big doubt, I think I've seen the excuse be "she can't be outside everyone hates kitsune" before but I can be misremembering
Your gripes with CoC II
- Thread starter Narmlet
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I feel like Kiyoko is the one of the two that can be described as not fitting the monocle of companion. Sure, Quin has about as much content as Berwyn, even after his two recent updates, and, sure, Kiyoko had basically every NPC beat in terms of written content. But all of it is concentrated in one plac secluded from the rest of the game. Barely any interactions with outside world or with the companions. But I think that in some ways helps her popularity, in a weird way, since it keeps her pure from all the pitfalls that comes from being a companion.
And then there is Atugia, suffocating under her own insignificant.
And then there is Atugia, suffocating under her own insignificant.
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Think I made a post here complaining about how Kiyoku doesn't exist outside the den before, I'd love to take her along adventuring but it feels like a waste of a slot where other characters might actually have something to do/say.
I'm sure that's been said before but I'm starting to feel slightly insane, like the games gaslighting me with the kitsune. Isn't the whole damn point of Keros champion (Keros hopes the same for non-kitsune champs too come to think of it) to shake things up? get the kitsune out and interacting with others?
And all the other content outside of talking to their god is like "Nope sorry we don't leave the den. And also we've got all these traditions we refuse to change"
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the thing with that is, there is some development for kitsune apparently! its just locked behind knocking up kiyoko and doing kinu's quest, checking the wiki at least Mai has things to say about that quest and its the only mention of kitsune actually being acknowledged as hated unlike other npcs being pretty passive about it!
Yeah, but all that develpment is also only really related to Kinu since the champion gets pushed to the sidelines in favour of telling her story. So even then, there is no development from champions actions, unless you consider champion possessing a dick one.
Oh I've done those it still feels like the den is an expansion pack written after the main game has been tied up for months if that makes sense. Knowing how that quest line is likely to wrap up and my view doesn't change.
(The writers were a lot more open about the plot years ago and people love to quote tweet them to shut down requests in the request thread...so I got spoiled)
(The writers were a lot more open about the plot years ago and people love to quote tweet them to shut down requests in the request thread...so I got spoiled)
Im so confused about Aileh right now... she just came out of nowhere with the romance stuff. I was hoping for her to become a companion or that good relationship with her will have an effect on the main plot, and/or open up a side quest. Okay so there is a friendzone button, what is my problem? it feels pointless to click it, only for the sake of missing some content (probably).
Coming at it from a RP perspective: The way she propositioned made it feel like kissing her is tying our fates together so to speak. That is a 'no thanks' at this point of the story because I cant feel loyal to a million different characters, and things are 'ongoing' with Kas and it remains to be seen what these characters are like if push comes to shove.
Coming at it from a RP perspective: The way she propositioned made it feel like kissing her is tying our fates together so to speak. That is a 'no thanks' at this point of the story because I cant feel loyal to a million different characters, and things are 'ongoing' with Kas and it remains to be seen what these characters are like if push comes to shove.
there will never be new companions anywhere so never expect that the roster has already been picked and the only one yet to be implemented is Viviane, all npc quests are either to romance or bone as it is a porn game
Kiyoko does have unique content with other quests. The two off the top of my head are Winter Wolf with the Lureling and Grave of Saints with the Faceless Blade. So she's not as disconnected from the world or other characters as much as people seem to think.
She has plenty of companion barks, interactions, and general changes to the game text all over the place, thanks to the efforts from all the writers. From helping out at Nottia's farm, to the Winter Ball, to visiting Serena's class at the Lyceum, to the mage-ship, etc, etc. The content is there.
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I'll say she's successfully written, when she's written to react to wherever she is with total apathy and disdain. And that that's the problem.
Like, fine. If the only times you pipe up are to say you'd rather be home then stay home.
Like, fine. If the only times you pipe up are to say you'd rather be home then stay home.
In defence of apathy and disdain. Kiyoko being the only companion to sit inside and drink tea rather than help you farm is straight up hilarious. And she's one of the better lore companions as well, particularly during Winter Wolf and with Nihara.
And so the goalposts move: instead of having no content, said content is now one-note.
False and misleading to say that; Joey and Zagzig have already pointed out a couple of cases where this is untrue. Other instances include the mage-ship, or the uncorrupted aftermath of the centaur camp where she helps with the centaur kids, the minotaur guards bad end, etc, etc. While there is content where she does indeed behave with some measure of apathy/disdain such as the festivus ball and the lyceum visit, saying that it's all or even most of external interactions is hyperbolic. While companions have facets of their personality that can appear front and center, thanks to the efforts of all community and staff writers their content is actually quite varied.
