Or, alternatively, have the aforementioned double wedding.
Your gripes with CoC II
- Thread starter Narmlet
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That's why I said "Able to" whether you marry one or all three of them is up to you.
Lone Wolf115
Well-Known Member
Damn bro, first response from Savin is me gettin my ass blown out.
Lone Wolf115
Well-Known Member
My biggest gripe atm is that the Manticore TF, gives you a normal scorpion tail, instead of the "scorpion" tail as described in the codex. I'm not asking for it to be functional in scenes, but it would be nice if it would be present in the appearance screen/when it's mentioned in game. I could always just decide that my Manticore player character is not just going to let anyone make use of their tail, and is saving it for the right person. Even the unnamed Manticore you can meet calls it "one of my finer assets" (It's a bit harder to do that when the game tells you that You got a scorpion tail, with a stinger)
I tried making my player character look like a Manticore for a new game yesterday (by making use of the save editor found on Github), and found it a bit weird that the TF gave me a normal scorpion tail, decided to look up if a tailcunt was planned to be added at some point, and found out that it got removed at some point during last year, when i did not have access to a working pc. Only got myself a working pc earlier this year, after being without one for over a year (And my phone would not have been much use as it was an old iphone 4s)
Now i'm left wondering. What's the point of the Manticore tf, if you are only get to end up as a poor imitation of a Manticore? (At least with how they are ment to look in CoC2)
I'll reiterate not asking anyone to start writing scenes for when someone has a player character with a tailcunt (i'm terrible at writing so don't expect/tell me to do it, i would have a hard time writing anything, even if my life was on the line).
I tried making my player character look like a Manticore for a new game yesterday (by making use of the save editor found on Github), and found it a bit weird that the TF gave me a normal scorpion tail, decided to look up if a tailcunt was planned to be added at some point, and found out that it got removed at some point during last year, when i did not have access to a working pc. Only got myself a working pc earlier this year, after being without one for over a year (And my phone would not have been much use as it was an old iphone 4s)
Now i'm left wondering. What's the point of the Manticore tf, if you are only get to end up as a poor imitation of a Manticore? (At least with how they are ment to look in CoC2)
I'll reiterate not asking anyone to start writing scenes for when someone has a player character with a tailcunt (i'm terrible at writing so don't expect/tell me to do it, i would have a hard time writing anything, even if my life was on the line).
It was removed entirely because nobody utilized it when it was a thing and even when people tried (and so so few did) to it was not enough. Even wings get more than the manticore tail and it's all through flavor text and in-the-field stuff. And considering the "I'm not gonna ask for people to start writing scenes" thing, well like you said, you're a little very late for that. Because now you don't have to worry about that. :U
Plus my explanation for the manticore TF giving you the poor-mans scorpio tail rather than legit one is that even with portal magic you're too much of a pleb to get the actual tail and are just a defunct. This is a joke of mine tho, because we know the champ ain't really a pleb. Lame? Sure, but that just be how it is when people can't actually be bothered to step up when a bounty board for the thing they want opens, and then when the niche content closes out suddenly they go asking for it. It's like... Excuse me where were you DURING it???? (General you being used here btw btw)
Also even without the pussy tail, you STILL TF into a manticore. Sure the key feature to their species is gone for you and you only, but not having a pussy tail doesn't mean you can't look like a manitcore just because you wanna be one.
I'm aware that's the reason it got thrown in the garbage (maybe i should have made that clear in my comment)
But if you just remove it, then why would anyone then bother writing anything for it down the line? (maybe they got into to game after it got removed) It just ends up being a Catch-22.
I would be fine if it was nothing but flavor text, maybe it could just be a tail with a unique description, rather than a tail with a flag (No idea how the game would keep track of it, as i have no knowledge on how the game differentiates between descriptions and flags)
They're clearly never going to. I offered the entire community on the front page of the blog cash money (at an enhanced rate over normal freelance work) to write scenes and we couldn't even get the minimum required to make the TF worth keeping. Sorry.
