Your gripes with CoC II

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WolframL

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Feb 12, 2020
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Sometimes I make potions for TFs and they do nothing despite the wiki saying they should do something. Tried using Incubus Cum and Succubus milk to get bubble butt perk, but nothing happened even after 7 potions besides the increase in corruption. Maybe it was a bug though? but yeah, the TFs dont seem to work as "advertised"(not sure if wiki is managed by the dev team). I've been staying away from TFs because of this, scared about what they might do, but I actually really like TF items.
If you tried using Incubus Cum to gain the Bubble Butt perk, the problem is that the item does not grant it but removes it if you have it. If you tried using Succubus Milk + Juicy Peach and failed to get it then it's still probably not a bug because that item can cause a lot of effects and they aren't all going to proc on the same use. I just tested it on a Champ and gained the perk after nine uses, some of which procced other effects.

The description on the wiki does look like it's inaccurate with regard to the conditions though, as it seems like it grants Bubble But only once your Champ's Butt Rating is 20 or over, rather than when it's under 20.
 

Alypia

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Apr 22, 2016
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Also, the best way to get Bubble Butt perk is to use Juicy Peach + Gold Egg or + Bovum Sherry. Available much earlier in the game.
 
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Kingu2

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May 20, 2020
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Well I liked the quest and the whole maze concept but it's really shitty to lose Berwyn and all of his frost hound scenes. It's not hitting me too hard since I'm glad he's still in the game and we get to have a more intimate and romantic relationship with him. As long as he gets more content in the future I'll be be fine. I have to say though, I hate the way this was handled. I mean this was clearly planned far in advance and we were given no heads-up whatsoever and just had our dogboi mage abruptly pulled from the party. What an incredibly unpleasant surprise. It's like finding out you're best friends moving away the day of the move, just really shitty man.
 

WolframL

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I mean this was clearly planned far in advance and we were given no heads-up whatsoever and just had our dogboi mage abruptly pulled from the party. What an incredibly unpleasant surprise. It's like finding out you're best friends moving away the day of the move, just really shitty man.
To quote B on this very issue:
The choice was made between 'drop it all at once, weather a shitstorm that lasts a few days, and move on' or 'drop the news immediately and weather a rainstorm that lasts fifteen months.' Even if you think it wouldn't have been that bad, the gentle stream erodes the mighty mountain, and etc.
Considering how people are reacting now, I have little doubt that those would have been a very long fifteen months.
 
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luciel1331

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Oct 20, 2021
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Kind of off-topic from what's been discussed here so far, but I wish there is more equipment that gives a bonus to attack power. While I haven't checked every single piece of equipment, just looking at wiki and a whole new bunch of items in Khorminos, there's way abundance of equipment that gives spell power and sexiness compared to attack power. I can only think of one item on top of my head that gives a bonus to attack power which is the champion's belt. Wish there was a bit more balance in the equipment (I know combat isn't the main thing in this game but I've been enjoying making different builds with different combat styles).

Edit: Oh right the hat you get from Berwyn's quest seems to give bonus to attackpower depending on stats.
 

The Observer

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Aug 27, 2015
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Kind of off-topic from what's been discussed here so far, but I wish there is more equipment that gives a bonus to attack power. While I haven't checked every single piece of equipment, just looking at wiki and a whole new bunch of items in Khorminos, there's way abundance of equipment that gives spell power and sexiness compared to attack power. I can only think of one item on top of my head that gives a bonus to attack power which is the champion's belt. Wish there was a bit more balance in the equipment (I know combat isn't the main thing in this game but I've been enjoying making different builds with different combat styles).

Edit: Oh right the hat you get from Berwyn's quest seems to give bonus to attackpower depending on stats.
This is partially because many powers give bonus attack power, while bonus spellpower and sexiness comes from equipment. This may change down the line, but it's the current situation.
 
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Radriel

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Jul 28, 2022
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If you tried using Incubus Cum to gain the Bubble Butt perk, the problem is that the item does not grant it but removes it if you have it. If you tried using Succubus Milk + Juicy Peach and failed to get it then it's still probably not a bug because that item can cause a lot of effects and they aren't all going to proc on the same use. I just tested it on a Champ and gained the perk after nine uses, some of which procced other effects.

The description on the wiki does look like it's inaccurate with regard to the conditions though, as it seems like it grants Bubble But only once your Champ's Butt Rating is 20 or over, rather than when it's under 20.
Tried using Incubus Cum to gain messy orgasm just now and it did nothing. Supposedly that was the only result in that category. Maybe there is some hidden requirement in terms of Corruption or something? I at least have resolved to do a bit of experimenting on this playthrough

And for the other times, it wasnt that something else happened, it specifically told me that nothing happened. Which was odd, because there should have been other outcomes as you said. But after the scene describing me taking the potion, and seeing my Corruption go up, the next page specifically said "nothing happened". I did get effects from consuming the TF raw, but I didnt really want most of those outcomes. I was playing on a human as well, so in theory no mixups with things like Wyld Mark or w/e. Still, I feel I need more info before complaining about it more than this. So I guess I'll report back in a few days.
 

Pursang

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Apr 7, 2018
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This. Is. A. Fantasy. Game. It does not need to reflect real life. Fantasy. Game.
This is true, a fantasy doesn't need to make sense.

Now, I could say: "G'lbrk of the Thun-Run-Ill halak'd thirty-two paces so that it could zz'grob-nagh-FOL." And say this is an excerpt from a fantasy book.

But I'd be a fool if I got mad at anyone for complaining that what I just said was seemingly gibberish. The best fantasy stories (like for instance, Lord of the Rings) use our own world as a starting point because it's extremely important to convey understanding through context, especially when things become unfamiliar and bizarre.

