Your gripes with CoC II

[Mogrir]

The lack of choice kinda bugs me.
I feel like there's not really much that I can do in the game atm that makes it feel personal.

Like with Kas. You can romance her, which gets you access to a bunch of her scenes and personality expressed through said scenes, or you can not romance her and get...Basically nothing. It's barely a choice.

Idk if more player agency is something that will come with further updates or if I'm just over expecting, but it'd be nice to have a reason to have different characters or replay besides seeing one off scenes.

You're right in that "player agency" (however we're defining this) is somewhat limited. However, that's just how games like this must work, especially with different chunks of content being written by different people.

If you're engaging with a story, like Kas per your example, but at every turn you say "fuck off," then naturally you won't get much in return. Don't think of it as being punished for your choice, or that it's a weighted one. If you're playing a character that just straight up wants to kick her ass and hear no objections, why would you miss the romance path?

As nice as it would be to have more dialogue options or personalities factored in, the cooperative patchwork nature of the games' content makes it nigh impossible unless you had a lead or two dedicating all of their time to tying it all together perfectly. It's the same reason they decided against non-bipedal TF's for PC's, because if you put that in, now all the writers have to go back through every scene in the game and make sure everything lines up. The non sex scenes alone would be a nightmare.

That said, where "agency" does become more of a prickly issue is within certain content, most notably (in my opinion) the Kitsune. I haven't gone back and checked if full corruption changes anything there, but generally speaking your PC's dialogue and mindset for the vast majority of the Kitsune content is "bumbling, naive, but well-meaning foreigner." I can't recall any point where you're able to point at a facet of the culture that your character might take issue with (though please remind me if I'm wrong), and seem to just accept everything as "it is what it is." Of course, the alternative here is to say "Just don't engage with the Kitsune content," but there are far too many abilities and items tied to them for that to be a reasonable stance to take. I'm fine with ignoring small content chunks that I don't care for, but the Kitsune are far bigger than them.

What I suspect, and the reason why there's no personality scores or many dialogue options in conversations, is that the PC is a pre-defined character. Your name, your race, your class, your background (not 100% on this), are all just personal touches, nothing more. If we read and play the game that way, it makes a lot more sense. Rather than "Wow my PC is having personality whiplash between all this content," it's more that the character is put in different scenarios every time and that's how it plays out.

 

[Skandranon]

You're right in that "player agency" (however we're defining this) is somewhat limited. However, that's just how games like this must work, especially with different chunks of content being written by different people.

If you're engaging with a story, like Kas per your example, but at every turn you say "fuck off," then naturally you won't get much in return. Don't think of it as being punished for your choice, or that it's a weighted one. If you're playing a character that just straight up wants to kick her ass and hear no objections, why would you miss the romance path?

Eh, I'm not saying you would miss the romance path, but you would miss out on a substantial chunk of character development for one of the most important members of the game and a bunch of lewd content for basically no payoff. There's a large middle ground in between a single path and a billion permutations.

Just going with my example, being rewarded by the gods for not fraternizing with Kas would be something that could fit in nicely in the current plotline, or more likely being punished/shunned by them for romancing her. I'd think that its not a huge stretch to say that there's a lot of people that would look unkindly on someone who spends a bunch of time making googly eyes at someone who wants to conquer the world, and atm we don't really get any of that.

A high corruption character doesn't really have any differences from a low corruption character, your companions don't really have any input or objections to anything you do, etc. To reference CoC 1, just the basic idea of mutually exclusive companions made for a character that felt like choices had been made with consequences that were unique to them.

And I do understand that at least some of our companions have/will have different endpoints, so we'll have some amount of that kind of stuff down the line, but as it stands it feels lacking in that area.

 

[SmithEK]

I agree with the way MC acts like a fool to the Kitsune culture, personally when I had found Miko was pregnant I certainly wouldn't of stood there and took her grandmothers shit. But it's just a game, and I'm here for the shagging tbh.

 

[Unoriginal Name.404]

Adding something just for a chance of someone writing for it would just lead to unused content bloat. Already in game we have a problem with stuff like double dick characters not even having their secondery dick mentioned, much less used. Or bimbo personality being something that almost no one here writes for.

The way i see it there are at least 4 ways of dealing with content bloat

1: The way Savin have decided to go about it, Nuke any content that's a just a bit too niche from orbit, before it leads to bloat.

