Your gripes with CoC II

[Mizukage]

I think one thing that's been left out of all this is that your daughter isn't alone in all of this; she has the support of the entire colony behind her. Every individual to which you can talk about with regards to the situation has updated context after every step in the chain, and if you get Kohaku killed it's pointed out not so subtly that she sees it as her duty to die so your daughter doesn't have to. Now you too can be a human bullet, etc, etc, etc.

The important thing is that those are her friendships and connections, not yours. And yes, there is a disconnect from the PC in that I've deliberately kept him or her de-emphasised in this storyline.

It is bittersweet that she has reliable friends she is relying on while saying 'go away dad, I have to do this without you' and rejecting our help in particular. I get what you are going for it just kind of feels like a gut punch to have her actively treat us wanting to help as a nuisance instead of there being some other reason we can't step in (like how we just weren't there at the time during Quest 1). I guess I just feel kind of inadequate here, like in the princess maker series you get to go in depth in raising and training your daughter so you know you made them a badass who can look after herself and here I gave them a few life lessons as the events that give her hime/shoujo points come up but didn't really do anything like say 'and today I will teach you how to crush your enemies and see them driven before you' so that I can feel like I left her in a position to be able to handle herself before she became independent. And to be clear, I'm not saying Kiyoko did a bad job or anything. Just that sometimes it is really easy to headcannon up a champion who considers themselves a bad parent who didn't do enough and, because of that, has a lot of trouble accepting that it is time for Kinu to go solo already and its too late to really give them anything more like training or the head of her enemies on a silver platter without Kinu having to lift a finger.

Edit: Hmm, would it be possible to add more dream world stuff with training Kinu, maybe? Like that one scene where you give her a magic lesson.

edited edit: I was looking at this word document thing in another thread and apparently I just didn't get events where you can do things like that because of RNG luck on the dream scenes prior to getting around to freeing her. Guess its my characters fault for rushing to free them after I thought 'surely I must be getting close to running out of scenes by now anyway, right?'. I guess next time I'll have to keep them trapped in a magical bauble for longer while metagaming so at least my character isn't an asshole keeping them in longer then needed <_<

 

[WolframL]

In light of all this serious character talk, I'll bring up some not so serious complaints.

Like why can't we pick up our fucking camps? I hate always having to buy them just to hang out with our Snake lady friend.

Not so serious response: Because the Champ is a lazy slob and can't be bothered because that seems like hard work and stuff and that takes time away from fucking.

Serious answer: Just a gameplay mechanic, like how in ye olde RPGs you had full-heal items like Tents but could only use them once and only out of combat.

Also, does dumping all the wood and metal I collect at the den even do anything?

Ehhh, I dunno. But it will eventually have a use with the Wayfort refurbishment.

I wish there was a in game way to change background. It could reset the attributes in consideration of the stat boost your background gives.

You'll need to go on a long and perilous quest and learn the most arcane secrets of Time Magic for that to happen. And maybe some kind of massive causality manipulation if you wanted to do something like shift between Noble Scion and Slumrat or vice versa.

Why is the thief class called "thief"? All their abilities seem more combative. Some of them are straight up murderous like [Mark for Death] or [Assassinate]. It should be called "Assassin" instead.

The flavor text for the class says that you were a thief and had to skip town. Presumably all the stabby skills are applications of your knack for sneakiness rather than things you necessarily did in the past. The Champ canonically spends a year or so roaming around before ending up in Hawkethorne so they would have had some time to work out how to turn their existing talents towards self-defense. Would be cool to have some actual steal-y stuff in the future but that might be hard to code.

Alternate silly explanation: Before skipping town, the Champion was Zorro.

 

[Paradox01]

Why is the thief class called "thief"? All their abilities seem more combative. Some of them are straight up murderous like [Mark for Death] or [Assassinate]. It should be called "Assassin" instead.

Because "Assassin" is too dark for a character that starts out at the "Champion" end of the Corruption scale.

The main character starting out as a dark, murderous sell-sword and eventually finding redemption is a completely different game.