Only because you have not been paying attention. The game describes the impact of the Godswar repeatedly, there is an entire quest where you explore the ruins of a fort that fell during the Godswar and hear what it did to the region. The hub location where you begin the game and spend a lot of your time had to be rebuilt a few decades before the game begins because it took that long after the Godswar for the population levels to return to the point that they could rebuild a permanent settlement there. There is a sequence that contains some of the most significant lore in the game which tells you straight up that a major city is an absolute shell of its former glory because of the Godswar. Characters talk about how bad things are in the heartlands that bore the brunt of the fighting. That you think it hasn't been explained does not mean that it hasn't been.
I think you've forgotten the context of my original quote. I am quite aware that The Godswar caused a great deal of damage and suffering. But to my knowledge there has not been a reasonable explanation as to why there are so many spirits, magical creatures, chimeric peoples', and radically different races living in near-harmony only a few hundred years after its end.

There is no part of telling a compelling story that requires a fucking essay about race relations, just to fit your obsession with having every possible detail explained about why people are mostly getting along.
Literally nobody said or implied otherwise. In fact, I think that current race relations in the game could very easily be neatly explained by a short codex entry.

I am not at all lambasting Savin and the developers for simply not having the time to get to every single nook-and-cranny of the story. But things cannot reach their maximum potential without being challenged.

You want to see something different? Write it.
Heh. When you wrote this, I'm sure you meant it as a "haha, got you!" moment - but in fact I've been thinking about contributing in the writing department for a while now.

Years actually. Even before CoC2 was publicly released.

Thank you so much for supporting my dreams. That's so kind.


Actually, yes it does, because your argument was 'lol no kings'. The single greatest polity on the planet had a ruling emperor before the Godswar happened.
Actually, my argument was: "Why where there currently so many dommy-mommy MILF-queens in such (relative) close proximity? It comes off as wish-fulfillment rather than realistic. I love those things though, so maybe we can get an explanation as to whether this is unusual for the world of Savarra or not."

That's it.

And I think that you're mistaking a game for a sociopolitical tract, which it is not and was never intended to be.
Hmm. You keep using the word "tract" incorrectly, and it's throwing me off a bit. Perhaps you mean sociopolitical commentary?

And if you don't believe that a game about strong women, gay, bisexual, transgender people isn't sociopolitical commentary, then boy do I have an ocean in Africa I'd like to sell you.

Ummm, no. Go back to the village and read instead of skimming over it and picking out stupid crap to nitpick. Taldahs is still the chief of the village, Ahmri is his daughter. You may be confusing her with Atani, who does assume permanent leadership over the marefolk village because her mother isn't really in a good state to take up that responsibility due to the permahorni.
This is quite funny to me, because it is you that seems to have skimmed over the part where Taldahs is quite dead in one of the outcomes of The Centaur Village - so unless he's planning to rule from the grave, he's not going to be ruling anymore. And I do not recall anything to imply that the mantle of leadership wouldn't fall to Ahmri by birthright.

If you can't live with the worldbuilding as the devs have done it for (checks) four years and counting, plus the lead time before anything was publicly released, you might as well just stop because the game has gone that long and nobody else has complained that what CoC2 really needs is an explanation for why there are so many female leaders or why the proportion of dickgirls does not match any real-world percentages. Newsflash: Savarra is not the real world, it doesn't have to reflect anything in it that the devs don't want to.
Well then, I'm very glad I came along when I did, or these problems (as minor as most of them are) would have been glossed over and likely never addressed.

You're welcome.

That aside, you seem a little hung up on the fact that Savarra isn't the real world, even though you really should be hung up on why it doesn't make as much sense as the real world.

No, but it means that she has a much better handle on herself than the CoC1 demons did. Demons who were, also, not written to be terribly deep characters. Hence, why she comes across as different. The writing actually acknowledges this.
The writing never acknowledges why she's like this. Although this could be easily rectified by her giving us more of her background as we get to know her.

I could direct you to a dozen posts by the devs where they say, using very small words, that CoC2 is not CoC1 and you shouldn't be using it as a model for anything in the game. I'm sorry, you are objectively wrong. It does matter who's writing it and it does not matter that it's a sorta-sequel to the earlier game. And really, 'sequel' because it's not set in the same world and it does not have any continuity of plot or (with one exception that you may never even see) of characters.
1659160130278.png
From the wiki.

By all means, point me to a quote from Savin in which he says that CoC 2 doesn't take place in the same universe as CoC 1, or that certain characters within the game aren't from Mareth - the world that CoC 1 takes place in.

I'm waiting with baited breath.

The irony here is that this is Tobs speaking, the writer who comes as close as any of them do to having anything approaching grimdark. And he says you're full of shit.
I understand what Tobs is trying to say, but this game is in no way "light-hearted."

Unless you think that "light-hearted" = A good amount of casual rape, mass murder, spectral and magical horrors, kidnapping, some more rape, mind-control, and just so much death.

That kind of thing seems pretty grim to me. Maybe a little dark too.

By definition, a psychopath is not 'normal'. There's a reason they call its study 'abnormal psychology'.
Nope, that is not the definition of psychopathy. But I'll bite: Define normal?

But this is besides the point, whether it normal or abnormal to not have empathy is irrelevant. I don't think it's quite the drawback you make it out to be.

Fortunately, you are a tiny minority screaming into the void.
Actually, I think it's quite unfortunate that so few people have high standards. Not even high standards, as nothing I've said is unreasonable.

Although... you do seem to try to argue my every point. My "screaming" is quite clearly getting to you.

Would you consider yourself the void?

Literally. Born. That. Way. It's right there in the Codex entry for the Wyld and Frost Elves.
Could you imagine if the rest of humanity shared your worldview? "Well this virus is killing all of us, we don't know why it's killing all of us as it's seemingly come out of nowhere! Oh well! It was born that way! Better not question it!" - Probably something that you would say.