I should not be surprised about sweeping statements made about game content ever since ye olde times of "the game is full of furry futas", but that's the nature of perceptions and emotions; that's why the "canon vs. fanon" mini-comics exist.
If you're looking for a debate team style break down of all her written content you're in the wrong place, not that it would take long outside the den. When you have to brag about things like combat barks and "kiyoku takes up an oar" during mage ship as great companion content I think even you know somethings up.
We were also discussing the den itself, it's just disappointing that when this game ends at this rate the den is gonna be largely the same and so is Kiyoku as when it started, except more of it's members have now been banged. You leave more of an impact on so many places and especially their people whose patron god didn't show up and tell you to shake things up in, that seems odd. I'd usually chalk a lot of this up to "Well it's not done yet" but the overwhelming response from more dedicated fans, who often have quotes on hand from devs/writers is "Lower your expectations for anything more in scope"
I'm actually surprised we havn't gotten a few already.
We were also discussing the den itself, it's just disappointing that when this game ends at this rate the den is gonna be largely the same and so is Kiyoku as when it started, except more of it's members have now been banged. You leave more of an impact on so many places and especially their people whose patron god didn't show up and tell you to shake things up in, that seems odd. I'd usually chalk a lot of this up to "Well it's not done yet" but the overwhelming response from more dedicated fans, who often have quotes on hand from devs/writers is "Lower your expectations for anything more in scope"
I'm actually surprised we havn't gotten a few already.
when you say leave more of an impact on so many places, what exactly are you referring to? Because for the life of me I can't think any place you could have a bigger impact on then the den. You can return a powerful, political leader to them which could mean more influence back in their own empire. you can knock up one of the twin priestesses solidifying the other as Komari's successor. You can make Rindo a concubine to take a big target off her back and ensure she won't marry anyone else for a while. And you can piss a lot of people off by becoming Keros' champion. While the effects of these choices are not immediate they will have pretty big ramifications for the future
Comparatively you install Ethryn as the new reagent of the WC who in turn tries to mend the rift between them and the druids and make you a baron with their own fort expanding WC territory. this I consider a close second in terms of the player directly impacting a place. third would be Hawkthorne as you can currently fix Garth's busted family and build a Mallachite temple. The rest of the places you can "impact" don't really change at all over the course of the game. Because you're not really changing anything so much as hitting undo on all the changes made by villains unless you go and solidify those changes in which case you don't impact hardly anything.
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Gonna add one of my reasons for disliking kitsune content:
My problem with Den/kitsune is that it feels like a DLC area with it's own plot, which is barely connected to main world/ plot.
Comparatively Etheryn/Njorhaalt is directly linked to main plot. From rescuing Ryn to dethroning her sister to chasing Kas to Kor'minos(spelling?). While den barely acknowledges anything outside of it.
There's an awful lot of theoretical and "At some point after the game" going on there.
I mean, while I'm imagining I'd just go big and have my character ascend to god hood.
I mean, while I'm imagining I'd just go big and have my character ascend to god hood.
So it looks you didn't really pay attention to what I said, and don't really care either so I'll just end conversation here.
This! This is the actual problem with the kitsune content and with Kiyoko to an extent. All of it feels so very isolated, partly by design as the den is meant to be closed off from outsiders. But the way it's closed off makes it so disconnected from the rest world making it seem like nothing that happens in there affects anything outside and vice versa. In Kiyoko's case, while she acknowledges NPC's in certain events any indication that she ever interacts with the other companions is entirely second hand in a tone that makes her seem nice but unapproachable. That's one of the few things I deeply dislike about her character. I want her to interact with the others and I want to see it happpen.
Gave as much attention as you did mine. Since you're whole "This is the REAL problem" was already said. By me and several others.
Despite you guys making it clear that I'm not wanted like two years ago, I still hold hope and check up on this game from time to time, to see if I can scavenge anything that appeals to me between the endless deluge of BigTiddyWaifus, Wapanese Catgirls, and futa cock. usually with not much success. The fact that you somehow managed to have EVEN LESS major male characters than before is almost impressive! and to add insult to injury, you didn't just sideline one of the three male companions, you let us staple tits on him as he went, really showing how good of a multitasker you are: shitting on the people who liked him while still sucking the dicks of those who didn't. now that's dedication to the bit. Made even funnier because when I brought up the fact that Garret, one of the few masculine male characters with a good bit of writing invested in them, locked out a massive portion of the people who would actually be interested in him for no fucking reason, you guys were like:
It's not that I hate male characters having female transformations (although Wynne's really should have been heavier on the corruption aspect) or most of the content being female-centric, but can you not see how this feels like a massive FU?
