Your gripes with CoC II

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zagzig

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Feb 26, 2021
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Trolls leave when you stop feeding them, I'm just saying.

My gripe is to this day there is still an absence of Kiyoko anal. To be clear I'm talking about Kiyoko pitching rather than catching.
 
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Rudra72

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Jun 16, 2022
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Heh.

I've literally written pages of responses just to prove a point. It's bold of you to assume that I can't or won't write.
Hey, I never said you couldn't write, only that you've made no submissions. But if the shoe fits.....

These responses are getting wildly long and the subject is going in circles, can we please move on?
I'm kinda morbidly curious to see how far this can go. For what it's worth, it's still civil.
 

Tide Hunter

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May 4, 2019
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I'll cut down on what there is I'm responding to, to not endlessly rehash things and make this much less aggravating. I previously wanted to stop, but I'm bad at following my own advice. It's not really short, but it's more focused on specific points, rather than this line-by-line response thing.
Taldahs is only ruling if you let him live and his only descendent is female. The Winter City is currently ruled by a queen. I acknowledged Khor'minos has a king, but I must have missed the part where it said that Tychris had a king. The vast majority of national/regional/tribal rulers so far encountered in the story have been female.

And I am very much aware that Savarra is not Earth, but since patriarchies are very much the norm for Earth, it wouldn't be a bad idea to explain why matriarchies are seemingly the norm in Savarrra. Or at least The Frost Marches.
Why need an explanation, when we can see that there are many super strong women? There's a principle in storytelling called "show, don't tell." I'm certain you've heard of it. Well, we've been shown that there's plenty of strong women, and plenty of smart women, who are just as capable, if not moreso, than many of the men. Not to mention that several societies are shown as biologically more disposed towards female leaders. The Hornets follow a queen, who birthed them. The Boreal Elves have two feminine sexes and one male sex, which shifts the proportions towards more women. The Marefolk can't have male leaders because males get rabies when becoming adults.
Are people being terrorized? Because the citizens of Hawkethorne, The Kitsune Den, Khor'minos, etc. Don't seem to bothered about what's going on. Because you're right, there are people being raped, killed, transformed against their will - but The Frost Marches is largely reacting to it all with a collective shrug.
Khor'minos is fighting a war, the people of Hawkethorne have withdrawn from trade and forestry and are staying walled up in their village, and the kitsune have kept themselves sealed off from the outside for so long that most of them probably weren't able to notice it due to isolationism. It's pretty clear that the people are bothered.
I think it's important because they're humanoid first, extra bits second. You see, there's an established "inner-logic" within the game in regards to the sentient races: They all have humanoid features, two arms, a head, a tongue, a nose, a penis and/or vagina... even reptiloid races like the salamanders have breasts.

So as you can see, most of the races are designed to be physically attractive to us humans - which is why they consistently have these features - human features. And while it's true that not every race has wings, or tails, or claws, etc. When so many women have penises (and no men do) it comes off as horny wish-fulfillment, and nothing more.

Again, I understand that people want to write what they want to write. And I'm only bringing this up because it can be very easily explained but isn't.
But, again, why? If you want an explanation on why a race has cocked females, then it's either "evolution found it advantageous" or "the god that made that race wanted them to have cocks". If you want an explanation for why many women chose to grow cocks, it's not socially unacceptable in any location and alchemy is a longstanding thing.
"A good chunk of them are male."

Who? Name names. Name every single living male national/regional/tribal leader that we meet that doesn't get removed and replaced by a woman.
I don't know if we meet the Khor'minos king. Taldahs isn't replaced with Ahmri though, because in the timeline where Taldahs is killed, Ahmri is kidnapped, and you, the Champion, assume control of the tribe. We will meet the king of Tychris, eventually, when the region gets added to the game, though that's still a while off. The Marked Men Mercs are run by a man, and though it's temporarily being run by a woman, she's way less competent than the literally immortal man who actually runs the mercs, whenever he deigns to show up. How many female leaders are there? There's Alissa&Etheryn for the winter city, Komari, Atani, Nyzerrah, and Arona. I'm not counting Ahmri, because, again, she never rules, she just gets kidnapped in the timeline where Taldahs dies. There's not that many leaders in the game overall, so, discounting the king of Tychris, I still say that a sizable chunk of the leaders are male. If we had, say, 10 more region or group leaders around, and all of those were female or futa, I'd say there's a clear imbalance, but with this sample size, it's just a female lean. It is majority female, sure, but it's not an overwhelming female landslide.
I've done the Convocation of Mirrors - which just reinforces my point about them being "real."

