Your gripes with CoC II

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GraphiteCrow

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Have you guys updated the Salamander TFs to include getting a Salamander Dick? I remember hearing from Savin that he thought it was already done but from what I can tell it hasn't happened yet.

Swear on me mum this is like the 10th time I've been sure 'mander TF has been changed to give lizard dick.

I am playing the pub release atm and the Turgid Mushroom CInderlead still only adds size to the penis rather than transforming its type.

Edit: yeah it is the same with the backer build.
 
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Herod_Hammerstar

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Dec 24, 2020
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You should try some actual threat management if you're that squishy. Those colored orbs on the portraits aren't just for show after all.

That doesn't really work unless you have a tank in your party. And my warrior character is a terrible tank for some reason. My other characters all recruit Brint, but he can't really actively tank for anyone else in any way I've managed to find out. Only warriors get Guarded Stance, I think?

Also only the PC can use Sense, and you can't Sense an opponent you've Sense'd before, it saves their data so you can just open their page and check.

What do you mean "open their page"?

Anyway, this isn't some open world game like Fall Out, Far Cry, whatever, you're basically just traveling down the road or trails, nor do some of the companions even fit the stealthy type anyway, like Brint.

Hence why I don't always recruit Brint.

It's only one button to run away from a fight you don't want after all, which is more sense than just looking at them and saying "I win" and getting the rewards. Besides some people like myself like some of the defeat scenes.

Again, I don't always have time to flee after I start losing (enemy 1 knocks down the healer, enemy 2 knocks down my guy, I never even get an action), and fleeing doesn't always succeed, so a failed effort gives the enemy two more attacks before I get another turn. It's pretty fucking dangerous; even a fairly beef level 3 party of two can lose against a lone level 2 monster.
 

GraphiteCrow

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That doesn't really work unless you have a tank in your party. And my warrior character is a terrible tank for some reason. My other characters all recruit Brint, but he can't really actively tank for anyone else in any way I've managed to find out. Only warriors get Guarded Stance, I think?



What do you mean "open their page"?



Hence why I don't always recruit Brint.



Again, I don't always have time to flee after I start losing (enemy 1 knocks down the healer, enemy 2 knocks down my guy, I never even get an action), and fleeing doesn't always succeed, so a failed effort gives the enemy two more attacks before I get another turn. It's pretty fucking dangerous; even a fairly beef level 3 party of two can lose against a lone level 2 monster.

So Any PC can learn Guarded Stance, if you are not a Warrior you can go to Garth and Learn it. It is difficult being a tank as a player as you getting defeated is game over rather than just your teammate going down. I recommend buffing Toughness, Agility, and Presence as I believe warriors with heavy armor use toughness rather than willpower for fortitude.

For "open their page" could mean many things, near their character icons there are 3 dots, you can click on them to show you your team's skills and talents. you can also go to your character menu in Journal and at the bottom, you can select between yourself and your companions to see their stats. You can also make it so you can control the whole party rather than just your character, it is in both the options menu and during combat in the combat menu at the bottom of the screen.

I have no idea how much of this info you already know, I am just going through it just in case you don't.
 
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Herod_Hammerstar

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So Any PC can learn Guarded Stance, if you are not a Warrior you can go to Garth and Learn it.

But this means replacing your own innate. If you're a White Mage, you'll probably need Heal way more; if you're a Black Mage, Withering Bolt may well still be more useful. Only the Charmer seems really likely to be worth training away his innate (and maybe Warriors if you have Brint and Cait), and frankly all of the Charmer's powers look kind of useless to me (this was exactly why I recruited both Brint and Cait for my Charmer, which is probably why he's doing better than my other two-character parties).

It is difficult being a tank as a player as you getting defeated is game over rather than just your teammate going down.

Yep, that's definitely a problem. It also bothers me that you can't do inventory management on your followers, and that using an item may or may not give you the option to use it on an ally instead of yourself, with no real way of knowing before you try it, and no undo if the result is unsatisfactory.

You can also make it so you can control the whole party rather than just your character, it is in both the options menu and during combat in the combat menu at the bottom of the screen.

I always do; it took very little time for me to decide the combat AI was unsatisfactory.

I have no idea how much of this info you already know, I am just going through it just in case you don't.