The people here seem less rude and condescending than they were to me about complaints of this type, which might just be because there's too many to dogpile now, in which case: I told you so.
But when it comes to Berry having his identity changed in a way directly opposed to the impetus of his character after his writer has left the team, it's fine! gotta give the exclusive women likers, who might have, for some reason, sat through a male character's quest, TWO toys for every ONE the men likers get/lose, like a spoiled child on somebody else's birthday. Now I don't know or care what went down with Berwyn's writer but rewriting his character to do what you like/ what's popular proves the whole ~artistic intent~ argument was total bullshit.
It's not that I hate male characters having female transformations (although Wynne's really should have been heavier on the corruption aspect) or most of the content being female-centric, but can you not see how this feels like a massive FU?
The people here seem less rude and condescending than they were to me about complaints of this type, which might just be because there's too many to dogpile now, in which case: I told you so.
Setting aside the fact that you're resurrecting an argument from a year and a half ago to piss and moan (and an argument that you already knew wasn't exactly fresh when you first showed up), I would say the exact same things now that I did then: Tobs envisions Garret a certain way so the fact that his sex content is gated behind 'Champs with a vagina' is just the way it is. I'm sorry if the better part of two years later you're still surprised that the majority of staff and community writers (and the player base) aren't interested in M/M content, but that's just kinda the way it is.
And since you're selectively quoting from old posts, let me do likewise:
And since you're selectively quoting from old posts, let me do likewise:
I note that in the eighteen or so months that you have spent doing whatever between last posting here and now, you haven't 'done it for us' in terms of writing a toggle to make all the ladies with penises into males, despite it being so easy...
Porn games are always going to be about what tickles the fancy of the people programming it, and in the case of this game, the people contributing their smut to it. Not everything in this game appeals to me, but I find more than enough that interests me that I keep playing. If that was not the case, I would simply move on and try another game.
I humbly suggest you do the same, as it is clear that CoC2 is not working for you.
A year and a half and nothing has changed, despite it being an argument people have been making for a long time, now more than ever. I'm bringing it up because it's relevant.
"that's just the way it is" isn't an argument. I've already been over how there's seemingly no problem with secondary writers changing characters to suit people into women, why can't they do so for people into men? it's less work.
v
I didn't say I could make the toggle, I said I could make the adjustments to the text to change the genders which
v
I did. I also did some that I didn't post. also note that I said I could. which is important because...
why would I do a bunch of free work when I'm fairly certain they're not going to include anything I make because "It's not what the writer envisioned" and "the staff aren't interested in M/M"? like I wouldn't mind doing alternate scenes but to what end? if it's not even going to be considered then I'd rather just write for myself.
Now, I understand the impetus to get upset over characters that mean a lot to you. I do want to point out, though, that B's signature is designing NPCs that have a lot of variables attached, and thus makes sense outside the narrative that they would make Berwyn's gender changeable. I don't think it was intended to be a middle finger to MLM/Straight fans, it is just a recurrent design choice by B. That isn't to invalidate your feelings, of course, but I wanted to give some insight into the reasoning behind the decision.
I believe that there are some more male NPCs in the works, but from what I've gathered, dominant male NPCs are not popular. This has been pretty consistent. I think some writers are hesitant to create major maledom NPCs because of this. And yes, personal tastes do matter when it comes to creating smut, but I don't think it's as important as some might think and the tolerance for the unfamiliar wildly varies by writer.
Personally, I don't have much of a dog in this fight because I'm a so-called woman liker. But I don't like it when people's wishes for an early access game go unnoticed, and your complaints aren't that uncommon, mostly ignored. I think some writers are accepting commissions, and if you have the means, you should look into that.
I really respect the dedication to be like "I've come back after two years to still be wrong about something"
It has been like that not for almost two years. It has been like that since 2011 at the very least (as I am unsure how it was back when Nimin was still alive):
If you wrote anything and it was rejected for whichever reason, at least you'd know what (not) to do for another project. Alternatively, and as Catmint said, you could always commission a writer. I have a feel no one would cry bloody murder about stepping on anyone's toes if any minor males got scenes of their own. I'm thinking about the avanai rider, the male jotunn, Jin-Jin, Elaril, Dale...
"Want it? Write it. Be the change you want to see."
If you wrote anything and it was rejected for whichever reason, at least you'd know what (not) to do for another project. Alternatively, and as Catmint said, you could always commission a writer. I have a feel no one would cry bloody murder about stepping on anyone's toes if any minor males got scenes of their own. I'm thinking about the avanai rider, the male jotunn, Jin-Jin, Elaril, Dale...
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