Your gripes with CoC II

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Akhter13

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Having multiple characters of various levels of progression I use "Sense" to label safe combats* as I must have won previously with the PC not doing anything useful.
*If "Sense" is greyed out my crew should have no problems.
In a slight digression I have sensed the Painted Demons over a dozen times without success, does RNG just not like me or is there something i should know?

Regarding "Conversation Battles" they are a linguistic logic puzzles, a little like a cross word. The ease is dictated by the degree of alignment, of world view, between the problem setter and the problem solver. Are you using compatible theories of the mind?
Herod_Hammerstar I would suggest by the nature of "his" posts and his defaulting to brute forcing conversation is not someone given to sullying his perfection with the taint of empathy.

My record on conversation battles is as follows
  • Hethia - done it both ways, there is different content depending which path you follow, so that's why you have multiple characters
  • Taldahs - Did fight him the first time, but that was with My Orc Warrior [Bollbag] whose Role play rules are: fuck everything, don't take advice and I can only play him when Tipsy [this occasion 4 glasses of Port, how I wish I had a smoking jacket]. For Bollbag it not ending in a fight would have been the fail. All my other characters have talked him down.
  • Convocation Of Mirrors - none of my characters even discovered the conversation battle as they all considered it unnecessarily cruel to tell the Twins they were dead. So went back tried it a few times no luck. Then I tried it with the walkthrough, attempting to work out why certain responses where the right ones frankly fried my noggin.
 

Herod_Hammerstar

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The Taldahs conversation fight is like baby's first debate. It's super easy, even if you don't get extra info about him from Ahmri just by paying attention to what he's saying and how he reacts.

I did pay attention, and I picked what seemed to be the obviously correct response in every situation. It kept him talking for a while, but eventually ended in a fight. I had every reason to assume that i had correctly reached the intended outcome, as I described before. It makes perfect sense that if a guy is corrupted, you probably can't win ONLY with reason and empathy; instead, those things reduce his demonic influence enough that beating him becomes possible. Not until after he'd wiped out my party did I find out that my supposition was wrong. From a narrative perspective it made perfect sense.

Anyway, if the clues on how to win this encounter are hidden in the massive walls of text that the game throws up, then I'm not sure whether I care to bother finding them. I'm not always averse to reading, but the immense throbbing purpleness of the prose in this game's sex scenes has kinda trained me to tune out.

Gytha isn't hard to beat either unless you get unlucky. Resolve her down and stun and beat down her dog.

I tried that (minus the Stun part since I've never seen a power that does that). It didn't work, my Teases take like three full rounds to put most enemies down since I'm not a Charmer and not usually running Quint. My champ has Cleave, and when Brint does Cleave it kills basically every enemy in one hit. That and Cait's healing are the only things in the game that don't seem underpowered, compared to how strong the opposition is (apart from obviously easy foes like the wolves and harpies).

That's not the same kind of thing at all, one is an unintended glitch and the other is taking advantage of the fact that you're playing a game and can do things like reload a save and try again if you fail the first time.

When you're playing chess, you could "take advantage of the fact that you're playing a game" to scoop all of your opponent's pawns, knights and rooks off the board and then checkmate him on turn 1, but that would be violating the spirit of the game. Abusing save states to gain information outside of the game's accessible channels is similarly a violation of the spirit of a video game. Ideally, a game that uses things like elemental resistances, and assumes that you have to scan the enemy to learn what they are before you can win, would have them computed randomly whenever a game is reloaded, so that scanning and then resetting would give you information that would not apply to the next game. I'm not expecting every game to reach that ideal, but in the spirit of narrative immersion and fair play, I avoid these sorts of exploits when playing a game, since they're only one step back from plugging in a GameGenie and turning on God Mode. (Which I do consider a valid way of experiencing a game's story and characters and such, if the gameplay is too damn hard and is getting in the way, but in this case COC2's enjoyment largely comes from the gameplay itself, which I do consider pretty well-designed apart from some of what I perceive to be balance issues.)

