Your gripes with CoC II

[It'sYaGirlCara]

I do have some gripes based on some language used in the character's description when certain options are selected. What I'm referring to is the use of the terms shemale and futa and similar language. It's kinda disrespectful to transwomen and turned me off... for a little bit as a fetishisation of transwomen specifically. Impo, it would be best to simply change it to be "female" or whatever is used for the cis female characters and I checked, FIM is a ton more disrespectful so that should be considered off the table. I have also heard that intersex is preferred over hermaphrodite but I'm much less uncertain about such a thing.

If these changes are not going to be made/considered I would like to, at least, be told how to make them on my personal copy if possible.

 

[WolframL]

What I'm referring to is the use of the terms shemale and futa and similar language. It's kinda disrespectful to transwomen and turned me off.

See Savin's comments here and here (for TiTS, but the same thinking applies) for why the terms are used and why they aren't changing.

If these changes are not going to be made/considered I would like to, at least, be told how to make them on my personal copy if possible.

You don't. It's completely unrelated to your discomfort with the language but the devs absolutely loathe mods due to the shitstorm that the CoC1 modding scene represents, so you're never going to see them open up CoC2's code to tinkering.

 

[MarcoPolo121]

Oh boy... I can already feel the migraine coming on.

 

[wery12345]

Like its alway "is a derogatory term" but my issue is, when and where did this become a thing? Ive only ever seen it used in games like this where its makes sense.

 

[TheShepard256]

I have also heard that intersex is preferred over hermaphrodite but I'm much less uncertain about such a thing.

Only in real life. "Intersex" refers to individuals where there's some degree of ambiguity about which sex they are, which can range from "can't tell whether their genitals are male or female" to "they clearly have one sex's genitals, but they also have the other sex's sex chromosomes"; calling these individuals hermaphrodites is both factually incorrect and carries a lot of baggage from the days before LGBTQI+ rights were a thing (where "hermaphrodite" was commonly used to refer to intersex people). "Hermaphrodite" refers to individuals with both male and female genitals (whether at the same time or different times); such individuals are currently impossible in real-life humans, but they're not uncommon in these games (though they're generally of the "at the same time" variety).

On your post in general: TiTS has implemented a system that allows for custom replacement of such terms; since it and CoC2 are very similar at the coding level, it's definitely possible to implement a similar system in CoC2. Whether or not that will happen, however, is another matter entirely.

 

[wery12345]

, it's definitely possible to implement a similar system in CoC2. Whether or not that will happen

Not its not, because different people coding, its why basically nothing from TiTs has ever come over to this.

 

[TheShepard256]

Not its not, because different people coding, its why basically nothing from TiTs has ever come over to this.

I don't see how "different people coding" = "can't implement a similar system". I'm sure the TiTS team would be willing to provide a copy of the relevant code if the CoC2 team asks, and from there it'd be even easier to implement for CoC2 than it was for TiTS because a) the groundwork has already been established and b) CoC2 has a smaller word count than TiTS, so any search-and-replace that would need to occur won't take as much time.

 

[SmithEK]

Why has futa been included? It's literally a made up word for those with both sexes (which technically doesn't exist) and has nothing to do with trans bloody gender.

 

[WolframL]

Why has futa been included? It's literally a made up word for those with both sexes

Less 'made up' and more 'foreign'; It's the Japanese word for hermaphrodite (and considerably older than its modern usage in porn) so it's only as made up as any word is.

 

[SmithEK]

Less 'made up' and more 'foreign'; It's the Japanese word for hermaphrodite (and considerably older than its modern usage in porn) so it's only as made up as any word is.

Yeah I get that but why is futa suddenly an offensive word?

 

[ForeverLurker]

It's like there trying to create they're own N word. And personally I think it's a really bad thing to do. This is comming from a black man. Just enjoy the text game

 

[TheIrishOtaku]

Yeah I get that but why is futa suddenly an offensive word?

This is literally the first time I've seen somebody get offended over its use. Guys, its a god damn porn game and its a hentai term. As a card carrying degenerate I'm getting sick and tired of people who don't even seem to understand what words like this mean jumping on here and whining about them.

 

[Spidereggs]

Technically, every player character in CoC2 is a hermaphrodite of some stripe - as they have the capacity (magical as it may be) to change from one sex to another, given the right conditions, which is called Sequential Hermaphroditism. Though in real life biology, it tends to be a little more constrained and, to my knowledge (but there could be some contrary example I just don't know about), one way only (for a given species) - see clownfish, for instance, where all the fish are born male, and the lack of a female in the group provokes the largest male to become a female, which then mates with the now largest male.

But that's enough of a tangent on biology, resume!

 

[Kesil]

tl;dr
Porn isn't real life and content creators rely on that (or might not know any better), I guess one takes for granted that people already knew that smut words used to describe entire races which are born that way or can change with a potion=! real trans people who are sadly subjected to slurs and the ilk. If only one could find words to designate fantasy females who were born with male genitalia or fantasy males who were born with female genitalia...

