I don't know about the one on Canadia station because she has now sex scenes, but Nevrie is on suppressents for her cum and tells you as much when you give her a blowjob for a discount on the stuff she sells.
Myrellion Content Discussion (GENERAL)
- Thread starter Savin
- Start date
They are two jingoist societies inspired from late Victorian age powers fighting a great war for dominance over the whole planet, they are also ants and takes each other as slaves and are hellbent on proving one to be superior and the sole hive. Even if this just means taking it over. You're all putting way to much thought into this and pulling straws out from the ether.
I miss when this game was a aimless adventure game that was needlessly grimdark every other turn.
I miss when this game was a aimless adventure game that was needlessly grimdark every other turn.
Yeah, the thing about the Federation is that you earn your power, versus a random genetic lottery deciding who gets to be in charge.
It's also worth noting that anybody can apply for service, and its guarantee of citizenship, in the Federation; male or female, red myr or otherwise. Theoretically even a gold myr who lives in the Federation could apply, and we see that nyrea actively do serve in the military. Renvra's a halfbreed, but her pureblood nyrean mother is an instructor at a military academy. Even those unsuited to combat duty can apply and be given some kind of job: male nyrea and fertile females hold rear-echelon officer positions or support roles, like surgeons, engineers, drivers, or secretaries. They'll give you a job cleaning if you can't do anything else.
The only difference is the right to vote and to hold public office. Non-citizens otherwise have the same rights to legal representation, property ownership, childrearing, and life/liberty/pursuit of happiness that a citizen does.
Im aware that Nevrie tells you that she's on suppressants. I was just musing if a majority of the species follows suit.
What I meant by asking that question was to highlight how a similar race of Aliens have drug like fluids and have sex with the other denizens of the Universe. The thing about the Dzaan though is that they are apart of the UGC even though they have this narcotic cum, that we know REALLY fucks with your body/head.
This point is why I dont take the whole Venom thing as serious as some other people here. Im not saying it isnt a bad problem, just that it's blown a few notches over what it should be viewed as. If the Dzaan were allowed to join the UGC despite their drug cum, then i dont see why the Reds joining the UGC would be a problem. You could say that it is easier for the Venom to be used, but thats only assuming that the UGC dont do anything about it. In fact Nevrie is probably a good example of how the UGC handle Dzaan after they joined. But we only have 3 Dzaan in the game so we dont really have a clear picture of what they do with the race in general.
And again, yes. The drug addicted slave thing is completely atrocious, no way around that. But, from what we can assume about the Universe's past, when the UGC found the Dzaan the same problem they had at that time is probably like the one we have here. Who's to say there isnt a solution to be had here?
You can literally debate this point with Lessau about the Bothrioc joining the UGC during AraQuest, fwiw.
*gasp*
That's a bit of overkill... and would the remaining golds see that as victory?
That's a bit of overkill... and would the remaining golds see that as victory?
I mean, those Golds don't like the other Golds much, so....
Well, probably not still.
I don't see why the UGC would give a damn. They don't care about the dzaan; somebody capitalized on some of the spaceborne dzaan not wanting to addict their loves without consent, as Nevrie does. Nobody's making dzaan take meds to suppress addictive bodily fluids, and I doubt they would force the reds to. I do think that somebody would absolutely capitalize on them by making a venom suppressant. Actually, that sounds like a thing I should probably write!
*gasp*
That's a bit of overkill... and would the remaining golds see that as victory?
They most certainly wouldn't, though if the depression doesn't drive them to the brink, at least they have a queen from which to rebuild their people with.
The reds already have a venom suppressant according to the doctor lady.
No, both forms of government are abysmal. They should both be done away with completely. They both suck ass. And not in the good way.
It's not just Leive and Sellara, trench wives are all over the place. Everyone's got one. And talking with the doctor chick shows abuse (that is abuse BEYOND turning them into sex slaves) is not uncommon.
Now, MAYBE it's only like that HERE, but there is no evidence to suggest that. If you want to claim that their society funtions diferently than the rest just in that one city for some odd reason you need evidence to support it or it means nothing.