They're an extremely niche fetish that none of the staff writers and very few community writers are interested in, so they don't show up. It's really that simple. And before you say 'but muh population numbers, they don't add up!' let me direct you to Tobs again, saying that the devs do not give a flying fuck about meeting any sort of diversity quota.
I think that you're lost in the sauce a bit, as you're consistently forgetting my main points. I never asked for or expect any equality. I do not want "diversity quotas."

I want a world that makes sense. Is something overrepresented when it shouldn't be? Great! A very short codex entry would easily fix this issue - something that I'm sure that any of the writers here can do.

And yet, it's not wrong. They are literally described as nature spirits, a thing that you will not find in the real world no matter how hard you search. Ergo, Wsan doesn't have to justify why one of his dryads has a horse peen. That's how they're written. For the Nth time, deal with it snowflake.
Wsan doesn't have to justify why some dryad's have penises. Just like Savin doesn't have to justify why some Snow Elves have penises - but it'd be nice to get context as to why Savarra is different than Earth - so that we can better understand and appreciate the world.

Again, it's an easy fix.

Ancient Greece had city-states with citizen populations (ie, the adult males who'd be fighting) numbering in the thousands to ten of thousands. Hawkthorne has, including the surrounding farmsteads, a total population of about one thousand people. The numbers simply Do Not Work for a standing army, though if you, y'know, pay attention, you might see dialogue about the training of a militia.
And? Hawkethorne isn't the only settlement in The Frost Marches. And besides - an army of twenty is better than an army of zero.

They don't exist anymore. We have been told this. Repeatedly. The superpower of the world got its shit kicked in by the Godswar.
Power abhors a vacuum. Just because Belhar is gone, that doesn't mean another nation (or more!) wouldn't rise up to take its place.

Why wouldn't they? That's what's happened throughout history.

Largely busy dealing with the aftermath of the aforementioned shit-kicking-in which still afflicts most of the Belharan heartland. Do everyone a favor and if you have not done so already, do the High Ground quest and pay very close attention to what everyone says about sinkholes and similar phenomenon.
Well they can't be that busy: Keros is usually lounging about The Kitsune Den, DTF. Mallach is DTF. Lumia showed up to kick ass in The Winter City. Nareva is seemingly busy keeping her pet salamanders in a state of non-aliveness.

They seem to have plenty of time on their hands to deal with an existential threat like Kas.

They share the same general features in art because they're being drawn by, largely, one person these days. Savin is not a AAA game studio that can afford to hire half a dozen designers to make sure every character is completely unique.

Also, 'takes your breath away' is in the eye of the beholder.
Yup. I said that almost exactly in my original post. Thank you for reinforcing my point.

You literally stated that you clicked the wrong button, opting into a transformation. That's on you. You you you you. Other transformations are literally signposted for you, usually with bold text in a tooltip. If you don't bother to read it, that's not the devs' fault...
Yes. I clicked the wrong button in retrospect - because the game didn't tell me what I was getting into. Which is the game's fault - not the player's. It was NOT "sign-posted" at all.

It. Is. Clearly. Signposted. And. Is. Opt. In.
Sigh.

My brother in Christ.

You need to replay the prologue and do all of the options before you speak....

Where does THIS:
1659163077059.png

Say that THIS: Screenshot 2022-07-29 233717.png

Will happen? It's literally unavoidable if you want to pick it and you don't have any foreknowledge of the consequences of it other than sex. There is not a single sign-post!

-----


Now, up 'til now I've been very polite and understanding of you - WolframL. Despite the overt aggression, despite the ad-hominem attacks. I've treated you with respect despite you not doing the same to me, but to be honest I'm growing tired of you arguing in bad faith.

So before you start pecking away at your keyboard in the darkness of your room, reconsider what you're about to say.

Less I involve the admins.

If I where you, I'd take the L and move on.
 
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Rudra72

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Jun 16, 2022
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Heh. When you wrote this, I'm sure you meant it as a "haha, got you!" moment - but in fact I've been thinking about contributing in the writing department for a while now.

Years actually. Even before CoC2 was publicly released.

Thank you so much for supporting my dreams. That's so kind.
I will say this, Pursang - this part rings kind of hollow if you havent so much so as made a submission, forget getting something in game.

That said, I'm staying out of the rest of this conflict - you and Wolfram have differing ideas on what this game should be and the scope of what its writing should cover, and I have no interest in adding to that by stating my own views.
 
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Radriel

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Jul 28, 2022
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It is true that Kasyrra morphs you without much signposting. The champion doesnt really know much about what is gonna happen and so it isnt written that something might happen from that perspective. And the options dont have any out of character style signage either. So if you liked small breasts, but wanna get fucked by a dommy demon, you're gonna end up with D's up there and will need potions to counteract it after the fact. And I will mention that you can in fact reverse any of the changes done here. Only very specific TFs cannot be reversed in some way. I can see how this can be annoying to some players, though.

Explanations for why Kas is "different" from other demons is actually explained in game, though it is locked behind being friendly/pursuing Kas. She actually goes into a lot of detail about where she came from and what happened and how she got here and why she is different from a lot of Demons. You actually get to ask her what Demons even are and she tries to explain it. Play through a file where she tells you, cuz its pretty interesting.

And I similarly feel the world has been explained sufficiently. Hawkethorne and settlements like it are only very recently coming into existence. There was tons of conflict beforehand. The orcs have been a raiding culture for a long time now(this is stated literally in character creation) and the Lupines have been explained as being part of wandering tribes. Ad-hoc Mercenary companies are/were the primary form of "law" enforcement. The Local ruler does try to keep things together by hiring mercs actually, but everything is falling apart too rapidly and those same mercs often turn to banditry themselves because there is no real cultural tradition of law and order anymore. There are very personal reasons why the Baron here specifically doesnt take a more personal approach despite being somewhat powerful that i wont spoiler here. Things are(or at least were) getting better before Kas arrived, but the world is simply not in a position to unite against her.

