Your gripes with CoC II

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Undecided

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Feb 16, 2021
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I'm not sure how this issue ties back to the start of your problem here of "tfing back"
Especially since Wyld Wine gives the wyld mark, too

I'd imagine that was a misinterpretation by the OP of whether the Wyld Mark TF's that the PC acquires are factored in when classifying the PC as a Chimera or not.
As it stands, the Wyld Mark TF's don't affect the PC's classification in any way (as in won't refer to them as a Chimera), which means that if a female Wyld Elf PC was to have wings from the Dove Wings Wyld Mark, Hashat would still recognize them as a pure female Elf.

Although the OP would technically be right about one of the Wyld Marks (although not with the Chimera classification) affecting Hashat's ability to recognize a femme Wyld Elf PC as a pure Elf female.
The interaction in question is: A female Wyld Elf PC which has acquired the Horse Cock Wyld Mark will no longer be recognized by Hashat as a pure Elf female (which makes sense due to fact that a female Wyld Elf PC that acquires the Horse Cock Wyld Mark would be classified as a "shemale" and lose their vagina in order to acquire said Horse Cock - although that is notably a bit inconsistent with Fritte being a "hermaphrodite" and seemingly also having the Horse Cock Wyld Mark...).

Which does sort of beg the question as to why Hashat is so interested in Etheryn, but not equally interested in a femme "hermaphrodite" / "shemale" Elf PC...? Although I'm not going to question that too much.
 
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Balaknightfang

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The real answer is that the writer didn't actually remember to accommodate player characters without a vagina :negativeman:
 
May 7, 2018
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I'm not sure how this issue ties back to the start of your problem here of "tfing back"
Especially since Wyld Wine gives the wyld mark, too

My point with that was that TF'ing once with Wyld Wine gives you a mark that is permanent and doesn't go away when you tf back, so you'd then lose the ability to then use Wyld Wine to gain other traits later. This usually doesn't matter as long as you pick one you like, but it's still a permanent commitment for a temporary dive into elf for Hashat that removes future options with the wine. There's also a number of appearance options that are unique to player creation and can't be gained or regained with TFS atm. Both some of several small annoying things about the current TF system that hopefully will be resolved over time now that the new appearance code is in.

But my issue was never that it was impossible for me to do, it was more a ideological argument that this game is usually about accommodating the player character as much as possible (even when its quite hard) so the idea of having a piece of content that is so laser-targeted just strikes me as odd. Most scenes that have specific requirements feel like rewards for qualifying for them; they feel like open doors appealing to whatever kinks they represent. But Hashat's elf thing is the opposite; it's a really narrow closed door that punishes you not being exactly what it was written for to the letter. Feels incongruent with the general spirit of the game.

Again, it's not so much that she has a noted preference for elves that she talks about, or even that there's a really hyper-specific enabled scene; if she was less enthused about me not being an elf but could still knock me up and access that whole content with her kids normally I'd have less complaints about the specific Elf Slut Kink being a one off specific scene. But despite her 'Ride Pony' scene having numerous references to "filling you full of foals" and cumming her "hyper virile seed" directly into your womb, you can't get knocked up by it no matter what. Only the Elf Kink scene can knock you up, because apparently her sperm is racist. It's amusing at least. If the only thing that changed was that being fixed, I'd be totally happy.
 

UndyingRevenant

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Feb 23, 2021
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Stats on level-up which just provide a flat boost to your damage suck. Why do you take strength when you level up? Why do you take willpower when you level up? Is it because you want the armor or the focus? Or is it because those stats just so happen to be tied directly to the damage you can do, and as such you pretty much need to invest in them (depending on your build) in order for you to stay effective as you level up. The primary reason why these are chosen is because it's a direct damage investment, to the point where not picking either of them is effectively just you cutting your arms off. I don't think they should be removed necessarily, but I also think that their nature inherently makes the choice of what to take less interesting.

Do I choose between being more likely to dodge, being more likely to randomly strike harder, or this consistent and necessary damage bonus? Heck, even if you're a pure support, you still pretty much just need to invest in willpower, because several support abilities scale based on your spellpower. At least you get to chose 3 of the 6 stats to give a boost to on level-up, but given that there's always going to be one of those going to the stat that you happen to use for dealing damage, you might as well just chose 2 of the four remaining stats for your entire build variety.