And at that point, why would anyone write, or commission anything they think would end up being too much of a niche. As it would just end up being a waste of time and/or money. (If Savin wants to remove content for good, if it's not mainstream enough for the audience who played CoC2 at the time, that's up to them)


2: Take content that's a bit too much of a niche, out of the game, and put it in "storage", and only bring it back out, and into the game if and/or when it's no longer too much of a niche. (could end up being indefinitely in "storage")

This is how i would have preferred Savin to deal with niche content, before it leads to bloat. (Granted there will always be some content in the game that's the most "niche", of what's kept around.)


3: Keep niche content in the game, keeping an eye on it from time to time and only doing something about it, once the game starts to show signs of having content bloat.

This would keep most of the players happy, but you have to be careful to not let content bloat get out of hand, before it bogs everything down. (And you might miss your chance to do something about it, or you might have to delay adding new content that people have been waiting for, in order to get rid of unused/very niche content to stop a bloat from happing)


4: Keep adding niche content, forget about it/hope someone else deals with it, and only do something about it, once the content bloat have reached critical mass, and it's causing the game/program problems (slowing the game down. Or in the worst case, making the game crash.)

It's easy for number 3 to end up as number 4, so i understand why Savin decides to nip content bloat in the bud, long before it's going to be a problem.


My gripe is that Savin is taking content, that has been deemed too niche out back and puts it down for good. (at that time, none of us knows how the CoC2 community is going to change over time, and by extension what is considered to be niche)

 

[kiby]

Pretty sure the only content that has been completely removed from CoC2 after being added was the manticore TF tailpussy, which was barely used for anything. Even the little content that double-dicks have is more than it had.

 

[Burnerbro]

Eh, I'm not saying you would miss the romance path, but you would miss out on a substantial chunk of character development for one of the most important members of the game and a bunch of lewd content for basically no payoff. There's a large middle ground in between a single path and a billion permutations.

Just going with my example, being rewarded by the gods for not fraternizing with Kas would be something that could fit in nicely in the current plotline, or more likely being punished/shunned by them for romancing her. I'd think that its not a huge stretch to say that there's a lot of people that would look unkindly on someone who spends a bunch of time making googly eyes at someone who wants to conquer the world, and atm we don't really get any of that.

Even though the degree of her attachment to you and some of your more romantic gestures towards her seem to catch Kas offguard from time to time, your relationship develops strictly on her terms. So you can go along with her whims which leads to her opening up a bit; you can try and for the most part fail to pump her for information while keeping your distance; or you can refuse to trust a literal demon and take seriously your mission of stemming the tide of soulless rapists that threatens to swallow everything around you.

The content that you have described is actually something that we are likely to get at some point. Both in terms of various characters rewarding your stalwart opposition to Kas and in terms of your positive relationship with her being a source of conflict.

That said, where "agency" does become more of a prickly issue is within certain content, most notably (in my opinion) the Kitsune. I haven't gone back and checked if full corruption changes anything there, but generally speaking your PC's dialogue and mindset for the vast majority of the Kitsune content is "bumbling, naive, but well-meaning foreigner." I can't recall any point where you're able to point at a facet of the culture that your character might take issue with (though please remind me if I'm wrong), and seem to just accept everything as "it is what it is." Of course, the alternative here is to say "Just don't engage with the Kitsune content," but there are far too many abilities and items tied to them for that to be a reasonable stance to take. I'm fine with ignoring small content chunks that I don't care for, but the Kitsune are far bigger than them.

What I suspect, and the reason why there's no personality scores or many dialogue options in conversations, is that the PC is a pre-defined character. Your name, your race, your class, your background (not 100% on this), are all just personal touches, nothing more. If we read and play the game that way, it makes a lot more sense. Rather than "Wow my PC is having personality whiplash between all this content," it's more that the character is put in different scenarios every time and that's how it plays out.

Both the somewhat inconsistent tone of Campion's 'voice' in dialogue and the limited application of specifc blurbs for the two alternative personalities (Bimbo and Dark Knight) are inevitable drawbacks of the game's mode of development. Personally, as long as the thrust of what's being said is consistent with how the dialogue option is decribed before you pick it, I don't mind the extra work of changing it in my head to better suit a particular character.

It's when your character swerves too far in the dialogue or his choice of actions isn't granular enough that it starts seriously bothering me. Like when you start from searching the kitsune-den-turned-crypt and then go straight to looting everything not nailed down without being able to back out of it. Or when you have to choose between killing a mother tearfully pleading for her daughters' lives or letting her live and continue to kidnap and rape people on the sly with impunity.