Because it's not possible for new people to show up down the line, who is willing to write scenes for tailcunts (either because they like that kind of stuff, or they are willing to write it for a commission fee)
A couple of questions, if you don't mind, and if it does not derail the thread too much (have not ready every single page in this thread, so not sure how off topic comments are allowed to get)
1: If one or more people are willing to write enough scenes where tailcunts are used down the line, would you consider adding it back in? (they might not have had time to write anything when you offered cash money, or they might not have known about CoC2 when you did)
2: Could it not just have been turned into a tail with a unique description (maybe two, or three variations), but without any tail flags for the game to keep track of, and not have any functions, like some of the tails already in the game, maybe it could serve a function in combat as a way to deal blunt damage?
If number 2 is a possibility, then i might be willing to have a crack at it (granted it's not something i would be able to do overnight), as it seems to be simple enough (for someone like me), when compared to having to write multiple scenes where it's used (I do have ideas for some scenes, and i'm sure i could come up with more. However i know that i would never be able to write them with the quality required)
Lone Wolf115
Well-Known Member
I don't like that the daggers are throwable why are they anyway? When you get access to the torii gate you don't end up in the ways between eventhough the scene says a white flash or light envelops you're still standing there, I feel awkward just standing there afterwards I know people would rather that because you would just go back down but still what if you go back down to Hawkethorne to unload stuff sell and store.
In universe? I'd imagine it is because daggers are inferior to pretty much everything else as battlefield melee weapons, even more of a last resort sidearm than swords. So throwing is the only way you can make them work as your main weapon, unless you grapple every opponent first or your name is Thorfinn.
In game having the throwable flag is a major advantage for any weapon that does, since it makes the whole range of warrior, thief and ranger moves available for you. So maybe they were buffed that way to allow thiefs to keep to them as their iconic class weapons, while still allowing short swords to be better in certain ways.
Lone Wolf115
Well-Known Member
You lost me on Thorfinn. I'm in a ass end of Tennessee which I do not like so I watch fucking antenna TV no comedy central or adult swim so you're gonna have to educate me.
When I have a thief character I use short swords I mainly use warrior.
I'm not biting your head off I'm just in a bad mood at the moment.
Seems a bit harsh, i can kinda understand why you did it with the ability for the player character to become a centaur (or any kind of taur for that matter).
Guess i can add another gripe i have with CoC2.
Content can, and have been seemingly permanently cut from the game, not because it's breaking any rules, or because it threatens the financial stability of the game, but because there was not enough satisfactory content being made to support it, within a timeframe and/or a specific moment at Savin's discretion.
At the end of the day it's your game, and you can do whatever the hell you want with it. Including to reveal at the end that the entire game was just a giant sitcom, with more canned laughter than you can shake a stick at. (and the only thing i can do is give my feedback on it.)
Well, look at it this way.
Adding something just for a chance of someone writing for it would just lead to unused content bloat. Already in game we have a problem with stuff like double dick characters not even having their secondery dick mentioned, much less used. Or bimbo personality being something that almost no one here writes for.
But since they are in the game, there is expectation on the writers part for using them for different or specific scenes. Which not only makes more theoretical workload for the authors (not even considering the characters specific parsers).It also creates the sense of pointlessness from players end in the worse case. If they never notice any kind of mention of their specific appendage/personality... As in, them feeling like what their champion is does not matter since it never gets brought up.
And only having those things used in a blue moon just seem, as said, unproductive and sending a wrong a message. Since then you also create precedent for other similar things like double vaginas and other personalities. Stuff that is there just in case someone is going to use it. And precedent that people are going to write for it. Just expectation on top of already existing ones.
Adding something just for a chance of someone writing for it would just lead to unused content bloat. Already in game we have a problem with stuff like double dick characters not even having their secondery dick mentioned, much less used. Or bimbo personality being something that almost no one here writes for.
But since they are in the game, there is expectation on the writers part for using them for different or specific scenes. Which not only makes more theoretical workload for the authors (not even considering the characters specific parsers).It also creates the sense of pointlessness from players end in the worse case. If they never notice any kind of mention of their specific appendage/personality... As in, them feeling like what their champion is does not matter since it never gets brought up.
And only having those things used in a blue moon just seem, as said, unproductive and sending a wrong a message. Since then you also create precedent for other similar things like double vaginas and other personalities. Stuff that is there just in case someone is going to use it. And precedent that people are going to write for it. Just expectation on top of already existing ones.