And sure, there are healing spells. Alchemical treatments, the like. White mages are great and all.

Oh. But there's this thing called a black mage that can literally set you on fire with the flick of a wrist. Who can summon beings of pure chaos and fire. Who can move earth, and call down lightning on their foes.

So as much good as a white mage might do, a black mage could do as much bad.

And you're right, grim dark is about tone. Nobody seems to care that people are raped or murdered and the like in this "light-hearted" game.
The fire, lightning, earth stuff would be really devastating, if it weren't for the fact that many of our foes treat it like foreplay. Most of the time, after a battle, enemies are just kinda battered, not even unconscious, just beaten up enough that they'd rather not fight more. You can blast a group of horny naked elves with an inferno and a lightning storm, and break their eardrums, and blind them, and poison them, and they say "wow, that was fun! Let's fuck now." Clearly, the people of Savarra are way more resilient than the people of earth. It's very rare for people to die, outside of the occasional dark spots.
"There aren't enough people to unite."

[Citation needed]

"Mobilizing and transporting troops to a distant part of the world takes time."

So what's stopping The Champion from using The Ways Between to quickly bring in help? Instead of chasing Kas around, why aren't we going to the major cities and at least making sure that everyone knows that things are going down in The Frost Marches?
In the people count, the individual settlements are spread out and isolated. If all of them got together, they'd be much stronger, but Khor'minos, the strongest power in the region, completely quarantined the mountain, the Winter City hasn't been in contact with Hawkthorne for decades, the Kitsune are feared and distrusted by everyone here, the Marefolk are too far south for help to go between it and Hawkethorne without getting kidnapped by centaurs, the centaurs got corrupted and started fighting, the Hornets got corrupted and started fighting, the Orcs are a bunch of raiders who got here and decided to start raiding because that's what they did (sidenote, there's a scene in the Khor'minos bathhouse if you bring Arona where it's shown that the Minotaurs are definitely racist against the orcs), the Marked Men Mercs fell into disarray when the leader took a vacation and as such started fighting and pillaging rather than being the defense force they were hired to be. There's enough people that they could unite, but the groups are all either isolated from each other or fighting each other, and the individual groups aren't large enough to push back and unite with each other despite the adversities, if they're even willing to reach out.

As for the Ways Between, there are a few instances when characters were talking about the Ways Between, which should probably have let you know why. The old system of idols fell into disrepair after the Godswar, and almost nobody had the knowledge or resources to fix them up and use them, aside from a few isolated individuals (and the kitsune, but they have a modified version which is its own private network, connected only to other Kitsune torii gates). The Way Walker title tells you, travel in the Ways Between was a closely kept secret of the Estelore mages, and as you've done the Convocation, you know that Estelore was annihilated first by the Wraiths. The Champion can't use it to go to major far off cities, because the pathways and idols simply are not connected. It's like taking a train to a location when the rails and stations have completely fallen apart.
 

luciel1331

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Oct 20, 2021
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I didn't know that, how do I get Ahmri kidnapped?
If you choose to kill Taldahs instead of talking to him. She gets kidnapped if you decide to corrupt the centaur village. Post corrupt centaur village doesn't have content right now so I personally don't recommend doing it right now (since there's really nothing to gain like hive corrupt route).
 
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SmithEK

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Apr 20, 2021
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If you choose to kill Taldahs instead of talking to him. She gets kidnapped if you decide to corrupt the centaur village. Post corrupt centaur village doesn't have content right now so I personally don't recommend doing it right now (since there's really nothing to gain like hive corrupt route).
Ah I see, thanks.
 

Oh Philomena

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Jan 20, 2022
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Dude. Pursang. This is a fetish porn game primarily targeted at people who want to have sex with women.