The Retry option is literally a free save point that takes you back to just before you initiate any fight that results in a game over.

It still resets you to being stuck inside a scenario that you can't back out of, in order to go back to town and buy more items if you need to, or the like. Thusly, it is not particularly useful. I get that the game warns you to be ready before you go in, but there's a limit to how ready you can be without playing and losing the scenario in order to find out how screwed you are. And, the aforementioned point about fair play notwithstanding, I *hate* when a game forces me to redo previous progress. If I beat the Unitaur once, she should stay beat for that character, even if I have to reset to before I entered the village. (That last part is pure personal opinion, not a criticism of the game design; from an objective standard having everything reset is probably correct, I'm just saying it bugs me, because I've always hated "grind" and the "sorry, try again" approach to gaming.)

Given how much you're bitching about the lack of in-dungeon saving, I'd think you'd appreciate that the game doesn't require you to redo the entire thing over again each time.

Except that, by potentially trapping you in a no-win scenario, it does exactly that.

Honestly, maybe you just suck at the game.

Entirely possible, but if true, I'd call that a failure in the game design. Short of being unable to play Pong because of arthritis, every game experience should be accessible to every potential player, or the game maker has been inadequately accomodating toward their audience. It is true that the game has an Easy difficulty setting, and in retrospect I should probably have been on that all along, but it's far too late to fix that now. The game's up-front labeling did not give me any reason to expect it to be Dark Souls-level difficulty (I'm going by reputation here, not having actually played Dark Souls; I can't think of a game that I have played which was so outrageously difficult as that one is rumored to be, not until I got here at least.)

The designers of 3E Dungeons and Dragons did the right thing when they introduced the concept of Challenge Rating; they didn't manage to get it right, and still haven't two editions later, but the general idea that the game should have a difficulty calibrator was a good one. If you're designing a game, you should put the tools to allow the player to manage their experience into the game, and then keep adjusting them as necessary until the game accommodates everyone who ever might want to play it. Otherwise, your game is excluding potential customers and it doesn't belong on the market, since by its very existence, it obscures access to other games that do a better job of welcoming all players.

The Chieftain will give you a question while you are talking with him, it has 3 answers, 1 of them is correct. Take into account what he says, take into account the reason you are even in the Centaur village in the 1st place. Why is he fighting? why did he take Kasyrra's power. you get the answer and you win without needing to fight him.

Nope, I followed those conversation prompts in the order that seemed obviously right, and it still ended in a fight.

I love it that this is said as if it's some kind of cheaty, overwhelming advantage when it's needed to even out the action and recharge economy between the opposing sides.

When your opponent has 400 HP and you have 200, and he hits for more than twice as much damage to your entire party as your entire party deals to him, getting more actions than him is hardly something that "needs to be evened out".

Story mode is always a thing if people don't want to bother with the game part of the game.

Hm?

For reference, Taldahs is meant to be a middling level 4 encounter if you fight him.

Sure didn't seem that way to me; I was level 4 and he utterly destroyed me before I could take a third action.

You are not aware of Conversation Battles. Have you ever done the Dog Days quest? Did you try to do it without fighting Hethia, and without getting Sanders to complete the quest for you? That, of course, is done by listening to Garret say that she's down by the banks between 16:00 and 20:00, heading there, and selecting the Parlay option. If you did, then you can engage in a basic convo battle. It's extremely simple and easy, considering that it's literally impossible to fail unless you repeatedly select wrong answers that you already selected another time, but it serves its purpose as a convo battle. You talk, you need to select the right answers, if you don't, you take resolve damage and need to go through that bit of dialogue again.

I have done this experience, yes. I beat her in combat first, but have done it with and without Sanders' help as well. I see a similarity in concept between the two, but in execution they seem different. But admittedly, I've only dealt with Tahldas once, because of the impossibility of saving immediately before that encounter.

