Your gripes with CoC II

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Oh Philomena

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Totally! :) It's just one of those things where different language is normal in different settings imo! And one of the things about the modern internet is that so many conversations take place in the same handful of settings, visible to huge numbers of people approaching from different angles and bringing different assumptions, that it's hard to just arrive at a place of compromise, nuance or understanding.

It's all good with me! I think this was an interesting talk! <3
 
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ForeverLurker

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Moving on...

I feel like the words "trap" or "trappy" are a bad choice on the basis of feeding into negative stereotypes about trans people and women especially, i.e. only pretending to be a woman, sexual predators by deception, preying on hetero men specifically etc. I mean that's what the word "trap" refers to, no?

I feel like if you really need multiple descriptive words for someone's nutsack, at least leave them out and replace them with, I dunno, "femmy", "femboy", "subby" at a stretch? I mean it's not perfect by any means but I feel it would at least be more tolerant.
I always wanted to ask someone who thinks "trap" is a slur. So are you a field trap or a house trap? Sorry for going there but I had to say my peace about the trap debate
 
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Oh Philomena

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Can we please drop this topic? I think it's a really sensitive and nuanced one, and a confrontational tone is unlikely to lead to a productive conversation.

Anyway!!! Gripes with CoC2!

I wish the "Be His Bitch" content with Garrett weren't locked behind a high lupine score, although I understand that both participants having doggie qualities is probably a core part of the fantasy. I just wish I could access that really well-written hardcore dom content without having to have a muzzle!
 

wery12345

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Both of garths kids have lupine locked content, it happens. Pretty sure a lot of kitsune content would have been locked behind being a kitsune(like the adorable Rindo concubine stuff) but unlike the 2 of those it's still getting content and is very fucking popular.
 
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Tide Hunter

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I wish the "Be His Bitch" content with Garrett weren't locked behind a high lupine score, although I understand that both participants having doggie qualities is probably a core part of the fantasy. I just wish I could access that really well-written hardcore dom content without having to have a muzzle!
I also wish there was a way to undo the opening of that content without needing to make yourself either not female or not lupine. I don't use the character anymore because her save was on Chrome, but I experienced the content on what was my main character at the time, and I really enjoyed it. Until one specific scene, in which he responds to the Champ asking for more sex by hitting the champ hard enough to send her to the floor with the justification of "you're pregnant and fucking more would hurt the baby." It wasn't the hitting part that bothered me, it was the pregnancy part.
 

Animalistic

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Yeah, but hitting a pregnant women goes, you know, above being an asshole and into psychopathic territory. Especially if your justification is "I do not want to hurt you or your child."
 

Oh Philomena

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For what it's worth, I believe that content may have been scaled back since you experienced it? I just did a quick run-through of his scenes and didn't see what you described — he'll flatout refuse some of the more extreme sex options when you're pregnant, although he will slap you (the slap is described as "not as hard as you would have liked") in one of the scenes where you suggest it.

I do agree that Garret's bitch content might benefit from a more thorough warning or an "out" once you've opted in, since the warning in place right now gives you a heads-up that you're signing up to experience some extreme content but doesn't specifically say what extreme content it is. I think the writers have always been pretty good at making it clear when you're in for something permanent/extreme but have gotten a lot better at being specific about what kind of content it is as the game's gone on — the warning before you take or don't take Rindo as your concubine is a great one.
 

Spidereggs

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I still don't understand how any word can offend someone.
You don't have to understand it, you just have to respect it. Offending without meaning to is still offending, and I find it's pretty integral to being a decent person to try to avoid causing undue hurt to others.
 

TheIrishOtaku

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You don't have to understand it, you just have to respect it. Offending without meaning to is still offending, and I find it's pretty integral to being a decent person to try to avoid causing undue hurt to others.
Offense is subjective, I find the fact that other people misunderstand and misuse the word trap offensive, but is there any consideration for my feelings? Also its a porn game, people really need to have thicker skin. Now, for the last time lets drop this.
 

wery12345

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I think the warnings are mostly located in tobs content, because I don't think most others have gotten there own content to the point of needing them, if I had to guess once corrupted companions happen your going to be very intament with the warnings.
 