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No worries, friend, you arent being rude or anything of sorts. I hope your day will get better.
I can definitely empathize with having no ability to conveniently view or read all the cool stuff people are talking about. I still can't always scale my consumption all the way down to what I can easily afford, and so occassionally roam the freeboting waters.
Anyhow, Thorfinn is this angry lad
He is one of the main characters of a great shonen manga I have been reading on and off for the last couple years. His signature weapons are pretty much what I imagine an effective dagger fighter is wielding in CoC2.
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Lone Wolf115
Well-Known Member
Thanks but I'm pretty sure my life will be infested with these episodes of anger and sadness. Here's why.No worries, friend, you arent being rude or anything of sorts. I hope your day will get better.
I can definitely empathize with having no ability to conveniently view or read all the cool stuff people are talking about. I still can't always scale my consumption all the way down to what I can easily afford, and so occassionally roam the freeboting waters.
Anyhow, Thorfinn is this angry lad
He is one of the main characters of a great shonen manga I have been reading on and off for the last couple years. His signature weapons are pretty much what I imagine an effective dagger fighter is wielding in CoC2.
Thanks for the information to.
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The lack of choice kinda bugs me.
I feel like there's not really much that I can do in the game atm that makes it feel personal.
Like with Kas. You can romance her, which gets you access to a bunch of her scenes and personality expressed through said scenes, or you can not romance her and get...Basically nothing. It's barely a choice.
Idk if more player agency is something that will come with further updates or if I'm just over expecting, but it'd be nice to have a reason to have different characters or replay besides seeing one off scenes.
I feel like there's not really much that I can do in the game atm that makes it feel personal.
Like with Kas. You can romance her, which gets you access to a bunch of her scenes and personality expressed through said scenes, or you can not romance her and get...Basically nothing. It's barely a choice.
Idk if more player agency is something that will come with further updates or if I'm just over expecting, but it'd be nice to have a reason to have different characters or replay besides seeing one off scenes.
You're right in that "player agency" (however we're defining this) is somewhat limited. However, that's just how games like this must work, especially with different chunks of content being written by different people.
If you're engaging with a story, like Kas per your example, but at every turn you say "fuck off," then naturally you won't get much in return. Don't think of it as being punished for your choice, or that it's a weighted one. If you're playing a character that just straight up wants to kick her ass and hear no objections, why would you miss the romance path?
As nice as it would be to have more dialogue options or personalities factored in, the cooperative patchwork nature of the games' content makes it nigh impossible unless you had a lead or two dedicating all of their time to tying it all together perfectly. It's the same reason they decided against non-bipedal TF's for PC's, because if you put that in, now all the writers have to go back through every scene in the game and make sure everything lines up. The non sex scenes alone would be a nightmare.
That said, where "agency" does become more of a prickly issue is within certain content, most notably (in my opinion) the Kitsune. I haven't gone back and checked if full corruption changes anything there, but generally speaking your PC's dialogue and mindset for the vast majority of the Kitsune content is "bumbling, naive, but well-meaning foreigner." I can't recall any point where you're able to point at a facet of the culture that your character might take issue with (though please remind me if I'm wrong), and seem to just accept everything as "it is what it is." Of course, the alternative here is to say "Just don't engage with the Kitsune content," but there are far too many abilities and items tied to them for that to be a reasonable stance to take. I'm fine with ignoring small content chunks that I don't care for, but the Kitsune are far bigger than them.
What I suspect, and the reason why there's no personality scores or many dialogue options in conversations, is that the PC is a pre-defined character. Your name, your race, your class, your background (not 100% on this), are all just personal touches, nothing more. If we read and play the game that way, it makes a lot more sense. Rather than "Wow my PC is having personality whiplash between all this content," it's more that the character is put in different scenarios every time and that's how it plays out.
Eh, I'm not saying you would miss the romance path, but you would miss out on a substantial chunk of character development for one of the most important members of the game and a bunch of lewd content for basically no payoff. There's a large middle ground in between a single path and a billion permutations.