 

[Mizukage]

Oh, and this isn't really a gripe but just curious, why the design decision to have us need to stop off at the kitsune tree before teleporting to Kiyoko's homestead instead of just making the homestead directly on the way shrine warp system?

 

[Paradox01]

Oh, and this isn't really a gripe but just curious, why the design decision to have us need to stop off at the kitsune tree before teleporting to Kiyoko's homestead instead of just making the homestead directly on the way shrine warp system?

I'll hazard a guess and say that it's not a shrine destination because it's an optional area. People may feel cheated if they see a greyed-out shrine they can't use because they haven't yet or didn't want to finish all the Kiyoko content.



Also, there are LOADS of other spots on the map it'd be handy to teleport to directly. That doesn't make the ability to teleport everywhere balanced or good for the game.

 

[Mizukage]

Makes sense, and it amuses me to wonder if they have a betting pool going at the tree as to whether my next visit is an actual visit or if I will just pop out of the void for 5 seconds to switch teleport networks and go somewhere else.

 

[WolframL]

I have a feeling if the floofs are doing anything, it's snickering that the Champ is too lazy to walk the tremendously long distance between Hawkethorne and the house. Okay, looking at travel times it does appear to be a three hour hike or so but something something back in the Old Country they walked uphill both ways in a blizzard.

As an aside, I don't think I've ever visited the den without at least stopping to see what Kohaku has in stock that day so if there was a betting pool, someone would clean up handily until they noticed the pattern. Probably Kohaku.

 

[Paradox01]

Makes sense, and it amuses me to wonder if they have a betting pool going at the tree as to whether my next visit is an actual visit or if I will just pop out of the void for 5 seconds to switch teleport networks and go somewhere else.

I just had an image of the last Blockbuster Video store located next to a bus stop.

Employee: "Someone's getting off the bus!"
Manager: "Really?!"
Employee: "Aaaand they're getting right back on the next one."
Manager: "Awwwwww!"

 

[Karamaru]

Makes sense, and it amuses me to wonder if they have a betting pool going at the tree as to whether my next visit is an actual visit or if I will just pop out of the void for 5 seconds to switch teleport networks and go somewhere else.

I can imagine Kohaku setting up a gambling booth outside the shrine and playing "Guess when the native appears"

 

[Paradox01]

I can imagine Kohaku setting up a gambling booth outside the shrine and playing "Guess when the native appears"

Depending on the Champ's interactions, I can see him setting up a Whack-A-Mole type game at the shrine.

"Step right up, take your shot at Whack-A-Champ!"

 

[Mizukage]

Follow up: I was looking at this word document thing in another thread that seems to have all the dream events and apparently I just didn't get events where you can do things like train her to crush her enemies and see them driven before her because of RNG luck on the dream scenes prior to getting around to freeing her. Guess its my characters fault for rushing to free them after I thought 'surely I must be getting close to running out of scenes by now anyway, right? (I was very very wrong there, there were apparently so many more left lol) Might as well hurry it up now that IC I found a clue to go to the giant tree to free them'. I guess next time I'll have to keep them trapped in a magical bauble for longer while metagaming to avoid that knowledge so at least my character isn't an asshole keeping them in longer then needed <_<

 

[zagzig]

Follow up: I was looking at this word document thing in another thread that seems to have all the dream events and apparently I just didn't get events where you can do things like train her to crush her enemies and see them driven before her because of RNG luck on the dream scenes prior to getting around to freeing her. Guess its my characters fault for rushing to free them after I thought 'surely I must be getting close to running out of scenes by now anyway, right? (I was very very wrong there, there were apparently so many more left lol) Might as well hurry it up now that IC I found a clue to go to the giant tree to free them'. I guess next time I'll have to keep them trapped in a magical bauble for longer while metagaming to avoid that knowledge so at least my character isn't an asshole keeping them in longer then needed <_<

In one save I held off visiting the magic tree for 100+ days so I could get Kiyoko up to nine tails, which was totally worth it for Keros's "dude, respect" when Kiyoko and her 32 kits are spawned out of the Astral Plane. I wonder how long you'd have to keep waiting to get every scene?