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Jorr The Great

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You don't have to understand it, you just have to respect it. Offending without meaning to is still offending, and I find it's pretty integral to being a decent person to try to avoid causing undue hurt to others.
¿So the person who wrote the word "trap" should apologize or not?
¿He shouldn't do it anymore?
¿Maybe you can help me understand, how do I take responsibility if someone is offended for no reason like it was in this case?
¿ Or what do you mean respect?¿not answer him?
 

Aurore

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¿So the person who wrote the word "trap" should apologize or not?
¿He shouldn't do it anymore?
¿Maybe you can help me understand, how do I take responsibility if someone is offended for no reason like it was in this case?
¿ Or what do you mean respect?¿not answer him?
pls... put that aside.
 
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Kesil

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Talk about the wonders of language: one user types a message using upside down question marks, Spanish language style, and another one translates said message to Portuguese and forgets to leave it as-is :D
At this point. I think that General Bullshit could do with a language thread.

EDIT: I remember someone opened this thread on this very subforum: https://forum.fenoxo.com/threads/inappropriate-language.21842
 
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Aurore

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Talk about the wonders of language: one user types a message using upside down question marks, Spanish language style, and another one translates said message to Portuguese and forgets to leave it as-is :D
At this point. I think that General Bullshit could do with a language thread.

EDIT: I remember someone opened this thread on this very subforum: https://forum.fenoxo.com/threads/inappropriate-language.21842
sorry, I hadn't noticed.
 
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luciel1331

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For what it's worth, I believe that content may have been scaled back since you experienced it? I just did a quick run-through of his scenes and didn't see what you described — he'll flatout refuse some of the more extreme sex options when you're pregnant, although he will slap you (the slap is described as "not as hard as you would have liked") in one of the scenes where you suggest it.

I do agree that Garret's bitch content might benefit from a more thorough warning or an "out" once you've opted in, since the warning in place right now gives you a heads-up that you're signing up to experience some extreme content but doesn't specifically say what extreme content it is. I think the writers have always been pretty good at making it clear when you're in for something permanent/extreme but have gotten a lot better at being specific about what kind of content it is as the game's gone on — the warning before you take or don't take Rindo as your concubine is a great one.
Yeah it does warn you about the violent sex considering how Garrett is. I did enjoy be his bitch scenes and the masochistic sub scenes with Garrett, but it was much more hardcore than I thought. Wouldn't it be kind of hard to give more warning than that though without going into too much specific details and risk making the warning super long?
I also wish there was a way to undo the opening of that content without needing to make yourself either not female or not lupine. I don't use the character anymore because her save was on Chrome, but I experienced the content on what was my main character at the time, and I really enjoyed it. Until one specific scene, in which he responds to the Champ asking for more sex by hitting the champ hard enough to send her to the floor with the justification of "you're pregnant and fucking more would hurt the baby." It wasn't the hitting part that bothered me, it was the pregnancy part.
Which scenes are you talking about? One of my main is lupine female so I play Garrett's scenes a lot. The scenes I think you're talking about is punish scene which he hits pc hard on the wall and fucks her hard enough for the pc to fall to floor. Or it could be the degrade scene where pc ends up prostrating and Garrett steps on pc's head but it says not enough to truly hurt. But when the pc is pregnant, he won't do the punish scene and choke out scenes.

I think observer addressed why Garrett's content is locked behind being female and lupine. Something about their vision of Garrett and how they didn't want to make half-assed bi/gay scenes and rather make a character intended for that. Kind of paraphrasing but I remember they talked about this somewhere in the forum.....

While I do enjoy Garrett if he's too rough you might like Elyon. His scenes are also subbing with a bit of masochism mixed to it like the spanking scene. Not as intense as Garrett though. Talking about Elyon though he's really hot. Wish there would be more of his content......I really like his pet play scenes a lot. But probably not gonna happen bc I don't think he's that popular.....or at least I don't see too much ppl talking about him.
 
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Oh Philomena

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I think observer addressedwhy Garrett's content is locked behind being female and lupine. Something about their vision of Garrett and how they didn't want to make half-assed bi/gay scenes and rather make a character intended for that. Kind of paraphrasing but I remember they talked about this somewhere in the forum.....