Dark Souls isn't a perfect game, but it's also one of the most well-known and well-liked examples of this design that I can think of. Not to go too in-depth, but basically, the boss fights are about learning how to counter the boss, both in learning its moveset and how to dodge and in gaining knowledge of its weaknesses (both in terms of damage types, weak spots, and the openings during its moves). Of course, it's a live-action 3d game with a different design philosophy from CoC2, but my point is simply that to call it bad game design as a blanket statement is incorrect.

As mentioned, I'm not too familiar with that game, but if that's the intention of how it is to be played, then it should give you many opportunities to learn information about a combat before you encounter it. And I mean learning through the actual game, not learning by abusing save states. You should be able to do things like training fights against more manageable opponents who use the same fighting style, so that you can practice how to dodge those moves, without having to die because you failed. Of course, this approach feels very much like it's founded on how combat actually occurs in real life, and my personal preference is very much more for the escapist approach. Off the top of my head, my favorite game in terms of the combat system is probably Final Fantasy V, which is very thoroughly not realistic in terms of how it works, and I don't wish it was more so. Fun gameplay trumps some attempt at immersion and verisimilitude to my way of thinking, although I respect an opinion to the contrary.

I don't believe most players use consumables

Nor should they, given that only the Champion can do so, and it takes his entire action to do it. Pure suicide in any sort of difficult combat, unless you're in a playstyle where the champ doesn't really do anything and is just support for the other two. Probably not a coincidence that my Charmer has had the easiest time going through the game, and my Warrior the hardest.

if the foe is susceptible to tease you can use that rather than wade through the health pool.

The tease damage system is not really well balanced with regular damage IMO; almost all other powers do exclusively health damage, with Quint and Atugia being basically the only exceptions. Since I'm not running both of those plus a Charmer (a combo that would be suicidal against fights that can't be won that way), Tease is usually not going to be worthwhile, and that's particularly true in this scenario, since you have Ahmri along and she only does physical attacks, so her input is completely wasted if you're trying to attack Resolve. IMO the game should maybe rebalance around having nearly all attacks damage both Health and Resolve; there's already precedent for Resolve damage representing things like fear or insanity as well as sexual temptation, so ideally even an attack like Cleave or Thunder Strike might demoralize foes as well as injuring them.
 

Paradox01

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Anyway, if the clues on how to win this encounter are hidden in the massive walls of text that the game throws up, then I'm not sure whether I care to bother finding them. I'm not always averse to reading, but the immense throbbing purpleness of the prose in this game's sex scenes has kinda trained me to tune out.
Yeah, except this is a TEXT GAME. Sure, if I'm at a "generic" sex scene I tend to skim through it and mash the "Next" button but for everything else? It pays to read. You know, IN A TEXT GAME.

I still WATCH a video game even if the graphics aren't the best because, you know, I chose to play a video game.
 

Balaknightfang

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Anyway, if the clues on how to win this encounter are hidden in the massive walls of text that the game throws up, then I'm not sure whether I care to bother finding them. I'm not always averse to reading, but the immense throbbing purpleness of the prose in this game's sex scenes has kinda trained me to tune out.

Entirely possible, but if true, I'd call that a failure in the game design. Short of being unable to play Pong because of arthritis, every game experience should be accessible to every potential player, or the game maker has been inadequately accomodating toward their audience. It is true that the game has an Easy difficulty setting, and in retrospect I should probably have been on that all along, but it's far too late to fix that now. The game's up-front labeling did not give me any reason to expect it to be Dark Souls-level difficulty (I'm going by reputation here, not having actually played Dark Souls; I can't think of a game that I have played which was so outrageously difficult as that one is rumored to be, not until I got here at least.)

PEBKAC.jpg
 

WolframL

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My champ has Cleave, and when Brint does Cleave it kills basically every enemy in one hit. That and Cait's healing are the only things in the game that don't seem underpowered, compared to how strong the opposition is (apart from obviously easy foes like the wolves and harpies).
It's not that everyone else is underpowered, it's that those two are deliberately overpowered for the early game, back when they were the first two companions and were meant to help carry you through the initial learning curve. Brint eventually runs into issues with his particular weaknesses and Cait can be upstaged in healing by Ryn once you get the latter's Queenly Raiment.

