Myrellion Content Discussion (GENERAL)

Savin

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Okay, since like half a dozen threads are risking derail at any given time talking about it...


Here's a place for general discussion of Myrellion's content. Talk about the Gold/Red war, the hopes and dreams of the nyrea, ask how to get Taivra to love you, whatever. Just be civil and try and keep your genocide/mass-murder fetishes to yourself. Thanks!
 
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TheHiddenOne

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Sep 14, 2015
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Okay, since like half a dozen threads are risking derail at any given time talking about it...

Here's a place for general discussion of Myrellion's content. Talk about the Gold/Red war, the hopes and dreams of the nyrea, ask how to get Taivra to love you, whatever. Just be civil and try and keep your genocide/mass-murder fetishes to yourself. Thanks!

That.. is an interesting introduction ^_^

I wonder, will the outcome of the probe-search on Myrellion influence the war? Or is the Nyrea colony Taivra build to small to be of global importance?

I have to admit though, that I rather like the grey& grey morality on this planet.. Even if every non-red-myr is telling you "Golds nice, Reds bad" I still get the feelings that this ingame-statement is

flawed and that the Golds are just as bad as the Reds - they are just in a situation where it is very easy to be a nice one to the foreign superpower sicne tey have *nothing* to lose anymore.

I personally think the only way to solve such a problem is to divide them - permanently - because it is kinda difficulty to stop the circle of violence *unless* both parties want it (which is not the case here)

Every other calming factor is not existent, since the two Myr races are the only fractions on this world (the "free" Nyrea being to disorganized and technological weak to be counted here) and a lack

of ressources (fertility in this case) are usually only make ppl more aggressive till the effect are no longer ignorable.

Huh, reconsidering this rant, the codex-work of TiTS is pretty good, especially considering this is originially a fetish-filled porn game.
 

Nik_van_Rijn

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Okay, the main thing that bothers me about the Great Myrellion War, even more that it's ridiculous scale or 'trench wives' related BS is this: what the hell did any of the sides plan to accomplish at the beginning and what are their current goals?

Gilden Republic claims they had no interest in starting the war, yet according to the Reds they had made several attempts to subjugate and/or destroy the 'rebellious hives' throughout the history prior to the current conflict.

Right now Gold Queens are just glad to be alive, but if the cease-fire will last and their overwhelming advantage in influencing the Coalition's officials won't change, they'll probably try to use it to regain as much of their lost territories as they can.

Red's on the other hand are a total mystery. They were ready for war, but we have no idea if it was the result of caution or expansionist plans. In case of it being the latter, we have no idea how far did those plans go. What could Reds possibly been planning to do with all the new territories and population? The Gold Queens, the main target of Federation's propaganda  and the focus point for hatred even from the least racist Reds. The High Command undoubtedly knew that they won't go away even in case of total Red victory, since they are essential for Gold's survival. The Reds probably won't be able to strip their power entirely either, because for most of Gold Myr being governed by a queen is the only acceptable way.

I really, really don't want to believe that Scarlet Federation had plans for going full-on Lebensraum-freeing mode.
 

Magic Ted

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They're fucking ants, holmes. They want to be the dominant ant and take over the planet, much like fighting over your yard. Except instead of just natural instinct and territorial need there is nationalism. 
 

Nik_van_Rijn

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They are sapient. They are supposed to have at least a rough idea of what the fuck they are doing and why.  And there is nationalism and nationalism

Godwin's cat says high.
 

Savin

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Red's on the other hand are a total mystery. They were ready for war, but we have no idea if it was the result of caution or expansionist plans. In case of it being the latter, we have no idea how far did those plans go. What could Reds possibly been planning to do with all the new territories and population? The Gold Queens, the main target of Federation's propaganda  and the focus point for hatred even from the least racist Reds. The High Command undoubtedly knew that they won't go away even in case of total Red victory, since they are essential for Gold's survival.

Red's aren't that mysterious at all: they started out as a bunch of city-states on another continent, squabbling with the local nyrean warlords over territory and resources. Not long before the Great War, the Reds underwent a pretty serious Unification War amongst themselves and several nyrean hives, resulting in the creation of a new government. When the war broke out, the Federation was still being ruled largely by veterans of the Unification conflict, who'd maintained a strong military to keep the nyrea in line and defend against both them and the nearby Gold Myr (who have indeed had more than a few border skirmishes with the reds).

