Your gripes with CoC II

[MarcoPolo121]

Moving on...

I feel like the words "trap" or "trappy" are a bad choice on the basis of feeding into negative stereotypes about trans people and women especially, i.e. only pretending to be a woman, sexual predators by deception, preying on hetero men specifically etc. I mean that's what the word "trap" refers to, no?

I feel like if you really need multiple descriptive words for someone's nutsack, at least leave them out and replace them with, I dunno, "femmy", "femboy", "subby" at a stretch? I mean it's not perfect by any means but I feel it would at least be more tolerant.

 

[Kesil]

Assuming that someone is submissive just because said someone's looks are feminine or just aims to confuse "hetero men" isn't any better.

 

[MarcoPolo121]

Okay, forget "subby" except for actual submissives or switches in submissive mode. But the point stands it's not best practice.

 

[Kingu2]

I mean that's what the word "trap" refers to, no?

No, Trap is a term referring to feminine looking men not trans women. Nobody really has a problem with the term either as it's not used in a derogatory or harmful way.

 

[TheIrishOtaku]

No, Trap is a term referring to feminine looking men not trans women. Nobody really has a problem with the term either as it's not used in a derogatory or harmful way.

Thank you!

 

[pinkcaitgang]

No, Trap is a term referring to feminine looking men not trans women. Nobody really has a problem with the term either as it's not used in a derogatory or harmful way.

This is just not true. People do have a problem with the term because of its implication. What exactly does the word "trap" mean? It implies that feminine looking men are actively trying to "trap" straight people into thinking they're girls, only to reveal, uh oh, they have a penis. The term started to describe an anime archetype where this exact same thing happens. I'm not a feminine looking man so this isn't my battle, but I really figured the CoC2 community would be a bit more aware of this kind of stuff, considering what exactly happens in ya'll's games.

Edit: In short, it also reduces a feminine looking man down to a single, "evil" purpose.

 

[TheIrishOtaku]

This is just not true. People do have a problem with the term because of its implication. What exactly does the word "trap" mean? It implies that feminine looking men are actively trying to "trap" straight people into thinking they're girls, only to reveal, uh oh, they have a penis. The term started to describe an anime archetype where this exact same thing happens. I'm not a feminine looking man so this isn't my battle, but I really figured the CoC2 community would be a bit more aware of this kind of stuff, considering what exactly happens in ya'll's games.

Edit: In short, it also reduces a feminine looking man down to a single, "evil" purpose.

Honestly, I think you're reading way too much into this. Its not a derogatory term, nor is it implying some nefarious plot on the part of the feminine dude to trick straight guys. In most anime and manga the joke is that the straight guy assumes that the cute boy is actually a girl and that leads to humorous situations. Its not treated as some evil thing, its often very funny and even leads to sweet and romantic situations too. Not to pull the whole ''I have a friend who's x card'' but in this case its called for, one of my dearest friends is male and very feminine and he not only has no problem with the word trap, he actively calls himself one. So clearly not every feminine dude is gonna find this offensive. At this point you're just white knighting and moralising over a non issue.

 

[Bast]

This is just not true.

There are actually more terms in the game that can be interpreted as derogatory. "Bitch" and "Shemale" for example.

But honestly, it would help society a lot if you could find them all and then be offended some more. Thank you for your sacrifice.

 

[Kesil]

It's less about being politically correct and more about catering to certain "mainstream" kinks, which may or may not entail simplification for the sake of quick titillation. Raunchy language is one of them. Being a slut could simply mean showing the world you're accepting of your sexual side. Or being a bitch could refer to having been turned into a lupine and loving every second of it.
I wish I could come up with better terms and spread them across the interwebs, but alas...

P.S. What's with that "straight" stuff? Does it imply that gay/lesbian (for "reverse traps") people have a "trapdar" so that they will somehow see past looks and mannerisms? Because it may not happen if you play a female Champion... in a world in which anyone could sport any kind of genitalia. So no, this is not the place to play the "Ewww penis, gross and homosexual! Not for my waifu!!" Trap Card.

 

[Animalistic]

Still, I feel that trappy, in context or Ryn scene, does feel out of place. Like, what does trappy there refer to? That Ryn ass looks/is as tight as that of a feminine boy? That we are insulting her femininity/her gender identification? I think it is the former but do not quote me on that. SinceI never really seen trappy being used when referring to a dickgirl character.