And if you're going for a split build, where you use both physical and magical powers, then that's a necessity to invest in both willpower and strength. This means even less ability to go for other stats for reasons aside from just punching harder. You could have non-damage reasons for going for one of the two, but their main shtick is that they are the go-to stat for actually becoming more powerful.
I'm new to trying to min max in games, and CoC2 is designed to be more freeform and less wrong choices stat wise, but imo the 3 stats shown when you select a class are the ones to level up, and that which provide the most benefit to the class. Each stat provides damage boosts or defense boosts directly or indirectly, but I've had zero problems since focusing on the 3 stats they recommend each level up, with the main stat being prioritized. With the drinks in the bar you can also get a additional stat temporarily boosted to your highest stats number. Gears a bit more complicated but in a interesting way, because sidegrades take more time to think about than "brass armor 2 dollars, super god beyond evil and good enchanted with sticky white stuff +12 4730000000 dollars". There are a few direct improvements 2 though, like the winter city leathers for light armor seem pretty straightforward, but generally as long as you can say "I can use this stat" and aren't like maxing spell power and using mage robes on a sword and board tank with options to smack with board 1-3 you can see and feel the stats upgrade over time. Generally in the current development you can't easily hinder yourself with stat choices until around winter city, where you stop being able to directly overpower all enemies with straight level upgrades. Coc rewards party composition more than stats though imo, you could be lu bu buy three dps likely will be one shot, 3 tanks won't do enough damage, and 3 healers likely won't be able to take or deal enough damage, but a tank healer and dps can do a fair bit even with less stats or gear.
 

Stupid_Goo

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Apr 10, 2021
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My point with that was that TF'ing once with Wyld Wine gives you a mark that is permanent and doesn't go away when you tf back, so you'd then lose the ability to then use Wyld Wine to gain other traits later.
Upon reading this, I often wonder why Wyld Elf traits have an option for Horse Cock if you can't change what Mark your elf has when you start off as one - on top of min-maxing aspects, there's no option for horsedong on character creation, and you can just get a horsecock anyways via Minoblood Wine.
 

GEESE

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Sep 27, 2018
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Upon reading this, I often wonder why Wyld Elf traits have an option for Horse Cock if you can't change what Mark your elf has when you start off as one - on top of min-maxing aspects, there's no option for horsedong on character creation, and you can just get a horsecock anyways via Minoblood Wine.
Cuz balancing your game around the minmaxers tends to be bad design. You pick it for personal flavor.
 

Stupid_Goo

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You pick it for personal flavor.

Which is why I'm wondering why I can't make a Wyld Elf black mage at the start with a horse peen, but I can have a snake tongue or dove wings, which you can't get on your own outside of locking yourself in with the Wyld Wine TF.
 

Squirrelwagon

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Jun 15, 2016
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which you can't get on your own outside of locking yourself in with the Wyld Wine TF.

You can get them in-game if you consume some Belharan Stew, though it's RNG dependent. Ivris sells it for 500 EC, so it is fairly expensive, but it's an option until we get reptilian TFs and Avian TFs outside of Harpies.
 

Stupid_Goo

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Belharan Stew is more like if you locked Wyld Wine out of alchemy and took out the Marks, though - and it's expensive mostly because of that Well-Fed status.

Which is exactly what the Stew is, Wyld Wine but no alchemy options.
 

Balaknightfang

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So, let me explain why the horse cock is granted by wyld wine but is not an option in character creation:
When I created wyld wine, I came in with two goals. First and foremost, create a general wyld elf TF. Then, my goal was to add a range of wyld marks that were not available at character creation because there just wasn't room and/or because of when in the character creation process the selection is. This may change in the future, but that's why it is the way it is at current. It's the only extra wyld mark that I ended up adding, I think, as I used the existing character with it as a reference (Fritte).
To be honest, I'm surprised no one noticed that there are no genital wyld marks in the options and reached the conclusion that that's why.
 

Stupid_Goo

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To be honest, I'm surprised no one noticed that there are no genital wyld marks in the options and reached the conclusion that that's why.

Explain your Equine Anus mark, then.
And also the fact that elf ears in genral are erogenous zones as it is.

But I get it, horsecock was an add-on and Wylf Elf char create might possibly get an extra page or three if/when writer comes up with more - such as deer (antler) TF and/or different types of goat horns (am an absurd fan or those markhor horns - the spiral/corkscrew ones that go straight up); maybe even add something like a distended jaw, like snakes.
 