On the response of the Gods, I can say that they are definitely active, but they have bigger fish to fry than Kas. They do make moves against her though. The feeling I got was that they would actually be doing even more, but the Champion seems at least potentially up to the task enough that they are watching how well you do before committing further. Their power isn't actually infinite and they keep mentioning an "Intruder" they are fighting against(which isn't Kas). They are not omnipresent or omniscient(not that kind of god). A lot of this stuff still seems to be in the realm of foreshadowing though. I think we need to progress the plot more to see more of what is happening behind the scenes here. I think its also important to keep in mind that Kas is kinda at the level of regional problem at the start of the game as well. The Frost Marches arent exactly a huge deal in the grand scheme of things to the gods. And they have zero frame of reference for what level of threat Kasyrra potentially could be. As far as I can tell, they dont have any knowledge of Kasyrra's world.
 
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Tide Hunter

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May 4, 2019
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Now, up 'til now I've been very polite and understanding of you - WolframL. Despite the overt aggression, despite the ad-hominem attacks. I've treated you with respect despite you not doing the same to me, but to be honest I'm growing tired of you arguing in bad faith.

So before you start pecking away at your keyboard in the darkness of your room, reconsider what you're about to say.

Less I involve the admins.

If I where you, I'd take the L and move on.
I'm tired of this shit. The conversation is going nowhere, and to be quite frank, it needs to end needs to end. You made a good point on the lack of signposting for certain transformations, but otherwise, you've been demanding explanations for why more female characters have cocks than real people (why do you think it needs more explaining? The codex is written from an in-universe perspective, why should there be a line in them saying "yeah, people here are generally much less constrained by gender and sex than reality" when reality isn't in there?) and other shit that either doesn't need an explanation or which has several reasons already in the game, and at every turn you do everything you can to ignore the points being presented to you unless you think you can win a point. You're not winning shit, and neither is anyone else in this conversation. You're treating it like a competitive sports match and trying to "win" and act all tough and shit, and while debates can be fun, this is just frustrating. So please just shut up. This extends to everyone else too. There's no reason to keep dragging this out.
 

Pursang

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Apr 7, 2018
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Apologies for the double-reply, I wasn't sure if there was a max word-count for each post.

Humans were one of the two main races in the Belharan Empire, which basically took over a massive part of the world before the Godswar. They ran an empire that took over a massive part of the world, and you think that that isn't conflict? Anyways, the Godswar literally destroyed many civilizations, including Belhar, which was functionally the United States of its time, and set technology back hundreds of years. It took a whole bunch of races and civilizations working together to fight them off. And you know what? Even after that, there are still conflicts, wars, and racism. We don't see much of those, because of our quest, but if you want just one shot of racism, look at the friction between Kitsune and non-kitsune.
I'm quite aware of Belhar and its role in The Godswar. However, what isn't clear is why there is no replacement for the Belharan Empire after hundreds of years.

Nor is it clear that there have been much if any conflicts, wars, or racism. No evidence seems to suggest any large scale wars at least. And while it's true that some people have a problem with kitsune (I feel like it's unfair to compare the kitsune to any other race, since they're so fleshed-out) it isn't too evident that it's a pervasive problem.

After all, I can walk down Hawkethorne's main street, or walk into Khor'minos and nobody seems to raise their eyebrows when I'm hand-in-hand with my kitsune-wife.

Taldahs is still ruling, Khor'minos is ruled by a king, the Winter City was ruled by a King (Ryn and Alyssa's father) before he got killed by a wild boar, the Salamander kingdom Tychris is currently ruled by a king. Kingdoms seem to be ruled by whoever has a leadership position. It isn't decided by gender outside of a few instances, but you seem to think they're all ruled by queens just because a few of them have queens without kings, and you seem to think that patriarchies must be the norm, despite how Savarra very clearly doesn't play by Earth rules, and it often seems that women are just as strong and capable as men.
Taldahs is only ruling if you let him live and his only descendent is female. The Winter City is currently ruled by a queen. I acknowledged Khor'minos has a king, but I must have missed the part where it said that Tychris had a king. The vast majority of national/regional/tribal rulers so far encountered in the story have been female.

And I am very much aware that Savarra is not Earth, but since patriarchies are very much the norm for Earth, it wouldn't be a bad idea to explain why matriarchies are seemingly the norm in Savarrra. Or at least The Frost Marches.

Kas's world would be a fun place, and there'd be upsides, but she's decided to force her way upon everyone. Also, the negatives of lacking a soul include having your empathy lost and having your willpower wildly changed. As Farrah tells you, the loss of her Soul led to her loosing any interest or desire in anything except for merchandising and having sex. It makes people hyper-fixated on one thing that they were interested in before it was gone (alongside sex), to the exclusion of everything else.
Is Kas forcing her will upon everyone really all that much different than a king forcing his will upon his people? Where people happy when the Belharan Empire forced its will upon its subjects? What about the living gods? Is everyone okay with them?

Would the people of Savarra really care who's holding the whip?

Kas doesn't come off as hyper-fixated on anything. One day she's corrupting a queen, the next, she'll have a date with you, then she might sneak in somewhere, disguised. She doesn't seem too fixated on anything. Not even her goals.


She's come to deliver an apocalypse to this world and all other worlds she can find. Sure, it's a very sexy apocalypse, but I'm still fairly certain that her actions would be considered genocide, under the definition of it being a destruction of a nation or ethnicity's culture or way of life.
Yes, this is exactly my issue. She comes to dominate, to take control of Savarra - to shape it as she sees fit. But her actions don't line up with her personality.

Romance-path Kas is too soft, too endearing, she reads like she's not fully committed to her own plans. That she's not committed to being a demon. It makes her come off as wishy-washy.