What do you mean? I never said it was impossible for the reds and golds to live happily together. I don't know what you think that couple proves. I said they own a lot of sex slaves. And they do. You can't walk two feet through the city without bumping into them. Almost every red you talk to has them. They are all over the place.
No, a revolt of all the trench wives and all the prisoners would be a huge problem to deal with. Even if they put it down in the end there would be a lot of trouble doing it. They don't want to deal with that.
Nope, Leive confirms it. If they hadn't shown up they would have blown up the city and Leive says it would have been pretty bad.
This is such a bullshit argument. It's basically "I know the reds suck, but you should support them because MAYBE they only suck HERE and not everywhere else! You know MAYBE. It's not IMPOSSIBLE.
I'll grant you it's not impossible, but I see no reason to believe it. When I see some evidence, I'll consider it.
I never said it's impossible for reds and golds to live together. Why are you acting like I did?
Because it's legal and they are everywhere. All the reds you talk to have them just about. You can't walk two feet without bumping into trench wives. They are all over the place. It's not an isolated thing.
What? I never said anything about offworlders. Who gives a shit what they think?
I don't care if they stay slaves or not. The fact that they were slaves AT ALL is the evil. I have been arguing this point under the assumption that they would be freed when the war was over. If they are actually thinking of keeping them as slaves past that that would just make them EVEN MORE evil than they are now. Also, drug addiction doesn't just go away. Have fun, you're free now, hope your drug addiction is manageable.
She also says that a reworking of the red society is another option in a different conversation tree.
Killing all the golds is not as easy as you say. They have cities full of them that would fight back if they tried killing them all. It's easier to take them over and try and not provoke them.
Not what I meant. One city is not the same as a country. The golds where not in the position the Japanese were.
War is not an excuse. You cannot just excuse any and all evil actions by saying "war". Some action cross the line. Like sex slavery. Imagine if the US brought back a bunch of sex slaves from the Middle East. "But war!" is not a valid excuse.
Now that the aliens are here and Steele is here bombing a city vs bombing all reds are no longer the only two options for a pro gold victory. Maybe you might have a point if literally the only two options for winning the war were bombing one city or bombing all cities but that's not the case anymore. Now we can look more toward who deserves to win the war more, instead of just which option means less deaths. And the reds don't deserve to win the war. They deserve MUCH MUCH worse than just loosing it, but I'll settle for that.
Racism was never one of the evils I listed, so I don't know what pointing out that they aren't racist proves.
Once again Leive was a gold prisoner. They keep them. She also didn't get chemicals tested on her. Maybe that happens, and that should be shut down and those responsible punished.
There is no reason a gold victory is only obtainable through genocide. There are TONS of possible solutions for a gold victory. Look through this thread to find some. Especially now that Steele and the aliens are involved.
Reds are physiologically superior to golds (established fact), and they are the ones holding the guns. If they wanted to ethnic cleanse the Golds from captured cities, they would realistically be capable of liquidating 95% of the Gold Myr population while suffering less than 30% casualties.
The fact that golds put red PoWs in Nazi-esque concentration camps, interrogate them and test chemical weapons on them AT ALL is just as evil.
bothric embassy i think, you need to be addicted to them...thinking about it i dont even think its out yet its still being written
So how does Lessau tie into it? Does the topic come up once you get all well and bred by the quaddomme?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/...QXeD9bjxYG3-rGiHc/edit#heading=h.3aotro31jrgt
It's best for me just to show u the doc then explain it. No disrespect meant im just bad at explaing
Thanks, man! Saved me the trouble of doing the quest!
Edit: wait a minute... this thing hasn't been implemented yet, has it?
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*Looks above him
Gah.. Fuck. Its like pulling teeth with a spoon.
Where to begin.....
Lets start here: I know one of the government's sucks, that be the one where the leaders are chosen due to special biological happenings. The other one has a system where you earn your rights.
I think the option where all can earn equality vs the option where you cant no matter what, is the better form of government. I doubt you agree however, because serving in the military is bad right?