Just going with my example, being rewarded by the gods for not fraternizing with Kas would be something that could fit in nicely in the current plotline, or more likely being punished/shunned by them for romancing her. I'd think that its not a huge stretch to say that there's a lot of people that would look unkindly on someone who spends a bunch of time making googly eyes at someone who wants to conquer the world, and atm we don't really get any of that.
A high corruption character doesn't really have any differences from a low corruption character, your companions don't really have any input or objections to anything you do, etc. To reference CoC 1, just the basic idea of mutually exclusive companions made for a character that felt like choices had been made with consequences that were unique to them.
And I do understand that at least some of our companions have/will have different endpoints, so we'll have some amount of that kind of stuff down the line, but as it stands it feels lacking in that area.
I agree with the way MC acts like a fool to the Kitsune culture, personally when I had found Miko was pregnant I certainly wouldn't of stood there and took her grandmothers shit. But it's just a game, and I'm here for the shagging tbh.
The way i see it there are at least 4 ways of dealing with content bloat
1: The way Savin have decided to go about it, Nuke any content that's a just a bit too niche from orbit, before it leads to bloat.
And at that point, why would anyone write, or commission anything they think would end up being too much of a niche. As it would just end up being a waste of time and/or money. (If Savin wants to remove content for good, if it's not mainstream enough for the audience who played CoC2 at the time, that's up to them)
2: Take content that's a bit too much of a niche, out of the game, and put it in "storage", and only bring it back out, and into the game if and/or when it's no longer too much of a niche. (could end up being indefinitely in "storage")
This is how i would have preferred Savin to deal with niche content, before it leads to bloat. (Granted there will always be some content in the game that's the most "niche", of what's kept around.)
3: Keep niche content in the game, keeping an eye on it from time to time and only doing something about it, once the game starts to show signs of having content bloat.
This would keep most of the players happy, but you have to be careful to not let content bloat get out of hand, before it bogs everything down. (And you might miss your chance to do something about it, or you might have to delay adding new content that people have been waiting for, in order to get rid of unused/very niche content to stop a bloat from happing)
4: Keep adding niche content, forget about it/hope someone else deals with it, and only do something about it, once the content bloat have reached critical mass, and it's causing the game/program problems (slowing the game down. Or in the worst case, making the game crash.)
It's easy for number 3 to end up as number 4, so i understand why Savin decides to nip content bloat in the bud, long before it's going to be a problem.
My gripe is that Savin is taking content, that has been deemed too niche out back and puts it down for good. (at that time, none of us knows how the CoC2 community is going to change over time, and by extension what is considered to be niche)
Pretty sure the only content that has been completely removed from CoC2 after being added was the manticore TF tailpussy, which was barely used for anything. Even the little content that double-dicks have is more than it had.
Even though the degree of her attachment to you and some of your more romantic gestures towards her seem to catch Kas offguard from time to time, your relationship develops strictly on her terms. So you can go along with her whims which leads to her opening up a bit; you can try and for the most part fail to pump her for information while keeping your distance; or you can refuse to trust a literal demon and take seriously your mission of stemming the tide of soulless rapists that threatens to swallow everything around you.
The content that you have described is actually something that we are likely to get at some point. Both in terms of various characters rewarding your stalwart opposition to Kas and in terms of your positive relationship with her being a source of conflict.
Both the somewhat inconsistent tone of Campion's 'voice' in dialogue and the limited application of specifc blurbs for the two alternative personalities (Bimbo and Dark Knight) are inevitable drawbacks of the game's mode of development. Personally, as long as the thrust of what's being said is consistent with how the dialogue option is decribed before you pick it, I don't mind the extra work of changing it in my head to better suit a particular character.
It's when your character swerves too far in the dialogue or his choice of actions isn't granular enough that it starts seriously bothering me. Like when you start from searching the kitsune-den-turned-crypt and then go straight to looting everything not nailed down without being able to back out of it. Or when you have to choose between killing a mother tearfully pleading for her daughters' lives or letting her live and continue to kidnap and rape people on the sly with impunity.