The question of the queens is something different. Sellera herself says she'd be more than happy to put all of the queens against the wall and execute them -- if that means the Golds die out, so be it. Others, like Lieve (and probably Nehzara), would probably push for the Golds and Reds to get off-worlder fertility treatment to curb the golds' reliance on queens, and the reds' low birth rate. Then either assume the queens will lose their power on their own, or else deal with them. After all, in the Reds' perspective, the Queens are personally the biggest reason the war dragged on so long and became so bloody: disconnected from the actual soldiers on the front line, with no clue about the world around them aside from what's on their maps... kind of like the generals in World War I who just had *no idea* what conditions and combat on the front looked like, or why soldiers were dying en-masse from being thrown over the top into machineguns. 
 
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Galgano

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Aug 28, 2015
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The reasoning for war seems to be the same as a bunch of other wars in stories: A long time ago (in a galaxy far far away) someone from one side did something. Whether it was intentional or unintentional remains to be seen. Whichever the case, a war was started between the two races. Things escalated; more atrocities were committed by both sides. Eventually the original reason for such a conflict was lost.

It reminds me of a psychology study involving monkeys. In the study, they placed a monkey in a room with a banana attached to a string. Whenever the monkey tried to reach for the banana, the scientists would punish the monkey by...spraying him with water. Eventually, the monkey stopped trying to go for the banana. They then added a second monkey into the room. Whenever the new monkey would try to reach for the banana, instead of the scientists doing something, the first monkey would take it upon himself to punish the new monkey for trying to reach for the banana. Eventually it just became accepted that they would not try to reach for that banana.

This is somewhat similar to the cause for the conflict. No one remembers the original reason for the war and just continue fighting because it's all they've known. Of course, it could just be a thing about propaganda: the reason no one remembers the reason is because the higher ups each portray their side of the conflict as the reasonable and sensible side, while the other side is the only one in the wrong. Therefore, any atrocities they commit to the other side are "justified" because the enemy is evil and you can do anything to defeat evil because they're evil and evil should never prevail because evil is evil.
 

Couch

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I've noted before that the gold/red conflict was, according to my recollection, originally very cut and dried about golds good, reds bad, and that since then efforts have been made to lionize the reds a bit and vilify the golds so as to make the conflict more gray.  I've also noted that I think this has only been half successful.

The basic point of contention regarding the golds is "they use chemical weapons".  This is a serious charge, with these types of weapons being considered morally repugnant enough that virtually all modern states have agreed not to use them, though many make exceptions for retaliatory usage.  The problem is that those same agreements ban the use of neurotoxin, which the red myr use even more casually than the golds because as the aggressors they use it on civilians.  Brainwashing is not illegal, because there's no scientific backing to suggest it actually works on anything like the scale in fiction, but if it did exist it would certainly be in that same wheelhouse.  Red myr venom addiction can be beaten, as we've seen, but still leaves deep psychological scars on the victor.  And the reds don't even need to use it, because apparently they crush the golds in every battle despite their supply lines stretching halfway around the planet, making its use all the worse because of the lack of necessity.

I think a lot of this would have been solved by making the war an even match.  Instead of Gildenmere being the last gold city on the planet and Kressia being a conquered territory, they ought to have been two cities on the border in a spot both sides agreed was the best neutral ground to host the aliens.  Then you wouldn't have one side in a ridiculously bad bargaining position that makes the very idea of an equitable settlement laughable.  You'd still have the need to do something about the gas warfare and find an antidote to red venom (preferably breed it out entirely from any reds that want to go offworld), but it would make it easier to sympathize with the reds and would make a peaceable agreement much more viable without requiring just outright booting the golds off their own planet.
 

Savin

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I've noted before that the gold/red conflict was, according to my recollection, originally very cut and dried about golds good, reds bad, and that since then efforts have been made to lionize the reds a bit and vilify the golds so as to make the conflict more gray.  

 Nah, it's always been "grey" -- largely because Fenoxo LOVES the Gold Myr and hates the reds, and I'm the exact opposite. And we both wrote our respective codices and faction lorespouts, soooo
 

Nebula Fox

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In my simple, feeble child-like ignorance of politics (unless I actually decide to actively get into them, at which point I'm like a fucking senator, except I actually care about my job), even porn politics, why can't we just drop a tamani brand fertility bomb (those exist right), dickify like a fourth of the female myr population, and let the poorly understood problem sort some of itself out?

As an aside, I always saw the red myr venom as something akin to CoC's corrupt drider venom, wasn't necessarily always on tap, you had to consciously brew it for a while. Also, in the world of porn inconsistencies, if Red Myrs aren't immune to other red myr venom, then why aren't all the red myrs constantly drugged out on their own juices since they're walking lust toxin factories?
 