Round three:
1.Trench Wives arent ALL OVER the place. They are primarily in one area. The Trenches. Cause lots of stress is to be had there, and people need relief. Not saying its right or fine. I doubt everyone has a trench wife, that be ridiculous. "Now, MAYBE it's only like that HERE, but there is no evidence to suggest that." No evidence to suggest its the same everywhere else, we are both in the dark here. If you want to say that all Reds have Trench Wives and that it is like that from Gildemere to the Reds home city, YOU are the one who needs the evidence for that claim. "But I have all the evidence here, the DMZ!!!" 1/16th is all we fucking see of the planet. Back in the 1800's, the South and the North were completely different regarding the Rights of African Americans. Who is to say, that the VERY STRESS inducing frontlines of war, which is we see for ourselves, are the same a the heartland of the Reds and the cities already conquered by the Reds?
2. Well it sure sounds coming from you that you believe the Reds completely hate the Golds, so how is it even possible?
Im not gonna deny we dont see a lot of sex slaves, that would be ignorant. What i can say though, is that is to be completely expected from the frontlines of the war. On the frontlines, people are stressed, so yes they have sex slaves to relieve them. Why the fuck would places where there isnt combat have sex slaves? They are called Trench Wives, they are used in the trenches. "But we see them in Kressia and thats where see them dirty Reds!!!". Kressia is stone throw away from enemy territory and the threat of complete annihilation is very real. No fucking shit do they have something to help them, is it justified? No. Is it as bad as it could be? Maybe not. Still, you cant account for a thousand of a species to be the same as the rest.
3.When the Nazi's were killing the Jews in Aushwitz, im pretty sure they didnt revolt. Why? They had no way to fight well. The Reds have a bunch of places where prisoners are stored, i dont see it being difficult to unload machine guns into the crowd and not have resistance. Now let me give you a strong point, thats hurts me and you, the Trench Wives wouldnt revolt. You said so yourself, they are drugged to high heaven and over. Why would they bother fighting back. Even if they did and managed to get weapons, i doubt they could use them well with shaky hands. It would be painfully easy to kill all them, they cant defend themselves, and they are THAT deep into Red Territory. Now the ones in Kressia, you have all the points there. Kressia still has a resistance there, they sure could revolt. But farther back? I doubt it.
4. I didnt know Lieve was aware of High Commands plans to end the war..... Ranks must be different to ours.....
I got nothing smart for this, so...... Maybe she just assumed? (Whichever which, this point is fucky)
5. I dont see how you can have reason here if you dont understand what i have been trying to say. I understand you have no reason to believe it, because you are a die hard Gold fan. Power to you there. But as the players we dont know how other places are.
So i have no reason to believe that the way we see the Reds treat the Golds here is the same as somewhere else. When I see some evidence Ill consider it.
6. You keep sounding like that they are so incompatible with each other that death to their respective races would be the right answer. A lot of Golds are still breathing, there isnt a genocide going on. "But the Trench Wives!!!"
You know what? Tough shit, this fucking issue is single handily the most frustrating thing to talk about here. I can go on about how its wrong for New Texas to make people take the Treatment and have the women become airheads that only want to please their mega bull studs. Or about how this same issue can discussed on about the Dzaan and the Bothrioc. At least most of the Trench Wives arent fucking miserable with their existence, they are so drugged up I doubt they care. That is a bad thing. No questions about it. But at least they arent treated like complete shit, from what i have seen, a lot of the Red owning Trench Wives are concerned/care for them even if its a fucked up way.
7. For the Reds it is a very controversial thing. Come the end of the war, i doubt it would stay that way. The Reds arent any more heartless monsters than the golds, even to say that both are that bad. But once again, Tough Shit. This isnt a nice Uinverse where morals always win. Slavery, in a Porn Universe, where literally anything can go, and your mad about this? If youve come from CoC, this is to be completely excepted. You care too much, and thats saying something from me.