I'd like to correct you on the subject of kitsune interactions, as you have asked. The Forest Kitsune dialogue options allow the Champ to question their xenophobia/isolationism (Hinata just waves it away and grumbles, somewhat understandably) s well as their vampirism (Hinata is actually speaking in even harsher terms than the Champ when describing that practice). It's when you are on friendly terms with them and a guest in their home that you don't get many options to harshly or even diplomatically yet firmly call out any of their customs and behaviours into question as BS.

You can't really try to convince them of anything also, both because of how up their own ass they are and because you have little to offer them atm. Neither can you, AFAIK, after getting fed up with them at any point, slap your metaphorical dick onto the table and tell them in no uncertain terms that they are incorrigible assholes who need to be yeeted from the Marches ASAP unless they reconsider most of their stances on things and start providing value for their neighbours. Maybe after you get your own lands, some political support from other local leaders, some troops and a ballista or two to your name you will be able to engage in either type of dimplomacy. Edit: Hell, borrow a longboat from the orcs or the frost elves, strap those balistae to it, log slide it to their tree and finally achieve true gunboat diplomacy.

From the corruption angle. the situation is even less satisfying right now. You currently can't even begin making any long terms plans to sabotage and subvert their den, despite it being one of the most direct and prominent strongholds of the Seven in the area, with a portal that can lead an army right to the doorstep of your (or more likely Kas's) newly created Evil Empire of Fuckery. Your kitsune companion and both versions of your kitsune daughter are also unlikely to follow you down the pass of corruption, and can't become corrupted themselves through any available means. So I have no idea what are the plans for them when(if) the Corruption Train will finally leave the station and the whole of your party gets on board. As a side note, I also have a hard time guessing what are the plans for Azy in that route, other then her leaving.

 

[Burnerbro]

Pretty sure the only content that has been completely removed from CoC2 after being added was the manticore TF tailpussy, which was barely used for anything. Even the little content that double-dicks have is more than it had.

True that. However it is somewhat discouraging to hear that such decisions are final. Which means that if you find out about a feature like that way later and ask Savin whether or not writing/commissioning X new scenes and Y forks for existing scenes will be enough for him to reconsider, the answer will still be "No".

 

[Alypia]

Pretty sure the only content that has been completely removed from CoC2 after being added was the manticore TF tailpussy, which was barely used for anything. Even the little content that double-dicks have is more than it had.

Double dicks have tons of content in existing scenes. What they don't have many of are scenes that are inaccessible without two dicks.

 

[Mogrir]

Both the somewhat inconsistent tone of Campion's 'voice' in dialogue and the limited application of specifc blurbs for the two alternative personalities (Bimbo and Dark Knight) are inevitable drawbacks of the game's mode of development. Personally, as long as the thrust of what's being said is consistent with how the dialogue option is decribed before you pick it, I don't mind the extra work of changing it in my head to better suit a particular character.

Agreed, there's always a bit of rearrangement of dialogue that goes on in your head to fit with whatever character you're trying to play with games like this. It helps when you know what the general vibe of the game is and can make a character that fits within it, so that the dissonance isn't too jarring.

It's when your character swerves too far in the dialogue or his choice of actions isn't granular enough that it starts seriously bothering me. Like when you start from searching the kitsune-den-turned-crypt and then go straight to looting everything not nailed down without being able to back out of it. Or when you have to choose between killing a mother tearfully pleading for her daughters' lives or letting her live and continue to kidnap and rape people on the sly with impunity.

I'm not entirely sure who you're referring to here, I'm guessing either the Alraune or Azzy's queen (I forget her name, have only done her quest once.) The Alraune choice is particularly odd since she IS corrupt, but not a demon, yet you're given the option to kill her. Yet, later on when the full-fledged demon kitty merchant shows up at the fort, your options are "fuck yes," "only if you behave," or "no fuck off." This is probably another multi-writer issue, but the PC's mercy is rather inconsistent it seems.

I'd like to correct you on the subject of kitsune interactions, as you have asked. The Forest Kitsune dialogue options allow the Champ to question their xenophobia/isolationism (Hinata just waves it away and grumbles, somewhat understandably) s well as their vampirism (Hinata is actually speaking in even harsher terms than the Champ when describing that practice). It's when you are on friendly terms with them and a guest in their home that you don't get many options to harshly or even diplomatically yet firmly call out any of their customs and behaviours into question as BS.

