Myrellion Content Discussion (GENERAL)

[StarcraftJunkie]

Of their city.  Singular.

Currently, if you don't count their occupied cities as still being theirs (which I do, for things like this). They used to have more. And there's talks of retconning it so things aren't so ridiculously dire for them. What's your point?

Also, it's really annoying how you sometimes can't get rid of a quote block in the new forums.

 

[argenten]

Hidden Content

I feel this proves the dangers of the fertility based power structure of the Gold society. Irellia makes it clear that it is really easy for a new queen to get in over her head if she expands her family/powerbase too far too fast. Now while this is true of any system of governance, with the Golds it adds the qualifier of a dysfunctional family if things go wrong and there are fewer things more personal than family feuds. And I also think this actually negates the queens being able to effectively distance themselves from their soldiers as generals need to sometimes. They are literally sending their children out to fight and die by the thousands...that will affect anyone with a psychology similar to ours in a profound way. Whatever Fen, Savin and the others end up doing, I feel that the Golds have been irrevocably altered by their Great war and their culture will never be the same.

Same can easily be said for the Reds too. Hence the fact that while I identify more with the Reds (the physiology of the Gods tends to throw me off a bit with the extra bosom and proportions) in part because they remind me of the Federation from Starship troopers, I do not want either side to really "win" in the sense of wiping out the other side. I will pursuing the path of mutual peace as much as the game allows.

I also feel the "orange Myr solution" issue was hit on the head of the nail by Juro in the sense that the stigma of being "other" will last for a long time before the option simply being there is the most positive change it can offer. 

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Being able to pick your representatives rather than them having power by birthright is kind of an important difference between aristocracy and representative democracy. ¬¬

The Golds just have a system where one has to satisfy certain biological criteria (being a Queen) to obtain a vote, and the weight of the vote is proportional to the amount of X ( offspring ) the individual in question possess. Both practices were quite common in several societies throughout the history, which were still considered democracies.

I'd also like to point out/suggest something that may or may not cause a furor; The Golds have their own version of chemical dependency or the capacity for such to be abused with their royal jelly. Where the Reds have the aphrodisiac venom, the Gold have the hyper honey that boosts the energy of any who drink it. Considering how rare it is (in the sense of procuring it) and how hard one must work to get it, it's obviously not as bad as the Red venom in terms of ease of abuse. But there are many cases of people abusing caffeine, or more serious drugs to get them through and I can see the royal honey reaching that point if the Queens thought that the benefits of having their scientists or soldiers hopped up on it were worth enough. 

I'm not sure if the energy restorative qualities of Myr Nectar, or their scale isn't a gameplay only thing.

If this is to resemble how things generally are in reality, it's likely that the state of governance with the gold myr is somewhere between what the queens claim it is (almost 100% benevolent with few to no abuses, and those that happen get rectified quickly) and what the red myr claim it is (a bunch of tyrants that stomp on their people on a regular basis).

Since the game hasn't really described any sort of checks and balances for the queens in gold myr society, I'm leaning towards believing that it's closer to what the red myr claim it is than what the gold myr queens claim it is. After all, apparently the only checks on the queens are their subjects revolting from too much mistreatment (which our species has demonstrated is often an inadequate means of checking power) or a more powerful queen or conglomerate of queens deciding to put a stop to any wrongdoings of a particular queen out of the goodness of her/their heart/s. 

Number of children a Queen has is stated to determine her 'voting power', which implies that the majority, or even all of the decisions are made by a joint ruling body of queens. It may not be the most fail/abuse-safe system. but it works fine for Goldies.

 

[SorenMageofMareth]

Unless there's some hidden sire bond psychology thing I also assume part of having kids as voting power is the implication that they can go fuck you mom, and go shack up with Mrs. Robinson.

And that if they have remotely human levels of empathy towards their kids, like it seems Golds and Krogans do rather than what the breeding strategy would normally dictate, Golds have old don't fuck this up for your kids motivation to not suck. 

Now this doesn't prevent simple bad parents, and the whole not simply being trained for the job but well modern day democracies have similar issues with the levers by which people can get into power not being directly related to competence at actually doing the job. 

As for the chemical weaponry thing. It's a warcrime but well. Way too much fantasy combat with magic in war that often fits exactly that same criteria.  And Red Venom rape. 