The writers who contribute here put a lot of effort into building their world, creating great characters and giving it a sense of history, but it is all orbiting around a central directive of "make our target audience horny and create situations for sex to occur."

Why are there so many woman leaders? Because this is a fetish porn game primarily targeted at people who want to have sex with women. Why are the ingame communities relatively functional and accessible from a player perspective? Why is the war effort not given more in-depth strategic focus? Because this is a fetish porn game and not Pathologic or Civ.

Horniness is one of the least logical parts of the human experience. CoC2 is a big, horny theme park with a story that takes you from one horny attraction to the next. I like it a lot and have never really wanted or needed it to be explained beyond that.
 

AStrangeGeek

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Jul 14, 2022
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The writers who contribute here put a lot of effort into building their world, creating great characters and giving it a sense of history, but it is all orbiting around a central directive of "make our target audience horny and create situations for sex to occur."
I was rather surprised how much depth this game had when I decided to give it a try. There was actually a solid backplot, and Kas is not just a cardboard-cutout villain. She has some depth to her to the point that I look forward to my interactions with her. It's even solid as a plain RPG. As much as I like sexy scenes, I have to have a healthy dollop of plot to go with the sex.

That said, I do admit to being mystified over the debate here. This is indeed first and foremost a game about sex, and a fantasy world to boot that has no resemblance to Earth, so naturally things are going to be skewed towards a combination of what the authors and the majority of the players are going to find erotic. There's things in the game that are not quite my cup of tea, but I understand someone has a thing for it, so that's why it's in the game.

No game about sex is going to appeal to absolutely everyone. You'll drive yourself mad if you try to cater to everyone.
 

WolframL

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Feb 12, 2020
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I'm going to make one more response and then I'm going to drop this, because this is going in circles. And I'll avoid rehashing things that Tide Hunter has already addressed because I think the point has been made.
The best fantasy stories (like for instance, Lord of the Rings) use our own world as a starting point because it's extremely important to convey understanding through context, especially when things become unfamiliar and bizarre.
Yes, and Savarra does just that. It also draws on various well-established fantasy tropes, mixes them with historical models and the output is a very interesting world. And just as the game does not require an explanation for why there are orcs and dragons and catfolk and elves (none of which exist in the real world outside of stories) it does not require an explanation for why any given percentage of women have penises, or why any given state has a female in charge instead of a male, or why Hawkthorne has a racially mixed population that's getting along. Reason: BECAUSE.
Heh. When you wrote this, I'm sure you meant it as a "haha, got you!" moment - but in fact I've been thinking about contributing in the writing department for a while now.
Actually no, that is the stock response from the devs whenever someone talks about wanting specific content in the game which they don't have any plans to write and hence what others of us will suggest as well. If you think you have something to contribute, submissions are open.
That aside, you seem a little hung up on the fact that Savarra isn't the real world, even though you really should be hung up on why it doesn't make as much sense as the real world.
The 'real world' is, by definition, 100% maximally realistic. Any world we create in fiction is going to be less real and thus not match it. I see no reason to waste time getting hung up on a fictional world not matching it.
By all means, point me to a quote from Savin in which he says that CoC 2 doesn't take place in the same universe as CoC 1, or that certain characters within the game aren't from Mareth - the world that CoC 1 takes place in.
I said same world by which I meant planet, not same universe. And the devs could not be more clear on the whole 'CoC2 is not CoC1' thing.
Could you imagine if the rest of humanity shared your worldview? "Well this virus is killing all of us, we don't know why it's killing all of us as it's seemingly come out of nowhere! Oh well! It was born that way! Better not question it!" - Probably something that you would say.
Strawman arguments do not make you look cool.
Wsan doesn't have to justify why some dryad's have penises. Just like Savin doesn't have to justify why some Snow Elves have penises - but it'd be nice to get context as to why Savarra is different than Earth - so that we can better understand and appreciate the world.
Because they wrote it to be different. If you must have a Watsonian explanation, 'because the world has things ours does not like gods and magic and things evolved differently'. There you go.
Will happen? It's literally unavoidable if you want to pick it and you don't have any foreknowledge of the consequences of it other than sex. There is not a single sign-post!
Fine, I will grant you that this one case is not signposted. The rest are.
Less I involve the admins.

