Your gripes with CoC II

[Herod_Hammerstar]

Look dude, I am aware that you are new and appear to be arguing in good faith

I am glad that you are aware of that; others apparently are not.

but we are used to shitheads coming in demanding the entire game be restructured because they don't like depending on other characters or aren't into the fetish content the game is angled for.

The unnecessarily judgmental "shithead" label notwithstanding...so what? If someone makes an unreasonable demand, you can just say the demand is unreasonable, and ignore them if they repeat it. If they post twenty times in an hour, ban them for spam; otherwise, no action is required.

sorry for the suboptimal experience, we just hear the same thing every week and are grumpy over it.

Apology gratefully accepted.

 

[The Observer]

Yeah, one way or another, dude is hopeless.

So uh.... gripes? Is that the thread I'm in now? I'm sad I can't rally the druids to go kick out the kitsune. Kohaku can stay and sell me tan eggs and shit, but that tree's gotta go. For nature, or something.

You know what they say, it's not like possession is nine tenths of the law or anything.

Certainly a nation, protected on both sides from a cataclysmic war by an ocean and its late entry into the game, would never abuse the ruined economic, social and political state of most everyone else to do a quick smash-grab on everything, loot their treasures, resources and knowledge and cement its position as a global hegemon before anyone else can recover. No siree.

The Fusata are probably pissing and moaning in their boots given the rise of their old-time rival, a situation I'll get to if we ever do another game and I get to illustrate not-China. In my head, they have a great wall built to stop the constant raids from those damn steppe centaurs, and it's alive with the collected fragments of the spirits of hundreds of thousands of monkeys who were worked to death building it and whose bones are buried in its foundations.

But yes, it's not a pretty situation. When you peel away the sexy exterior, Savarra's not a happy place -- the reason why there are catfolk all over the world? Jassira is the center of the world's equivalent of the Barbary slave trade. And then there's Arona and the Kervus...

Part of why I like writing for this game so much is the fact that we've managed to endear people to obviously unsavoury characters and factions like Kasyrra, Arona, Evergreen, the foxes, the Kervus, harpy wingleader, etc, etc, etc. It's interesting watching them fall over themselves trying to excuse their actions, like what we had with Kas a little while back.

 

[Wsan]

Part of why I like writing for this game so much is the fact that we've managed to endear people to obviously unsavoury characters and factions like Kasyrra, Arona, Evergreen, the foxes, the Kervus, harpy wingleader, etc, etc, etc. It's interesting watching them fall over themselves trying to excuse their actions, like what we had with Kas a little while back.

Khor'minoan slavery intensifies

 

[The Observer]

Khor'minoan slavery intensifies

Khor'minoan bloodsports intensifies

 

[Tenalc13]

The Fusata are probably pissing and moaning in their boots given the rise of their old-time rival, a situation I'll get to if we ever do another game and I get to illustrate not-China. In my head, they have a great wall built to stop the constant raids from those damn steppe centaurs, and it's alive with the collected fragments of the spirits of hundreds of thousands of monkeys who were worked to death building it and whose bones are buried in its foundations.

Spoiler: GODDAM MONGOLS

 

[Tenalc13]

Truly, Corruption of Champions 2 is the Dark Souls of Pornography.

Finally someone recognizes our efforts.

I thought more about Demon's Souls. What we know about souls and their use, and what NPCs tell us about it. More like the souls art from Demons.

 

[Furiae]

Certainly a nation, protected on both sides from a cataclysmic war by an ocean and its late entry into the game, would never abuse the ruined economic, social and political state of most everyone else to do a quick smash-grab on everything, loot their treasures, resources and knowledge and cement its position as a global hegemon before anyone else can recover. No siree.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't get (at least to some extent) why they do what they do, or complaining that they do it in the story. Like I think I've said, I live in Japan (not so far from the Chinatown they seriously named "Nanking Town" ), I'm not unfamiliar with the concepts. It would take some REALLY shitty writing to make me complain about any world building issues in the game, and honestly I doubt I'll ever see that in COC2.

