, you let us staple tits on him as he went, really showing how good of a multitasker you are: shitting on the people who liked him while still sucking the dicks of those who didn't. now that's dedication to the bit. Made even funnier because when I brought up the fact that Garret, one of the few masculine male characters with a good bit of writing invested in them, locked out a massive portion of the people who would actually be interested in him for no fucking reason, you guys were like:
It's not that I hate male characters having female transformations (although Wynne's really should have been heavier on the corruption aspect) or most of the content being female-centric, but can you not see how this feels like a massive FU?
The people here seem less rude and condescending than they were to me about complaints of this type, which might just be because there's too many to dogpile now, in which case: I told you so.
But when it comes to Berry having his identity changed in a way directly opposed to the impetus of his character after his writer has left the team, it's fine! gotta give the exclusive women likers, who might have, for some reason, sat through a male character's quest, TWO toys for every ONE the men likers get/lose, like a spoiled child on somebody else's birthday. Now I don't know or care what went down with Berwyn's writer but rewriting his character to do what you like/ what's popular proves the whole ~artistic intent~ argument was total bullshit.
It's not that I hate male characters having female transformations (although Wynne's really should have been heavier on the corruption aspect) or most of the content being female-centric, but can you not see how this feels like a massive FU?
The people here seem less rude and condescending than they were to me about complaints of this type, which might just be because there's too many to dogpile now, in which case: I told you so.
Setting aside the fact that you're resurrecting an argument from a year and a half ago to piss and moan (and an argument that you already knew wasn't exactly fresh when you first showed up), I would say the exact same things now that I did then: Tobs envisions Garret a certain way so the fact that his sex content is gated behind 'Champs with a vagina' is just the way it is. I'm sorry if the better part of two years later you're still surprised that the majority of staff and community writers (and the player base) aren't interested in M/M content, but that's just kinda the way it is.
And since you're selectively quoting from old posts, let me do likewise:
And since you're selectively quoting from old posts, let me do likewise:
I note that in the eighteen or so months that you have spent doing whatever between last posting here and now, you haven't 'done it for us' in terms of writing a toggle to make all the ladies with penises into males, despite it being so easy...
Porn games are always going to be about what tickles the fancy of the people programming it, and in the case of this game, the people contributing their smut to it. Not everything in this game appeals to me, but I find more than enough that interests me that I keep playing. If that was not the case, I would simply move on and try another game.
I humbly suggest you do the same, as it is clear that CoC2 is not working for you.
A year and a half and nothing has changed, despite it being an argument people have been making for a long time, now more than ever. I'm bringing it up because it's relevant.
"that's just the way it is" isn't an argument. I've already been over how there's seemingly no problem with secondary writers changing characters to suit people into women, why can't they do so for people into men? it's less work.
v
I didn't say I could make the toggle, I said I could make the adjustments to the text to change the genders which
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I did. I also did some that I didn't post. also note that I said I could. which is important because...
why would I do a bunch of free work when I'm fairly certain they're not going to include anything I make because "It's not what the writer envisioned" and "the staff aren't interested in M/M"? like I wouldn't mind doing alternate scenes but to what end? if it's not even going to be considered then I'd rather just write for myself.
Now, I understand the impetus to get upset over characters that mean a lot to you. I do want to point out, though, that B's signature is designing NPCs that have a lot of variables attached, and thus makes sense outside the narrative that they would make Berwyn's gender changeable. I don't think it was intended to be a middle finger to MLM/Straight fans, it is just a recurrent design choice by B. That isn't to invalidate your feelings, of course, but I wanted to give some insight into the reasoning behind the decision.
I believe that there are some more male NPCs in the works, but from what I've gathered, dominant male NPCs are not popular. This has been pretty consistent. I think some writers are hesitant to create major maledom NPCs because of this. And yes, personal tastes do matter when it comes to creating smut, but I don't think it's as important as some might think and the tolerance for the unfamiliar wildly varies by writer.
Personally, I don't have much of a dog in this fight because I'm a so-called woman liker. But I don't like it when people's wishes for an early access game go unnoticed, and your complaints aren't that uncommon, mostly ignored. I think some writers are accepting commissions, and if you have the means, you should look into that.
I really respect the dedication to be like "I've come back after two years to still be wrong about something"
It has been like that not for almost two years. It has been like that since 2011 at the very least (as I am unsure how it was back when Nimin was still alive):
If you wrote anything and it was rejected for whichever reason, at least you'd know what (not) to do for another project. Alternatively, and as Catmint said, you could always commission a writer. I have a feel no one would cry bloody murder about stepping on anyone's toes if any minor males got scenes of their own. I'm thinking about the avanai rider, the male jotunn, Jin-Jin, Elaril, Dale...
"Want it? Write it. Be the change you want to see."
