That's kind of how it would work anyways, as service is required to gain rights to government representation in red nation.
Myrellion Content Discussion (GENERAL)
- Thread starter Savin
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Even if the Golds are forced to serve in the military, by this point there's basically nothing to actually fight on their homeworld beyond maybe some extra nyrea, the latex spiders, and those punch-bugs. Unless someone starts a civil war or something.
There is no guarantee that kind of situation would repeat itself here. I think you may be viewing the Reds in a very wrong kind of light. Yes, they are a militaristic society in which most citizens have served in the army. The Tax in blood thing has been affect for awhile and Golds would just be getting the same treatment as the Reds within the Federation for the last 7 years, almost all Federation citizens are required to join. And they wouldnt take the kids, their parents would have probably served in the military before that are even born. It probably works the same way being born in America makes you a citizen. Say a Gold joins the Federation and serves for 2 years. They are now a Federation citizen and any children that come from them are automatically a citizen as well. I believe it is stated that if you are apart of the Federation you probably need to serve unless you are capable of having children.
Thats even to say that that there are any more reasons to fight on the planet. There are no other bodies of power that we know of, that could challenge the Federation. Any race can join the Federation and are offered the citizenship for serving in the military, which would actually result in nothing being accomplished cause there is nothing to fight anymore after the war. A foreign empire showing up and liberating the captured peoples, doesnt make any sense then. The Reds have pretty much overtaken the planet and if they absorb the Golds Empire it would only take a few years for most of them to become citizens. If the second class citizen thing could be a problem, why the hell are the Nyrea and bothrioc comfortable in the Federation. They have Eqwual rights and can vote. How would being a Gold affect that, there are already Gold Federation members and they have just as much rights as any other Red.
Back you your "Foreign Empire" thing. The only way that would work, is if an offworld empire were the the foreign entity. And I dont see that being feasible.
Yes, and so does every major race in the UGC. Are you concerned that because they are a Military nation they would treat the people they colonize harshly? You dont know that and neither do I.
But so what they colonize other planets, it wouldnt be much of a difference to everything else going on. The Antae being colonizing hounds for economic and voting power and Humans being Humans. Colonization in this Universe for any race that is uplifted just happens. The only reason why I think you would say this is due to a biased hatred of them. Which Ill say you are thinking too negatively. But then what would i know.
I wasn't thinking about they would treat their colonized population. I was stating that a need of colonization would require an standing army to conquer/defend the colonies, and so the influx of gold recruits to the red Army would by still necessary, asnwering your comment of how they'll wont need such an army as they would lack relevant enemies on their planet.
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Eh, as their tech level rises, the less need they have for actual boots on the ground for guarding colonies. Hell the town on the first planet is perfectly fine with some glorified cop(s) and some turrets. Hell Myrellion is largely kept under control with just a small fleet sitting in orbit that is implied to be being replaced by a single satellite if I understand so it's not like the current tech level of the galaxy has anything to fear but pirates and corporate warfare.
To Coalsack: (One time i dont quote.....)
And thats a bad thing?
Not all colonization attempts result in a war or even if they need to defend. Unless you are talking about the Antae or something else trying to take Red Territory then thats a different story. If so then whats the problem with a nation getting recruits for the their military. Its not like they would ONLY have the Golds fight, every race apart of the Federation would fight to defend the Federation. But back to colonizing, not every planet we here of getting colonized needed an army to take it. I am assuming that you are assuming that because they are militaristic that would be their go to for it. Neither you or I could account for that, we dont know and I dont think we would know till we get an epilogue at the End of the game that tells us what the future brings.
Also what Xeivous said.
And thats a bad thing?
Not all colonization attempts result in a war or even if they need to defend. Unless you are talking about the Antae or something else trying to take Red Territory then thats a different story. If so then whats the problem with a nation getting recruits for the their military. Its not like they would ONLY have the Golds fight, every race apart of the Federation would fight to defend the Federation. But back to colonizing, not every planet we here of getting colonized needed an army to take it. I am assuming that you are assuming that because they are militaristic that would be their go to for it. Neither you or I could account for that, we dont know and I dont think we would know till we get an epilogue at the End of the game that tells us what the future brings.
Also what Xeivous said.