 

[pinkcaitgang]

I mean, you guys could be right. It's not something that bothers me personally, but it is a perspective I've heard multiple places across the internet. It's also one of my beliefs that the specificity of language is important, which is something I'm sure that erotic writers are very aware of, given their job is to craft sentences while picking whichever word has the most impact.
I also haven't been a part of the anime community for a while, but back when I was, the term trap was not a positive thing in my circles.

And @Kasil, to be honest I don't fully understand your reply. My statement was just working off of the general idea of straight dudes being uncomfortable with being attracted to feminine men, which I believe was the origin of the term.

I just think it's something for the writers to consider, whatever they decide is fine.

 

[Tide Hunter]

Whether the origin of the word was positive or negative, and whatever its meaning was, words are not stagnant, nor do they have only one meaning. In the Oxford dictionary's second edition, the verb "set" had 430 different senses. In some circles, in some situations, trap is an insult. Here, it is never intended as one, even if the use is a bit iffy.

 

[Kesil]

My statement was just working off of the general idea of straight dudes being uncomfortable with being attracted to feminine men, which I believe was the origin of the term.

So general, it felt to me as if you were entertaining the idea of female players/Champions or gay/lesbian traps not existing at all. Or disregarding that transformative items and magic do exist

 

[Oh Philomena]

I do just want to chime in here and say I have heard significant and sincere criticism of the term "trap" in other parts of the internet, so I think the claim that nobody is bothered by it is just categorically not true. But I see its presence in CoC and TiTS mostly as a function of the culture these games come from — online fetish culture, heavily influenced by hentai and furry stuff, where those terms are considered pretty normal. See the consistent use of "futa," "shemale," other stuff like that. They're probably stuff you wouldn't call another person, and they would definitely be pretty unpleasant for me personally to read in a non-porn book or whatever, but they're terms you might input on a porn site to find the type of thing you like.

Because this is a fetish game arising from a particular internet culture and set of influences, I think the use of fetish terms is kind of just about serving the audience and clearly communicating what fetish role a character fills. "Trap" communicates that the character is extremely feminine-looking but "male" in some important sexual sense; "futa" communicates that the character has a dick but is still 100% "woman" in a social/identity sense. The game's about appealing to a particular set of sexual fantasies, most of which focus on characters having and using anatomy that's unusual in some sense.

Which is all to say that I kind of view it as the price of entry and the price of having such well-done and hyper-specific fetish content available. There's weird stuff in the game that is not my cup of tea, there are favored phrases and character archetypes that do nothing for me or put me off, but there's also weird stuff I really really love and favored phrases that might gross somebody else out but do a lot for me. And it all comes from the same root! Weird perverts on the internet!

I try to just vibe with it and ignore the things I don't love, and accept it all as "this is what the game is, and if it weren't the type of game to have this stuff it also wouldn't be the type of game that has stuff you really like."

If that makes sense!

 

[TheIrishOtaku]

I do just want to chime in here and say I have heard significant and sincere criticism of the term "trap" in other parts of the internet, so I think the claim that nobody is bothered by it is just categorically not true.

Yeah a lot of people do criticize it but 9/10 times they don't understand what the term even means or wanna read underhanded intentions behind it. Its honestly stupid. But the topic has been beaten into the ground, so I'll say my peace with that and end it there.

 

[Oh Philomena]

Totally! It's just one of those things where different language is normal in different settings imo! And one of the things about the modern internet is that so many conversations take place in the same handful of settings, visible to huge numbers of people approaching from different angles and bringing different assumptions, that it's hard to just arrive at a place of compromise, nuance or understanding.

It's all good with me! I think this was an interesting talk! <3

 

[ForeverLurker]

Moving on...

I feel like the words "trap" or "trappy" are a bad choice on the basis of feeding into negative stereotypes about trans people and women especially, i.e. only pretending to be a woman, sexual predators by deception, preying on hetero men specifically etc. I mean that's what the word "trap" refers to, no?

I feel like if you really need multiple descriptive words for someone's nutsack, at least leave them out and replace them with, I dunno, "femmy", "femboy", "subby" at a stretch? I mean it's not perfect by any means but I feel it would at least be more tolerant.

I always wanted to ask someone who thinks "trap" is a slur. So are you a field trap or a house trap? Sorry for going there but I had to say my peace about the trap debate

 

[Jorr The Great]

I always wanted to ask someone who thinks "trap" is a slur. So are you a field trap or a house trap? Sorry for going there but I had to say my peace about the trap debate

I still don't understand how any word can offend someone.