When you're playing chess, you could "take advantage of the fact that you're playing a game" to scoop all of your opponent's pawns, knights and rooks off the board and then checkmate him on turn 1, but that would be violating the spirit of the game. Abusing save states to gain information outside of the game's accessible channels is similarly a violation of the spirit of a video game.
Sense data carrying over into a retry is built into the game, it's not violating the spirit of it to use a mechanic that the devs put into it to begin with, while your examples aren't playing within the rules of the games at all.

Look, you clearly aren't very good at the gameplay aspect of CoC2. It's only going to be exacerbated if you refuse to even look at enemy weaknesses and take advantage of them.

Ideally, a game that uses things like elemental resistances, and assumes that you have to scan the enemy to learn what they are before you can win, would have them computed randomly whenever a game is reloaded, so that scanning and then resetting would give you information that would not apply to the next game.
When resistances are a thematic thing, randomizing them would be about the stupidest thing ever since there would be no relationship between the enemy and the resistances. If there's an enemy with shifting resistances that's one thing but for most cases, expecting them to change with each play would be a violation of immersion and good game design.

Short of being unable to play Pong because of arthritis, every game experience should be accessible to every potential player, or the game maker has been inadequately accomodating toward their audience.
Bullshit.

IMO the game should maybe rebalance around having nearly all attacks damage both Health and Resolve; there's already precedent for Resolve damage representing things like fear or insanity as well as sexual temptation, so ideally even an attack like Cleave or Thunder Strike might demoralize foes as well as injuring them.
Oh yeah, sure, the devs are going to completely rebalance a game that functions perfectly well for 99% of the players because one guy sucks at it... How's that boulder-pushing going, Sisyphus?
 

Furiae

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So I think I cracked the code. This guy didn't do anything with the Harboring a Fugitive quest before going to the centaur camp, methinks.

HOW that happened I dunno...
 

Herod_Hammerstar

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Dec 24, 2020
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Bullshit.

Such an eloquent rebuttal to my carefully crafted argument. Let me guess, you hacked into your teacher's database and gave yourself an "A" in debate class.

How's that boulder-pushing going, Sisyphus?

The gods had no right to judge me, but if I'm stuck performing this task for all eternity, then goddammit I'm going to perform the task if it takes me all eternity to do.

So I think I cracked the code. This guy didn't do anything with the Harboring a Fugitive quest before going to the centaur camp, methinks.

HOW that happened I dunno...

It would have been impossible, so no, I did trigger the quest as was mandatory.
 

Furiae

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Did you take the centaur girl with you? I honestly cannot figure out how else this happened.
 

Furiae

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Huh. I thought maybe that was why you bombed the conversation battle so hard.

Oh btw I got Quin and Azzy in about 1 hour 20 minutes, including doing the hive twice because I accidentally declined a quest. Also permabimboed myself as a handicap for fun. Juuuust barely hit level 3. Did zero money grinding for quin's gear. The game is not too hard. :D
 
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Herod_Hammerstar

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An interesting choice of words "Seemed obviously right". if you end up in a fight you either missed something or chose the wrong answer.

Well I managed to win it this time, and I didn't do very much different. I skipped one opportunity to ask for more information about why Tahldas took Kas's deal, which seems like story info that the player should be given and shouldn't sabotage his chances of completing the mission. Other than that, I think the only thing I did differently was that I didn't kill the Behemoth (who I had completely forgotten existed, but that only enhances my complaints - there are THREE boss battles before you face Tahldas, and all but one of them are incredibly difficult, easily giving you the chance to Game Over on a bad roll or a minor strategic mistake, leaving you to have to redo the earlier fights because you lost to a later one, with no opportunity to save or back out).
 

GraphiteCrow

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I skipped one opportunity to ask for more information about why Tahldas took Kas's deal, which seems like story info that the player should be given and shouldn't sabotage his chances of completing the mission.

huh, funny that.

Take into account what he says, take into account the reason you are even in the Centaur village in the 1st place. Why is he fighting? why did he take Kasyrra's power. you get the answer and you win without needing to fight him.
 