8. The Golds certainly care what they think. And why does it matter? What other reasons would the UGC side with the Golds? Cause theyre the ones losing a war? You biggest reasoning for why the Reds are unforgivable, is the Venom problem. But if it was that big of an issue, why do the UGC not care?
9. If you are under the presumption that they are to go free at the end of the war, then I cant understand why you care then. This is an occurrence of slaves in a universe where its almost a fucking norm. And in the other cases its usually permanent. If you are thinking its temporary, then its literally fine compared to the rest of the shit going on. And drug addiction. Its the future. Rehab is probably god tier at this point. But your right, there is no mention of it existing, but there are ways to fight it and break it.Especially in this Universe. *Cough* Reaha *Cough*
10. Ok. Reds want the Golds to rework their's. What now?
11. It would probably be as easy as the Nazi's hunting Jews in WW2. The Jewish people were quite resistant when the Nazi's hunted them down, put them into camps, and just flat killed some. I dont see how the Golds in deep captured Red cities would be any different from them here.
You are overestimating the Golds while underestimating the Reds.
12. The Reds arent killing the race, they were going to bomb a city. Not exactly a country right? They were in a similar position to the Japanese by not surrendering when they were clearly beaten in every way to sunday. So, the Reds were going to drop a bomb to end it right there. One City of Golds vs All the other ones. Quite the number distance.
13. Ok, the war thing was a shitty excuse. But you didnt answer everything i said there, Like how you only hear about Gold Genocide from ONE Red of decent power +Lieve, and how you hear about Red Genocide from ONE Gold. We are both wrong here champ. Everyone on both sides dont want genocide, but some extremists do.
14. How the hell do the Golds deserve to win the war? They got their asses beat. By a stronger military, people, and weapons. Oh boo hoo, your side isnt winning, doesnt mean that they immediately should get a pat on the back and given a medal for being the ones who shouldve won. The Reds earned the victory, just like how each and every force that won a war has. They worked for it and succeeded. The Golds failed and dont deserve a turn around due to the pity card. Get real.
15. I wasnt talking about shit you said, i was giving a reason why I chose Red.
16. I see one former Gold Prisoner. Doesnt mean there's a thousand more. I see a lot of Red Prisoners, doesnt mean there's any less.
17. I know, thats just one of the favorites from the Golds, because they're butt hurt that they got their asses kicked.
This all isnt gonna really matter down the line, this is simply the current stop for controversy and neither side is right.
@StainlessSteele You understand me? Our respective sides arent right. Yours isnt even more right and mine isnt less right. They're both wrong, there's is no good choice. But I imagine you'd say otherwise. But who knows, maybe youll prove me wrong?
Gah.. Fuck. Its like pulling teeth with a spoon.
Where to begin.....
Lets start here: I know one of the government's sucks, that be the one where the leaders are chosen due to special biological happenings. The other one has a system where you earn your rights.
I think the option where all can earn equality vs the option where you cant no matter what, is the better form of government. I doubt you agree however, because serving in the military is bad right?
Round three:
1.Trench Wives arent ALL OVER the place. They are primarily in one area. The Trenches. Cause lots of stress is to be had there, and people need relief. Not saying its right or fine. I doubt everyone has a trench wife, that be ridiculous. "Now, MAYBE it's only like that HERE, but there is no evidence to suggest that." No evidence to suggest its the same everywhere else, we are both in the dark here. If you want to say that all Reds have Trench Wives and that it is like that from Gildemere to the Reds home city, YOU are the one who needs the evidence for that claim. "But I have all the evidence here, the DMZ!!!" 1/16th is all we fucking see of the planet. Back in the 1800's, the South and the North were completely different regarding the Rights of African Americans. Who is to say, that the VERY STRESS inducing frontlines of war, which is we see for ourselves, are the same a the heartland of the Reds and the cities already conquered by the Reds?