 

[Oh Philomena]

Can we please drop this topic? I think it's a really sensitive and nuanced one, and a confrontational tone is unlikely to lead to a productive conversation.

Anyway!!! Gripes with CoC2!

I wish the "Be His Bitch" content with Garrett weren't locked behind a high lupine score, although I understand that both participants having doggie qualities is probably a core part of the fantasy. I just wish I could access that really well-written hardcore dom content without having to have a muzzle!

 

[luciel1331]

I always wanted to ask someone who thinks "trap" is a slur. So are you a field trap or a house trap? Sorry for going there but I had to say my peace about the trap debate

I think we should stop beating the dead horse guys. Don't wanna start whole other can of worms.

 

[wery12345]

Both of garths kids have lupine locked content, it happens. Pretty sure a lot of kitsune content would have been locked behind being a kitsune(like the adorable Rindo concubine stuff) but unlike the 2 of those it's still getting content and is very fucking popular.

 

[Tide Hunter]

I wish the "Be His Bitch" content with Garrett weren't locked behind a high lupine score, although I understand that both participants having doggie qualities is probably a core part of the fantasy. I just wish I could access that really well-written hardcore dom content without having to have a muzzle!

I also wish there was a way to undo the opening of that content without needing to make yourself either not female or not lupine. I don't use the character anymore because her save was on Chrome, but I experienced the content on what was my main character at the time, and I really enjoyed it. Until one specific scene, in which he responds to the Champ asking for more sex by hitting the champ hard enough to send her to the floor with the justification of "you're pregnant and fucking more would hurt the baby." It wasn't the hitting part that bothered me, it was the pregnancy part.

 

[wery12345]

Turns out the guy whose about thinking he's the strongest, really is sorta an asshole.

 

[Animalistic]

Yeah, but hitting a pregnant women goes, you know, above being an asshole and into psychopathic territory. Especially if your justification is "I do not want to hurt you or your child."

 

[Oh Philomena]

For what it's worth, I believe that content may have been scaled back since you experienced it? I just did a quick run-through of his scenes and didn't see what you described — he'll flatout refuse some of the more extreme sex options when you're pregnant, although he will slap you (the slap is described as "not as hard as you would have liked") in one of the scenes where you suggest it.

I do agree that Garret's bitch content might benefit from a more thorough warning or an "out" once you've opted in, since the warning in place right now gives you a heads-up that you're signing up to experience some extreme content but doesn't specifically say what extreme content it is. I think the writers have always been pretty good at making it clear when you're in for something permanent/extreme but have gotten a lot better at being specific about what kind of content it is as the game's gone on — the warning before you take or don't take Rindo as your concubine is a great one.

 

[Spidereggs]

I still don't understand how any word can offend someone.

You don't have to understand it, you just have to respect it. Offending without meaning to is still offending, and I find it's pretty integral to being a decent person to try to avoid causing undue hurt to others.

 

[TheIrishOtaku]

You don't have to understand it, you just have to respect it. Offending without meaning to is still offending, and I find it's pretty integral to being a decent person to try to avoid causing undue hurt to others.

Offense is subjective, I find the fact that other people misunderstand and misuse the word trap offensive, but is there any consideration for my feelings? Also its a porn game, people really need to have thicker skin. Now, for the last time lets drop this.

 

[wery12345]

I think the warnings are mostly located in tobs content, because I don't think most others have gotten there own content to the point of needing them, if I had to guess once corrupted companions happen your going to be very intament with the warnings.

 

[Jorr The Great]

You don't have to understand it, you just have to respect it. Offending without meaning to is still offending, and I find it's pretty integral to being a decent person to try to avoid causing undue hurt to others.

¿So the person who wrote the word "trap" should apologize or not?
¿He shouldn't do it anymore?
¿Maybe you can help me understand, how do I take responsibility if someone is offended for no reason like it was in this case?
¿ Or what do you mean respect?¿not answer him?

 

[Aurore]

¿So the person who wrote the word "trap" should apologize or not?
¿He shouldn't do it anymore?
¿Maybe you can help me understand, how do I take responsibility if someone is offended for no reason like it was in this case?
¿ Or what do you mean respect?¿not answer him?

pls... put that aside.