Your gripes with CoC II

[pinkcaitgang]

Well, I don't want to be the "change bad" guy, but here are my feelings about it.
For me, I didnt really care about the dog people from the start (now i do because i started reading at some point), so I just kind of ignored dog days. Went up, got Etheryn, did a bunch of stuff, eventually did Dog Days as I think I realized I needed it to go to the winter castle. When i finally did Dog Days, and Etheryn shyly yet boldly attempted to parley hethia, it felt like such a NATURAL way of showing her journey in gaining confidence! Hethia's refusal to acknowledge her due to prejudice was scathing, but Etheryn dealt with it like a champ. I really connected to her in that moment, and thanks to that interaction, when you later do invade winter city alongside Hethia, and she acknowledges Etheryn as "Princess", that hit me. Etheryn is easily my favorite character since, (helps that I also naturally triggered the winter festivus almost immediately after taking back the city, as well...)
So yeah, I know my experience wasnt everyone's, but it seems sad to me to take away the option to have that experience.

 

[Angelica1996]

well as long as my douchebag characters can have a heated very hostile argument with hethia in the court when she sees me again after i beat her, i dont mind the change.

 

[wery12345]

Well, I don't want to be the "change bad" guy, but here are my feelings about it.
For me, I didnt really care about the dog people from the start (now i do because i started reading at some point), so I just kind of ignored dog days. Went up, got Etheryn, did a bunch of stuff, eventually did Dog Days as I think I realized I needed it to go to the winter castle. When i finally did Dog Days, and Etheryn shyly yet boldly attempted to parley hethia, it felt like such a NATURAL way of showing her journey in gaining confidence! Hethia's refusal to acknowledge her due to prejudice was scathing, but Etheryn dealt with it like a champ. I really connected to her in that moment, and thanks to that interaction, when you later do invade winter city alongside Hethia, and she acknowledges Etheryn as "Princess", that hit me. Etheryn is easily my favorite character since, (helps that I also naturally triggered the winter festivus almost immediately after taking back the city, as well...)
So yeah, I know my experience wasnt everyone's, but it seems sad to me to take away the option to have that experience.

The issue with THe original fog days was it was writtn before they fleshed out Ryns characters, and holy fucking shit has a single god damn sentence in that quest caused a lot of problems.

 

[SmithEK]

My gripe is Garrett being a man.. I would like a female futa character similar to him, that is dominate and Lupine. And no Arona doesn't count. So really my gripe is there are no futa Lupines.

 

[wery12345]

Well considering the fact they just introduced corrupted lupines, you may get your wish, maybe.

 

[SmithEK]

Well considering the fact they just introduced corrupted lupines, you may get your wish, maybe.

All are men

 

[MarcoPolo121]

The change to Dog Days hasn't happened yet, but it's coming. The main rationale for the change is that so much stuff is gated behind Dog Days that turning it into a main quest made sense. There are at least four quests gated behind completing it (Shades of the Past, Oh Father..., the resolution of Winter Wolf and from that, High Ground) along with all of Garret's incidental content, so requiring that quest ensures that you can't miss out on any of that.

I get this rationale, but it's still a shame to remove it given it's one of my favourite moments for Etheryn's character arc too.

Gating the Wayfort behind finishing Dog Days removes the ability to resolve the sequence with Ryn but on the other hand most players aren't likely to see that to begin with since the quest can be easily done before recruiting her, and it removes Hethia's really problematic conversation with her, which is a mess of early writing before Ryn was fully developed as a character and before some important boer'alvar lore was nailed down. Easier to remove the whole thing than to rewrite the entire exchange.

You mean the bit where she misgenders Etheryn? That was pretty rough, but didn't feel unexpected given how much trans people get mocked, belittled and scorned in real life these days.

My gripe is Garrett being a man.. I would like a female futa character similar to him, that is dominate and Lupine. And no Arona doesn't count. So really my gripe is there are no futa Lupines.

The lack of futa Lupines is a bit surprising, given the writers' obvious love of dominant women with cocks. ahem Evelyn, Arona, Kasyrra, Orlaith, Lyla, Amara, etc. Granted, some of them also have switchy/sub content but, still.

 

[pinkcaitgang]

You mean the bit where she misgenders Etheryn? That was pretty rough, but didn't feel unexpected given how much trans people get mocked, belittled and scorned in real life these days. See also,

Yeah, exactly! I don't know what wery is referring to with "caused a lot of problems", but I felt that, given the conclusion to the story, that was net positive representation. Maybe that's not the problems they were referring to tho

 

[WolframL]

I get this rationale, but it's still a shame to remove it given it's one of my favourite moments for Etheryn's character arc too.

Don't get me wrong, I love high-Con Ryn's parley scene too but the rest of the content had so many issues that I can see why removing it entirely was easier than having to rewrite that part of the quest.