Simple answer: Give citizenship to all gold veterans excluding those who used chemical weapons. With upliftment, threats from domestic enemies like latex spiders and nyrea savages goes way down, so born citizenship can become a thing. Service to gain citizenship is a good system and should remain in place.
And by the time Myrellion as a whole is ready to play ball with the galaxy at large (another 200 years for the next rush) none of this bullshit would have mattered. Golds would be normal citizens. And as Xeivous said, tech means less boots.
They're just about as rare as Male Gold Myr. They stick around back in deep Red territory so we havent seen them. They're in the minority and are required for breeding so they arent sent out to fight. Women rule the planet so if there is going be any 2nd class citizen, the males probably are.
Not saying they are just that we know jack about their role in Red Society.
It's a major part of her backstory. Go talk to her. I don't have any save file currently anywhere close to Myrellion at the moment, so I have no way of getting the exact quote.
I didn't make you sound like an asshole, I only responded to what you said. I know what you meant, but describing it as "fine" is fantastically insulting. You wouldn't ever say that to any real victims face would you? My reply was more poking fun at this.
We actually have a pretty damn good idea what it means to be a federation prisoner consider a massive story element concerning their side is centered specifically around it. What we have a less good idea on is what it mean's to be a gold prisoner. But red prisoners and how fucked up their lives are are a major plot point for the planet.
"Maybe it's better elsewhere" is a meaningless thing to say if you have absolutely no reason to think it is. I can say stuff like that too. Maybe the gold queens were just joking about that genocide comment.
Oh hey, or maybe it's, you know, the fucking drug addicted sex slaves that are all the rage in the Federation right now. Maybe that plays a small role too.
No they wouldn't because then all the golds in the taken territories would revolt. The general chick makes it very clear this is the only reason that gold queen is being left alone.
Where? I have talked with her and this is not how I remember the conversation going. As I recall she thought that even if they made peace, a war would start up again eventually and that the only way the golds would survive is if there were no more reds, or if there was a massive shift in their government or society. Unless there is another quote I missed, this is not saying "I wish all reds would be killed. I hope they all die."
Except it's not because the Japanese were not down to one city left that hadn't been occupied. The golds were done. Finished. Basically helpless. And they were this way LONG before they reached Gildemere. But that's not enough for the reds. They want to wipe out the entire gold civilization. And if that means vaporizing a shit ton of civilians, children included, then so be it. Burn them all.
An entire country versus one city. See the difference?
Does anyone have this quote from the game? When did she say this? And even if she did, she's one gold. The reds evils are pretty common place through their entire society.
Sure, but one side is way MORE in the wrong than the other. The golds have done screwed up stuff. But very little comes close to forced drug addiction and sexual slavery. That's a little bunch of horror all on it's own special pretty pedestal. And it's only one of a list of red terrors.
Maybe. Maybe not. If the golds decided to pull the things the reds have then I would side against them as well. But they haven't. All you have is a blind "yeah, but they WOULD". Well, went I see it, I'll pass judgment. The golds MIGHT do terrible things if given the chance, but the reds have ALREADY DONE THEM.
I tend to pick my allies based off what they HAVE done, not what they MIGHT do in a another reality.
What? Citizenship dependent on service is a terrible way to run a government. There are tons of people who bring great things to a society who don't have the aptitude for military service.
You speak like its any better to bar voting rights behind both ethnicity and child rearing, in a society where 99.9% of the population is either barren or male.
You're given the choice of two deeply flawed system, and your literally acting like one particular flaw on the system for the side your biased against makes the system in itself irredeemable and inheritly inferior to the opposing.
Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. We've only been shown a vast minority of how the Reds function. You're not seeing the forest for the few trees you're too fixated on, namely Lieve and Sellara.
Again, not all. Yes, some, sadly, but you're expounding the problem. We're shown one couple already of gold/red mixing with the shop owners, no forced venom use there. And again, writer dissonance catering to the kink instead of thinking about the problem of overusing it.
... Are you so blinded as to see the folly of your own reasoning? They dont want to kill. If they did they'd not care about a revolt, they'd just slaughter the civs and be done with it. And again (gonna keep pounding this nail til it sinks in) Sellara is very obviously not in the right state of mind, stop using her as the one and only way to summarize the reds.
Also, as to the Reds supposedly planning to use the bomb, we only have the very, very biased words of a Gold, Lyralla, who claimed they were without any actual proof.