If you wrote anything and it was rejected for whichever reason, at least you'd know what (not) to do for another project. Alternatively, and as Catmint said, you could always commission a writer. I have a feel no one would cry bloody murder about stepping on anyone's toes if any minor males got scenes of their own. I'm thinking about the avanai rider, the male jotunn, Jin-Jin, Elaril, Dale...
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I apologise if this is considered off topic for this thread. But may I ask what on earth the acronym MLM means?
I have seen it used multiple times since the changes to Berwyn happened. I have never been good with working out acronyms. Is is just a fancy way of saying M/M?
For those who might make the suggestion. I did try looking it up on ‘The Internets’, and all I got was some company names and Multi-Level Marketing. And I doubt either of those would apply here.
I have seen it used multiple times since the changes to Berwyn happened. I have never been good with working out acronyms. Is is just a fancy way of saying M/M?
For those who might make the suggestion. I did try looking it up on ‘The Internets’, and all I got was some company names and Multi-Level Marketing. And I doubt either of those would apply here.
Ah, so it was just a fancy M/M then. Alright. That seems unnecessary to me, but it makes sense.
Thank you.
Pretty much the majority of people here complained about Berwyn getting removed from the companion roster. A ton of people hated it, and did perceive it as his fans getting shafted. I also really dislike the change, but, due to how the game is set up, it was necessary.
Berwyn is an exception because he was a companion. Companions are required to have constant support, and he had a questline that was left dangling, so the fact that his original writer was gone meant that either some other writer was going to be required to take him up and fully support him, or that he had to be removed from being a companion. I believed that it would be the full support, but it seems to have been the latter. They didn't want to force someone to write two companions, and it seems that nobody who was eligible for having a companion wanted to take him as one, so, he was removed from the companions.
Of course, there is the thing about him getting the option to become female was not really necessary. That, however, came about because he effectively had a different writer. B now is Berwyn's writer, and as such, this is his artistic intent instead. The change absolutely upset Hugs, and I don't like that, but Berwyn is B's now, as a result of him requiring a transfer of ownership due to his formerly being a companion. I dislike the loss of his companion status, and it feels weird that he was given the option to turn female along with that, but he's not proof that there's "no problem with secondary writers changing characters to suit people." He was an unfinished canvas, given to somebody else to work on, and so he became that person's character.
Except that the core writing team has not changed in that span of time (nor will it in the next eighteen months) so the point that was raised the last time you complained about it still holds: The main writers are not interested in catering specifically to M/M content, so they don't write it. Likewise there have been very few community writers interested in catering specifically to that interest, so it doesn't get much compared to the majority of scenes in the game. The staff and community in general prefer female characters to male, hence the ratio being skewed heavily in that favor and the majority of characters are pan so as to appeal to the widest possible audience.
If you want more of that stuff, the door for submissions is and has always been open; it's how stuff that the main staff isn't interested in writing or doesn't have time to write gets into the game in the first place. Case in point: Nobody on the main team was going to write a cuntboy, but Liulfr got into the game because someone in the community stepped up. Be the change you want to see in the world, and all that.
Except that as as Savin himself pointed out to you, it is not nearly as little work as you seem to think. Which is why he suggested that you try and hand-edit just one of Evergreen's scenes to make her a daddydom and see how much work that takes to get something that looks good, even without factoring in what it would need to look like on the coding side, as an illustrative example. I note that you haven't done that either.
Oh, and that same post also does away with your 'That's not an argument!' argument because yes, moral and/or creative offense is a thing when you're trying to write for somebody else's character. Tobs wrote Garret one way, he's not going to add content for him that goes against his vision just because a couple of loud people on the internet complain that their vagina-less Champs can't get doggy-dicked down by him. What precisely did you really expect to change here?
Kek, now you want me to try my hand at rewriting mommy Evergreen into a daddy evergreen. For I already did something similar for Brint where I rewrote some of Brienne scenes for hypothetical scenario where the armor only went half way.
And no, it was not for mod or anything like that. Just something that I wanted to try out to see if the personality of Brienne could work on someone with Brints build. It was fun and surprising hot.
And no, it was not for mod or anything like that. Just something that I wanted to try out to see if the personality of Brienne could work on someone with Brints build. It was fun and surprising hot.
Ah, so it was just a fancy M/M then. Alright. That seems unnecessary to me, but it makes sense.
Thank you.
Heh. It is mostly used in certain parts of the LGBTQ+ community and doesn't necessarily have a slash meaning to it; it's just a broader term to encompass all types of love, not just sex. I don't know about other people, but I prefer it because it refers to a community of people who love men, instead of just loving sex with men, though I can see how that seems unnecessary when it comes to smut. My autistic brain just thinks it's more appropriate to the conversation at hand.
Also, I am part of the WLW (Women Loving Women) // Sapphic community, so terms like MLM/WLW get thrown around a lot more on that side of the 'net. It's unfortunate that the acronym MLM is associated with covert pyramid schemes, but I digress.