Obviously, Eryka isn't happy. Taldahs isn't happy either, he was just desperate enough to accept it. The people being terrorized by gangs of corrupted centaurs weren't happy. The citizens of Hawkethorne who were getting raped by Alraune Effigies and corrupted Hornets weren't happy. The people fighting to preserve their cultures and ways of life from a maniacal dictator would very much love to disagree with you.
Are people being terrorized? Because the citizens of Hawkethorne, The Kitsune Den, Khor'minos, etc. Don't seem to bothered about what's going on. Because you're right, there are people being raped, killed, transformed against their will - but The Frost Marches is largely reacting to it all with a collective shrug.

Context isn't needed. But if you do, there are races which are hermaphroditic. Even in reality, there are hermaphroditic species, so why is it so inconceivable to you that this fantasy world has some? Aside from that, there's alchemy and magic, both of which have been shown to grow cocks and otherwise change bodies. And if what you're wondering is why so many women have dicks that they want, this isn't Earth. Why do so many people have tails? Real humans aren't generally comfortable with tails, when they even have it. But many characters in CoC2 have tails, and they're fine. So why can't you imagine this, but with cocks?
I think it's important because they're humanoid first, extra bits second. You see, there's an established "inner-logic" within the game in regards to the sentient races: They all have humanoid features, two arms, a head, a tongue, a nose, a penis and/or vagina... even reptiloid races like the salamanders have breasts.

So as you can see, most of the races are designed to be physically attractive to us humans - which is why they consistently have these features - human features. And while it's true that not every race has wings, or tails, or claws, etc. When so many women have penises (and no men do) it comes off as horny wish-fulfillment, and nothing more.

Again, I understand that people want to write what they want to write. And I'm only bringing this up because it can be very easily explained but isn't.

Because we're fucking them. There are more average people which appear, but they might not stick out in your head, or you may just view them as attractive too. Because average is attractive too.
I would almost bet money that the people you find average other people might find attractive.

As I've said before, I'd just like a little bit of ugliness to make the beautiful art really pop.

The only forced TF that can happen without you taking the action is if you loose to the Tanuki Witch before beating her and telling her not to tf your cock and balls. Anything else, you opt into it.
I consider any unlabeled or sudden TFs as forced TFs (see: Prologue Kas,) Because the player has no foreknowledge of it, and if they don't want the TF they need to reload or pray that there's an easy way to change it back. Meaning that it's impossible for the player to not get transformed with foreknowledge.

Why do you think that reality has to play any part with this? Catgirls are over-represented here compared to reality. Demons are over-represented here. Savarra isn't Earth. It's a separate, imaginary world. Things in this world are the way that they are because that's how they developed in the past.
Are they though? We humans created catgirls. We created demons. They exist in the pages of books that have been written on them. By the art created by them.

Catgirls and demons are very much a part of Earth.

We know exactly how they where developed on Earth, but we cannot say the same for how they where developed on Savarra.

It is very clear what happened. Hell, there's an entire event called the Convocation of Mirrors, which 1: has massive spoilers, and 2: Talks a lot about the Godswar and what the situation was like. Even aside from that, there's ruins everywhere from the time of the Godswar, showing the ruin that it brought.
Yes. I know. Vast death and destruction.

But that doesn't resolve the questions I put foreword: Why there are so many sentient races living in close proximity. Why there are so many women with different biology.

However. A quick codex entry linking the two together could be easily done.

Take a shot for every horny catgirl. Take a shot for every demon. Take a shot for every unnamed enemy in a group fight that is generally a dick.
There are kings in the present, and near past. How many queens have we actually seen so far? Two. And one tribe of horsegirls run by a horsegirl, balanced out by the centaurs run by a guy. And a tribe of orcs where you can depose a guy and replace him with a girl. We haven't seen a massive table of rulers, only a few, and a good chunk of them are male.
"A good chunk of them are male."

Who? Name names. Name every single living male national/regional/tribal leader that we meet that doesn't get removed and replaced by a woman.

Not at all, did you actually read it at all? Ahmri has basically no administrative power. She's a pampered girl, and her big strong daddy isn't going to let her suddenly be shoved into a position of command like that.
"Her big strong daddy" can't do much if he's dead, now can he?

Kas's only abnormal trait is that she seems to be developing a romantic interest in the Champ. This is explicitly pointed out, and it seems, to me at least, to be tied to her baby desire and the Champ's soul. She wants to nurture the Champ's power so she can take his soul and use it for her experiments. Her long-term goals include having a baby, but they also include utterly obliterating the way of life of many people.
The fact that a soulless demon that lacks empathy can have romantic feelings for anyone is massively abnormal. At least in comparison to the other demons we've been introduced so far.

The gods... Okay, you really need to play through the Convocation of Mirrors.
Anyways, where the hell are you getting this from? Your claims as to what's being done to people is made up, and while there isn't modern medicine, there's magical healing spells, as demonstrated by the White Mage class and the priests/clerics that are found in the world. Many of them have a dedicated heal button, in which they completely heal you of your wounds.
And, besides. Grimdark is about tone. You could make a grimdark story about baking cupcakes with the right tone, and this game absolutely lacks a grimdark tone. Nobody is swimming in waves of pigshit, and people are generally happy-go-lucky.
I've done the Convocation of Mirrors - which just reinforces my point about them being "real."

And sure, there are healing spells. Alchemical treatments, the like. White mages are great and all.

Oh. But there's this thing called a black mage that can literally set you on fire with the flick of a wrist. Who can summon beings of pure chaos and fire. Who can move earth, and call down lightning on their foes.

So as much good as a white mage might do, a black mage could do as much bad.

And you're right, grim dark is about tone. Nobody seems to care that people are raped or murdered and the like in this "light-hearted" game.

You didn't debunk shit. All you said is that there's more girls with cocks than in reality. And, as you may have noted from my previous statements, Savarra isn't Earth. You don't need to explain why more girls want to have cocks than Earth women beyond saying "more Savarran women like having cocks than Earth women." I do think we need more guys with pussies though, but nobody wants to write one, and this game is ultimately fueled by what people want to write.
I did debunk exactly what I said though. Your personal feelings on the matter are irrelevant.