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Furiae

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Why would you not ask for the information? That's literally the player getting the information, and IIRC that's the most important part of the discussion.

Can I ask what strategies you usually employ? As I said before, the centaur dungeon is really easy if you focus on resolve damage. maybe 2-3 rounds tops.
 
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Herod_Hammerstar

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Why would you not ask for the information? That's literally the player getting the information, and IIRC that's the most important part of the discussion.

Apparently asking that part was wrong somehow. IMO it shouldn't be, but whatever. I remembered the backstory from the first attempt, when it resulted in a loss, so this time I just went without it, and went straight down the "family" branch of the discussion tree, instead of asking him to talk about himself. (Sigh.)

Can I ask what strategies you usually employ? As I said before, the centaur dungeon is really easy if you focus on resolve damage. maybe 2-3 rounds tops.

Tease damage is generally just lower than normal damage, so even though the creatures have way more Health than Resolve, I generally stick to using my Powers that deal extra normal damage, since just using Tease is the equivalent of just using Attack. The Behemoth is too invincible, I had to Lust Tag him with Quint and then Tease him, since it was obvious I had only a couple of seconds to beat him down before I'd lose, but otherwise I'm happier doing Thunder Strike and Steely Strike and White Fire and Giant Reach and Execute, rather than Lust Tag and Tease and Tease and Tease and Tease. Against multiple foes I use Cleave (which I bought for the Champion, although he does an amount of damage at level 5 which compares roughly to what Brint dealt at level 1), along with other such abilities like Firewalk and Entropic Winds; once all the AOE attacks are used up, I concentrate on one target at a time to eliminate them, thereby gaining more relative actions, and usually I can win that way, although it's often tedious. But the boss enemies all seem really overpowered.
 

Paradox01

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...every game experience should be accessible to every potential player...
Really? So if I hate RTS, every RTS game should also offer a FPS-variant just for my taste?

Abusing save states to gain information outside of the game's accessible channels is similarly a violation of the spirit of a video game.
No, that's called PLAYING VIDEOGAMES. I dare anyone to beat any half-decent videogame the first time through. Anyone that says they brought the correct weapon loadout and teammate group and knew ahead of time all the sweet spots of every enemy in every single fight the first time in Mass Effect or Halo or whatever is a fucking liar.
 
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Tide Hunter

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and usually I can win that way, although it's often tedious. But the boss enemies all seem really overpowered.
It isn't that bosses are OP. I mean, they're stronger than others, because they're bosses, but they aren't overpowered. Rather, you're using a strategy and build built around taking out hordes of weaker enemies in one fell swoop. Bosses are singular enemies, and as such, going for Cleave over single-targets is inefficient.
 

Paradox01

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Bosses being overpowered?

Awe.gif
 
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Furiae

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Tease damage is generally just lower than normal damage, so even though the creatures have way more Health than Resolve, I generally stick to using my Powers that deal extra normal damage, since just using Tease is the equivalent of just using Attack. The Behemoth is too invincible, I had to Lust Tag him with Quint and then Tease him, since it was obvious I had only a couple of seconds to beat him down before I'd lose, but otherwise I'm happier doing Thunder Strike and Steely Strike and White Fire and Giant Reach and Execute, rather than Lust Tag and Tease and Tease and Tease and Tease.


I color coded what I think of this :) it looks like you got it... but you seem to be fighting it?

There's not just lust tag. Have you tried Allure/Cultist's Allure or Song of Splendor? And depending on your gear/presence you can absolutely do higher resolve damage than what you're probably doing now. There's also some weapons that do resolve damage (keep cuddlefucking Azzy).

Against multiple foes I use Cleave (which I bought for the Champion, although he does an amount of damage at level 5 which compares roughly to what Brint dealt at level 1), along with other such abilities like Firewalk and Entropic Winds; once all the AOE attacks are used up, I concentrate on one target at a time to eliminate them, thereby gaining more relative actions, and usually I can win that way, although it's often tedious. But the boss enemies all seem really overpowered.

