*Looks above him
Gah.. Fuck. Its like pulling teeth with a spoon.
Where to begin.....
No, both forms of government are abysmal. They should both be done away with completely. They both suck ass. And not in the good way.
Lets start here: I know one of the government's sucks, that be the one where the leaders are chosen due to special biological happenings. The other one has a system where you earn your rights.
I think the option where all can earn equality vs the option where you cant no matter what, is the better form of government. I doubt you agree however, because serving in the military is bad right?
1. It's not just Leive and Sellara, trench wives are all over the place. Everyone's got one. And talking with the doctor chick shows abuse (that is abuse BEYOND turning them into sex slaves) is not uncommon.
Now, MAYBE it's only like that HERE, but there is no evidence to suggest that. If you want to claim that their society funtions diferently than the rest just in that one city for some odd reason you need evidence to support it or it means nothing.
2. What do you mean? I never said it was impossible for the reds and golds to live happily together. I don't know what you think that couple proves. I said they own a lot of sex slaves. And they do. You can't walk two feet through the city without bumping into them. Almost every red you talk to has them. They are all over the place.
3. No, a revolt of all the trench wives and all the prisoners would be a huge problem to deal with. Even if they put it down in the end there would be a lot of trouble doing it. They don't want to deal with that.
4. Nope, Leive confirms it. If they hadn't shown up they would have blown up the city and Leive says it would have been pretty bad.
5. This is such a bullshit argument. It's basically "I know the reds suck, but you should support them because MAYBE they only suck HERE and not everywhere else! You know MAYBE. It's not IMPOSSIBLE.
I'll grant you it's not impossible, but I see no reason to believe it. When I see some evidence, I'll consider it.
6. I never said it's impossible for reds and golds to live together. Why are you acting like I did?
7. Because it's legal and they are everywhere. All the reds you talk to have them just about. You can't walk two feet without bumping into trench wives. They are all over the place. It's not an isolated thing.
8. What? I never said anything about offworlders. Who gives a shit what they think?
9. I don't care if they stay slaves or not. The fact that they were slaves AT ALL is the evil. I have been arguing this point under the assumption that they would be freed when the war was over. If they are actually thinking of keeping them as slaves past that that would just make them EVEN MORE evil than they are now. Also, drug addiction doesn't just go away. Have fun, you're free now, hope your drug addiction is manageable.
10. She also says that a reworking of the red society is another option in a different conversation tree.
11. Killing all the golds is not as easy as you say. They have cities full of them that would fight back if they tried killing them all. It's easier to take them over and try and not provoke them.
12. Not what I meant. One city is not the same as a country. The golds where not in the position the Japanese were.
13. War is not an excuse. You cannot just excuse any and all evil actions by saying "war". Some action cross the line. Like sex slavery. Imagine if the US brought back a bunch of sex slaves from the Middle East. "But war!" is not a valid excuse.
14. Now that the aliens are here and Steele is here bombing a city vs bombing all reds are no longer the only two options for a pro gold victory. Maybe you might have a point if literally the only two options for winning the war were bombing one city or bombing all cities but that's not the case anymore. Now we can look more toward who deserves to win the war more, instead of just which option means less deaths. And the reds don't deserve to win the war. They deserve MUCH MUCH worse than just loosing it, but I'll settle for that.
15. Racism was never one of the evils I listed, so I don't know what pointing out that they aren't racist proves.
16. Once again Leive was a gold prisoner. They keep them. She also didn't get chemicals tested on her. Maybe that happens, and that should be shut down and those responsible punished.
17. There is no reason a gold victory is only obtainable through genocide. There are TONS of possible solutions for a gold victory. Look through this thread to find some. Especially now that Steele and the aliens are involved.
Round three:
1.Trench Wives arent ALL OVER the place. They are primarily in one area. The Trenches. Cause lots of stress is to be had there, and people need relief. Not saying its right or fine. I doubt everyone has a trench wife, that be ridiculous. "Now, MAYBE it's only like that HERE, but there is no evidence to suggest that." No evidence to suggest its the same everywhere else, we are both in the dark here. If you want to say that all Reds have Trench Wives and that it is like that from Gildemere to the Reds home city, YOU are the one who needs the evidence for that claim. "But I have all the evidence here, the DMZ!!!" 1/16th is all we fucking see of the planet. Back in the 1800's, the South and the North were completely different regarding the Rights of African Americans. Who is to say, that the VERY STRESS inducing frontlines of war, which is we see for ourselves, are the same a the heartland of the Reds and the cities already conquered by the Reds?
2. Well it sure sounds coming from you that you believe the Reds completely hate the Golds, so how is it even possible?
Im not gonna deny we dont see a lot of sex slaves, that would be ignorant. What i can say though, is that is to be completely expected from the frontlines of the war. On the frontlines, people are stressed, so yes they have sex slaves to relieve them. Why the fuck would places where there isnt combat have sex slaves? They are called Trench Wives, they are used in the trenches. "But we see them in Kressia and thats where see them dirty Reds!!!". Kressia is stone throw away from enemy territory and the threat of complete annihilation is very real. No fucking shit do they have something to help them, is it justified? No. Is it as bad as it could be? Maybe not. Still, you cant account for a thousand of a species to be the same as the rest.