And you seem to be skipping over the fact that there are entire races with women randomly having penises. There is no "more Savarran women having cocks than Earth women." The Savarran people have a shared ancestry, a common history. Why not go into that history? Why not delve into it and explore it? Savarra has a potentially rich history that's begging to be tapped.

Are you telling me you're not the least bit curious?

This is what writers do. They write. They don't need people to simply hand-wave things away unnecessarily when writing can be done.

There aren't enough people to unite, and they're not close enough together. Plus, Kas's corruption turns groups against each other, making hornets rape lupines and centaurs molest mares.
As for why the followers of the Living Gods aren't stepping in, they are. Champions and soldiers are arriving in the Frost Marches after the Winter City, called by their gods to fight. The thing is, this game is set in the span of a few months. Mobilizing and transporting troops to a distant part of the world takes time.
"There aren't enough people to unite."

[Citation needed]

"Mobilizing and transporting troops to a distant part of the world takes time."

So what's stopping The Champion from using The Ways Between to quickly bring in help? Instead of chasing Kas around, why aren't we going to the major cities and at least making sure that everyone knows that things are going down in The Frost Marches?

I will say this, Pursang - this part rings kind of hollow if you havent so much so as made a submission, forget getting something in game.
Heh.

I've literally written pages of responses just to prove a point. It's bold of you to assume that I can't or won't write.
 

Pursang

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2018
54
42
I'm tired of this shit. The conversation is going nowhere, and to be quite frank, it needs to end needs to end. You made a good point on the lack of signposting for certain transformations, but otherwise, you've been demanding explanations for why more female characters have cocks than real people (why do you think it needs more explaining? The codex is written from an in-universe perspective, why should there be a line in them saying "yeah, people here are generally much less constrained by gender and sex than reality" when reality isn't in there?) and other shit that either doesn't need an explanation or which has several reasons already in the game, and at every turn you do everything you can to ignore the points being presented to you unless you think you can win a point. You're not winning shit, and neither is anyone else in this conversation. You're treating it like a competitive sports match and trying to "win" and act all tough and shit, and while debates can be fun, this is just frustrating. So please just shut up. This extends to everyone else too. There's no reason to keep dragging this out.
On the contrary. I'm neither demanding anything, nor am I ignoring any points brought up by anyone - you included.

I am merely stating my opinion - which, I would be the first to say is imperfect.

But if anyone can change my mind, I would welcome it.
 

Ria Brew

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2020
166
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3jC3.gif


These responses are getting wildly long and the subject is going in circles, can we please move on?
 

zagzig

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2021
803
1,064
Trolls leave when you stop feeding them, I'm just saying.

My gripe is to this day there is still an absence of Kiyoko anal. To be clear I'm talking about Kiyoko pitching rather than catching.
 
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Rudra72

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Jun 16, 2022
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Heh.

I've literally written pages of responses just to prove a point. It's bold of you to assume that I can't or won't write.
Hey, I never said you couldn't write, only that you've made no submissions. But if the shoe fits.....

These responses are getting wildly long and the subject is going in circles, can we please move on?
I'm kinda morbidly curious to see how far this can go. For what it's worth, it's still civil.
 

Tide Hunter

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2019
947
1,339
I'll cut down on what there is I'm responding to, to not endlessly rehash things and make this much less aggravating. I previously wanted to stop, but I'm bad at following my own advice. It's not really short, but it's more focused on specific points, rather than this line-by-line response thing.
Taldahs is only ruling if you let him live and his only descendent is female. The Winter City is currently ruled by a queen. I acknowledged Khor'minos has a king, but I must have missed the part where it said that Tychris had a king. The vast majority of national/regional/tribal rulers so far encountered in the story have been female.

And I am very much aware that Savarra is not Earth, but since patriarchies are very much the norm for Earth, it wouldn't be a bad idea to explain why matriarchies are seemingly the norm in Savarrra. Or at least The Frost Marches.
Why need an explanation, when we can see that there are many super strong women? There's a principle in storytelling called "show, don't tell." I'm certain you've heard of it. Well, we've been shown that there's plenty of strong women, and plenty of smart women, who are just as capable, if not moreso, than many of the men. Not to mention that several societies are shown as biologically more disposed towards female leaders. The Hornets follow a queen, who birthed them. The Boreal Elves have two feminine sexes and one male sex, which shifts the proportions towards more women. The Marefolk can't have male leaders because males get rabies when becoming adults.
Are people being terrorized? Because the citizens of Hawkethorne, The Kitsune Den, Khor'minos, etc. Don't seem to bothered about what's going on. Because you're right, there are people being raped, killed, transformed against their will - but The Frost Marches is largely reacting to it all with a collective shrug.
Khor'minos is fighting a war, the people of Hawkethorne have withdrawn from trade and forestry and are staying walled up in their village, and the kitsune have kept themselves sealed off from the outside for so long that most of them probably weren't able to notice it due to isolationism. It's pretty clear that the people are bothered.
I think it's important because they're humanoid first, extra bits second. You see, there's an established "inner-logic" within the game in regards to the sentient races: They all have humanoid features, two arms, a head, a tongue, a nose, a penis and/or vagina... even reptiloid races like the salamanders have breasts.

So as you can see, most of the races are designed to be physically attractive to us humans - which is why they consistently have these features - human features. And while it's true that not every race has wings, or tails, or claws, etc. When so many women have penises (and no men do) it comes off as horny wish-fulfillment, and nothing more.

Again, I understand that people want to write what they want to write. And I'm only bringing this up because it can be very easily explained but isn't.
But, again, why? If you want an explanation on why a race has cocked females, then it's either "evolution found it advantageous" or "the god that made that race wanted them to have cocks". If you want an explanation for why many women chose to grow cocks, it's not socially unacceptable in any location and alchemy is a longstanding thing.
"A good chunk of them are male."