I didn't hear anything about Threat in there; do you pay attention to it? How's your stats? What kind of gear?

My favorite build is a mage/charmer mix that goes heavy on will and presence. He summons, teases with the multi target skills, and makes things explode. Usually Bolstering Dance or Great Heal is his at-will.

Honestly in most RPGs I also prefer to just hit things too, but that's because I didn't want to deal with MP or reagents. With the way skills work in this game, there's literally no reason to do that.
 

Herod_Hammerstar

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Really? So if I hate RTS, every RTS game should also offer a FPS-variant just for my taste?

Impractical, perhaps, but certainly desirable in an ideal world. I love the setting of Legend of Zelda, but I'll never play any of the newer LoZ games because they keep being on new game platforms, like the "move your whole body" Wii and the more recent multi-screen, multi-component portables; having grown up on the SNES and GBC, I just can't wrap my brain around these newer systems well enough to be able to enjoy these games (neverminding that I also can't afford them). I love Mortal Kombat, but I'm not into gory fatalities, and I can't handle the controls; I very much wish it had an easier, more story-focused version that wasn't about button-mashing and dominating the competition. I love the gameplay of Diablo 2, but it takes goddamn forever to level up and I really wish there were a quicker version, where I could build up my characters faster (there is playing on players=8, but that doesn't work for me due to some mysterious technical reason). As perhaps the biggest example, I love the Magic the Gathering universe, but I've sworn never to waste another dime buying the intentionally disposable cards (and, if I had the power to do so, I'd prohibit them from being manufactured anymore, just because I think it's an ecologically unforgivable degree of consumption). There are all sorts of games which contain a germ of something I like, but because each game has a setting which is a uniquely owned IP, I lament the fact that I can't have that setting without being shackled to rules that I may disapprove of.

No, that's called PLAYING VIDEOGAMES. I dare anyone to beat any half-decent videogame the first time through.

Not sure what your definition of "half-decent" is, but I'm pretty sure almost all of my classic favorites were pretty easy for me to get through. Super Metroid? Sure I died a few times, but I don't think I was ever stuck. Final Fantasies 4, 5, and 6? They flow very naturally and I had only a few problems. Killer Instinct? I only tried it a handful of times, since it's too new and expensive for me to own, and I never had any real sense of control, but I could win around half the time just by frantically button-mashing. The only games I can think of which I've had huge amounts of trouble with were Warcraft III, where the AI is so incredibly overpowered that I need an ally AI to fight the enemy AI for me so that I can just build my colony in peace without being razed every three days, and the various Myst games, which all require enough lateral thinking that there's generally one puzzle per game that I simply can't solve, and have to look up the answer to (in the original Myst it was the floating box in the lighthouse, I never would have guessed that in a million years, because it's the only use of realistic physics in the whole game). Maybe I've just been lucky, and mostly only played games that have a very intuitive and well-calibrated difficulty curve; perhaps that's left me spoiled.

Anyone that says they brought the correct weapon loadout and teammate group and knew ahead of time all the sweet spots of every enemy in every single fight the first time in Mass Effect or Halo or whatever is a fucking liar.

And perhaps it's a paradigm shift in more modern gaming, as opposed to stuff from my era (though that might also be due to the games having been intended somewhat for children, so they just come with a lower difficulty by default; the more modern "AAA game" mentality is far too recent for me to be familiar with it, just because everything's so damn high-priced, and the hardware is intentionally built to obsolete itself for the sake of new sales.

Bosses being overpowered?

Ooh, Angelina before she got all weird! What movie is this?

I color coded what I think of this :)

I like the idea of color coding, but I'm afraid I couldn't quite make out what the intended meaning of these codes was.

There's not just lust tag. Have you tried Allure/Cultist's Allure or Song of Splendor?