 

[Flo]

I think it's not that hard to imagine that, even if to us after all we have been through, the Gold/Red societies are okay as to how they work, because they woked fine  before the war, and they will certainly continue to work if the war gets solved. I think the fact that you guys are trying to focus on seeing which society is inherently bad or worst. They are first colonies of ants, Golds much more primal, so for them been born from one single Queen. and working for the colony as both individuals and a groups is the best. It was stated on the first character of the Myr, that their societies do not work as humans societies do. They first obey the colony and look for the Queen, since without her they die, no more sisters and brothers to fuck. That's how they work. And they work, or they use to, before the war got so violent one side is nearly annhilated, and the other dies from their injuries. That's how bad it got. But their societies tho might need a change, it's more in the ideals department. 

Perhaps the most respectful way for both to keep living is by making the UGC take complete charge of the situation. They are already prepared to erase anything living and breathing in the planet, why not a heavier intervention that doesn't end in one side dying, one making a side take dominance(Reds), and one reforming red society and rebuilding gold as it is. One part of the key to solve it is already mentioned, with the possibilities of taking reds out as labor, having them explore the galaxy and get fucked by more races. Let Steele grow a business out of both the Orange Myr, and Red Myr/Nyrean Labor. Makes for also a credit boost, while expanding the company, which is what we are supposed to be doing.

Once a closet society, it will be reformed simply by opening to the UGC and Steele.

I should also mention that the Reds are all so expanded into Gold territory, so hurt, that they could die by simply conquering the Golds completely. The Red federation could, by the simple act of time, disband. The Reds are also in a bad spot. Atleast that's what I like to think, since well, the Reds are basicaly keeping slaves drugged by their own narcotic for sex. And made an entire race addicted to their venom. And they don't even drink their honey. Even I did that. 

 

[Fenoxo]

A couple thoughts. A lot of discussion is circling around comparing the queens to generals. I'm sure they have actual generals to handle the military command. They're a political leading body, and while they may command the military to go to war, I'm sure actual military-minded myr are the ones positioning troops in the trenches. Irellia is basically just bemoaning sending troops to the front lines and second guessing her own decisions.

Next up, something was said about dumping untrained troops on the front line. I don't think that was ever my intent for the golds, but given their dire predicament, it's possible it happened at some point during the conflict. When your back is against the wall, you do crazy things.

Also of note is the suitability of gold government. True, it isn't what we know as Democracy, but the people are represented by their mothers. One interesting thing to note is that the queens doubtless care for their children - a bit of biological hardwiring that we humans have as well (to some extent - there are outliers). That may actually be advantageous compared to real world democracies. In most countries, you would be hard-pressed to find representatives who cared about their representatives more than securing funding for the next election. Even if some of the queens aren't the most well-qualified, they're generally going to look out for their people, even if some are severe or eccentric in how they ant to do it.

Also some studies have shown that random promotion may actually be the most efficient method of handling advancement: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/nov/01/random-promotion-research

Also of note: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

 

[Savin]

Next up, something was said about dumping untrained troops on the front line. I don't think that was ever my intent for the golds, but given their dire predicament, it's possible it happened at some point during the conflict. When your back is against the wall, you do crazy things.

Right. Nehzara and Sellera both mention, I think, the Golds had an actual, trained military and did indeed have pretty decent troops in the beginning of the war. The Republic was just forced to rely on poorly-trained conscripts more and more as the war progressed (and doubtless the Reds also suffered from declining troops standards as things went on. They, too, ended up conscripting near the end of the war, too). 

 

[The Observer]

To build onto Fen's point, the thing is that we've been indoctrinated in the modern era that Democracy is the Most Amazing Thing Ever since sliced bread. It's still the official party line, although there are growing streams of thought that alternatives may be better for particular people. After all, if you install democracy amongst cannibals - as with many attempts to "spread democracy" - don't be surprised when they vote for a leader who eats human flesh. The critiques of democracy are numerous, ranging from the low-information voter to rational voter ignorance, the propensity of governing bodies to expand the voting base in hopes of garnering votes, etc, etc, etc.

This goes double for aliens, who may have very different needs, psychologies, and rational social structures from that of humans. Ausar work better as a monarchy, and it seems the gold Myr do, too. Nonesuch's Anatae essentially are space bird communists. This is science fiction, where we should be exploring different ideas and peoples. If a universal "best" form of governance doesn't exist even amidst humans, why does anyone think that with so many life forms in the galaxy that evolved in a wide disparity of environments and biologies, we won't have space communists, space monarchists, space fascists, space -whatever-ists?