If I where you, I'd take the L and move on.
Really? I haven't heard someone use 'I'll tell on you!' since I was twelve. This is a forum for adults and a lot of people here are snarky. Trying to act 'tough' like this does not impress.
 

Kyubi Xiaolong

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Jul 17, 2022
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this is a weird one.... the fact that the kitsune mother languge is just not some random dialouge in Japanese kanji.... but i also get why its done the way it is
 

Alypia

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Apr 22, 2016
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this is a weird one.... the fact that the kitsune mother languge is just not some random dialouge in Japanese kanji.... but i also get why its done the way it is
The kits speaking Literally Japanese and the elves speaking Literally Swedish is a joke.

Mostly.
 

Kyubi Xiaolong

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Jul 17, 2022
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The kits speaking Literally Japanese and the elves speaking Literally Swedish is a joke.

Mostly.
i dont see the swedish and elf connection.... but i do see the japanese and kitsune/tanuki connection..... specially since both are japanese origin, the kitsune culture is very similar to japanese culture during the tokugawa shogunate, and their culinary and military habits.... and concept of shame and punishment are also very similar so forgive for seeing alot of my culture in them and not as a joke
 

WolframL

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Feb 12, 2020
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this is a weird one.... the fact that the kitsune mother languge is just not some random dialouge in Japanese kanji.... but i also get why its done the way it is
Thiink of it as Fantasy Japanese, in the same way that everyone is speaking English but the characters are probably not 'really' speaking it., except this isn't Tolkien so nobody is inventing complete languages and even he was gracious enough to 'translate' Lord of the Rings for our reading pleasure.

The main reason we don't get details on their language (not counting Silly Mode, which features some examples of actual Japanese text) is because the Champ canonically does not speak or read the language and cannot learn to do so in the handful of months during which the game takes place.
i dont see the swedish and elf connection
The boer'alvar take some cultural cues from Scandinavia (and the islander orcs take different ones) and Aly maaaay have written a few more into her scenes if you turn on Silly Mode, though they're no more canon than anything else you'll see in that mode.

...except the Silly Mode bit about never waking a sleeping cat, because that is just capital-t Truth.
 
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Alypia

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Apr 22, 2016
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so forgive for seeing alot of my culture in them and not as a joke
Ah. I wasn't saying that Japanese culture was a joke. The floofs are very obviously Inspired By Real-World Japan. I was saying that literally speaking the exact same language as historical Japanese is a joke, because the kitsune lines only get directly translated to Japanese in Silly Mode. Same with elves and Swedish.
 

Rudra72

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Jun 16, 2022
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A minor, minor nitpick I have - I wish silly mode was well, a bit modular. I want to see the comedic scenes and the Easter eggs, for example, but I don't want the currency to be "fur gold"
 
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RedRoseRequiem

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May 25, 2021
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I wouldn't be so upset over the loss of Berwyn if he was going to be replaced with another male character. Instead, outside of the two men in our party, 8 out of 10 companions is going to have huge tits and be a woman, dick or not, depending on your choice of Ryn. It's just incredibly frustrating to be a bi person and play this game if your preferences in porn aren't "women" and "women with dicks," especially if you want them to be more than just an enemy encounter.
 

BadDragoon

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Apr 19, 2021
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I wouldn't be so upset over the loss of Berwyn if he was going to be replaced with another male character.
My sentiments exactly. I get it, they are catering to their "target audience" but tbh at some point I got to wonder why they even bother with male characters at all when they get sidelined this hard. It feels like going to a buffet but all you're getting are appetizers and when you point it out the only response you get is "Why are you complaining? At least you got something to eat".
 

Oh Philomena

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Jan 20, 2022
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I wouldn't be so upset over the loss of Berwyn if he was going to be replaced with another male character. Instead, outside of the two men in our party, 8 out of 10 companions is going to have huge tits and be a woman, dick or not, depending on your choice of Ryn. It's just incredibly frustrating to be a bi person and play this game if your preferences in porn aren't "women" and "women with dicks," especially if you want them to be more than just an enemy encounter.