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Ormael

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 Nah, it's always been "grey" -- largely because Fenoxo LOVES the Gold Myr and hates the reds, and I'm the exact opposite. And we both wrote our respective codices and faction lorespouts, soooo

sooooo from then where comed an idea of creating Orange Myrs and Orange Pills? All it doing (TF) is allowing people get both perks (as Red/Gold Pills remove oposite myr subspecies perk). Juro meantioning that Myrs themselfs will probably both sides been heavy against wide spreaded usage of it to reform both races into Orange Myrs.
 

Woider

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As an aside, I always saw the red myr venom as something akin to CoC's corrupt drider venom, wasn't necessarily always on tap, you had to consciously brew it for a while. Also, in the world of porn inconsistencies, if Red Myrs aren't immune to other red myr venom, then why aren't all the red myrs constantly drugged out on their own juices since they're walking lust toxin factories?

Best I can come up with is that it's consciously secreted, and/or changes properties when exposed to certain airborne chemicals or even oxygen.
 

Karretch

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Also, in the world of porn inconsistencies, if Red Myrs aren't immune to other red myr venom, then why aren't all the red myrs constantly drugged out on their own juices since they're walking lust toxin factories?

Same reason a venomous snake that bites itself doesn't die but if another one of the same species does it works. Immunity to own special brand.
 
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EmperorG

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As long as there is a road for general reconciliation between all parties involved, I think I'd be pretty satisfied. Though I'm sure there will be pro-Gold, pro-Red, pro-Nyrean/you faction ends too (Kinda like Fallout: New Vegas really).
 

Karretch

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Everyone's forgetting the fourth diplomatic capable species as well. They've even got an ambassador. When Bothrioc (or however it's spelled) content?
 
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Noob Salad

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What I expected: Spess Phyllia

What I got: People discussing social, political, and economic ramifications of war between exactly two factions.
 

Nik_van_Rijn

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Never. Didn't their ambassador actually get removed, too? 

Juro still gives you a run-through for her(?), no other mentions anywhere. I'm also curious about the reasons that race was dropped.

What I expected: Spess Phyllia

What I got: People discussing social, political, and economic ramifications of war between exactly two factions.

We have two whole races of Spess Ant waifus, and a whole bunch of actual characters split between them. Waifu wars imminent.

I can't really decide for myself!

So we pretend to care about settings consistency and background, instead of answering the real question.
 

Nonesuch

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I think a lot of this would have been solved by making the war an even match.  Instead of Gildenmere being the last gold city on the planet and Kressia being a conquered territory, they ought to have been two cities on the border in a spot both sides agreed was the best neutral ground to host the aliens. 
Wars almost never take place between two well-matched opponents though. That one side has a more established military tradition and keeps defeating the other, who in turn desperately flail around trying increasingly desparate measures to stop them, is an accurate portrait of war. It creates a much more believable set of tensions between the two sides - one side resent the fact the aliens have "sided" with the other despite the fact they used chemical weapons, denied them a final victory, the other for getting their land overrun and occupied by an aggressive, pseudo-fascist state. Things hang much more precariously in the balance than if everyone can shake hands and go home at any time.

Then you wouldn't have one side in a ridiculously bad bargaining position that makes the very idea of an equitable settlement laughable. 
 Why do you have such a problem with this state of play? The Golds have nukes, they have the genes Xenogen want and the UGC will glass the planet if the Reds refuse to come to terms, that isn't a ridiculously bad bargaining position. The Reds *have* to return at least some Gold territory, the alternative is mutual annihilation. I do agree that Gildenmere being literally the last city standing as being silly, though.
 
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JimThermic

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I do agree that Gildenmere being literally the last city standing as being silly, though.

Can't this be retroactively fixed, though? From my understanding, any sentences mentioning this could be pretty easily tweaked.

Probably allows for more southern gold settlements to open up in the future, should anyone want to write them.
 

Woider

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I have to wonder, what would the UGC Diplomatic Corps think if someone sneaked pictures of Juro getting intimate with the Gilden Ambassador onto the net? (Conflict of interest, much?)
 

Savin

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I do agree that Gildenmere being literally the last city standing as being silly, though.

I'm actually not sure where or when this started -- it wasn't really my intention at the time. Gildenmere WAS meant to be the capital, to be their last MAJOR military stronghold, and to be under direct threat from the Reds... but not necessarily the very last city. I always assumed until recently that it had at least several smaller towns to the south and east supporting it. 

Like, if you invaded the continental U.S. from the Eastern Seaboard, you could very easily come over and threaten D.C., but the rest of the country doesn't necessarily capitulate on the spot.

I have to wonder, what would the UGC Diplomatic Corps think if someone sneaked pictures of Juro getting intimate with the Gilden Ambassador onto the net? (Conflict of interest, much?)

That was actually a thing we've discussed playing into a Red Victory path. Basically outrage the Federation into bypassing diplomatic options.