This is the correct approach, thank you.[/quote][/quote]
 

GraphiteCrow

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But this means replacing your own innate. If you're a White Mage, you'll probably need Heal way more; if you're a Black Mage, Withering Bolt may well still be more useful. Only the Charmer seems really likely to be worth training away his innate (and maybe Warriors if you have Brint and Cait), and frankly all of the Charmer's powers look kind of useless to me (this was exactly why I recruited both Brint and Cait for my Charmer, which is probably why he's doing better than my other two-character parties).

It is all a matter of build preference. one of my characters is a physical DPS character which I feel the Warrior passive talents do not mesh well, so I chose to be a Thief for the increase in crits and just have a mixture of physical skills from any class I prefer or even classless skills I have gained throughout the game.

I also would not underestimate the Charmer. Charmers were amazing considering the majority of their offensive skills are based on resolve damage and only special enemies had over 100 resolve. I don't know how the Gang is changing resolve combat in the newer patches but it used to be brutal. used to be able to take out enemies in a turn or 2.
 

Herod_Hammerstar

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Well I almost never see a Resolve that isn't over 100, although it is frequently lower, and often much lower, than Health. The system definitely has some unbalance to it, but as I learn more about it, it's clearly *somewhat* manageable.
 

Balaknightfang

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New Have you guys updated the Salamander TFs to include getting a Salamander Dick? I remember hearing from Savin that he thought it was already done but from what I can tell it hasn't happened yet.
I was writing the TF blurb to finally fix this before I got dragged back into the appearance screen rework stuff, so I'm afraid not
 

The Observer

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After reading through everything, both on this topic and others, the issues boil down to:

-Self-inflicted problems -- most notably, the insistence on running two-man teams. No, the game is not balanced around you having anything less than three in your party, no, we're not going to compensate, yes, there are two or three encounters that do this because they were first released when Cait was the only companion in-game and were scaled up when we finally slid Brint into the game. You have the freedom to play a certain way if you like, but the game world isn't going to bend over to accommodate it; game developers do not balance around their players doing a no items no dodge no sphere grid level 1 pacifist no skills run.

-The desire to be handheld to a degree more than we're willing to do -- if you push the button that says don't get involved, you don't get involved and the game ends, because you miss the crux of the plot hook. When you push the button that says "x" and get "x", don't be surprised when we don't pull a but thou must and instead say "okay, goodbye". We shouldn't be, but there are players who are expressly horrified that they blew up a planet when our sister game presents to them the option to do so highlighted in bold, so there you have it. There's a reluctance to explore and experiment there for fear of losing or wasting resources, and it's not an approach we are interested in encouraging. We put retry buttons right after all bad ends, losing otherwise is a slap on the wrist mechanically in the loss of money and/or some corruption at most, and frequent autosaves mean easy reloading and erasure of one's mistakes if one's buttginity is paramount.

Much of the information you actually want (for example, re: stats and what they do) is actually a short hop away, in the above case, in the codex or takes a little digging, but by your own narration the fear of losing or wasting resources is holding you back from exploring to find such.

-The argument that game design should follow what makes "sense", inasmuch as what one's subjective sense should be, but basically boils down to: "why didn't they use a phoenix down on Aerith?" The shine to being the guy to repeatedly point out that dragons aren't aerodynamic and that there's no way their wings should be able to generate enough lift to carry them, it wears off quickly. They fly anyway, because flying dragons are cool, and people who try to theorise about hydrogen bladders miss the point.

No, many of the design and narrative decisions we made don't make sense, inasmuch as that subjective metric is constant. We don't require players to eat, drink or sleep, because that would be tedious and isn't the aim of the game, we don't require players to have minimum lust to fuck the way the old games used to, somehow, taking a two-foot dick inside of you doesn't cause organ damage and orifice tearing, no, parasitic eggs introduced up your butt don't cause sepsis and death, yes, you hold the same number of items regardless of how many companions you have with you, yes, a bottle occupies the same amount of space planks of wood do. Etc, etc, etc.

We make these decisions for various reasons: to stick with Savin's vision for the game, to reduce tedium, to streamline the experience, to make sure players can concentrate on the porn instead of being reminded to eat every two steps, to not penalise certain body types, for combat balance, etc, etc, etc. Making sense isn't even on the list of considerations here.