I totally feel this, although I think the Berwyn situation is best for everyone on the creative team and that's ultimately what's most important.

Brint is a great companion with tons of possible interactions, but Quint has really gotten left by the wayside and I hope that changes. (Especially since his recent updates have added in a romantic relationship with someone other than the PC, which I really do not like.) CoC is CoC and will always be weighted more heavily toward people who want to have sex with women, but it would be nice if the male characters that do exist had a little extra love put into them.

And I do (maybe incorrectly) often think that four out of the eight woman companions often feel very redundant from a personality and content perspective — I don't necessarily know what about Agni, Azyrran, Atugia or Brienne is special, unique or distinct from the others. Arona, Cait, Etheryn and Kiyoko all fill pretty different niches, but the other four kind of hover in a very similar zone imho? Selfishly, I would love to see some of the attention going to them instead going to dude characters. (Although obviously I know that's not an actual one-to-one correlation and it's not as though creative energy can actually be siphoned from, like, Agni and redirected to Quint.)

But horny is as horny does and every writer on the team deserves the chance to chase their pet project in return for all the work they do, obviously.
 

RedRoseRequiem

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May 25, 2021
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I totally feel this, although I think the Berwyn situation is best for everyone on the creative team and that's ultimately what's most important.

Brint is a great companion with tons of possible interactions, but Quint has really gotten left by the wayside and I hope that changes. (Especially since his recent updates have added in a romantic relationship with someone other than the PC, which I really do not like.) CoC is CoC and will always be weighted more heavily toward people who want to have sex with women, but it would be nice if the male characters that do exist had a little extra love put into them.

And I do (maybe incorrectly) often think that four out of the eight woman companions often feel very redundant from a personality and content perspective — I don't necessarily know what about Agni, Azyrran, Atugia or Brienne is special, unique or distinct from the others. Arona, Cait, Etheryn and Kiyoko all fill pretty different niches, but the other four kind of hover in a very similar zone imho? Selfishly, I would love to see some of the attention going to them instead going to dude characters. (Although obviously I know that's not an actual one-to-one correlation and it's not as though creative energy can actually be siphoned from, like, Agni and redirected to Quint.)

But horny is as horny does and every writer on the team deserves the chance to chase their pet project in return for all the work they do, obviously.
I don't like beefcake, so I'm stuck with Quin. Which is incredibly frustrating, because Berwyn filled a niche that's already virtually non-existent in this game, and now I'm going to get YET ANOTHER Big Titty Lady instead of a niche. Because if you choose the right options, going forward, Quin will be the ONLY non-big titty lady you can recruit. The problem is these ten companions are it, I'm going to have Quint with a bunch of extraneous big titty ladies as my options for party members because that's who the devs keep company with and the only ones who got to make companions.

And while I get the need to cut it off eventually... I also can voice my displeasure and make it clear I'm out because a lot of what I like is left out because the game caters more and more to "women and women with dicks" fetish over time, to the point that anything else DOES feel like an afterthought. Did you know you could initially softlock the game by going to have sex with Matiha and not having a dick? Kinda makes me feel like such a complete afterthought that it feels more like, "Oh, yeah, we totally have vegetarian options" and it's just a bunch of lettuce while everyone else gets full-course meals.
 

Alypia

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Apr 22, 2016
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Did you know you could initially softlock the game by going to have sex with Matiha and not having a dick? Kinda makes me feel like such a complete afterthought that it feels more like, "Oh, yeah, we totally have vegetarian options" and it's just a bunch of lettuce while everyone else gets full-course meals.
I want you to know that while I understand and support your unhappiness and I get feeling like an afterthought, this specific thing was just a bug. The content was written; it just wasn't hooked up properly.

I've never done so myself, but from what I understand, people who play characters with dicks have had plenty of their own softlock bugs over the years.
 
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RedRoseRequiem

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I want you to know that while I understand and support your unhappiness and I get feeling like an afterthought, this specific thing was just a bug. The content was written; it just wasn't hooked up properly.