 

[Ria Brew]

As a transgirl I get why it's unfortunate that the wording is the way it is, but as a programmer I absolutely understand the choice. Having personally experienced the hell that too many conditionals plays on code and how it tends to spaghettify everything, I can't blame anyone for wanting to avoid that noodle nightmare. That, and as many have already stated, shemale as it pertains to the game world is fundamentally different than what it means irl in that it governs a naturally occurring sex characteristic instead of implying transition. I'd even go so far as to argue that the people of Savarra are way more progressive in that sense in that it doesn't really matter to anyone who you used to be, it matters who you are now. Would kill to get that kinda treatment honestly.

 

[pinkcaitgang]

I do have some gripes based on some language used in the character's description when certain options are selected. What I'm referring to is the use of the terms shemale and futa and similar language. It's kinda disrespectful to transwomen and turned me off... for a little bit as a fetishisation of transwomen specifically. Impo, it would be best to simply change it to be "female" or whatever is used for the cis female characters and I checked, FIM is a ton more disrespectful so that should be considered off the table. I have also heard that intersex is preferred over hermaphrodite but I'm much less uncertain about such a thing.

If these changes are not going to be made/considered I would like to, at least, be told how to make them on my personal copy if possible.

This seems to be an issue multiple people are having so I wonder if the best solution would be a toggle in the options menu

 

[Bast]

This seems to be an issue multiple people are having so I wonder if the best solution would be a toggle in the options menu

Kinda. But then after that someone else comes around that get's offended over a different word. Wouldn't wanna risk the chance of starting a chain reaction if I were the dev team.

Also how come there's bad words that offend people in this furry smut porn game but no one every takes issue with enemies never asking for consent?

 

[Kesil]

but no one every takes issue with enemies never asking for consent?

That has happened ever since the CoC days, with talks about "soft rape" popping up here and there.

 

[Bast]

"soft rape"

I never heard of that term. So "soft rape" isn't rape? Sounds like a very apologetic way to cope with the act.

 

[Kesil]

You tell me. Their words, not mine.

 

[Raginmund]

See Savin's comments here and here (for TiTS, but the same thinking applies) for why the terms are used and why they aren't changing.

You don't. It's completely unrelated to your discomfort with the language but the devs absolutely loathe mods due to the shitstorm that the CoC1 modding scene represents, so you're never going to see them open up CoC2's code to tinkering.

As TheShepard256 already mentioned, there is a system in place in TiTS that already accounts for terminology preferences, so I find it kind of ironic that you're referencing out of date information (at least for TiTS specifically), that by extent now makes CoC2 look worse by comparison.

Spoiler: Language Filters in TiTS

Not saying that what is seen in TiTS has to definitively be implemented in CoC2, but I find it kind of weird that you're dismissing somone's gripes about something on the basis of out of date information from Savin's posting (in relation to TiTS specifically).
Obviously the stance in relation to CoC2 is most likely still the same, but now being contrasted with the changes in TiTS does leave the options with regards to CoC2 rather lacking -- definitely something I'd say one can mention in the gripes thread, ya'know due to it being a personal opinion and fitting the theme of the thread...

Honestly seems like this thread and the "What content would you like added?" thread are often subjected to Well-Known Members / Developers / Moderators talking down to people that have gripes / suggestions (at least the ones that are seemingly deemed "controversial" by this forums "standards") -- which is quite sad to see.

 

[WolframL]

Yes, that's what the topic is for. It doesn't mean other people can't point out that this topic has come up before and the devs have made their opinion pretty clear.

As far as that TiTS filter goes, bear in mind that (again) these are games being developed by different teams, including different leads and programmers. Tobs has even specifically commented on CoC2 not having things that TiTS has specifically because the teams are different. This was after the language filter got added to TiTS, so you can assume the same thinking applies.

 

[wery12345]

YEah when it comes to CoC2, the best way to aim our gripes is ignoring the exxistance of both TiTs and CoC1, because they have absolutely nothing to do with this(minus CoC1 with the world stuff).

 

[pinkcaitgang]

Honestly seems like this thread and the "What content would you like added?" thread are often subjected to Well-Known Members / Developers / Moderators talking down to people that have gripes / suggestions (at least the ones that are seemingly deemed "controversial" by this forums "standards") -- which is quite sad to see.

Seriously, that's half of the comments on both of these. If you aren't working on the game directly can you not tell others what is and isnt possible, or assert your opinions that "oh this shouldnt be a gripe"? Like, please find something else to do. It's really irritating to see, and discourages people from posting, for fear that they might be stricken with the "im not working on the game but in my expert opinion this could just never happen". Don't care. Didn't ask.

To be clear, some of you seem like fine enough people. But perhaps you've been around so long that shooting others down has become a habit created by boredom. I'd like to request that you ease off.