***

While I'm glad you're still having enough fun with the game to stick with it for now and of course, you're free to voice your thoughts and everything and discuss them on the forums as is the point of these threads, do understand not much action is going to be taken on your feedback for the above reasons.
 
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Paradox01

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TheShepard256

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That doesn't really work unless you have a tank in your party. And my warrior character is a terrible tank for some reason. My other characters all recruit Brint, but he can't really actively tank for anyone else in any way I've managed to find out.
'Warrior' and 'Tank' are not synonymous e.g. Brint's a warrior, but he's clearly a massive damage-dealer, not a tank. If you want a dedicated tank, Atugia's available pretty early; just hold back on the big-damage attacks in the first few rounds to make sure she generates enough Threat through her own abilities.
 

Tide Hunter

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I was annoyed that this option was a Game Over; it could just as easily have turned into Garth coming over and asking you more directly to help this person, maybe even bribing you in some fashion (while the other two options gave you different bribes, such as a "courage bonus" to your stats instead of a piece of equipment). Just because Kass is the big bad doesn't mean that a level 1 character should immediately go out and attack "it"; you'll keep hearing about what's going on and should eventually come to the conclusion that you need to do something, but not that early.
Why should it not be a Game Over? Like how in the Far Cry games where you need to do something in the beginning, if you don't do it then the events of the story turn out totally different. Sure, Kass appears either way, but the entire reason for your character to engage vanishes if you don't go with Cait at the start. And as for the bribing/asking, why should Garth? There's several patrons at the bar, and the PC is completely unimportant before heading to the temple with Cait, so there's nothing of interest to get Garth to ask you. And several storybeats do not work without the PC's presence at the temple. The writers should not have to rewrite huge chunks of the story to accommodate a choice which indicates disinterest in game's plot.
Well that's a bit of an issue. A smaller party should have the advantage in issues like stealth, and if lone enemies get extra actions then so should a lone player.
It's not an issue. You don't get stealth bonuses to combat or something like that beyond specific abilities, and there's few occasions where stealth is even an option outside of combat, and those are never penalized by who your companions are (though certain companions may instead support alternative options). This is a game in which you are expected to always have a full party, and if you don't want to engage with it as such (like I did back when I first played, back when the Foothills were the only available area with combat), then, well, tough. If you play Dark Souls at soul level 1, the game shouldn't make everything easier to accommodate your choice.
Avoiding an unnecessary combat should be nearly as rewarding as defeating it in many cases. Otherwise the players turn into murderhobos.
Murderhobos are a problem in a TTRPG where the story can be actively hurt by resorting to violence. In instances where the story is actively hurt be resorting to violence in a game like this, options get laid out which allow the player to see that there are viable alternatives in that situation to violence. Murderhobos are born from a scenario where peaceful solutions are discouraged when one would think it viable, but this game clearly marks where it is or isn't simply by the choices it presents to the player.
That doesn't really work unless you have a tank in your party. And my warrior character is a terrible tank for some reason. My other characters all recruit Brint, but he can't really actively tank for anyone else in any way I've managed to find out. Only warriors get Guarded Stance, I think?
1: If you want to be more tanky, buy armor. You start out with the Comfortable Clothes, which are tied for the lowest armor of the whole game (15), while also having the lowest evasion of any non-heavy armor (5). With your starting money (after you beat the tutorial and sell excess items), you should have enough to afford most of the armor items available for sale from Leorah and Ogrish, and even if you don't sell anything you should have enough for the leather coat, which has 35 armor and 20 evasion.
2: If you want a different character to tank, Atugia is the third easiest companion to recruit. Cait you start out recruited, and Brint you recruit by literally just walking into the forest, and Atugia? She's in Hawkethorne. If you go to the far right, and then go up, and continue along that path past the temple where you fought Tollus, you'll encounter her. If you're level 1 you'll almost certainly lose but there's literally no negative impacts (storywise and mechanically) for if you lose in this fight, and then you can talk to her. It is a bit rng dependent but if you enter and exit the tile she's in repeatedly some events should occur (you've said your character's a straight man so this should be fine to you) and you can recruit her. He role is to tank, and she does so quite well.
Hence why I don't always recruit Brint.
Again, I don't always have time to flee after I start losing (enemy 1 knocks down the healer, enemy 2 knocks down my guy, I never even get an action), and fleeing doesn't always succeed, so a failed effort gives the enemy two more attacks before I get another turn. It's pretty fucking dangerous; even a fairly beef level 3 party of two can lose against a lone level 2 monster.
Engage with the game the way the game is supposed to be engaged with. It's not going to accommodate your choice to not engage with it the way it's supposed to be engaged with.
But this means replacing your own innate. If you're a White Mage, you'll probably need Heal way more; if you're a Black Mage, Withering Bolt may well still be more useful. Only the Charmer seems really likely to be worth training away his innate (and maybe Warriors if you have Brint and Cait), and frankly all of the Charmer's powers look kind of useless to me (this was exactly why I recruited both Brint and Cait for my Charmer, which is probably why he's doing better than my other two-character parties).
Charmers are intended to be the non-combatant combatant. They're Presence focused, which is the stat that boosts your ally's stats and boosts your character's sexiness, and their powers are things which fit this role: Bolstering Dance buffs your whole team's survivability, both against physical and mental attacks (also it's one of a few abilities which restore resolve damage rather than physical damage, which is useful against teasing enemies), and the the Charmer gets two alternative at-wills at level four. One is Soothing Dance, which is straight up just Heal but for resolve and the Aroused condition rather than health and the Bleeding condition. The other is Song of Courage, which goes harder support aspect with no constantly active resolve heal. War Song is an aoe resolve hit, and even if you don't use it to fight with resolve, its status effect. Song of Storms can be used to buff yourself, but it's also able to target allies, which is especially useful with Brint since he's weapon-focused. The Charmer stays this way throughout, excelling at supporting allies and dealing resolve damage, and while the latter isn't quite intended with your starting teammates, they can still work with it as their own tease attacks aren't weak. They aren't useless, they're just different, in a perfectly viable way.