Song of Splendor only exists on a Charmer, and while my L5 is one of those, I traded Song of Splendor away because it didn't seem useful enough. Not sure who has Allure, but if it's Quintillus then I mentioned I only recruited him once, because of the 500GP price tag and his relative uselessness in combination with the rest of the party. I don't know this Bimbo Azzy that's been mentioned, maybe if I ever find her, I'll combo her with Quint, but otherwise he's not too useful to me.

And depending on your gear/presence you can absolutely do higher resolve damage than what you're probably doing now. There's also some weapons that do resolve damage (keep cuddlefucking Azzy).

I will, but so far I've only found the Girthy Rod, which was quite useless (and not even possible to use unless you're corrupted, which I try really hard to avoid being).

I didn't hear anything about Threat in there; do you pay attention to it?

I think the only Threat-related power I've ever seen was Bolstering Stance, which attracts Threat to the Champion and thus potentially leads to a Game Over. If there was a way to up Threat on one of the others, I'd pay attention to that for sure, but if that power exists anywhere, it was on Atugia, who I haven't otherwise found a useful enough companion to put her in either of my main parties. (My very low-level Thief is the only one who recruited her, specifically so I could avoid Cait and Brint for the sake of variety.)

How's your stats?

Every character gets the same stats; I try to distribute them logically for the character type I'm playing. My Warrior main was 0 presence until recently, so that may have had something to do with my failures, but only if the game is kinda designed "wrong" IMO, as I would say that a Warrior shouldn't require Presence. His Strength is upped pretty close to Maximum, and yet his damage is still largely pathetic; he only hits well on crits, which is perhaps the result of me upping Cunning a bunch. Since you can only up each stat once per level, there's not much I can do beyond that.

What kind of gear?

Given that nobody I've found sells anything better than Ogrish's low-level armor, that's pretty much what I'm stuck with. I keep finding unique weapons, and the weapon stats are complex and hard to parse, but I think I've been equipping the best thing I have in every case. My Warrior currently has the Spiral Blade, and my Charmer did the archery quest and has Beast Killer. The idea of using a basic Spear or Halberd has never occurred to me, because the Bladed Staff seems to be better, and you get it right at the beginning of the game (unless you lose to Tollus, which my third and fourth characters did, but I haven't played them much since).

Also, I can't alter Equipment on the sidekicks, which really bothers me. I wish I had the ability to kit them out completely just as I do myself, and I also wish they could use items. But that belongs in the other thread I guess.
 

Furiae

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Everything you called useless......is not. I get that the stats are DIFFERENT than you might be used to, but there's a codex in-game explaining it. When I realized presence increases your sexiness AND leadership, which boosts your party/summons, I didn't complain about the design; I tried a setup that focuses more on that. That's when I realized how OP charmers can be, unless you're fighting unfuckable things. I managed this even though my main motivation for playing is fetish-centered. If I can do it literally one-handed, you can too if you just stop arguing with the game.

(also I presume wherever you're from has traffic lights?)
 
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Herod_Hammerstar

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2020
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Everything you called useless......is not. I get that the stats are DIFFERENT than you might be used to, but there's a codex in-game explaining it. When I realized presence increases your sexiness AND leadership, which boosts your party/summons, I didn't complain about the design; I tried a setup that focuses more on that. That's when I realized how OP charmers can be, unless you're fighting unfuckable things. I managed this even though my main motivation for playing is fetish-centered. If I can do it literally one-handed, you can too if you just stop arguing with the game.

So you're saying that Strength-based Warriors are not viable within the game and I shouldn't even try playing one?

(also I presume wherever you're from has traffic lights?)

Traffic lights are not pink, so that didn't even occur to me. So you agree with the green and disagree with the red? I'll try reading again.
 

SomeNobody

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2020
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People explain how things work and you're ever making drawn-out excuses to say how the game is still at fault and it has nothing to do with your lack of ability. Despite everyone else not having any of these troubles with the gameplay.

So you're saying that Strength-based Warriors are not viable within the game and I shouldn't even try playing one?
I play a strength-based Human Warrior equipped with sword and board, their points on levelup go into Strength, Agility and then either Cunning or Toughness.
They are very much viable and have not had any trouble getting through the game.
 
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