It's just that from my champions' points of view (most of whom don't spend much time with Kiyoko, because much like her, they need dick to exist on this plane ) the situation would be quite simple:

• I sympathize with the druids after talking to Hethia
• The druids' gods (which I presume my wyld elf champs at least sympathize with to some extent, "they gave me my horse butthole, I owe them a solid") are dying
• The reason is a foreign tree the Kitsune set up
• The Kitsune are a large part of why I can't go 2 steps in the frostwood without shouting "that's MY purse! I don't know you!" anyway
• Fixing this might help out my poor lil elf regent buddy, too
• ...we should go beat up that tree

Even if doing so ended in a Yoko Taro kind of "oh no" kind of way*, that conversation between Hethia/Ryn/Champ feels like it's leading to a "oh brb, gonna go beat up all the kitsune and save the wyld" quest prompt of some kind. My champions would be super down for that with the information available to them.

(* = This is my favorite way for quests to end)

 

[The Observer]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't get (at least to some extent) why they do what they do, or complaining that they do it in the story. Like I think I've said, I live in Japan (not so far from the Chinatown they seriously named "Nanking Town" ), I'm not unfamiliar with the concepts. It would take some REALLY shitty writing to make me complain about any world building issues in the game, and honestly I doubt I'll ever see that in COC2.

It's just that from my champions' points of view (most of whom don't spend much time with Kiyoko, because much like her, they need dick to exist on this plane ) the situation would be quite simple:

• I sympathize with the druids after talking to Hethia
• The druids' gods (which I presume my wyld elf champs at least sympathize with to some extent, "they gave me my horse butthole, I owe them a solid") are dying
• The reason is a foreign tree the Kitsune set up
• The Kitsune are a large part of why I can't go 2 steps in the frostwood without shouting "that's MY purse! I don't know you!" anyway
• Fixing this might help out my poor lil elf regent buddy, too
• ...we should go beat up that tree

Even if doing so ended in a Yoko Taro kind of "oh no" kind of way*, that conversation between Hethia/Ryn/Champ feels like it's leading to a "oh brb, gonna go beat up all the kitsune and save the wyld" quest prompt of some kind. My champions would be super down for that with the information available to them.

(* = This is my favorite way for quests to end)

Oh, it's perfectly understandable, don't worry about it. This is the exact kind of emotion I'd like to invoke.

Question, though. Have you done most of the elf content post-Winter City, as well as Rift content?

 

[Furiae]

Ok cool, I know some people get...heated about the Kitsune so I wanted to make that clear

Question, though. Have you done most of the elf content post-Winter City, as well as Rift content?

I believe so! I can't recall the spoiler policy so I'm just gonna tag my thoughts to be safe:

Spoiler: WC/Rift stuff

So I've gotten as far as GweyrQuest/BasementGrandmas once so far. I do want to do another first runthrough of the Rift with different party members (the amount of character-specific dialogue was pretty rad), but AFAIK I've done everything available there ATM. Honestly it bumped Hethia (and Gweyr) really high up on my favorite NPCs lists. I was very glad that Ryn at least promised to not force the druids to convert, if I can't lead a warg raid on the kitsune.

I get why the queen converted at the time (and I do appreciate killing that wraith Kas let into the palace), but between the crypts and rift so far, I'm not a big fan of Lumia and her followers. If my main champ who made it through (a wyld elf white mage who, regardless of his corruption level is very much a "fixer" type) had his say, he'd probably be insisting to Ryn to try and pull the elves out of the rift as soon as the whole demon cultist thing is sorted out (or possibly sooner than that if it got him some Jotun dick).

Honestly there's only 2 things in the world that my main champ still desires: druid justice and Quin's butthole, and he will fight tirelessly until these goals are met.

 

[Savin]

I thought more about Demon's Souls. What we know about souls and their use, and what NPCs tell us about it. More like the souls art from Demons.

See this is why the next game is called "Demon's Holes"

Also y'all just wait for Futa Ghengis Khan in it.