Stupid_Goo

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Has sex education truly failed us so?

No, but then we need to explain eggnancies.

I was mostly joking around, btw.

What I was saying was, people use the anus for sexual release, kind of like how the kitsune can control their tails for such and what-not.
 
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sumgai

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The Anus isn't genitals, ya dingus! /sarcasm
 

Squirrelwagon

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Jun 15, 2016
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And yeah, Fritte is a pretty interesting case if we just consider Wyld Wine (and not the Character creation process), because she is capable of having both a Horse Cock (from the Wyld Mark) and retain her vagina too (something the PC cannot exhibit with their use of Wyld Wine).

So the thing here is that Wyld Elves have a third sex: you can be intersex. Game mechanics limit that in character creation to "has breasts and a dick", but theoretically, a Wyld Elf can have any form of primary and secondary sexual characteristic combination without issue. Fritte having both a cock and vagina isn't unusual.

Is it a shame that Wyld Wine doesn't reflect that? Yeah, kbut I think it would be a bit complicated to account for that unless the Champ has already TFed themselves different characteristics via the eggs and other miscellaneous TFs. I know that Aly's Frost Elf TF takes into account if you count as a Frost Elf "half-sex" (so very feminine/preference for female presentation with a cock), but Wyld Wine at its time of creation didn't really have that option from what I understand, so might be a good idea to edit it after the fact. You know. If you want to give the writers (Balak in this case) more work. (Or I offer myself as volunteer but oh my god the variables to take into consideration...)
 

Undecided

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Feb 16, 2021
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So the thing here is that Wyld Elves have a third sex: you can be intersex. Game mechanics limit that in character creation to "has breasts and a dick", but theoretically, a Wyld Elf can have any form of primary and secondary sexual characteristic combination without issue. Fritte having both a cock and vagina isn't unusual.

Yes, I am already aware of this, thanks.

Is it a shame that Wyld Wine doesn't reflect that? Yeah, kbut I think it would be a bit complicated to account for that unless the Champ has already TFed themselves different characteristics via the eggs and other miscellaneous TFs. I know that Aly's Frost Elf TF takes into account if you count as a Frost Elf "half-sex" (so very feminine/preference for female presentation with a cock), but Wyld Wine at its time of creation didn't really have that option from what I understand, so might be a good idea to edit it after the fact. You know. If you want to give the writers (Balak in this case) more work. (Or I offer myself as volunteer but oh my god the variables to take into consideration...)

Sorry, you've lost me a bit here. I understand that it would most likely be complex to account for the different variables of the PC, but that's not something I raised (nor even tried to downplay). All I was trying to convey was the difference of a Wyld Mark's affects on an NPC (Fritte presumably, fully female -> hermaphrodite) vs the PC (In this comparative scenario, fully female -> "shemale" - albeit with no testicles as well).

The notion that there should be edits was not something I ever advocated for (even in my thread here, I was just posing questions with only two proposed edits / ideas iirc), so your point of "You know. If you want to give the writers more work." seems a bit presumptuous.

Not to mention, this is the gripes thread is it not? Kind of seems a bit counterintuitive to police gripes in a sense (even though mine was not really coming from a gripe basis per se, more a reply to a Dev from a comparative basis).
 
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Squirrelwagon

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Jun 15, 2016
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Sorry, you've lost me a bit here. I understand that it would most likely be complex to account for the different variables of the PC, but that's not something I raised (nor even tried to downplay). All I was trying to convey was the difference of a Wyld Mark's affects on an NPC (Fritte presumably, fully female -> hermaphrodite) vs the PC (In this comparative scenario, fully female -> "shemale" - albeit with no testicles as well).

Fair, I seem to have gotten muddled while trying to explain my point: That Wyld Wine does seem absolutely capable making people in Savarra intersex, it's just not possible for the Champ as of this moment due to the way it was programmed/structured. Though I don't think there's any reason to assume Fritte wasn't a hermaphrodite from birth and that her Wyld Mark made itself known during puberty. That's why I brought up that Wyld Elves are intersex earlier, apologies for the tone and the unintentional assumption you didn't know about the lore; I meant it more as reiteration to later explain my point that just... Didn't come out clearly.