That said, replacing your class abilities with those of another class are useful in certain situations. My main character is a Warrior who focused hard on the damage-dealing aspect, and to support this I swapped out the at-will with the White Mage's Charge Weapon, so she hits even harder with all her abilities.
 

Savin

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Why should it not be a Game Over? Like how in the Far Cry games where you need to do something in the beginning, if you don't do it then the events of the story turn out totally different.

Yeah it's literally just there as a shout-out to FarCry.
 

GraphiteCrow

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Can't remember if I ever made this gripe. But the majority of staves not doing magical damage is a bit of a buzz kill. The Spiral Staff which has Leyline crystals pulsating with magical energy spiraling up the staff and I attack with it is by smacking my enemies with it. why not make it similar to the spore staff and give it a ranged magical attack?
 

TrustworthyTraitor

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Can't remember if I ever made this gripe. But the majority of staves not doing magical damage is a bit of a buzz kill. The Spiral Staff which has Leyline crystals pulsating with magical energy spiraling up the staff and I attack with it is by smacking my enemies with it. why not make it similar to the spore staff and give it a ranged magical attack?
So basically The Spiral Staff is slightly more expensive way of saying: " I CAST FIST!!! "
 

hustoon

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Jun 3, 2020
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Maybe this would fit better onto a wishlist thread or smth, I dunno, sue me (pls no).

The [dayNight] parser is way too inaccurate. I dunno how many gamers(tm) read through the text critically enough to look at a blurp "the sun is rising over the horizon blah blah" and then look at the time in-game and go hmm nah, it's actually 7 pm. That kind of scene can be written with certain actions, but only when a player executes them, since time can be coded into the scene (sleeping for example).

But if a player "happens upon" a scene (explore or autoplay) a writer only has the dayNight parser to use. And with that the only assumption one can make is "it's dark outside" or "it's light outside".