 

[Savin]

feels like it's leading to a "oh brb, gonna go beat up all the kitsune and save the wyld" quest prompt of some kind.

I don't know how feasible it is at the moment but there's certainly merit in an anti-kitsune quest at some point in future. Or at least some ending variant where the foxes get chased off by the Champ & Friends -- even if in so doing the Marches of Tomorrow make a dangerous enemy.

 

[Alypia]

See this is why the next game is called "Demon's Holes"

Also y'all just wait for Futa Ghengis Khan in it.

 

[WolframL]

Khor'minoan bloodsports intensifies

We came for blood, death and/or dismemberment! Failing that, we'll take seeing the gladiators impaled on each others' dicks!

Also y'all just wait for Futa Ghengis Khan in it.

This brings a new meaning to plundering a land for its booty...

 

[Shadowwell]

If i had any real gripe with CoC2, it would be that the way that shields can apparently block any and all crits isnt too immersive. I am aware that the way they are handled is considered balanced from a mechanical standpoint, however.

It's just that the way any shield can block any crit feels off to me, i guess is the best way to put it. I could understand blocking a melee/arrow/etc based crit, or even a fireball or similar magical strikes, but a shield blocking a tease crit, especially if that is pheromone damage, doesnt really make much sense.

 

[Balaknightfang]

but a shield blocking a tease crit,

Shield your eyes taken to a literal meaning

especially if that is pheromone damage, do0esnt really make much sense.

Just wave the shield so that the pheromones get blown away 4head

 

[Wsan]

It's like Perseus but the medusa is sexier.

 

[sumgai]

It's like Perseus but the medusa is sexier.

Medusa is only working on getting one thing hard. Or multiple in the player takes that route. Or wet.

 

[WolframL]

It's like Perseus but the medusa is sexier.

Sexier medusa... so a shambleau?

 

[GOI]

so Fate's Medusa then

 

[Raishu]

Hey longtime player, first time commenter, the thing that annoys me most about this game is the very obvious content bias ala 90% female/femboy coalition population, which I know other people have talked about but this is the thread for bitching so let me bitch dammit! I might have a point or two anyway.

I get that its porn so its always gonna be heavily tilted towards the traditionally heterosexual male taste, this is not news to me, it's totally understandable and cool. But isn't the whole premise of these games that they're text adventures that change the values depending on user input? why can't this be used a little more? there's a whole genderbend thing for the one non femme companion, with a bunch of extra content, I don't see why this can't be used to a much lesser extent for some of the other characters. I mean so many of the girls have dicks anyway! why not just have an option to change the pronouns and references to breasts the same way it does for the player, depending on if they're male or herm? the scenes would be largely unchanged.

The weird restrictions are especially obvious in regards to Garret, one of the few romanceable masculine male characters with a good amount of content and a quest that doesn't revolve around becoming a girl, yet for some reason he's arbitrarily locked off from the players who could really do with that type of content. I have provided a text file, originally a scene involving a female pc with a vagina (locking out male pc's twice over), that i have used the find & replace tool to make it entirely fit for male characters, it took five minutes. I don't even like the dude tbh he's a douchebag who thinks he's hot shit for a weeb ass guilty gear looking creep who lives off of his dad, a six pack off of being a total incel, and would only be worth romancing if you could knock him down a peg, but he's one of my only options! except he's not! because he's locked off!

I'm sorry if im being mean, there is good stuff here and I get that most of you don't wanna deal with the gay shit, but its just annoying

 

[JustSomeGuy]

If people spent more time writing instead of bitching, imagine the possibilities

 

[WolframL]

If you're aware that the topic has been discussed before, you've probably at least had the opportunity to see the various posts where the devs explain why the game is the way it is and why your ideas are non-starters.

But isn't the whole premise of these games that they're text adventures that change the values depending on user input? why can't this be used a little more?