 

[Raginmund]

Yes, that's what the topic is for. It doesn't mean other people can't point out that this topic has come up before and the devs have made their opinion pretty clear.

As far as that TiTS filter goes, bear in mind that (again) these are games being developed by different teams, including different leads and programmers. Tobs has even specifically commented on CoC2 not having things that TiTS has specifically because the teams are different. This was after the language filter got added to TiTS, so you can assume the same thinking applies.

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I don't see how "different people coding" = "can't implement a similar system". I'm sure the TiTS team would be willing to provide a copy of the relevant code if the CoC2 team asks, and from there it'd be even easier to implement for CoC2 than it was for TiTS because a) the groundwork has already been established and b) CoC2 has a smaller word count than TiTS, so any search-and-replace that would need to occur won't take as much time.

Sorry for pinging you Shepard.

But yeah, I understand the reasoning, I just personally disagree with it. Much the same with the seemingly implied nature in which people are shut down, or talked down to in this thread and the "What content would you like added?" thread.

Again, not advocating for any changes, just find that it's possible to point out things without it being necessary to have everyone say "wElL tHE deVEloPErS sAId THiS, sO NO yOU'rE wROng".
People can have different opinions -- even differing opinions than that of the Developers / Moderators -- without it being necessary for conflict or some level of condescending tone / mockery. I know it's not applicable in all situations, and might not necessarily be intended within this specific context, but I think when it comes to things that are opinion based it tends to be unnecessary to seemingly talk down to others, at least in my opinion.

 

[wery12345]

I mean they can, its just when similar stuff shows up its best to just remind them of the reason why it was ignored before.

 

[Raginmund]

I mean they can, its just when similar stuff shows up its best to just remind them of the reason why it was ignored before.

I get that, but that assumes that everyone who posts in these two threads (this and the likes one) does so with the goal of having their likes / dislikes added / addressed in the game.

I'd argue that that's not always the case, and when one is met with "No, this is not going happen for this reason, and that reason" it almost seems as though it's like "Why did you bother posting this in the first place? This is an obvious no, because of this and this, from x and y developer" -- and one is possibly given the impression of needing to search the forums / read the threads before posting again.

Maybe some people (especially new members) just want to say what they'd like to see in the likes thread, and what they dislike in the dislikes thread, without any expectations (or prior reading about whether their like / dislike was mentioned before). Talking them down from what they like / dislike might not be pleasant when they possibly might just wanted to express what they'd like to see / what they dislike, without any real forethought (or expectations) about it.

For example:
CoC2's "What content would you like added" thread
I'd like to be able to suplex Kasyrra!

CoC2's "Your gripes with CoC II" thread
I dislike that I can't ride Eubicha into battle! (No, not in that other way you might be thinking lol)

Both of these are probably not going to happen, but I can still express a like / dislike based upon them -- even if the developers have said no to them.
But that's not always the impression one gets when you get some people replying to you saying no to your like / dislike based upon what developers have said prior. Sometimes it seems like the original poster is to change their opinion (i.e. go back on what they like / dislike) based upon the response from what developers have supposedly said prior, or even based upon responses from developers themselves.
That's obviously not always the case, but it is an impression that can sometimes be garnered from some conversations in these two threads -- which is what I disagree with, if it is indeed the case in those specific conversations, it comes across as pretty dismissive and rude.

Anyways, sorry, I don't mean to go on about this too much.

 

[Soldier660]

YEah when it comes to CoC2, the best way to aim our gripes is ignoring the exxistance of both TiTs and CoC1, because they have absolutely nothing to do with this(minus CoC1 with the world stuff).

I mean you have to compare things with what came before to progress foward and making things better, there is not a thing where you just ignore what came before, thats just not progress and is nothing making something better or even more fun.

 

[Animalistic]

I have a complaint about Ariel and her grayed out button. So while I know that she is meant for dick only champs, her button still stays there, not clickable, so if you have no dick you can be a little confused as to why you can not seemingly interact with her. Maybe have a short scene where champion speaks to her, offers up sex and she refuses because you lack the necessary part?

I also think that Livreas relationship progression is maybe locked behind having a dick but I will have to double check. I know that she only has one/maybe 2 sex scene compared to dick champs six (so about as much romantic content as Livrea has with Arona), she was presented as someone that anyone can date and get serious with. Not counting her dates with both Arona and Cait, she also seemingly has sex and fuck buddy relationship with rest of her female friends.
I hope that it is a bug.

 

[wery12345]

I have a complaint about Ariel and her grayed out button. So while I know that she is meant for dick only champs, her button still stays there, not clickable, so if you have no dick you can be a little confused as to why you can not seemingly interact with her. Maybe have a short scene where champion speaks to her, offers up sex and she refuses because you lack the necessary part?

Your complaining about the button being there still yet its like that for every single other character in the game like she would be any different?