You mean the bit where she misgenders Etheryn? That was pretty rough, but didn't feel unexpected given how much trans people get mocked, belittled and scorned in real life these days.

Yeah, the thing is that it makes no sense in-universe because at no other point is it suggested that elves of any stripe are prejudiced against those born intersex, which is a significant chunk of the population. It gets even worse when you do Specter of the Wyld and learn that not only was one of Ryn's maternal grandmothers half-sexed but the druids consider Synneva to be a martyr.

Basically, the whole sequence just doesn't fit with anything that was later established about boer'alvar culture and history and it exists because it was written before a lot of things were finalized.

The lack of futa Lupines is a bit surprising, given the writers' obvious love of dominant women with cocks. ahem Evelyn, Arona, Kasyrra, Orlaith, Lyla, Amara, etc. Granted, some of them also have switchy/sub content but, still.

Less surprising when you consider that Savin, who loves dommy ladies with big dicks, isn't into furries. In general the preferences of the writers and fans of the game seem to be towards 'more humanoid'.

We do have Anna and Morwen who are half-lupine with doggy dicks, but also no vaginas.

 

[wery12345]

Yeah, exactly! I don't know what wery is referring to with "caused a lot of problems", but I felt that, given the conclusion to the story, that was net positive representation. Maybe that's not the problems they were referring to tho

People using it as a jusification to call Ryn "he", when it was Heithia just being a bitch.

 

[pinkcaitgang]

People using it as a jusification to call Ryn "he", when it was Heithia just being a bitch.

Oh christ. Glad I wasn't here for that.

 

[MarcoPolo121]

Don't get me wrong, I love high-Con Ryn's parley scene too but the rest of the content had so many issues that I can see why removing it entirely was easier than having to rewrite that part of the quest.

Maybe. Guess adding stuff in out of order made it harder to keep a straight line of A leads to B leads to C, D, E, F and G event-wise.

Yeah, the thing is that it makes no sense in-universe because at no other point is it suggested that elves of any stripe are prejudiced against those born intersex, which is a significant chunk of the population. It gets even worse when you do Specter of the Wyld and learn that not only was one of Ryn's maternal grandmothers half-sexed but the druids consider Synneva to be a martyr.

Basically, the whole sequence just doesn't fit with anything that was later established about boer'alvar culture and history and it exists because it was written before a lot of things were finalized.

Reminds me of past debates of whether Etheryn should have the option to get a vagina. And that dream that snuck in where she has a vagina and champ eats her out.

Less surprising when you consider that Savin, who loves dommy ladies with big dicks, isn't into furries. In general the preferences of the writers and fans of the game seem to be towards 'more humanoid'.

We do have Anna and Morwen who are half-lupine with doggy dicks, but also no vaginas.

I mean, I knew Savin had a preference for nekomimi types, but I figured at least someone would write an NPC or enemy Lupine futa with a domme bent just by law of averages.

 

[valk42]

people like to complain about futadom, but I would offer a compromise

dgirl domme who only uses her ass; strict powerbottom

my gripe is that she doesn't already exist

 

[MarcoPolo121]

I like that idea. I mean, if futas as imagined in CoC, TiTS and associates existed, it follows that they would have a broad range of sexual tastes just like ordinary men and women.

 

[It'sYaGirlCara]

I do have some gripes based on some language used in the character's description when certain options are selected. What I'm referring to is the use of the terms shemale and futa and similar language. It's kinda disrespectful to transwomen and turned me off... for a little bit as a fetishisation of transwomen specifically. Impo, it would be best to simply change it to be "female" or whatever is used for the cis female characters and I checked, FIM is a ton more disrespectful so that should be considered off the table. I have also heard that intersex is preferred over hermaphrodite but I'm much less uncertain about such a thing.

If these changes are not going to be made/considered I would like to, at least, be told how to make them on my personal copy if possible.

 

[WolframL]

What I'm referring to is the use of the terms shemale and futa and similar language. It's kinda disrespectful to transwomen and turned me off.

See Savin's comments here and here (for TiTS, but the same thinking applies) for why the terms are used and why they aren't changing.

If these changes are not going to be made/considered I would like to, at least, be told how to make them on my personal copy if possible.

You don't. It's completely unrelated to your discomfort with the language but the devs absolutely loathe mods due to the shitstorm that the CoC1 modding scene represents, so you're never going to see them open up CoC2's code to tinkering.

 

[MarcoPolo121]

Oh boy... I can already feel the migraine coming on.

 

[wery12345]

Like its alway "is a derogatory term" but my issue is, when and where did this become a thing? Ive only ever seen it used in games like this where its makes sense.

 

[TheShepard256]

I have also heard that intersex is preferred over hermaphrodite but I'm much less uncertain about such a thing.