2. Well it sure sounds coming from you that you believe the Reds completely hate the Golds, so how is it even possible?
Im not gonna deny we dont see a lot of sex slaves, that would be ignorant. What i can say though, is that is to be completely expected from the frontlines of the war. On the frontlines, people are stressed, so yes they have sex slaves to relieve them. Why the fuck would places where there isnt combat have sex slaves? They are called Trench Wives, they are used in the trenches. "But we see them in Kressia and thats where see them dirty Reds!!!". Kressia is stone throw away from enemy territory and the threat of complete annihilation is very real. No fucking shit do they have something to help them, is it justified? No. Is it as bad as it could be? Maybe not. Still, you cant account for a thousand of a species to be the same as the rest.
3.When the Nazi's were killing the Jews in Aushwitz, im pretty sure they didnt revolt. Why? They had no way to fight well. The Reds have a bunch of places where prisoners are stored, i dont see it being difficult to unload machine guns into the crowd and not have resistance. Now let me give you a strong point, thats hurts me and you, the Trench Wives wouldnt revolt. You said so yourself, they are drugged to high heaven and over. Why would they bother fighting back. Even if they did and managed to get weapons, i doubt they could use them well with shaky hands. It would be painfully easy to kill all them, they cant defend themselves, and they are THAT deep into Red Territory. Now the ones in Kressia, you have all the points there. Kressia still has a resistance there, they sure could revolt. But farther back? I doubt it.
4. I didnt know Lieve was aware of High Commands plans to end the war..... Ranks must be different to ours.....
I got nothing smart for this, so...... Maybe she just assumed? (Whichever which, this point is fucky)
5. I dont see how you can have reason here if you dont understand what i have been trying to say. I understand you have no reason to believe it, because you are a die hard Gold fan. Power to you there. But as the players we dont know how other places are.
So i have no reason to believe that the way we see the Reds treat the Golds here is the same as somewhere else. When I see some evidence Ill consider it.
6. You keep sounding like that they are so incompatible with each other that death to their respective races would be the right answer. A lot of Golds are still breathing, there isnt a genocide going on. "But the Trench Wives!!!"
You know what? Tough shit, this fucking issue is single handily the most frustrating thing to talk about here. I can go on about how its wrong for New Texas to make people take the Treatment and have the women become airheads that only want to please their mega bull studs. Or about how this same issue can discussed on about the Dzaan and the Bothrioc. At least most of the Trench Wives arent fucking miserable with their existence, they are so drugged up I doubt they care. That is a bad thing. No questions about it. But at least they arent treated like complete shit, from what i have seen, a lot of the Red owning Trench Wives are concerned/care for them even if its a fucked up way.
7. For the Reds it is a very controversial thing. Come the end of the war, i doubt it would stay that way. The Reds arent any more heartless monsters than the golds, even to say that both are that bad. But once again, Tough Shit. This isnt a nice Uinverse where morals always win. Slavery, in a Porn Universe, where literally anything can go, and your mad about this? If youve come from CoC, this is to be completely excepted. You care too much, and thats saying something from me.
8. The Golds certainly care what they think. And why does it matter? What other reasons would the UGC side with the Golds? Cause theyre the ones losing a war? You biggest reasoning for why the Reds are unforgivable, is the Venom problem. But if it was that big of an issue, why do the UGC not care?
9. If you are under the presumption that they are to go free at the end of the war, then I cant understand why you care then. This is an occurrence of slaves in a universe where its almost a fucking norm. And in the other cases its usually permanent. If you are thinking its temporary, then its literally fine compared to the rest of the shit going on. And drug addiction. Its the future. Rehab is probably god tier at this point. But your right, there is no mention of it existing, but there are ways to fight it and break it.Especially in this Universe. *Cough* Reaha *Cough*
10. Ok. Reds want the Golds to rework their's. What now?
11. It would probably be as easy as the Nazi's hunting Jews in WW2. The Jewish people were quite resistant when the Nazi's hunted them down, put them into camps, and just flat killed some. I dont see how the Golds in deep captured Red cities would be any different from them here.
You are overestimating the Golds while underestimating the Reds.