 

[EmperorG]

To build onto Fen's point, the thing is that we've been indoctrinated in the modern era that Democracy is the Most Amazing Thing Ever since sliced bread. It's still the official party line, although there are growing streams of thought that alternatives may be better for particular people. After all, if you install democracy amongst cannibals - as with many attempts to "spread democracy" - don't be surprised when they vote for a leader who eats human flesh. The critiques of democracy are numerous, ranging from the low-information voter to rational voter ignorance, the propensity of governing bodies to expand the voting base in hopes of garnering votes, etc, etc, etc.

This goes double for aliens, who may have very different needs, psychologies, and rational social structures from that of humans. Ausar work better as a monarchy, and it seems the gold Myr do, too. Nonesuch's Anatae essentially are space bird communists. This is science fiction, where we should be exploring different ideas and peoples. If a universal "best" form of governance doesn't exist even amidst humans, why does anyone think that with so many life forms in the galaxy that evolved in a wide disparity of environments and biologies, we won't have space communists, space monarchists, space fascists, space -whatever-ists?

Not just that, the idea of "Democracy is best thing ever!" leads to people wanting to enforce democracy on others. Others who either don't want said democracy, or as you stated pick something the ones who pushed for Democracy don't want to happen. Iraq is a good example of why you shouldn't just push for a switch to democracy as a solution to problems, heck there is a reason that for most of human history a democracy where anyone can vote was seen as nothing more than mob rule; a tyranny of the majority over the minority.

Honestly I'd like to see more stories were the democratic state is the bad guy and the Empire the good guy. Because it gets a little absurd how much favoritism democratic states get in most stories, Episode III of Star Wars showed us how easy it is to manipulate democracy into making really stupid decisions.

 

[Fenoxo]

I like to think we did a pretty good job of making both sides good guys and also a little bit bad guys. Personally, I think the reds are more villainous, but that's just my creator bias speaking.

 

[argenten]

I like to think we did a pretty good job of making both sides good guys and also a little bit bad guys. Personally, I think the reds are more villainous, but that's just my creator bias speaking.

I agree, and both sides have NPCs that make it hard to dislike them or write them off easily. 

 

[Dragonman firebane]

What about bringing forth all the skeletons from the red's & the gold's closets.

I mean  both sides are probably doing or did some shady stuff that if the common populace knew they wouldn't support this stupid war. Because not every government is perfect and there are people in every government that are only looking out for their own interests, not that of there people's.

 

[argenten]

What about bringing forth all the skeletons from the red's & the gold's closets.

I mean  both sides are probably doing or did some shady stuff that if the common populace knew they wouldn't support this stupid war. Because not every government is perfect and there are people in every government that are only looking out for their own interests, not that of there people's.

I think this risks drowning the player in Myrellion and stalling the game/story. As in depth as the details for the ant world are, this is a "roving space 'make kirk green as a slave girl with envy' sex romp". The more delving done into the stuff you mention here, the more things are stalled and run into boner-bane territory. 

 

[JimThermic]

What about bringing forth all the skeletons from the red's & the gold's closets.

Probably a quick way to potentially generate boner-kill for certain characters. E.g. Feeling dirty for screwing someone who knows about and helps facilitate war crimes.

I mean, if the depth doesn't come at the expense of making Generals and Queens on either end look morally reprehensible, sure.

 

[argenten]

Probably a quick way to potentially generate boner-kill for certain characters. E.g. Feeling dirty for screwing someone who knows about and helps facilitate war crimes.
I mean, if the depth doesn't come at the expense of making Generals and Queens on either end look morally reprehensible, sure.

I just don't see the point if it comes down to it. It seems like a lot of work for you guys for the ability to use a tar brush. I mean, we already see some skeletons in the various closets and making more for the sake of such seems almost bashy.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Probably a quick way to potentially generate boner-kill for certain characters. E.g. Feeling dirty for screwing someone who knows about and helps facilitate war crimes.

You mean something like Liliana's recollections or Anzhela's 'Red Venom' dialogue option?  ¬¬

Personally, I don't see much point in letting the PC dig deeper unless they'll also get some opportunities to make all/most of those things better. Which is unlikely, for reasons argenten has stated above.

 

[JimThermic]

You mean something like Liliana's recollections or Anzhela's 'Red Venom' dialogue option?  ¬¬

I'm just walking through the already open door on THAT particular topic. 