Fair enough, I actually rarely bump into the Forest group these days, so I had forgotten about them altogether.

You can't really try to convince them of anything also, both because of how up their own ass they are and because you have little to offer them atm. Neither can you, AFAIK, after getting fed up with them at any point, slap your metaphorical dick onto the table and tell them in no uncertain terms that they are incorrigible assholes who need to be yeeted from the Marches ASAP unless they reconsider most of their stances on things and start providing value for their neighbours. Maybe after you get your own lands, some political support from other local leaders, some troops and a ballista or two to your name you will be able to engage in either type of dimplomacy. Edit: Hell, borrow a longboat from the orcs or the frost elves, strap those balistae to it, log slide it to their tree and finally achieve true gunboat diplomacy.

It's especially bizarre given how we are named the Champion of the Winter City and given a noble title and the Fort/the land around it, which borders the Kitsune den on both sides, and there's no mention of this from PC to Kitsune.

They are, quite literally, imperialist colonizers, added with all the xenophobia and superiority complex of Japanese culture. They basically admit as such as well, if I'm remembering right. It's even more ridiculous given that you can Hulk Smash your way through the front doors and shitstomp every remotely powerful fighter in the Den including the Matron herself, and not only do they still act high and mighty, but you keep acting like a dumb foreigner tourist.

Now, this might be because becoming Champion of Winter City/owner of the Fort came after the vast majority of the Kitsune content was implemented. If so, I hope that at some point we get some back-content that addresses this, and lets us take a more standoffish or outright hostile position towards them. Also I want to clarify that I don't hate or even dislike the Kitsune content. It's overall pretty good, and the characters are solid; Keros is fun, and Kurako is best fox. I just dislike the way we interact with most of them.

 

[Skandranon]

Even though the degree of her attachment to you and some of your more romantic gestures towards her seem to catch Kas offguard from time to time, your relationship develops strictly on her terms. So you can go along with her whims which leads to her opening up a bit; you can try and for the most part fail to pump her for information while keeping your distance; or you can refuse to trust a literal demon and take seriously your mission of stemming the tide of soulless rapists that threatens to swallow everything around you.

The content that you have described is actually something that we are likely to get at some point. Both in terms of various characters rewarding your stalwart opposition to Kas and in terms of your positive relationship with her being a source of conflict.

I understand that it's something that may be improved in the future, I did mention it after all, I'm just speaking in terms of now.

But, mind you, that was just an example, just one I think is obvious considering Kas is a major part of the game. I think tglhe general issue of content being binary, where the only choice is the guided path or basically not engaging with the content at all, is spread throughout the game.

Heck, even in your description of attitudes you can kinda take towards Kas, the only things that are important in game boil down to whether or not you banged her, and that's it. And only one of those two directions has any development attached to it right now.

 

[Tide Hunter]

I'm not entirely sure who you're referring to here, I'm guessing either the Alraune or Azzy's queen (I forget her name, have only done her quest once.) The Alraune choice is particularly odd since she IS corrupt, but not a demon, yet you're given the option to kill her. Yet, later on when the full-fledged demon kitty merchant shows up at the fort, your options are "fuck yes," "only if you behave," or "no fuck off." This is probably another multi-writer issue, but the PC's mercy is rather inconsistent it seems.

The thing is, the Alraune is practically a demon, while the demon merchant is practically not a demon. The Alraune came into existence because of Kas, was instructed by Kas, and basically only knew to do what Kas told her to. This resulted in her essentially being a mass-rape demon, despite not technically being a demon, and she violates many innocents. Farrah, the previously catfolk demon, is not evil. She has not committed any evil act, no rape, no murder, no theft. She has no desire to take souls, as she has no use for them, and she has no reason or want to bring corruption. She was raped by Kasyrra while she was traveling on a road, her soul forcefully taken from her while she was in a daze. She shows no hostility to the Champ even though the Champ's first reaction is to pull a weapon on her, unlike the Alraune who's first interaction was to attack the party, and when the Champ makes clear that they don't want Farrah's presence, she flees, rather than attacking. I'd guess that even if the Champ tried to attack, she'd just flee immediately.