I know how much you guys love 'ideas guys' so let me throw one here: [timeRange] Basically, it'd work like any other range.
Code:
[timeRange 3 8 16 22|crazy stuff in early morning (3:00 to 7:59)|whoa it's day time my dudes (8:00 to 15:59)|garth get me a draink (16:00 to 21:59)|time for sleepies (22:00 to 02:59)]

A possibility to use decimal time could work, though would probably get really confusing (22.75 = 22:45). Thus, if it'd be warranted - though I doubt it since one hour precision should be enough - a split between hours and minutes might be in place.
Code:
[time.hourRange 0 8 16|crazy stuff in early morning (0:00 to 7:59)|whoa it's day time my dudes (8:00 to 15:59)|time to go to tavern (16:00 to 23:59)]
Code:
[time.minuteRange 0 480 960|crazy stuff in early morning (0:00 to 7:59)|whoa it's day time my dudes (8:00 to 15:59)|time to go to tavern (16:00 to 23:59)]
Though I think one minute precision is a bit too much, it could have its uses in certain scenes. If a writer wants a scene to have different blurps really accurately between, say 5:46 and 7:23:
Code:
[time.minuteRange 346 443|it's not 5:46 yet, bud|super specific blurp that you are very luck||you're too late, try again]

I think having an hourRange would be sweet. In my writing I have written and thought of a few scenes where I would like to use something like that.

The minute range is easy to use (for a writer) since all that it requires is to use a bit of math (oh no) to multiply the hour by 60 and then add minutes to get the correct times, but honestly I don't know how much value it would add when compared to complexity of the coding needed for it.
 

Alypia

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Apr 22, 2016
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A specific complex parser for time of day would be pretty neat, but note that you can currently account for the numerical time with curly braces and commented instructions to the coders.
 
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YEsManKablaam

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my only gripe I think is that... man my hit rate is just literal trash without some investment. I suppose it's good to encourage some balance in making a character and not having a dud of a stat you can completely ignore but I hoped my natural level ups would let me get decent hit rates lol. Blessing is helping in that department and I think might be a permanent thing for my character.
 

Emerald

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Jun 8, 2016
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my only gripe I think is that... man my hit rate is just literal trash without some investment. I suppose it's good to encourage some balance in making a character and not having a dud of a stat you can completely ignore but I hoped my natural level ups would let me get decent hit rates lol. Blessing is helping in that department and I think might be a permanent thing for my character.
Boon up your agility.
 

Fleep

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Oct 24, 2018
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Not much of a gripe really but I lately feel like there are not enough "evil enemy" encounters. When you go to the Foothills, for example, almost every encounter feels friendly after a while.

You have harpies and yeah, Zhara fights you but she is not really your enemy. You have Vaush but he isn't really an enemy either and even stops attacking you after RoC. You have Byvernia but her encounters feels more like a friendly sparr after a while. You also have Grette but you don't even have to fight her so the only "true enemy" encounters are wyvern girl and manticore, being overwhelmed by the friendly vibes of the rest.

This gripe is even more notorious in the Frostwood, where after a while almost every encounter becomes a friendly one.

It really is not an issue, since I love all of the encounters and the character behind them, but I think more enemies could be added to balance it a bit.
 

Alypia

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Apr 22, 2016
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There's always the Painted Demon. And there's the Marked Merks, but they're not that evil and they're also a speed bump.
 

Fleep

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There's always the Painted Demon. And there's the Marked Merks, but they're not that evil and they're also a speed bump.

Yeah, there are SOME evil encounters, but I still feel the encounters are friendly in general.

I also agree with what Burn said, I think the game could use more generic evil enemy encounters so it doesn't feel like you are running into the same people. When you encounter some gnolls they are just some gnolls and you don't know if they're the exact same gnolls who attacked you last time, but when you encounter Zhara or Byv you know they are the same Zhara and Byv you saw last time. Maybe that's another reason why it feels friendlier, because you are already familiar with the characters, they are NPCs you already know and like.
 
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Savin

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I feel like the game could use more "generic" enemies in general. Stuff like the imps and wyverns. It gives the illusion of a larger world imo.

I keep badgering people to write generic encounters.... and half the time they end up turning into set NPCs. :C

In the new year we may be doing something to add a lot of generic enemies to the world.
 

Herod_Hammerstar

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Adding more enemies would mean earning XP faster, and thus hitting the level cap faster.

But I definitely think the game could use more nonsexual opponents. The seductive ones are a bit thick on the ground by comparison ATM.
 

Forget Me Knot

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Through the Looking Glass
This is unrelated but is the bit about Nakano seeming to only smile when Kinu is around meant to appear in the description of his appearance regardless of whether Kinu actually exists or not? Because she doesn't in my one playthrough, so, seeing her be mentioned broke my immersion a bit, to be honest.
 
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