And in a 'gripe' - though not really a gripe because I'm well aware of where the fandom generally sits on this issue - everyone's penises are too damn big. Quin's packing 11.5 inches, Arona's got a footlong, Brint's over there with a fucking mac truck between his legs. Even Etheryn's tragically shrunk junk is still around the human average at 4 inches. I don't know what magic people in Savarra are using that Brint can sleep with humans, elves, and catfolk without literally breaking them but it must be the good stuff.

Don't mind me, I'm just stuffing my character's faces with blue eggs so they don't feel inadequate.

 

[Undecided]

I wonder how long you'd have to keep waiting to get every scene?

So, according to this helpful post by Emerald, it seems you can force the dream sequence events with Kinu to trigger. There are 13 events ("The Prodigy" event being two parts), meaning 14 events in total. I'm unsure if all of the events (some account for Kinu's siblings) trigger even without Kinu having siblings. I'm going to work with the assumption that they do.

As far as I can tell, it takes 3 visits with Kiyoko to result in Kinu being born (1 for initial visit, 1 for sexing her and then the last 1 for the birth), so, taking that into account - wanting to get all the event scenes with Kinu as quickly as possible would theoretically take 17 days (by my estimates).
As mentioned though, this is done with the assumption that the some of the events still trigger without Kinu having siblings - and additionally doesn't account for any holiday scenes taking preference.

Spoiler: EDIT

Spoiler tag used to not affect the page spacing for other peoples posts. Seeing as I'm editing this quite a few hours after I initially posted - I don't want to mess up anyone else's posts.

The siblings assumption proved wrong upon testing. Testing reflected that 8/13 or rather 9/14 events can be gotten without Kinu having siblings.

Additionally, it actually takes Kiyoko 6 visits (from initial visit to birth) to give birth to Kinu (assuming you're speeding her gestation period up by sexing her).

This then means that in actuality it would take 17 visits at a minimum for Kinu to have had all the non-sibling related events (including the weapon selection one) - which as mentioned before would be 8/13 or 9/14 events (depending on your viewpoint).

Uncertain of how many visits it would take to get every event, but from what little testing I did on that front, it seems you need at least 4 / 5 kits to trigger the majority of the sibling events - "Beauty Advice" being the only exception. Unsure of the exact requirements for that one, but potentially Kiyoko having 9 tails - in reference to what Emerald said in their post


Apologies for editing this so long after I posted it initially (as well as it being quite a lengthy edit) - but I was just hoping to correct errors I had in my post.

 

[Kesil]

I everyone's penises are too damn big. Quin's packing 11.5 inches, Arona's got a footlong, Brint's over there with a fucking mac truck between his legs. Even Etheryn's tragically shrunk junk is still around the human average at 4 inches.

That's one of the reasons I have yet to create a thread on measures like I did for TiTS' - I feel almost everyone has absurd measures!

 

[Savin]

Would be cool to have some actual steal-y stuff in the future but that might be hard to code.

We've talked about a Steal skill before but it's a relatively High Effort endeavor.

 

[Ria Brew]

We've talked about a Steal skill before but it's a relatively High Effort endeavor.

Out of simple curiosity, by high effort do you mean "we'll do it eventually but not now" or "It's a bit too complicated so we decided against it?"

Or "haven't quite decided yet?"

 

[Upcast Drake]

Out of simple curiosity, by high effort do you mean "we'll do it eventually but not now" or "It's a bit too complicated so we decided against it?"

Or "haven't quite decided yet?"

High Effort just means it'd take a lot of work to come up with/maintain theft tables for all the enemies forever. Because of that, we haven't done it.

 

[Ria Brew]

That's totally fair.

 

[WolframL]

Even Etheryn's tragically shrunk junk is still around the human average at 4 inches. I don't know what magic people in Savarra are using that Brint can sleep with humans, elves, and catfolk without literally breaking them but it must be the good stuff.