I've never done so myself, but from what I understand, people who play characters with dicks have had plenty of their own softlock bugs over the years.
oh, I'm sure it was a bug. It's just that it somehow wasn't hooked up properly and made it out in such a way that would theoretically affect any champion with no dick. Combine that with Mayternity being 99% for dick-having PCs with a bone tossed toward pussy-having PCs occasionally, the fact that most of the companions (seriously, 7/10 with Viv?) are Big Titty Waifus, it begins to feel like you're an afterthought.
 

Alypia

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Apr 22, 2016
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oh, I'm sure it was a bug. It's just that it somehow wasn't hooked up properly and made it out in such a way that would theoretically affect any champion with no dick. Combine that with Mayternity being 99% for dick-having PCs with a bone tossed toward pussy-having PCs occasionally, the fact that most of the companions (seriously, 7/10 with Viv?) are Big Titty Waifus, it begins to feel like you're an afterthought.
I understand what it feels like when most of the sex content isn't for you. It's not fun. Stopping game support wasn't my response, but I get it if it feels like the one you have to take.
 

Tide Hunter

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May 4, 2019
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Because if you choose the right options, going forward, Quin will be the ONLY non-big titty lady you can recruit.
Agni and Atugia have pretty average breasts, I'd say. Still, I understand being frustrated with having so few male options.
And I do (maybe incorrectly) often think that four out of the eight woman companions often feel very redundant from a personality and content perspective — I don't necessarily know what about Agni, Azyrran, Atugia or Brienne is special, unique or distinct from the others. Arona, Cait, Etheryn and Kiyoko all fill pretty different niches, but the other four kind of hover in a very similar zone imho?
Brienne's extremely subby and loving. Azyrran's often decently reserved but has a strong will and, I think, a somewhat romantic view on things. Tugs is pretty much the "tomboy" archetype, being outspoken and somewhat masculine, with a softer side, mixed in with how she's lived for hundreds of years and is still a hothead after all that. Agni is suicidal and aggressively horny, though I've not used her enough to know more than that.
 

RedRoseRequiem

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May 25, 2021
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Agni and Atugia have pretty average breasts, I'd say. Still, I understand being frustrated with having so few male options.
Average, I guess, to people like Arona. But some of Atugia's nude art looks to be on par with me in size, and I'm uh. Deeeefinitely not "average." Likewise, while Agni's supposed to be C-cup, something about her art makes her feel like she's bustier than that--I wouldn't have guessed C-cup looking at it. In all honesty, with both their art, it FEELS very much a case of "boobs look smaller because they're stacked with muscle, too."
 

HK-47

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May 17, 2017
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I wouldn't be so upset over the loss of Berwyn if he was going to be replaced with another male character. Instead, outside of the two men in our party, 8 out of 10 companions is going to have huge tits and be a woman, dick or not, depending on your choice of Ryn. It's just incredibly frustrating to be a bi person and play this game if your preferences in porn aren't "women" and "women with dicks," especially if you want them to be more than just an enemy encounter.
Mhmm, same though. I mean, I get why it was done from a development perspective, but the fact that the male companion count dropped is quite discouraging, when it was already ridiculously weighted towards female characters.

Then to have Berry replaced with yet another female character down the road? Come on, we get you guys have a whole thing there, but damn, you’re kinda beating a dead horse at this point. A little variety hardly hurts anyone.
 

CitrusWolf

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May 19, 2020
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hey as much as I agree with feeling underfed, this is pretty much a dead topic at this point, you have not been the first that feels bored at the lack of characters you are interested in, you will not be the last that dislikes how the game is 99% penis wielding player oriented, but it's just naught salt at this point, it doesn't matter as it isn't what the devs want and its not something community writers have interest in pursuing for no coin.
 

RedRoseRequiem

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May 25, 2021
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hey as much as I agree with feeling underfed, this is pretty much a dead topic at this point, you have not been the first that feels bored at the lack of characters you are interested in, you will not be the last that dislikes how the game is 99% penis wielding player oriented, but it's just naught salt at this point, it doesn't matter as it isn't what the devs want and its not something community writers have interest in pursuing for no coin.
Hence why I've already said I'm moving on and taking my money with me.
 
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