12. The Reds arent killing the race, they were going to bomb a city. Not exactly a country right? They were in a similar position to the Japanese by not surrendering when they were clearly beaten in every way to sunday. So, the Reds were going to drop a bomb to end it right there. One City of Golds vs All the other ones. Quite the number distance.
13. Ok, the war thing was a shitty excuse. But you didnt answer everything i said there, Like how you only hear about Gold Genocide from ONE Red of decent power +Lieve, and how you hear about Red Genocide from ONE Gold. We are both wrong here champ. Everyone on both sides dont want genocide, but some extremists do.
14. How the hell do the Golds deserve to win the war? They got their asses beat. By a stronger military, people, and weapons. Oh boo hoo, your side isnt winning, doesnt mean that they immediately should get a pat on the back and given a medal for being the ones who shouldve won. The Reds earned the victory, just like how each and every force that won a war has. They worked for it and succeeded. The Golds failed and dont deserve a turn around due to the pity card. Get real.
15. I wasnt talking about shit you said, i was giving a reason why I chose Red.
16. I see one former Gold Prisoner. Doesnt mean there's a thousand more. I see a lot of Red Prisoners, doesnt mean there's any less.
17. I know, thats just one of the favorites from the Golds, because they're butt hurt that they got their asses kicked.
This all isnt gonna really matter down the line, this is simply the current stop for controversy and neither side is right.
@StainlessSteele You understand me? Our respective sides arent right. Yours isnt even more right and mine isnt less right. They're both wrong, there's is no good choice. But I imagine you'd say otherwise. But who knows, maybe youll prove me wrong?
Don't worry, we'll have another planet of moral quandaries in like 3 years or so.
Augh. Too big. Gonna have to condense. And it still ended up being super long.
Where are you getting those percentages?
I agree. But that evil is contained to the higher ups who make those decisions and those who carry them out. The reds is spread through their a huge chunk of their society. And shitty prison environments is bad, but forced drug addiction and sex slavery is worse, I'd say. Considering the golds also have shitty prison situations as well and the one's who don't are sex slaves.
Ha ha ha. No. Serving int he military is good. Having your social status and voting rights tied to it is beyond stupid.
Trench wives don't just go back to being normal prisoners when you leave the trenches. They keep them. So any red that has seen combat at any point since the implementation of trench wives can have them. Regardless of where they are stationed. In fact, their entire existence is because there aren't any room in the prisons. If there was room in the prisons elsewhere they could just ship prisoners back. They ARE all over because they stay trench wives until at least the end of the war. Any red who has ever seen combat has the option to have them and likely does, since it's basically a necessity. They can't go anywhere else.
I never said that. All I've said is the reds are far more evil than the golds. There are good reds too. The doctor being a shining example. I don't think ALL reds are evil and I don't think all reds can't get along with golds. Red victory or gold victory the two are going to have to get along at some point. The only difference is who will be in charge as they get along. Or try to.
They also were sneaky about it and many people didn't know the full extent of what was going on until it was too late. If the Nazi's had started walking into neighborhoods and shooting people on site there would have been a much stronger resistance than there was. Maybe. I'm not really a master historian.
It's not hidden knowledge, as far as I know. Everyone is aware they were gonna nuke the city. They have no problem flat out telling it to an outsiders face. They aren't trying to cover it up.
It's how their society works. Any place that is run by their society works the same way. Unless you want to tell me that their society in this ONE city is different from the rest of their society (which it isn't, since this is a law that covers everywhere).
You can and others have. Big surprise, sex slavery isn't something everyone enjoys. You can easily find older threads talking about wanting to blow up New Texas. Maybe even some recent one's, I haven't checked.
Are you assuming I'm supportive of those other places that keep permanent slaves? It's a fetish. I have no problem with people enjoying their fetish. The difference those permanent slave places don't have a bunch of real world apologists trying to argue on their behalf.
I have no idea what this even means. It should be a bumper sticker though.
You're missing my point. She wasn't saying that genocide was the only option. She gave two possibilities. Genocide or a reworking of their society. She thinks those are the only two options, and honestly she's actually probably right. I don't support the genocide option, so we should work towards the reworking of their society one. I don't recall her ever favoring one over the other.