The notion that there should be edits was not something I ever advocated for (even in my thread here, I was just posing questions with only two proposed edits / ideas iirc), so your point of "You know. If you want to give the writers more work." seems a bit presumptuous.

This one is also a case of "tone doesn't translate well in written-form"; it was meant as self-deprecating because I would be interested in having this added to the Wyld Wine TF, in the same way that the Frost Elf TF accounts for this. Sorry about that, I should've either made that clearer or not made the joke at all.

I hadn't intended it as tone policing, but as a sort of gripe that Wyld Elf only accounts for PCs that are considered cis male or cis female in the game, and the whole thing got muddled because I didn't express myself clearly. Sorry again, and thanks for pointing all of this out!
 
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Undecided

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Feb 16, 2021
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Fair, I seem to have gotten muddled while trying to explain my point: That Wyld Wine does seem absolutely capable making people in Savarra intersex, it's just not possible for the Champ as of this moment due to the way it was programmed/structured. Though I don't think there's any reason to assume Fritte wasn't a hermaphrodite from birth and that her Wyld Mark made itself known during puberty. That's why I brought up that Wyld Elves are intersex earlier, apologies for the tone and the unintentional assumption you didn't know about the lore; I meant it more as reiteration to later explain my point that just... Didn't come out clearly.



This one is also a case of "tone doesn't translate well in written-form"; it was meant as self-deprecating because I would be interested in having this added to the Wyld Wine TF, in the same way that the Frost Elf TF accounts for this. Sorry about that, I should've either made that clearer or not made the joke at all.

I hadn't intended it as tone policing, but as a sort of gripe that Wyld Elf only accounts for PCs that are considered cis male or cis female in the game, and the whole thing got muddled because I didn't express myself clearly. Sorry again, and thanks for pointing all of this out!

Apologies, it's been a rough couple of days, so I'm pretty on edge. I don't mean to bring my IRL situations into interactions elsewhere, but it appears over the past (2 ?) days that I seem to already have done so.
So yeah, once again, apologies for that, I definitely need to chill and take a step back.
 
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Stupid_Goo

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Current gripe? Making a bunyip warrior and there's no fluffy lizard/snake tail TF.

And before anyone tries to call me out: yes, I know bunyip is supposed to be a naga, but considering taur and anything not biped is out, figured I'd make my own spin of a mutated one - game calls it a manticore because mane and furred arms/legs and cat paws for hands/feet.

Otherwise, I await the day the gryphon description and possible TFs get added...
 
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Bre Karn

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Aug 31, 2015
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The game's inventory and item storage limits have to be reworked. I can understand limiting the amount of consumables or even gear that a character may bring on exploration or dungeons, and even a limit on the total number of combat consumables that can be owned at any time in total, but the storage must account for the increasing number of unique pieces of gear the Champion is able to collect over the course of the game. I'm at max storage currently and it's mostly the unique sets I keep as mementoes even if I don't equip them.
 

TheHiddenOne

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Sep 14, 2015
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The game's inventory and item storage limits have to be reworked. I can understand limiting the amount of consumables or even gear that a character may bring on exploration or dungeons, and even a limit on the total number of combat consumables that can be owned at any time in total, but the storage must account for the increasing number of unique pieces of gear the Champion is able to collect over the course of the game. I'm at max storage currently and it's mostly the unique sets I keep as mementoes even if I don't equip them.

If the storage capacity has to stay the same, I would like a trophy room, where you could turn in such items.
That would "destroy" them, but also add their describtion to the trophy rooms description. (If such a thing is possible.)
 

Stupid_Goo

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Also stop hoarding.

But I like all my pretty purple star items...

But yeah, I tend to sell uniques depending on what build I have PC at - IE sell blade staff on warrior, thief & charmer builds but keep on white/black mage, etc.

But I also just hoard Razorcup Nectar because zero use for me until they manage to get past lvl6 cap - that's a lot of exp to waste using them imho.
 

TheHiddenOne

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Sep 14, 2015
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Storage capacity has steadily increased across the course of the game and will continue to do so.

Also stop hoarding.
You are right about the increase, kinda forgot about that. Still, the increase of space is slower than the speed of rare item collection. Which is probably by design, as I understand it.

But hoarding is half the fun. =(
 

sumgai

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Storage capacity has steadily increased across the course of the game and will continue to do so.

Also stop hoarding.

You don't know how painful it was to sell Viv's magic armor set for me.

:negativeman:
 
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