Only in real life. "Intersex" refers to individuals where there's some degree of ambiguity about which sex they are, which can range from "can't tell whether their genitals are male or female" to "they clearly have one sex's genitals, but they also have the other sex's sex chromosomes"; calling these individuals hermaphrodites is both factually incorrect and carries a lot of baggage from the days before LGBTQI+ rights were a thing (where "hermaphrodite" was commonly used to refer to intersex people). "Hermaphrodite" refers to individuals with both male and female genitals (whether at the same time or different times); such individuals are currently impossible in real-life humans, but they're not uncommon in these games (though they're generally of the "at the same time" variety).

On your post in general: TiTS has implemented a system that allows for custom replacement of such terms; since it and CoC2 are very similar at the coding level, it's definitely possible to implement a similar system in CoC2. Whether or not that will happen, however, is another matter entirely.

 

[wery12345]

, it's definitely possible to implement a similar system in CoC2. Whether or not that will happen

Not its not, because different people coding, its why basically nothing from TiTs has ever come over to this.

 

[TheShepard256]

Not its not, because different people coding, its why basically nothing from TiTs has ever come over to this.

I don't see how "different people coding" = "can't implement a similar system". I'm sure the TiTS team would be willing to provide a copy of the relevant code if the CoC2 team asks, and from there it'd be even easier to implement for CoC2 than it was for TiTS because a) the groundwork has already been established and b) CoC2 has a smaller word count than TiTS, so any search-and-replace that would need to occur won't take as much time.

 

[SmithEK]

Why has futa been included? It's literally a made up word for those with both sexes (which technically doesn't exist) and has nothing to do with trans bloody gender.

 

[WolframL]

Why has futa been included? It's literally a made up word for those with both sexes

Less 'made up' and more 'foreign'; It's the Japanese word for hermaphrodite (and considerably older than its modern usage in porn) so it's only as made up as any word is.

 

[SmithEK]

Less 'made up' and more 'foreign'; It's the Japanese word for hermaphrodite (and considerably older than its modern usage in porn) so it's only as made up as any word is.

Yeah I get that but why is futa suddenly an offensive word?

 

[ForeverLurker]

It's like there trying to create they're own N word. And personally I think it's a really bad thing to do. This is comming from a black man. Just enjoy the text game

 

[TheIrishOtaku]

Yeah I get that but why is futa suddenly an offensive word?

This is literally the first time I've seen somebody get offended over its use. Guys, its a god damn porn game and its a hentai term. As a card carrying degenerate I'm getting sick and tired of people who don't even seem to understand what words like this mean jumping on here and whining about them.

 

[Spidereggs]

Technically, every player character in CoC2 is a hermaphrodite of some stripe - as they have the capacity (magical as it may be) to change from one sex to another, given the right conditions, which is called Sequential Hermaphroditism. Though in real life biology, it tends to be a little more constrained and, to my knowledge (but there could be some contrary example I just don't know about), one way only (for a given species) - see clownfish, for instance, where all the fish are born male, and the lack of a female in the group provokes the largest male to become a female, which then mates with the now largest male.

But that's enough of a tangent on biology, resume!

 

[Kesil]

tl;dr
Porn isn't real life and content creators rely on that (or might not know any better), I guess one takes for granted that people already knew that smut words used to describe entire races which are born that way or can change with a potion=! real trans people who are sadly subjected to slurs and the ilk. If only one could find words to designate fantasy females who were born with male genitalia or fantasy males who were born with female genitalia...

 

[Ria Brew]

As a transgirl I get why it's unfortunate that the wording is the way it is, but as a programmer I absolutely understand the choice. Having personally experienced the hell that too many conditionals plays on code and how it tends to spaghettify everything, I can't blame anyone for wanting to avoid that noodle nightmare. That, and as many have already stated, shemale as it pertains to the game world is fundamentally different than what it means irl in that it governs a naturally occurring sex characteristic instead of implying transition. I'd even go so far as to argue that the people of Savarra are way more progressive in that sense in that it doesn't really matter to anyone who you used to be, it matters who you are now. Would kill to get that kinda treatment honestly.

 

[pinkcaitgang]

I do have some gripes based on some language used in the character's description when certain options are selected. What I'm referring to is the use of the terms shemale and futa and similar language. It's kinda disrespectful to transwomen and turned me off... for a little bit as a fetishisation of transwomen specifically. Impo, it would be best to simply change it to be "female" or whatever is used for the cis female characters and I checked, FIM is a ton more disrespectful so that should be considered off the table. I have also heard that intersex is preferred over hermaphrodite but I'm much less uncertain about such a thing.

If these changes are not going to be made/considered I would like to, at least, be told how to make them on my personal copy if possible.

This seems to be an issue multiple people are having so I wonder if the best solution would be a toggle in the options menu