Start here and you'll see several people who have written for this game (including some of the main devs) talk about how 'make it a toggle' is really NOT an option.

there's a whole genderbend thing for the one non femme companion, with a bunch of extra content,

And Wsan has to write all of that Brienne content by hand.

Also, Quin exists.

The weird restrictions are especially obvious in regards to Garret, one of the few romanceable masculine male characters with a good amount of content and a quest that doesn't revolve around becoming a girl, yet for some reason he's arbitrarily locked off from the players who could really do with that type of content.

Not arbitrarily at all, he has A Type and if you don't meet it he's not interested in fucking you. The whole point is that these are characters, not indistinguishable blobs who will fuck anything that moves. Garret just happens to be more restrictive than most, but there's also Kiyoko for a full companion who has an ironclad requirement for progression. The writers envision the characters that way, hence that's how they're presented in the game.

 

[Raishu]

I don't agree. elements of the pc's features comes up in practically every scene, why would this be any different? that changes a bunch of different dialogues from every character, whilst changing a single character only affects them. You don't HAVE to change their personality only minor details and remove scenes that don't work. hell I could do it for you, it's easy.

Garret only has a couple scenes and even if each took twice as long, it would take much less time than actually writing it in the first place. you admitted yourself it was done by choice, If I were to sit down and spend around 30 minutes adding the option would they really put it in? or does he 'just have a type' in the game all about corruption? he's a fictional character in a porn game, he doesn't really have an identity beyond what you choose to write for him so why write him that way? literally every other character is bi for the sole purpose of appealing to whatever character you make, so why suddenly take the stance that "hes a real wolf man soul with feelings trapped in a video game" for this one character? the writers chose to write nearly every character that way, they chose to limit them, which is exactly my point.

Quinn has next to no content and is femme as hell, he's literally a pink bunny.

you can't really convince me it's not possible if I just showed that it was. do you want me to make him a dick girl? because that would be easy too.

also the patreon situation they were talking about is exactly what a biased voting pool is? saying that it HAS to be accurate to poll only people who already like what you're doing, because it would be too dificult to poll the people you're providing nothing for and thus don't give a shit, is circular logic. of course you're not gonna get support from the people you're not marketing to in any way, that doesn't mean it's impossible. The fact that you immediately had someone else among the many other people asking for this stuff, making the same argument (that I didn't even see) proves that im not alone and that there is a demand: multiple people have made an account for a forum for a game mostly filled with content specifically written to not be interesting TO them, and the content that DOES is written to not be interested IN them because "theyre just that kind of person", to ask about perhaps widening the amount of content, only to be met with "theres not enough demand to change some wording, try paying someone to make something else or just make your own" think about all the people who AREN'T stupid enough to waste their time doing that! clearly there is a demand.

I'm not making sense I know but maybe more people would support m/m content if you tried to market to them a bit more, even if its a bit shit and clearly recycled

heres some more people complaining I found ages ago from twitter and some of the updates, you know theres more

 

[sumgai]

Fleep's submission just got put in the game.

 

[Tide Hunter]

The lack of desire to change already existing characters to fit what specific people want isn't some wishy washy "oh but they have a soul!" thing, no, it's because that's what the writer wants to do. Writers write how they want to write, and if you don't like it, then whatever. I was bummed that Jin-Jin is exclusively gay since almost all of my characters are herms, but I'm not trying to campaign that he be rewritten to be bi like everyone else. I'd rather all the characters be bi/omni, but I don't dictate what the writers do.

 

[WolframL]

I don't agree. elements of the pc's features comes up in practically every scene, why would this be any different?

Because the parser system is designed around the Champion having many variables to their appearance (which have very little impact on the flow of most scenes) but it's not similarly set up to account for physical changes to NPCs except for (mainly) naughty bits to allow some variety in descriptions and some character-specific variables. It's certainly not set up to reflect the kind of changes you're proposing. Again, all the stuff written for Brienne has to be done manually, it's not like Wsan waves a magic wand and suddenly the Brint scene becomes a Brienne one. Now imagine that for even more characters.

hell I could do it for you, it's easy.