Basically, the Alraune acts like a demon, committing heinous acts on mass numbers of innocents, while Farrah does not act like a demon, she's just an innocent victim who got caught in the crossfire. She has no victims of her own, and she holds no desire to, as she mostly just wants to continue trading like she used to. The Alraune can be seen as too far gone, a danger with an extreme likelihood of bringing further harm should she be left alive. Farrah is not an extreme danger, and she's not too far gone, despite the demonhood.

 

[Lone Wolf115]

The thing is, the Alraune is practically a demon, while the demon merchant is practically not a demon. The Alraune came into existence because of Kas, was instructed by Kas, and basically only knew to do what Kas told her to. This resulted in her essentially being a mass-rape demon, despite not technically being a demon, and she violates many innocents. Farrah, the previously catfolk demon, is not evil. She has not committed any evil act, no rape, no murder, no theft. She has no desire to take souls, as she has no use for them, and she has no reason or want to bring corruption. She was raped by Kasyrra while she was traveling on a road, her soul forcefully taken from her while she was in a daze. She shows no hostility to the Champ even though the Champ's first reaction is to pull a weapon on her, unlike the Alraune who's first interaction was to attack the party, and when the Champ makes clear that they don't want Farrah's presence, she flees, rather than attacking. I'd guess that even if the Champ tried to attack, she'd just flee immediately.

Basically, the Alraune acts like a demon, committing heinous acts on mass numbers of innocents, while Farrah does not act like a demon, she's just an innocent victim who got caught in the crossfire. She has no victims of her own, and she holds no desire to, as she mostly just wants to continue trading like she used to. The Alraune can be seen as too far gone, a danger with an extreme likelihood of bringing further harm should she be left alive. Farrah is not an extreme danger, and she's not too far gone, despite the demonhood.

I thought Kas saved the Alraune from the blizzard by pumping her full of cum and turning her into a demon in the process.

 

[Mogrir]

The thing is, the Alraune is practically a demon, while the demon merchant is practically not a demon. The Alraune came into existence because of Kas, was instructed by Kas, and basically only knew to do what Kas told her to. This resulted in her essentially being a mass-rape demon, despite not technically being a demon, and she violates many innocents. Farrah, the previously catfolk demon, is not evil. She has not committed any evil act, no rape, no murder, no theft. She has no desire to take souls, as she has no use for them, and she has no reason or want to bring corruption. She was raped by Kasyrra while she was traveling on a road, her soul forcefully taken from her while she was in a daze. She shows no hostility to the Champ even though the Champ's first reaction is to pull a weapon on her, unlike the Alraune who's first interaction was to attack the party, and when the Champ makes clear that they don't want Farrah's presence, she flees, rather than attacking. I'd guess that even if the Champ tried to attack, she'd just flee immediately.

Basically, the Alraune acts like a demon, committing heinous acts on mass numbers of innocents, while Farrah does not act like a demon, she's just an innocent victim who got caught in the crossfire. She has no victims of her own, and she holds no desire to, as she mostly just wants to continue trading like she used to. The Alraune can be seen as too far gone, a danger with an extreme likelihood of bringing further harm should she be left alive. Farrah is not an extreme danger, and she's not too far gone, despite the demonhood.

Not entirely true, though. Alraune was alive before Kas, but was weak and near death iirc, and Kas promised her power for her soul, though she never collected on the soul bit and just buggered off. Still heavily corrupted and altered, of course, but saying she only exists because of Kas is a bit misleading. And if you take the "Dominate" path with Alraune, you can pretty clearly see there is a path of redemption open for her if the Champion isn't going the corrupt route themselves.

Farrah, though, is more of a gray area. It seems pretty clear that she'd be happy to turn someone into a demon herself if they want it, but won't force it like it was on her, since she's so fixated on trade and sex. Also, though she states she doesn't quite know what she would do if she did have souls, that to me says that she's not against the idea either. Hell, I've just remembered, if the Alraune is dead and you send Jae'lyn to the Fort after Winter City, she ends up being fully demonic. I wonder who might have caused that final change to happen? :^)

 

[Burnerbro]

I thought Kas saved the Alraune from the blizzard by pumping her full of cum and turning her into a demon in the process.

Yup. Both Alraune and to lesser extent, Queen Nyzerrah can be considered Kasyrrah's victims as she exploited their biological imperatives and traditions respectively before corrupting them and siccing the onto the world - only to seemingly stop caring about them almost immediately, fully consumed by her new, ever bigger schemes. For both the Flower Mom and the Whornet Queen one can also argue that after the transformation their mental capacity and inhibitions were compromised enough to make them incapable of bearing full responsibility for their actions. It certainly made them incapable of clear moral judgement, or of seeing their and their ofsprings' deeds as malicious.