I would love to write niche content for this game if there's enough of an audience for such. I already have several writing projects on the backburner, but SavCo is pretty generous to their content creators I have to say. We'll see.
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while I am more subby than dominant, subby eager devoted Brint does sound really appealing
I've been playing these games for years, I was here before you and I'll be here after you're gone, dormant beneath the earth, lurking in teh forums, waiting to cause another argument every two years.
considered writing 'xlw' to avoid describing every variation of a person attracted to a boob but it sounds like a file extension.
yeah, it's 'men loving men' or 'men who love men'. It's used because not every dude into dudes is ONLY into dudes, y'know dude?
or he could be left unfinished, removed from the game entirely, or remade into a different character. People would still be upset but they'd probably be more understanding if it was a case of "The writer left him unfinished so we can't use him anymore". Choosing to keep the character but removing a lot of their content and drastically altering their story and behavior to fit a wider audience is what made people mad.
the fact that his lead writer can be exchanged against the will of the original writer proves that the characters (or at least this version of them) are considered as not belonging to the original writer but to the game itself, with anything beyond that just being dibs.
which is why allowing people to create alternate versions of existing characters/scenes would mean they don't have to write M content (straight women exist still)
except when they're not for the people already lacking a lot of content ig.
ignoring what you're literally quoting me saying isn't an argument either. I'm saying it's hypocritical to claim "moral and/or creative offense" when the same thing was done to Berwyn.
I had assumed that wasn't an actual challenge, but more of a "that would take too much time"
I'm guessing you didn't read the edit I made for Garret or you would have found something to complain about but this time it only took like an extra ten minutes, I honestly spent more time writing this. This is pointless anyway since I never said that I wanted EVERY character in the game to have an alternate version, just some of the easier-to-edit ones to make it feel a little less one-sided.
Yeah you're right, rewriting Oxana from a woman to a man is seamless and this is totally feasible to do to every scene in the game.
I have met few people so arrogant and steadfast in their wrongness. Congratulations.
Yes, he could but: For unfinished, that's a no-go. That's basically the antithesis of what is intended for the companions. If one of them just stops getting updates or content and altogether doesn't further participate in the game, and the game is not essentially finished, then that's an issue, and they won't accept it sticking around. For removed entirely, they could do that, but it's also something they clearly don't want to do, given that they basically set up some legal safeguards to make explicitly clear to the writers that they forfeit the right to demand that the characters or works be withdrawn, and frankly, I think people would be way more upset if Berwyn was made entirely unaccessible, rather than mutated like this. As for remade into a different character, that's essentially what's happened, they just didn't change the name. I do think that a namechange would probably have been a good choice, but what's happened already pretty much fits the bill for a remaking, aside from the same name.
Well, that is literally what writers have to agree to when making a content submission. As Savin states there, he'd rather not have to do these things against the writer's will, but he has all rights to do so.
The former would go against the entire purpose of companion characters and just highlight what a content dead-end he was and the last would have been so much more work than just ending his plotline and demoting him that it isn't even funny, especially considering that the stated reason for not continuing to support him is because of how much work that would have been.
Well, yeah, this is literally part of the document you're required to sign before submitting content, and it's clearly mentioned in the thread that you're expected to read in advance of submitting so this isn't news and shouldn't be a surprise. Hugs left, therefore whatever he wanted became irrelevant because it became Savin's call to make.
And the above was directly prompted by issues during the development of CoC1 where Fenoxo didn't have a condition like that and so lots and lots of characters were left unfinished and couldn't be removed or changed without causing a kerfuffle.
Again, Berwyn's original author left and he didn't just leave a bunch of bare-bones characters lying around (look at one-note wonders like Elfboi and Frost Pupper) but a companion. Something had to be done.
I didn't suggest Evergreen specifically, they chose someone who they thought would be difficult to edit around and I did it. I also listed why I kept lactation stuff in while implying it would be easy to remove, which it is.
again, not an argument. also, It's not arrogance when you are right and I always am.
are they really going to do this every time a quest isn't completed?
wow
ok, so it is just dibs then.
maybe but more so with his writer
if that was what remaking a character was, the term "out of character" would not exist. If a character looks the same, has the same name, and appears in the same story... it's probably the same character.
So he did but he won't.
more than all the work lost removing a fully coded companion? literally, all you'd have to do is change his name and you could do whatever you wanted. maybe more people would be interested in writing for the character if they didn't have to pretend to follow his character arc before going in their own direction anyway.
It sounds like it was always Savin's call to make, he was just letting him have it for a while.
maybe it would cause internet drama but he definitely could have removed them, right? maybe he couldn't change them but it's his game, he could take stuff out if he wanted to. Savin, however, CAN allow things to be changed, but he still won't, so what's the point of having the ability to? all the 'condition' has done is let you keep the name of a character you mostly gutted anyway.
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