[gets marshmallows ready for the roasting]

Garret only has a couple scenes and even if each took twice as long, it would take much less time than actually writing it in the first place. you admitted yourself it was done by choice, If I were to sit down and spend around 30 minutes adding the option would they really put it in?

That topic I linked you to already? The Observer writes Garret and if you actually read the discussion in detail you'd know his stance on the matter.

he doesn't really have an identity beyond what you choose to write for him so why write him that way?

Because. That. Is. What. The. Writer. Decided.

literally every other character is bi for the sole purpose of appealing to whatever character you make

Kiyoko. You literally can't progress her story past its introduction and definitely can't recruit her if you play an all-female Champion. Because that's just how she's conceived as a character. Janeen isn't interested in males, Jin-Jin, Gwyn and Lusamine aren't interested in females.

Quinn has next to no content and is femme as hell, he's literally a pink bunny.

The only part of him that's pink is his eyes and he has quite a bit of content, just not as much as some of the other companions.

you can't really convince me it's not possible if I just showed that it was. do you want me to make him a dick girl? because that would be easy too.

Performing a find-and-replace on a text dump you made of a scene is not at all the same as things look on the coding side.

The fact that you immediately had someone else among the many other people asking for this stuff, making the same argument (that I didn't even see) proves that im not alone and that there is a demand

If you kept reading that topic you'd see that The Observer quite specifically points out that the demand you cite does not measurably move their financials in the expected direction when it's met or not met, meaning it's not nearly so vast as you seem to think. Meanwhile, the time and effort it would take to accede to your request would take time away from literally anything else they could be working on.

even if its a bit shit and clearly recycled

And this, right here, is the glaring problem with your logic.

 

[Emerald]

Quinn has next to no content and is femme as hell, he's literally a pink bunny.

He ain't "femme as hell" at all, he is a twunk. And the pink bunny thing is his firewalk shit. Know what you're talking about before you say it. :U

And why did I focus on this specifically? Because you spouted so much other bullshit I can't be bothered to reply. You just joined anyways, so not worth the time.

If you hate that the game isn't catering to you so much to make a long collaboration of whinging about it, you might as well stop playing and go somewhere else. Or better yet, write the shit you actually want in the game through an event submission. Absolutely NOTHING is stopping you from making a gay hunky lupine of your own for fucks sake.

 

[Raishu]

Because the parser system is designed around the Champion having many variables to their appearance (which have very little impact on the flow of most scenes) but it's not similarly set up to account for physical changes to NPCs except for (mainly) naughty bits to allow some variety in descriptions and some character-specific variables. It's certainly not set up to reflect the kind of changes you're proposing. Again, all the stuff written for Brienne has to be done manually, it's not like Wsan waves a magic wand and suddenly the Brint scene becomes a Brienne one. Now imagine that for even more characters.

That seems like a really annoying system to work with but I guess that's fair. though what's stopping you from going around it instead of through it? content can be toggled in the main menu so would it be possible to have two vertually identical events linked to an or switch?

[gets marshmallows ready for the roasting]

Performing a find-and-replace on a text dump you made of a scene is not at all the same as things look on the coding side.

I admit my coding skills are next to nonexistent beyond shitty copy-paste based modding but in terms of writing thats all it is, and stats wise it's mostly changing pre-existing values right?

That topic I linked you to already? The Observer writes Garret and if you actually read the discussion in detail you'd know his stance on the matter.

If you kept reading that topic you'd see that The Observer quite specifically points out that the demand you cite does not measurably move their financials in the expected direction when it's met or not met, meaning it's not nearly so vast as you seem to think. Meanwhile, the time and effort it would take to accede to your request would take time away from literally anything else they could be working on.

I read it, I just don't agree. Whether by poll or sales you can't base demand on people you haven't marketed to, and in terms of cost it's easier to adapt old content than to create new stuff, and it's not like gay furries are known for spending money on porn or anything...