Sure. I don't think all reds want to genocide the golds.
It's less that the golds deserve to win it, and more that the reds just really really really deserve to loose it. Not because their military isn't good. But because they are a moral less pile of evil villainy.
I mean, unless you think they just made a special exception for her. But as has been said elsewhere in this thread, the golds do have prisons. The fact that these prisons are pretty sub par on how they treat their prisoners is a point against the golds.
No, it was one gold talking about 1 of 2 possible options.
Yes, they are both wrong. As I've said, I don't think the golds are helpless angels that have done no wrong. I think the reds have done MORE wrong and have done WORSE wrong. The golds don't have clean hands, but drug addicted sex slavery is about as low as is possible to go. There isn't really a whole lot more evil than that, and as I have said, it's not the only thing the reds have against them.
Where are you getting those percentages?
I agree. But that evil is contained to the higher ups who make those decisions and those who carry them out. The reds is spread through their a huge chunk of their society. And shitty prison environments is bad, but forced drug addiction and sex slavery is worse, I'd say. Considering the golds also have shitty prison situations as well and the one's who don't are sex slaves.
Ha ha ha. No. Serving int he military is good. Having your social status and voting rights tied to it is beyond stupid.
Trench wives don't just go back to being normal prisoners when you leave the trenches. They keep them. So any red that has seen combat at any point since the implementation of trench wives can have them. Regardless of where they are stationed. In fact, their entire existence is because there aren't any room in the prisons. If there was room in the prisons elsewhere they could just ship prisoners back. They ARE all over because they stay trench wives until at least the end of the war. Any red who has ever seen combat has the option to have them and likely does, since it's basically a necessity. They can't go anywhere else.
I never said that. All I've said is the reds are far more evil than the golds. There are good reds too. The doctor being a shining example. I don't think ALL reds are evil and I don't think all reds can't get along with golds. Red victory or gold victory the two are going to have to get along at some point. The only difference is who will be in charge as they get along. Or try to.
They also were sneaky about it and many people didn't know the full extent of what was going on until it was too late. If the Nazi's had started walking into neighborhoods and shooting people on site there would have been a much stronger resistance than there was. Maybe. I'm not really a master historian.
It's not hidden knowledge, as far as I know. Everyone is aware they were gonna nuke the city. They have no problem flat out telling it to an outsiders face. They aren't trying to cover it up.
It's how their society works. Any place that is run by their society works the same way. Unless you want to tell me that their society in this ONE city is different from the rest of their society (which it isn't, since this is a law that covers everywhere).
You can and others have. Big surprise, sex slavery isn't something everyone enjoys. You can easily find older threads talking about wanting to blow up New Texas. Maybe even some recent one's, I haven't checked.
Are you assuming I'm supportive of those other places that keep permanent slaves? It's a fetish. I have no problem with people enjoying their fetish. The difference those permanent slave places don't have a bunch of real world apologists trying to argue on their behalf.
I have no idea what this even means. It should be a bumper sticker though.
You're missing my point. She wasn't saying that genocide was the only option. She gave two possibilities. Genocide or a reworking of their society. She thinks those are the only two options, and honestly she's actually probably right. I don't support the genocide option, so we should work towards the reworking of their society one. I don't recall her ever favoring one over the other.
Sure. I don't think all reds want to genocide the golds.
It's less that the golds deserve to win it, and more that the reds just really really really deserve to loose it. Not because their military isn't good. But because they are a moral less pile of evil villainy.
I mean, unless you think they just made a special exception for her. But as has been said elsewhere in this thread, the golds do have prisons. The fact that these prisons are pretty sub par on how they treat their prisoners is a point against the golds.
No, it was one gold talking about 1 of 2 possible options.
Yes, they are both wrong. As I've said, I don't think the golds are helpless angels that have done no wrong. I think the reds have done MORE wrong and have done WORSE wrong. The golds don't have clean hands, but drug addicted sex slavery is about as low as is possible to go. There isn't really a whole lot more evil than that, and as I have said, it's not the only thing the reds have against them.