The official line is that it's the magic of fun overriding realism. Though a couple characters like Fritte and Kasyrra do explicitly know how to cast 'Make It Fit', possibly as some kind of prestige class feat...

Also, I think Ryn's size is actually going to be an asset for her: Just imagine how eager she's going to be once the cage comes off and she wants to finally use her royal sceptre. If she were packing a polearm under her skirt she'd probably faint from all that blood migrating south for the first time in forever.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

Doesn't Ryn have dialogue where she says she shrunk it to try and get out of the cage? Who knows how big she previously was.

 

[WolframL]

Doesn't Ryn have dialogue where she says she shrunk it to try and get out of the cage? Who knows how big she previously was.

She does in her 'Alchemy?' option, but she says that it wasn't very big even before she tried shrinking her penis so it was probably something like six inches to start.

 

[leomax]

My personal gripe is that it's never quite clear how to do things that patches add. Case in point, turning Cait into a leothran. Previously: siorcanna shaman is a random encounter, kinda figured she'd be an integral npc that helps you in the rift. Sure, it's fun to discover by myself, but a descriptive patch note on the forums might help sometimes. Had to go to the wiki to discover the blue giant / twin quest in the frost marches is what unlocks the new dialogue with River back when that was added, and that was only a few weeks after the actual release, when people discovered that. Still love the game but wish it wasn't as hard to figure out who does what how when.

I'm still trying to figure that out. The cait thing

 

[Savin]

I'm still trying to figure that out. The cait thing

It's been explained like 20 times in various threads and blog comments.

 

[LonelyHydra]

Someone here described the game's story as the PC's journey of self-discovery when faced with temptation, adversity, and responsibility.

Quick search only brings up me, so if no one else is taking credit...
But seriously, you could say that about any Great RPG that really earns the RP aspect. CoC1 was along the same themes; For all its faults, I liked how it felt so organic in motivating you to corrupting yourself through the mechanics and narrative.

I'm hoping it's building up to a final dungeon where the player and guest star party member Kinu finally put Raphael in his place. But as it stands, it seems Kinu is the protagonist of a completely separate game and like she wants to tell us off. Her reactions make sense from a writing perspective, but from the player's it feels frustrating. So far we can't even train her and help her, or the other floof children, learn to fight against non kitsune opponents.

That was also one of the two ways I thought of resolving this tension in a satisfying way. The other would be a fight, but that's another can of worms to sort out. A sparring match where the ideal solution is to lose would be cool, though; a "nothing more to teach" moment.

For every personality choice the player gets to make, that's exponentially more time the author has to spend writing it. And for better or for worse, we're at the point now where we know The Observer has a story they'd like to write and they're going to write it that way. You as a parent are a supporting character in Kinu's narrative, so you will be written to put you where you need to be for Kinu to shine. And if you don't like it, well, it's probably not changing.

Let's not overestimate the amount of work he'd have to do here. For all I've read about his dislike of "false choices", I still think it's worth it for the game to ask what amounts to a binary "do you get it?" and railroad your character to the scene accordingly; enthusiastic consent and all that. But I also like the Perfectly Fine way that studios like Telltale went about it, so take me for what that's worth.

 

[Mizukage]

That was also one of the two ways I thought of resolving this tension in a satisfying way. The other would be a fight, but that's another can of worms to sort out. A sparring match where the ideal solution is to lose would be cool, though; a "nothing more to teach" moment.

Could always have two targets come up at once and require a party split moment where the PC entrusts Kinu and her party to go after Raphael and bring his head back on a pike while the PC and their party goes after whoever (some of his backers, maybe?) instead of insisting that either the PC or Kiyoko go along with Kinu. Though maybe thats something that might be done after the tension is resolved otherwise and as proof that 'yep, I'm definitely for real cool with you taking this as a rite of passage thing like we went over earlier and not fighting you on it'.

I was kind of surprised the black mage ultimate only explodes some of the things and otherwise just removes things from combat for 2 rounds. Not sure its a gripe exactly, just kind of surprised to see a black mage type class not get a nuke for their ultimate.