We humans have made plenty of weapons just to see if we could without actually intending to use them, nukes precisely. Sure, they were used, but then we kept making them without actually using them.
Remember the number thing? Ok
Also by the way, great job on reading everything i said and answering EVERY point. You make for a great debate. (Sarcasm, youll see why in a minute)
1. Ok
2. Ok. Bad wording on my part.
3. You only have pieces of the picture, you are equating examples of what we see one place to another. You cant assume that somewhere in this place its the same at that place, its ignorant. This goes both ways though so suck it up we may be both wrong we cant know.
But im not done exactly. You only barely touched anything else i said in this section, which will continue from here on in, and didnt bother to address it. Ill repeat some of it. WE DONT KNOW whats going on at the otherside of planet. Except one thing. One of the first cities conquered by the Reds in the first week of the war were perfectly assimilated and all residents are fine and some are even married to the Reds. Not as trench wives but as loving couples. Source Shiare. We only see the worst, you cant assume its all the same, the same goes for me seeing it differently. This should be a topic on its own, but we have a lot to tread through here.
4. Lets try this again. YOU. CANT. KNOW. THAT. Who is saying that Drugging Golds is whole Red side thing? Mind quoting that? Not all reds do that. You cant blame an entire race for something a chunk of their people did. Sure its probably most of them and thats bad.
But once again you didnt address everything i said in that section, quote an offworlder who cares about the Red Venom problem. Juro doesnt count by the way. Why? He's biased and "bought" off. Get me anything else then we will continue.
5. You didnt catch my meaning. What i said is if the Reds wanted ALL Golds dead then they would be dead. Im not talking about the Queens in that circumstance, im talking the race in general. There wouldnt be a revolt if the would be revolters are dead.
Sellera is a hard ass that shouldnt be the face of a people.
Also if the Reds are as EVIL as you say. Why are there still Golds alive? "Uh..For Slaves!!" Thats your only point, and its a good one but who's to say they stay slaves after everything is said and done. Im gonna go into detail below why i think not.
6.
Her antennae flick outward, stretched wide. “The ceasefire? It’s a joke. The reds won’t let it bind them for long. They’ll find an excuse to violate it or sneak a commando raid past your U.G.C. surveillance to kill off the remaining queens. It bought us time to recover, but it is no solution.”
“Well, what would be a solution?” you wonder aloud.
“Well, you could wipe their cities out with an orbital bombardment and use your anti-missile systems to ground their nukes before they hit Gildenmere. Once they’ve been buried in fire and rock, we can rebuild.”
Now Ill grant you, its not exactly saying all should die. But she says thats the only solution that would work, thats the problem.
7. One city under Gold control is = to the race in general? Really? If the Reds wanted them dead, there wouldnt be slaves, or Golds living under Red rule. They want to end the war, the nuke probably wasnt their first choice. Ever consider that the Reds asked them to surrender? "Uh.. NO! Reds are barbarians who just want blood!!" ..... Oh but no, its fine to vaporize Red civilians, children. Why? They're Red, so why not?
8. Yea, I do. One is everyone dying, and one is fewer.
9. See 6. But to go on, Ok she's one Gold. But hey guess what? Sellera is ONE RED. Name all their evils. Drug Addicted Slavery? Yes....... Everything else is excused for One reason: War. Everything else theyve done is due to war. And thats commonplace. Youve heard genocide from what? One Red? Sure paints the rest of them.
10. This is the only thing i would agree with you. But to me its the only Evil that they should be blamed for. Everything else is a result of war. Slavery is a bad thing, so is forced drug addiction, im agreeing with you. But my point wasnt about that, it was about the outcome of the war. That is all Ive been trying to explain. The Reds, to win, need to bomb ONE city. Terrible yes, For the Golds to win, they want a genocide. That ONE Gold holds more power than you are caring to admit. If the peoples opinion really mattered in a government decision about something this dark, shit like the repeal of Net Neutrality wouldnt be a problem. Whats stopping the Gold with all the power from doing what she wants?