In any case, I'd have been fine with the binary choice of Alraune's fate if later, upon seeing that your mercy is being abused - something the game explicitly brings to the player's attention - you would get an option to confront Alraune and either threaten/reason with her in order to make her stop, or to encourage her, saying that you've come to enjoy her debauchery (or that you may need a plant-girl army of your own).

This is probably another multi-writer issue, but the PC's mercy is rather inconsistent it seems.

The centaur marauder leaders are possibly the most jarring example of this, since you are repeatedly given the option to kill them for attacking you (like everyone else) and being visibly corrupt (which you can be even more so).

 

[Mogrir]

In any case, I'd have been fine with the binary choice of Alraune's fate if later, upon seeing that your mercy is being abused - something the game explicitly brings to the player's attention - you would get an option to confront Alraune and either threaten/reason with her in order to make her stop, or to encourage her, saying that you've come to enjoy her debauchery (or that you may need a plant-girl army of your own).

If we can get just two people to purify the pool of an entire hive's honey and purge pretty much all traces of the corruption from it, I don't see why we can't either do the same for Flower Mom (love this nickname lmao) and her daughters. At the very least, there should be something along the lines of "Hey, you don't even need to be forcing yourselves on people to reproduce, they will literally come to you of their own volition. It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure this was one of the resolutions you could come to with the Sand Witches in CoC1 or some places in TiTS, but I don't remember 100%.

The centaur marauder leaders are possibly the most jarring example of this, since you are repeatedly given the option to kill them for attacking you (like everyone else) and being visibly corrupt (which you can be even more so).

Honestly, there are other characters I would rather snap the necks of than the Centaurs or Alraune, or even the damn Imps. I'm looking at you, Byvernia, quit fucking ambushing me every time I go into the hills. Once per day my ass, one time I bumped into her three times in one day.

 

[Burnerbro]

At the very least, there should be something along the lines of "Hey, you don't even need to be forcing yourselves on people to reproduce, they will literally come to you of their own volition.

I was only half joking earlier when I suggested a direct Kitsune Den - Wayfort Gardens pipeline, heh. 'Cause there are almost no other (techically) non-demonic beings that will be as receptive as Flower Mom and her daughters towards kitsunes' sex for life force scheme. Edit: Or have as much raw vitality to give, judging by their ability to outfuck and outdance the Champ so hard it's frankly embarassing.

For some reason I haven't considered the possibility of completely reversing the Alraune's corruption, and if something like that ever gets implemented it will immediately eliminate my biggest gripe with the game.

 

[Savin]

Hell, I've just remembered, if the Alraune is dead and you send Jae'lyn to the Fort after Winter City, she ends up being fully demonic. I wonder who might have caused that final change to happen? :^)

Considering the state of Jael at that point I maintain that Farrah still did nothing wrong. Not her fault Jael's soul fell out while they were having a quick bone-down.

I'd have been fine with the binary choice of Alraune's fate if later, upon seeing that your mercy is being abused - something the game explicitly brings to the player's attention - you would get an option to confront Alraune and either threaten/reason with her in order to make her stop, or to encourage her, saying that you've come to enjoy her debauchery (or that you may need a plant-girl army of your own).

I'll look into adding something like that. Good idea.

 

[Lone Wolf115]

Considering the state of Jael at that point I maintain that Farrah still did nothing wrong. Not her fault Jael's soul fell out while they were having a quick bone-down.

Yeah you know stuff like that just happens it was a heat of the moment thing.

 

[SmithEK]

Minor gripe but I noticed it's a theme in this game and CoC, that our MC says they love a certain character or a certain NPC says they love you, then the next minute they are off buggering someone else. I just don't feel it's a need to include something as weak as love in a game, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Lone Wolf115]

So the problem is furry parts, you are fine with centaurs but wish less parts of them were like animals.

Have I got a gift for you then...

Spoiler: The Centaur Dilemma

View attachment 17583

No this is the real centaur dilemma.

Spoiler: Actual centaur dilemma

Just my little (horrifying) joke.