I'd like to correct you on the subject of kitsune interactions, as you have asked. The Forest Kitsune dialogue options allow the Champ to question their xenophobia/isolationism (Hinata just waves it away and grumbles, somewhat understandably) s well as their vampirism (Hinata is actually speaking in even harsher terms than the Champ when describing that practice). It's when you are on friendly terms with them and a guest in their home that you don't get many options to harshly or even diplomatically yet firmly call out any of their customs and behaviours into question as BS.
You can't really try to convince them of anything also, both because of how up their own ass they are and because you have little to offer them atm. Neither can you, AFAIK, after getting fed up with them at any point, slap your metaphorical dick onto the table and tell them in no uncertain terms that they are incorrigible assholes who need to be yeeted from the Marches ASAP unless they reconsider most of their stances on things and start providing value for their neighbours. Maybe after you get your own lands, some political support from other local leaders, some troops and a ballista or two to your name you will be able to engage in either type of dimplomacy. Edit: Hell, borrow a longboat from the orcs or the frost elves, strap those balistae to it, log slide it to their tree and finally achieve true gunboat diplomacy.
From the corruption angle. the situation is even less satisfying right now. You currently can't even begin making any long terms plans to sabotage and subvert their den, despite it being one of the most direct and prominent strongholds of the Seven in the area, with a portal that can lead an army right to the doorstep of your (or more likely Kas's) newly created Evil Empire of Fuckery. Your kitsune companion and both versions of your kitsune daughter are also unlikely to follow you down the pass of corruption, and can't become corrupted themselves through any available means. So I have no idea what are the plans for them when(if) the Corruption Train will finally leave the station and the whole of your party gets on board. As a side note, I also have a hard time guessing what are the plans for Azy in that route, other then her leaving.
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True that. However it is somewhat discouraging to hear that such decisions are final. Which means that if you find out about a feature like that way later and ask Savin whether or not writing/commissioning X new scenes and Y forks for existing scenes will be enough for him to reconsider, the answer will still be "No".
Double dicks have tons of content in existing scenes. What they don't have many of are scenes that are inaccessible without two dicks.
Agreed, there's always a bit of rearrangement of dialogue that goes on in your head to fit with whatever character you're trying to play with games like this. It helps when you know what the general vibe of the game is and can make a character that fits within it, so that the dissonance isn't too jarring.
I'm not entirely sure who you're referring to here, I'm guessing either the Alraune or Azzy's queen (I forget her name, have only done her quest once.) The Alraune choice is particularly odd since she IS corrupt, but not a demon, yet you're given the option to kill her. Yet, later on when the full-fledged demon kitty merchant shows up at the fort, your options are "fuck yes," "only if you behave," or "no fuck off." This is probably another multi-writer issue, but the PC's mercy is rather inconsistent it seems.
Fair enough, I actually rarely bump into the Forest group these days, so I had forgotten about them altogether.
It's especially bizarre given how we are named the Champion of the Winter City and given a noble title and the Fort/the land around it, which borders the Kitsune den on both sides, and there's no mention of this from PC to Kitsune.
They are, quite literally, imperialist colonizers, added with all the xenophobia and superiority complex of Japanese culture. They basically admit as such as well, if I'm remembering right. It's even more ridiculous given that you can Hulk Smash your way through the front doors and shitstomp every remotely powerful fighter in the Den including the Matron herself, and not only do they still act high and mighty, but you keep acting like a dumb foreigner tourist.
Now, this might be because becoming Champion of Winter City/owner of the Fort came after the vast majority of the Kitsune content was implemented. If so, I hope that at some point we get some back-content that addresses this, and lets us take a more standoffish or outright hostile position towards them. Also I want to clarify that I don't hate or even dislike the Kitsune content. It's overall pretty good, and the characters are solid; Keros is fun, and Kurako is best fox. I just dislike the way we interact with most of them.
I understand that it's something that may be improved in the future, I did mention it after all, I'm just speaking in terms of now.
But, mind you, that was just an example, just one I think is obvious considering Kas is a major part of the game. I think tglhe general issue of content being binary, where the only choice is the guided path or basically not engaging with the content at all, is spread throughout the game.
Heck, even in your description of attitudes you can kinda take towards Kas, the only things that are important in game boil down to whether or not you banged her, and that's it. And only one of those two directions has any development attached to it right now.
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