11. One side started the race early, yeah. So we got the Reds on the verge of winning, all the shit theyve done has already passed. And? I dont want to see more blood. Neither do the Reds. the War has ravaged the planet for 7 years, with both sides committing atrocities. The best outcome for the war is one with the least amount of deaths, whether that come via peace, recolonization, or the Federation absorbing what remains of the Golds. This isnt about which side did something worse, its about an End. After everything is said and done, who's to say that Reds keep the Golds the way they are? Not me, and certainly not you, or anyone here for that matter. We cant know, Myrellion is not where most of the game takes place, its a pit stop. The state of the war is decided by us, but its future isnt. No point and assuming like you going to do. Thats what your biased to and thats fine. Doesnt mean you or me are right. Only that someone's gonna have to pick a color.
But I got two points why I chose the Reds, these are the key ones:
1: The Reds arent racist. Now hold on Billy!! "They hate the Golds cause their Gold. THEYRE RACIST!!!" Thats one side of a war hating another, thats doesnt mean racism. The Reds allow all to join the Federation. Even Golds, in fact their are happy Gold Myr in the Federation, completely fine and happy. Who's to say that the Gold Slaves cant become citizens after all is said and done? If the Reds are that ok with having anything join their ranks, I think the Golds have a good chance.
Now we have the Golds, they think all the other spieces on Myrellion are below them, not bothering to extend a hand in cooperation. Only when a much larger force shows up with superior tech do they sit and grovel.
2. The fact they even keep prisoners. If they even bother to do that how they genociders? There are a lot of Golds that are prisoners, some are sex slaves, some are addicted to drugs. Not all of them though. The Golds do not keep prisoners, its hinted somewhere that they use any captured enemies to test their chemical weapons. I mean, how else would they know they are effective?
This entire shtick is a shit show. There are arguments for both sides. But there isnt a definitive "Good" side or a definitive "Bad" side. Your entire sense of balance on this issue, is the Drug thing, and the fact they are the ones about to win. As for me im not concerned about whats happened during the war, im concerned at what happens after. And I know a few of the endings that results in both species living. And as much as you cant admit it, a Red Victory is one.
Does it bother anyone how blatantly cheerypicked the gold representive in the UGC embassy is? Who better to serve as the galactic face of the Golds in the galactic universe than a idealistic, easily manipulated grunt heavily mutilated by red myr weaponry and filled with blind gratitude towards the UGC and blind hatred towards the reds.
What better way to convince new incoming starwalkers that the golds are the injured people that need saving! Also, you know, having her up front and center while shoving Nehzara in a closet, essentially.
I mean, Nehzara is one of the aforementioned cases of how reds will fucking drug you the moment you agree to sex without even asking or mentioning red venom is a thing, so that's on them.
Well, yeah...that's kind of the point. Its propaganda. Your race has been at war for several years, you're on the back foot and you're pretty much down to the last city and the enemy is starting to develop some pretty nasty weapons. Suddenly, you discover you aren't alone in the universe and the aliens have weapons and equipment that makes your own look like peashooters. The fate of your world rests on making the right impression, so of course you're going to pick the person who can garner the most sympathy. So why not pick the heavily wounded and crippled diplomat to be the face of the Gold Myr, because it shows how "evil" the Red Myr are, what with their rockets and their bombs.
You're going to get a biased opinion of both sides, its just that right now they're both trying to pony up to the newcomers and see who will give them the edge.
I mean, we as a species are pretty much suckers for a sob story when presented with one. I can't imagine that changing too much in the TiTS-verse.
Is there ever going to be a chance for Steele to out-dom the Reds and controlling them? One of my Steeles is an evil bastard, and having a race of militarists at his command would be neat. Even if they're confined to the planet
Plus, the reds are way hotter than the golds (ew abdomens and hyper breasts
) and he wants a piece of that, but he doesn't want to sub for htem, and they seem rather big on that
Plus, the reds are way hotter than the golds (ew abdomens and hyper breasts
) and he wants a piece of that, but he doesn't want to sub for htem, and they seem rather big on that
I suppose the appointments are a good look into the sins of both nations.
The golds send out a unwitting propagandist, testament to their skill at intrigue and possibly a inherit willingness to use non-queens as necessary.
The golds send out a good but not great militant, evidence of corruption within the ranks.
The golds send out a unwitting propagandist, testament to their skill at intrigue and possibly a inherit willingness to use non-queens as necessary.
The golds send out a good but not great militant, evidence of corruption within the ranks.