Who? Name names. Name every single living male national/regional/tribal leader that we meet that doesn't get removed and replaced by a woman.
I don't know if we meet the Khor'minos king. Taldahs isn't replaced with Ahmri though, because in the timeline where Taldahs is killed, Ahmri is kidnapped, and you, the Champion, assume control of the tribe. We will meet the king of Tychris, eventually, when the region gets added to the game, though that's still a while off. The Marked Men Mercs are run by a man, and though it's temporarily being run by a woman, she's way less competent than the literally immortal man who actually runs the mercs, whenever he deigns to show up. How many female leaders are there? There's Alissa&Etheryn for the winter city, Komari, Atani, Nyzerrah, and Arona. I'm not counting Ahmri, because, again, she never rules, she just gets kidnapped in the timeline where Taldahs dies. There's not that many leaders in the game overall, so, discounting the king of Tychris, I still say that a sizable chunk of the leaders are male. If we had, say, 10 more region or group leaders around, and all of those were female or futa, I'd say there's a clear imbalance, but with this sample size, it's just a female lean. It is majority female, sure, but it's not an overwhelming female landslide.
I've done the Convocation of Mirrors - which just reinforces my point about them being "real."

And sure, there are healing spells. Alchemical treatments, the like. White mages are great and all.

Oh. But there's this thing called a black mage that can literally set you on fire with the flick of a wrist. Who can summon beings of pure chaos and fire. Who can move earth, and call down lightning on their foes.

So as much good as a white mage might do, a black mage could do as much bad.

And you're right, grim dark is about tone. Nobody seems to care that people are raped or murdered and the like in this "light-hearted" game.
The fire, lightning, earth stuff would be really devastating, if it weren't for the fact that many of our foes treat it like foreplay. Most of the time, after a battle, enemies are just kinda battered, not even unconscious, just beaten up enough that they'd rather not fight more. You can blast a group of horny naked elves with an inferno and a lightning storm, and break their eardrums, and blind them, and poison them, and they say "wow, that was fun! Let's fuck now." Clearly, the people of Savarra are way more resilient than the people of earth. It's very rare for people to die, outside of the occasional dark spots.
"There aren't enough people to unite."

[Citation needed]

"Mobilizing and transporting troops to a distant part of the world takes time."

So what's stopping The Champion from using The Ways Between to quickly bring in help? Instead of chasing Kas around, why aren't we going to the major cities and at least making sure that everyone knows that things are going down in The Frost Marches?
In the people count, the individual settlements are spread out and isolated. If all of them got together, they'd be much stronger, but Khor'minos, the strongest power in the region, completely quarantined the mountain, the Winter City hasn't been in contact with Hawkthorne for decades, the Kitsune are feared and distrusted by everyone here, the Marefolk are too far south for help to go between it and Hawkethorne without getting kidnapped by centaurs, the centaurs got corrupted and started fighting, the Hornets got corrupted and started fighting, the Orcs are a bunch of raiders who got here and decided to start raiding because that's what they did (sidenote, there's a scene in the Khor'minos bathhouse if you bring Arona where it's shown that the Minotaurs are definitely racist against the orcs), the Marked Men Mercs fell into disarray when the leader took a vacation and as such started fighting and pillaging rather than being the defense force they were hired to be. There's enough people that they could unite, but the groups are all either isolated from each other or fighting each other, and the individual groups aren't large enough to push back and unite with each other despite the adversities, if they're even willing to reach out.

As for the Ways Between, there are a few instances when characters were talking about the Ways Between, which should probably have let you know why. The old system of idols fell into disrepair after the Godswar, and almost nobody had the knowledge or resources to fix them up and use them, aside from a few isolated individuals (and the kitsune, but they have a modified version which is its own private network, connected only to other Kitsune torii gates). The Way Walker title tells you, travel in the Ways Between was a closely kept secret of the Estelore mages, and as you've done the Convocation, you know that Estelore was annihilated first by the Wraiths. The Champion can't use it to go to major far off cities, because the pathways and idols simply are not connected. It's like taking a train to a location when the rails and stations have completely fallen apart.
 

luciel1331

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2021
347
348
I didn't know that, how do I get Ahmri kidnapped?
If you choose to kill Taldahs instead of talking to him. She gets kidnapped if you decide to corrupt the centaur village. Post corrupt centaur village doesn't have content right now so I personally don't recommend doing it right now (since there's really nothing to gain like hive corrupt route).
 
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SmithEK

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2021
1,862
1,794
32
If you choose to kill Taldahs instead of talking to him. She gets kidnapped if you decide to corrupt the centaur village. Post corrupt centaur village doesn't have content right now so I personally don't recommend doing it right now (since there's really nothing to gain like hive corrupt route).
Ah I see, thanks.
 

Oh Philomena

Active Member
Jan 20, 2022
41
169
33
Dude. Pursang. This is a fetish porn game primarily targeted at people who want to have sex with women.

The writers who contribute here put a lot of effort into building their world, creating great characters and giving it a sense of history, but it is all orbiting around a central directive of "make our target audience horny and create situations for sex to occur."

Why are there so many woman leaders? Because this is a fetish porn game primarily targeted at people who want to have sex with women. Why are the ingame communities relatively functional and accessible from a player perspective? Why is the war effort not given more in-depth strategic focus? Because this is a fetish porn game and not Pathologic or Civ.

Horniness is one of the least logical parts of the human experience. CoC2 is a big, horny theme park with a story that takes you from one horny attraction to the next. I like it a lot and have never really wanted or needed it to be explained beyond that.
 

AStrangeGeek

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2022
85
87
The writers who contribute here put a lot of effort into building their world, creating great characters and giving it a sense of history, but it is all orbiting around a central directive of "make our target audience horny and create situations for sex to occur."
I was rather surprised how much depth this game had when I decided to give it a try. There was actually a solid backplot, and Kas is not just a cardboard-cutout villain. She has some depth to her to the point that I look forward to my interactions with her. It's even solid as a plain RPG. As much as I like sexy scenes, I have to have a healthy dollop of plot to go with the sex.