 

[WolframL]

I was kind of surprised the black mage ultimate only explodes some of the things and otherwise just removes things from combat for 2 rounds. Not sure its a gripe exactly, just kind of surprised to see a black mage type class not get a nuke for their ultimate.

You ask, Tobs answers.

 

[qorl]

Here's one of my only gripes so far: the ovipositor eggings are anal-only. Mostly I have issue with two Azzyran scenes(because they start good but I have issues by the end), including the 3some with her queen, and there's a line that Azzyran "can't implant eggs into your womb", and I'm like "...Why?". Why, is that a hornet people taboo? She can squirt a gallon of lube in there so the champion's belly bloats, but not eggs? And in the "Suck and Ride" scene the ovipositor is already in the champion's pussy but she's like "No no, I have to switch it to my asshole for the eggs", I don't understand the insistence on that. I'm just saying a variation would be nice.
Isn't there more room in a womb? And it can stretch too. I get it if the hornets catch someone with no pussy, and they have no choice, but why always only buttholes? A womb seems like a more secure place for your eggs and more difficult to get rid of the eggs. And what, do the victims' guts get completely blocked up for almost 2 weeks? Sounds both painful and dangerous to their health, don't tell me anyone would agree to it willingly.
Actually, the whole hornet/bee overcomplicated lifecycle in both games is just s...silly. It's bonkers. What an awful way to come into the world by the way, born from a stranger's sphincter. Just dump the eggs in a corner of the palace if the queen doesn't want to carry them, in fact I just started wondering why can't their eggs "come to term" in the workers' insect abdomens. They're carrying them around anyway....

 

[TheShepard256]

Just dump the eggs in a corner of the palace if the queen doesn't want to carry them

It's likely the eggs require some form of incubation until shortly before they hatch; inside a body is a much more stable environment than out in the open, and babies need a stable environment during their early stages of development (and inside the egg by itself might not be stable enough). Simply dumping the eggs like you suggested would likely result in them dying. As for the rest, I have no answer/explanation other than "maybe it's just some cultural BS". The only points of comparison I have are the nyrea and bothrioc from TiTS, but a) they don't have the same problems and b) using TiTS as a basis for what to expect from CoC2 is fallacious.

 

[Alypia]

Here's one of my only gripes so far: the ovipositor eggings are anal-only. Mostly I have issue with two Azzyran scenes(because they start good but I have issues by the end), including the 3some with her queen, and there's a line that Azzyran "can't implant eggs into your womb", and I'm like "...Why?". Why, is that a hornet people taboo? She can squirt a gallon of lube in there so the champion's belly bloats, but not eggs? And in the "Suck and Ride" scene the ovipositor is already in the champion's pussy but she's like "No no, I have to switch it to my asshole for the eggs", I don't understand the insistence on that. I'm just saying a variation would be nice.
Isn't there more room in a womb? And it can stretch too. I get it if the hornets catch someone with no pussy, and they have no choice, but why always only buttholes? A womb seems like a more secure place for your eggs and more difficult to get rid of the eggs. And what, do the victims' guts get completely blocked up for almost 2 weeks? Sounds both painful and dangerous to their health, don't tell me anyone would agree to it willingly.
Actually, the whole hornet/bee overcomplicated lifecycle in both games is just s...silly. It's bonkers. What an awful way to come into the world by the way, born from a stranger's sphincter. Just dump the eggs in a corner of the palace if the queen doesn't want to carry them, in fact I just started wondering why can't their eggs "come to term" in the workers' insect abdomens. They're carrying them around anyway....

It's because butt eggies are what the people who write those scenes are most interested in. Plus, they're parts-agnostic.

 

[Tide Hunter]

Brint's weapons seem to largely be made out of iron, steel, or some other grey metal, excluding the axe's sharp part and some of the smaller details. This feels odd, considering that most of the world, excluding the Kitsune country, uses bronze weaponry.

Spoiler: Image