 

[Mogrir]

What I really gotta bitch about is the boss fights though. So often I find that myself or party members are getting one-tapped before whoever is tanking has a chance to even get into their stance. Warden Azami is probably the worst with this, but Byvernia and Elf Queen whatshername are pretty bad too. I get why solo encounters give the boss multiple rounds per turn, because it keeps action economy roughly equal, but sometimes this just leads to you getting completely dabbed on with no counter. RNG is RNG, but MAN is it frustrating. Azami in particular tilts me every time because of how often she gets a free Nerves of Steel in the first turn that instantly deletes someone.

It would be less obnoxious if for some godforsaken reason, you only get one "Retry" per encounter before having to do the ENTIRE dungeon all over again unless you're on the last boss.

No, I'm not salty, why do you ask?

 

[SmithEK]

What I really gotta bitch about is the boss fights though. So often I find that myself or party members are getting one-tapped before whoever is tanking has a chance to even get into their stance. Warden Azami is probably the worst with this, but Byvernia and Elf Queen whatshername are pretty bad too. I get why solo encounters give the boss multiple rounds per turn, because it keeps action economy roughly equal, but sometimes this just leads to you getting completely dabbed on with no counter. RNG is RNG, but MAN is it frustrating. Azami in particular tilts me every time because of how often she gets a free Nerves of Steel in the first turn that instantly deletes someone.

It would be less obnoxious if for some godforsaken reason, you only get one "Retry" per encounter before having to do the ENTIRE dungeon all over again unless you're on the last boss.

No, I'm not salty, why do you ask?

With Azami you don't need to fight her if you wait to encounter a group of Kitsunes and either let them feed off you or share your camp supplies before you defeat the alrune plant. With the jewl you get to access Kiyoko in the astral plane and helping the group you get to walk away from Azami.

 

[Burnerbro]

A couple of minors gripes of mine are tied to the initiative and turns mechanics for normal and mini bosses: I don't like how the status effects ticks down with each turn those enemies take instead of each round. The ones that cut their offensive stats remain somewhat effective, but ones that cut into their defences are often gone before you get to attack; thieves are especially buggered by their main damage perk being far less useful.

I'm also bummed up by the absence of 'Wait' option in combat, which makes deliberately setting up chains of abilities that much harder.

 

[Lone Wolf115]

I'm also bummed up by the absence of 'Wait' option in combat, which makes deliberately setting up chains of abilities that much harder.

I th that's the point plus there's people who probably fight with AI companions instead of manual.

 

[Burnerbro]

It would be less obnoxious if for some godforsaken reason, you only get one "Retry" per encounter before having to do the ENTIRE dungeon all over again unless you're on the last boss.

Didn't catch it righ away, but haven't this been reported as a bug and fixed relatively recently?

 

[Alypia]

I'm also bummed up by the absence of 'Wait' option in combat, which makes deliberately setting up chains of abilities that much harder.

There's "Defend".

 

[Animalistic]

There's "Defend".

What they mean by waiting instead of you doing an action the round your turn was given, you have option to delay it to lets say, turn after your allies. Which is different to defend since it takes up your action.

Like this. Lets say we have a combat encounter with A(llies), E(nemies) and C(hampion).

Round start: CEEEAEEA (starting turn order).
Champion chooses to wait: so the turn order turns into EEEACEEA .

So in this scenario, enemies after the champion go first since they chose to wait, then their Ally then champion. This is all by the way I think it would work.

I am not really advocating for this since game already has problem with manual control over entier party just turning game into easy mod. This, while having some obvious risks to it, could still make game even more mind numbing.

Just wanted to explain what they ment.

 

[Rear Admiral Chimera]

I think BurnerBro means delaying their action in the initiative order to act later during the round. Many GMs hate fucking with an established initiative order, and I doubt many coders (and Savin) would want to implement a system that allows such a feature in this game.

 

[Savin]

I'm also bummed up by the absence of 'Wait' option in combat

It's called "Defend." It's just Wait but lets you live, too.

 

[Burnerbro]

As others have described, 'Wait' would set the turn of a party member back on the initiative order, partially or all the way, so you can trade getting dunked on for the first part of the combat round for more reliable combo setups. It has been my favorite tactical flourish ever since playing HoMM 3 as a wee baby. And without spacial maneuvering it isn't anywhere near as broken when used against AI.

As a side note, 'Defend' action is currently bugged, so if a character uses it twice in a row you skip your turn on the second go without keeping the defense buff. Made a report some time ago.

(Edit: I gree with the point made below by TH that 'Ready' will work better as a name, avoiding unnecessary confusion)