That said, I do admit to being mystified over the debate here. This is indeed first and foremost a game about sex, and a fantasy world to boot that has no resemblance to Earth, so naturally things are going to be skewed towards a combination of what the authors and the majority of the players are going to find erotic. There's things in the game that are not quite my cup of tea, but I understand someone has a thing for it, so that's why it's in the game.

No game about sex is going to appeal to absolutely everyone. You'll drive yourself mad if you try to cater to everyone.
 

WolframL

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2020
3,591
5,119
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I'm going to make one more response and then I'm going to drop this, because this is going in circles. And I'll avoid rehashing things that Tide Hunter has already addressed because I think the point has been made.
The best fantasy stories (like for instance, Lord of the Rings) use our own world as a starting point because it's extremely important to convey understanding through context, especially when things become unfamiliar and bizarre.
Yes, and Savarra does just that. It also draws on various well-established fantasy tropes, mixes them with historical models and the output is a very interesting world. And just as the game does not require an explanation for why there are orcs and dragons and catfolk and elves (none of which exist in the real world outside of stories) it does not require an explanation for why any given percentage of women have penises, or why any given state has a female in charge instead of a male, or why Hawkthorne has a racially mixed population that's getting along. Reason: BECAUSE.
Heh. When you wrote this, I'm sure you meant it as a "haha, got you!" moment - but in fact I've been thinking about contributing in the writing department for a while now.
Actually no, that is the stock response from the devs whenever someone talks about wanting specific content in the game which they don't have any plans to write and hence what others of us will suggest as well. If you think you have something to contribute, submissions are open.
That aside, you seem a little hung up on the fact that Savarra isn't the real world, even though you really should be hung up on why it doesn't make as much sense as the real world.
The 'real world' is, by definition, 100% maximally realistic. Any world we create in fiction is going to be less real and thus not match it. I see no reason to waste time getting hung up on a fictional world not matching it.
By all means, point me to a quote from Savin in which he says that CoC 2 doesn't take place in the same universe as CoC 1, or that certain characters within the game aren't from Mareth - the world that CoC 1 takes place in.
I said same world by which I meant planet, not same universe. And the devs could not be more clear on the whole 'CoC2 is not CoC1' thing.
Could you imagine if the rest of humanity shared your worldview? "Well this virus is killing all of us, we don't know why it's killing all of us as it's seemingly come out of nowhere! Oh well! It was born that way! Better not question it!" - Probably something that you would say.
Strawman arguments do not make you look cool.
Wsan doesn't have to justify why some dryad's have penises. Just like Savin doesn't have to justify why some Snow Elves have penises - but it'd be nice to get context as to why Savarra is different than Earth - so that we can better understand and appreciate the world.
Because they wrote it to be different. If you must have a Watsonian explanation, 'because the world has things ours does not like gods and magic and things evolved differently'. There you go.
Will happen? It's literally unavoidable if you want to pick it and you don't have any foreknowledge of the consequences of it other than sex. There is not a single sign-post!
Fine, I will grant you that this one case is not signposted. The rest are.
Less I involve the admins.

If I where you, I'd take the L and move on.
Really? I haven't heard someone use 'I'll tell on you!' since I was twelve. This is a forum for adults and a lot of people here are snarky. Trying to act 'tough' like this does not impress.
 

Kyubi Xiaolong

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2022
212
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this is a weird one.... the fact that the kitsune mother languge is just not some random dialouge in Japanese kanji.... but i also get why its done the way it is
 

Alypia

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2016
1,364
3,611
this is a weird one.... the fact that the kitsune mother languge is just not some random dialouge in Japanese kanji.... but i also get why its done the way it is
The kits speaking Literally Japanese and the elves speaking Literally Swedish is a joke.

Mostly.
 

Kyubi Xiaolong

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2022
212
59
36
The kits speaking Literally Japanese and the elves speaking Literally Swedish is a joke.

Mostly.
i dont see the swedish and elf connection.... but i do see the japanese and kitsune/tanuki connection..... specially since both are japanese origin, the kitsune culture is very similar to japanese culture during the tokugawa shogunate, and their culinary and military habits.... and concept of shame and punishment are also very similar so forgive for seeing alot of my culture in them and not as a joke
 

WolframL

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2020
3,591
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this is a weird one.... the fact that the kitsune mother languge is just not some random dialouge in Japanese kanji.... but i also get why its done the way it is
Thiink of it as Fantasy Japanese, in the same way that everyone is speaking English but the characters are probably not 'really' speaking it., except this isn't Tolkien so nobody is inventing complete languages and even he was gracious enough to 'translate' Lord of the Rings for our reading pleasure.

The main reason we don't get details on their language (not counting Silly Mode, which features some examples of actual Japanese text) is because the Champ canonically does not speak or read the language and cannot learn to do so in the handful of months during which the game takes place.
i dont see the swedish and elf connection
The boer'alvar take some cultural cues from Scandinavia (and the islander orcs take different ones) and Aly maaaay have written a few more into her scenes if you turn on Silly Mode, though they're no more canon than anything else you'll see in that mode.

...except the Silly Mode bit about never waking a sleeping cat, because that is just capital-t Truth.
 
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Alypia

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Apr 22, 2016
1,364
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so forgive for seeing alot of my culture in them and not as a joke
Ah. I wasn't saying that Japanese culture was a joke. The floofs are very obviously Inspired By Real-World Japan. I was saying that literally speaking the exact same language as historical Japanese is a joke, because the kitsune lines only get directly translated to Japanese in Silly Mode. Same with elves and Swedish.
 

Rudra72

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Jun 16, 2022
65
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A minor, minor nitpick I have - I wish silly mode was well, a bit modular. I want to see the comedic scenes and the Easter eggs, for example, but I don't want the currency to be "fur gold"
 
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