Kiyoko. You literally can't progress her story past its introduction and definitely can't recruit her if you play an all-female Champion. Because that's just how she's conceived as a character. Janeen isn't interested in males, Jin-Jin, Gwyn and Lusamine aren't interested in females.

this makes more sense considering there's already lots of characters that fill these niches, but even then it's a pointless waste. would it really improve any players playthrough by knowing that other players were barred from that content?

Because. That. Is. What. The. Writer. Decided.

again it adds nothing to the character and only serves to shit on fans who wanted it considering it's one of the few things that caters to them. why can't it be changed?

The only part of him that's pink is his eyes and he has quite a bit of content, just not as much as some of the other companions

the pink bunny thing is his firewalk shit. Know what you're talking about before you say it. :U

^thats the joke

And this, right here, is the glaring problem with your logic.

something is better than nothing

He ain't "femme as hell" at all, he is a twunk.

thankyou for explaining gay lingo to me, a very obviously gay dude. you are wrong, that's not what that means.

You just joined anyways, so not worth the time.

Again: long time player. started playing CoC 1 around 2017, arrived a little late for CoC 2 but definitely before Garret was introduced because it don't think it said on the update page that his content was slashed for male players and I played his whole stupid quest where he reveals himself to be a giant gary stu asshole. I do genuinely like these games and I'm saying this stuff after slogging through the bullshit to find any scenes that actually apply to me. Im talking about my problems with the game in good faith...

you might as well stop playing and go somewhere else.

why make this thread if you're all just going to get pissy with me for critiquing a game.

 

[Soulboros]

Long time player of all sav and companies games. Enjoy them very much. My main gripe is a weird one but cuddling. There's not enough but there can never be enough. I suppose another one would be weapons. I've tried dual weapons and so far a two handed weapon is superior damage output.

Content wise I enjoy most characters. the team has fantastic writing abilities and comparing original CoC writing to what they do now is a vast improvement. I look forward to seeing what its like when completed.

The characters I dislike I simply avoid interacting with aside from what's required for quests and geting a feel for the type of character they are.

 

[Savin]

But isn't the whole premise of these games that they're text adventures that change the values depending on user input? why can't this be used a little more? there's a whole genderbend thing for the one non femme companion, with a bunch of extra content

Because that would require a dramatic increase in writing/coding time. It may seem like a small thing, but when a fairly typical feature-rich NPC can run over 30,000 words all on his or her own, having to default to the parser for every single pronoun and body part call is going to add, I dunno, let's say another 20% to your word count setting aside how many actual hand-written variations you'd have to write to account for differing genital arrangements or the presence/lack/size of breasts. For NPCs that lack dicks of their own to begin with, you'd have to write entirely new scenes from scratch for them to have dongs.

It would be easier for herm NPCs to convert to male on a technical level, but you'll find that even setting aside any moral or creative offense this may give (which would be quite a bit from most creators. I am sure the transwomen authors we work with would be thrilled by the sentiment), just removing boobs and masculinizing hips and ass is going to dramatically change the flow and tenor of nearly any sex scene. So it would have to, in large part, be rewritten by hand. I'd encourage you to go copy and paste a scene from, say, Lady Evergreen -- an overly voluptuous tanuki BBW milf, whose entire character is best summarized as "evil mommydom" -- and try your hand at editing the scene, just the text that it spits out, into her being a studly daddy dom. You'll quickly find out how much work that would take; then realize she's got something like 10 scenes already and her base content isn't even complete.

NPCs also don't typically have the same character sheets and parserization that the Player Character does. f.ex Queen Alissa doesn't have an [alissa.chest] parser, and if I tried calling it, it would come up wrong or with an error because all the numbers are big zeroes. Excepting a few special cases, NPCs only exist as text. You can actually see this come up when enemies use the generic tease texts and they all have flat chests and no ass, because the parser's trying to call on non-existent data.

The genderbent companion you mentioned was written entirely by hand; she doesn't really share much if any sex content with her male counterpart. Cuz, you know, completely different set of genitalia and also her outright sexuality changes.