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I'm not going to sit here and argue with the multitude of points you guys are throwing around, but let me touch base on one of them.
This one city is certainly different from the rest of their society. We're talking about the goings on in Kressia, the most recently captured major city on the front lines of a war that's lasted 7 years. Kressia is on the bleeding edge of the war front, an edge that is still bleeding and will take time to heal.
Let's not forget that the Federation has had cities before the most recent war, though the trench wives issue only cropped up after the start of the war. Trench wives are less the Federation being pure evil and more being focused on winning the war.
Moreover, trench wives aren't a law, but they're not illegal either. Either High Command is too busy fighting the golds, or they've already decided to abolish the practice when the war is over, when it isn't shooting themselves in the feet.
The Federation is fighting a corrupt government that 'elects' its officials based on if babies pop out of them, with said officials then going on to birth hundreds of children a day so that they can attempt to replenish what they lose through their main battle strategy. Their main battle strategy being: use chemical agents, that were tested on POWs between rounds of torturing them, to attempt to choke out the Reds and when that fails send as many untrained, unwilling, and barely armed conscripted individuals running at the Reds in the hopes that throwing a wall of flesh at a trained army will overwhelm them.
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Also, I'm not seeing where in Lieve's talk options does she mention gold genocide. Could somebody direct me to it?
This one city is certainly different from the rest of their society. We're talking about the goings on in Kressia, the most recently captured major city on the front lines of a war that's lasted 7 years. Kressia is on the bleeding edge of the war front, an edge that is still bleeding and will take time to heal.
Lieve said:
Let's not forget that the Federation has had cities before the most recent war, though the trench wives issue only cropped up after the start of the war. Trench wives are less the Federation being pure evil and more being focused on winning the war.
Lieve said:
Moreover, trench wives aren't a law, but they're not illegal either. Either High Command is too busy fighting the golds, or they've already decided to abolish the practice when the war is over, when it isn't shooting themselves in the feet.
Anzhela said:
The Federation is fighting a corrupt government that 'elects' its officials based on if babies pop out of them, with said officials then going on to birth hundreds of children a day so that they can attempt to replenish what they lose through their main battle strategy. Their main battle strategy being: use chemical agents, that were tested on POWs between rounds of torturing them, to attempt to choke out the Reds and when that fails send as many untrained, unwilling, and barely armed conscripted individuals running at the Reds in the hopes that throwing a wall of flesh at a trained army will overwhelm them.
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Also, I'm not seeing where in Lieve's talk options does she mention gold genocide. Could somebody direct me to it?
Lieve said:
Does it matter which side is right? Its war that sounds like it started because of "Well they said this, But they said this". Its war and war has no "good" side. Whatever side you choose is going to be that "good" side. One side has a ww2 CCamp feel and the other side has a sort of drug addicted sex slaves. It's more of a moral obligation to chose the side you agree with. In the end it dosent matter in there history it will be written by the victor and all war crimes committed by the soldiers will be swept under the table, and forgotten after a few years, after that the history of what really happend is next
Oh, well, there you go then. I thought that might be the case but couldn't remember it.
I believe he's referring to some Federation troops wanting to execute the gold queens.
That would certainly hurt the golds, but wouldn't lead to extinction, considering there are plenty of virginal queens (like Liliana) and also spacer fertility treatments that could just eradicate the need for queens and solve the Federation's fertility issues at once.
So the tensions between gold and red might be higher there, but that doesn't change what I said. Trench Wives aren't a thing that only happen in Kressia. They don't stop being POW until the war is over. The golds they are talking about in those other towns they captured are likely the civilians, not the Trench Wives.
It's both. They wanted to win the war so they decided they would be super evil. You cannot excuse any and all actions just because it's a war. Our own history is full of horrible atrocities that were committed during war time that no one, even the people fighting in the war then, see as justified. Drug addicted sex slavery cannot be justified with "but we REALLY want to win, guys!"