3.When the Nazi's were killing the Jews in Aushwitz, im pretty sure they didnt revolt. Why? They had no way to fight well. The Reds have a bunch of places where prisoners are stored, i dont see it being difficult to unload machine guns into the crowd and not have resistance. Now let me give you a strong point, thats hurts me and you, the Trench Wives wouldnt revolt. You said so yourself, they are drugged to high heaven and over. Why would they bother fighting back. Even if they did and managed to get weapons, i doubt they could use them well with shaky hands. It would be painfully easy to kill all them, they cant defend themselves, and they are THAT deep into Red Territory. Now the ones in Kressia, you have all the points there. Kressia still has a resistance there, they sure could revolt. But farther back? I doubt it.
4. I didnt know Lieve was aware of High Commands plans to end the war..... Ranks must be different to ours.....
I got nothing smart for this, so...... Maybe she just assumed? (Whichever which, this point is fucky)
5. I dont see how you can have reason here if you dont understand what i have been trying to say. I understand you have no reason to believe it, because you are a die hard Gold fan. Power to you there. But as the players we dont know how other places are.
So i have no reason to believe that the way we see the Reds treat the Golds here is the same as somewhere else. When I see some evidence Ill consider it.
6. You keep sounding like that they are so incompatible with each other that death to their respective races would be the right answer. A lot of Golds are still breathing, there isnt a genocide going on. "But the Trench Wives!!!"
You know what? Tough shit, this fucking issue is single handily the most frustrating thing to talk about here. I can go on about how its wrong for New Texas to make people take the Treatment and have the women become airheads that only want to please their mega bull studs. Or about how this same issue can discussed on about the Dzaan and the Bothrioc. At least most of the Trench Wives arent fucking miserable with their existence, they are so drugged up I doubt they care. That is a bad thing. No questions about it. But at least they arent treated like complete shit, from what i have seen, a lot of the Red owning Trench Wives are concerned/care for them even if its a fucked up way.
7. For the Reds it is a very controversial thing. Come the end of the war, i doubt it would stay that way. The Reds arent any more heartless monsters than the golds, even to say that both are that bad. But once again, Tough Shit. This isnt a nice Uinverse where morals always win. Slavery, in a Porn Universe, where literally anything can go, and your mad about this? If youve come from CoC, this is to be completely excepted. You care too much, and thats saying something from me.
8. The Golds certainly care what they think. And why does it matter? What other reasons would the UGC side with the Golds? Cause theyre the ones losing a war? You biggest reasoning for why the Reds are unforgivable, is the Venom problem. But if it was that big of an issue, why do the UGC not care?
9. If you are under the presumption that they are to go free at the end of the war, then I cant understand why you care then. This is an occurrence of slaves in a universe where its almost a fucking norm. And in the other cases its usually permanent. If you are thinking its temporary, then its literally fine compared to the rest of the shit going on. And drug addiction. Its the future. Rehab is probably god tier at this point. But your right, there is no mention of it existing, but there are ways to fight it and break it.Especially in this Universe. *Cough* Reaha *Cough*
10. Ok. Reds want the Golds to rework their's. What now?
11. It would probably be as easy as the Nazi's hunting Jews in WW2. The Jewish people were quite resistant when the Nazi's hunted them down, put them into camps, and just flat killed some. I dont see how the Golds in deep captured Red cities would be any different from them here.
You are overestimating the Golds while underestimating the Reds.
12. The Reds arent killing the race, they were going to bomb a city. Not exactly a country right? They were in a similar position to the Japanese by not surrendering when they were clearly beaten in every way to sunday. So, the Reds were going to drop a bomb to end it right there. One City of Golds vs All the other ones. Quite the number distance.
13. Ok, the war thing was a shitty excuse. But you didnt answer everything i said there, Like how you only hear about Gold Genocide from ONE Red of decent power +Lieve, and how you hear about Red Genocide from ONE Gold. We are both wrong here champ. Everyone on both sides dont want genocide, but some extremists do.
14. How the hell do the Golds deserve to win the war? They got their asses beat. By a stronger military, people, and weapons. Oh boo hoo, your side isnt winning, doesnt mean that they immediately should get a pat on the back and given a medal for being the ones who shouldve won. The Reds earned the victory, just like how each and every force that won a war has. They worked for it and succeeded. The Golds failed and dont deserve a turn around due to the pity card. Get real.
15. I wasnt talking about shit you said, i was giving a reason why I chose Red.
16. I see one former Gold Prisoner. Doesnt mean there's a thousand more. I see a lot of Red Prisoners, doesnt mean there's any less.
17. I know, thats just one of the favorites from the Golds, because they're butt hurt that they got their asses kicked.
This all isnt gonna really matter down the line, this is simply the current stop for controversy and neither side is right.
@StainlessSteele You understand me? Our respective sides arent right. Yours isnt even more right and mine isnt less right. They're both wrong, there's is no good choice. But I imagine you'd say otherwise. But who knows, maybe youll prove me wrong?