While I do enjoy Garrett if he's too rough you might like Elyon. His scenes are also subbing with a bit of masochism mixed to it like the spanking scene. Not as intense as Garrett though. Talking about Elyon though he's really hot. Wish there would be more of his content......I really like his pet play scenes a lot. But probably not gonna happen bc I don't think he's that popular.....or at least I don't see too much ppl talking about him.

That totally makes sense! It's a specific fantasy and I understand Tobs' dedication to ensuring they can go all the way with it — going whole-hog (or whole-dog?) must make it much more cohesive and easier to write than it would be if he held back or made compromises. And much more satisfying to read for players whose thing is this exact thing. More power to them!

I like Elyon a lot! Super hot, great scenes, fleshes out the Winter City some more. I need to be more vocal about how much I enjoy the guys in this game, especially the ones who are dominant. I know it must feel like unrewarding work to write them sometimes, given where the bulk of player attention tends to go, but I promise players who prefer dudes are out here! There are dozens of us!
 

Wint3rRyd3r

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I think observer addressedwhy Garrett's content is locked behind being female and lupine. Something about their vision of Garrett and how they didn't want to make half-assed bi/gay scenes and rather make a character intended for that. Kind of paraphrasing but I remember they talked about this somewhere in the forum.....

Or Garrett has mommy problems as or almost as bad as Gwyn's daddy problems and they didn't want both siblings to get memed on.
 

Animalistic

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While I do enjoy Garrett if he's too rough you might like Elyon. His scenes are also subbing with a bit of masochism mixed to it like the spanking scene. Not as intense as Garrett though. Talking about Elyon though he's really hot. Wish there would be more of his content......I really like his pet play scenes a lot. But probably not gonna happen bc I don't think he's that popular.....or at least I don't see too much ppl talking about him.
Beyond Elyon being a guy which automatically makes him less likely to catch attention in the eyes of the fanbase, I do find him somewhat, how should I say, poorly presented.

Elyon quest kinds bums me out in how it leaves nothing to the player to decide. Instead of letting the player choose to help the damaged pretty boy on their own terms, Ryn forces it on us without our champion having say in the matter. Which not only makes it less personal on the players end but it also leads me feeling disconnected from my in game surrogate. Like, I as a player was following through it because I found him cute and I wanted to help Elyon. My champion on other hand was always antagonistic towards him and the only reason they seemed interesting in helping him was because "Ryn asked of us so." My champion feels as distant from him in the end as from the start of the quest. Which leads to the following sexy times feeling out of place. Since, before that, my champion genuinely felt like they found Elyone anything but a attractive.

Now, besides that major gripe, I do find his tsundere shtick kind of tiring. In context of the game mind you. Like, it is cute and I can see how it can develop further into him showing his feelings more openly. But at same time, in the game where it feels like most men have more interest in other people than the champion (Imad, Elf boy, Takahiro, Darius, Garret, Sugo...) it ends up as repetitive experience. Like, what does a girl/boy have to do to have a guy look at them and go "damn, you aint half bad!" without a caveat.

And also, when it comes to sex scenes, I do find them little bit to meme. Especially the whole hugging thing. And, as someone who likes to play guys with dicks, it feels like they were not designed to account us in mind. With how they never mention things such as prostate or giving us a handy down.

Still, beyond all this, I do want more content from him. As said, I do like his tsundere shtick. I am sucker for character arcs where the said characters mellows out and becomes more open. Maybe a marriage down the line? I can only hope.
 
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Kesil

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Some people like creativity in their smut despite how things would turn out to be in real life. The good and bad thing about fantasies is that they don't need to be doable (or enacted!) in real life.
 
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SmithEK

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I get that and not complaining.. I just don't like what both Garrett and Arona call MC.. Bitch.. that word, I don't know why but to me is just the worst. Call me a Cunt and that's fine but Bitch.
 
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TheIrishOtaku

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I get that and not complaining.. I just don't like what both Garrett and Arona call MC.. Bitch.. that word, I don't know why but to me is just the worst. Call me a Cunt and that's fine but Bitch.
I get its your personal preference but really? Bitch is a lot less rude than cunt in most peoples minds.
 

Spidereggs

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Perhaps a word filter & replacer like the JS version of TiTS has would help a lot of this sort of issues, if it's technically feasible for CoC2?
 
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