 

[argenten]

If I was going to go into any depth, I'd go in the direction of either trying to make things better, like with the Orange Myr research, or perhaps cooperating with Nova about denuding the no-myr's land of mines. Plus, what vested interest does Steele have in digging up the corpses in the Myr's pasts? He isn't a reporter or remotely involved in the UNCG or w/e it's called. Any investment into finding out the details of the depravities of the war has to come from a deeply personal source. Unless something happens to one of the well liked characters to start the path (one option there), I really don't see the motivation.

 

[Nonesuch]

Unless something happens to one of the well liked characters to start the path (one option there), I really don't see the motivation.

Just kinda hoping he IS well liked.

 

[Dragonman firebane]

Probably a quick way to potentially generate boner-kill for certain characters. E.g. Feeling dirty for screwing someone who knows about and helps facilitate war crimes.
I mean, if the depth doesn't come at the expense of making Generals and Queens on either end look morally reprehensible, sure.

I'm not saying that some of the characters we know very well helped facilitate war crimes, they may just know about something not partake in it.

But I think the red myr in the Manson in kressia, sellera would be a prime example of a character that dose facilitate such atrocities but then again I haven't played the game in awhile so that may or may not be true.

 

[argenten]

Just kinda hoping he IS well liked.

"He" as in Steele, or another character that is not springing to mind?

 

[Consciousone]

Neither the Reds nor the Golds have the moral fiber to rule a tea party, much less a planet, and if my Steele had his way he'd cunt-punt the lot of them and turn the planet into his personal harem.

Of course, that's his solution for everything from the common cold to starvation to interstellar war. He doesn't really need a reason.

 

[Magic Ted]

Remember when TiTs was a adventure thriller?

I do. Those were nice times, swashbuckling and dashing sex...

 

[Enigmatic D]

Remember when TiTs was a adventure thriller?

I do. Those were nice times, swashbuckling and dashing sex...

Exploration throughout diverse planets and meeting unique races....

Good times.....

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Remember when TiTs was a adventure thriller?

I do. Those were nice times, swashbuckling and dashing sex...

Are you telling us Far Cry 3 and 4 aren't 'adventure thrillers'? Those games teach us that just because ruthless dictators duke it out with equally despicable freedom fighters or what-have-you among burning villages and suffering populace, doesn't me the PC can't frolic around and have fun&drugs&sex.

 

[Karretch]

Are you telling us Far Cry 3 and 4 aren't 'adventure thrillers'? Those game teaches us that just because ruthless dictators duke it out with equally despicable freedom fighters or what-have-you among burning villages and suffering populace, doesn't me the PC can't frolic around and have fun&drugs&sex.

It's off topic but FC4 teaches you that if you follow instructions you don't make a giant mess. Seriously, in the beginning, just do as he says and stay in the room.

Spoiler

Game's over within 10 or so minutes

 

[Number13]

It's off topic but FC4 teaches you that if you follow instructions you don't make a giant mess. Seriously, in the beginning, just do as he says and stay in the room.

Hidden Content

True,  actually liked that part.

 

[Galgano]

Edit: Would this be better in the Idea section or the Myrellion Discussion section? My post is designed to instigate discussion on Myrellion content, so I figured this would be a better place to put it. Most people who visit this thread have a bit of an invested interest in the future of this planet.

Since Steele already has the coordinates for the next location, would they be required to stay on Myrellion any longer? I can't see any peace council as anything more than the "be all/end all" to do for that planet after exploring it. I remember reading a Google Doc about some content on Mhenga about being able to take control of the colony and direct it towards whatever aspirations you have. A few of the outcomes were to just give it to the UGC or convert it into a harem/slave park. I can't remember whose it was though or I would post a link. The peace council wouldn't be anything more than that. A while after you have obtained the coordinates, an email will be sent out to you inviting you to take part in the council. If you don't then Myrellion will pick a random outcome. If you do decide to attend, then I think the suggestions you bring forth on probably a few conditions:

1) based on what they know about the particular races. It would take a lot of story, but having many different options to choose from based on things they learn about each race.

2) depending on how many quests you completed on the planet will determine how much support your idea has. If you didn't scratch anyone's back, then it's highly unlikely they will scratch yours.

Even if you make a suggestion, there would still be a chance that not enough people, including the Nyreans would side with you. It could be considered a game like Syri's...only with much more weight behind it.

 

[Ravelordnito]

1) based on what they know about the particular races. It would take a lot of story, but having many different options to choose from based on things they learn about each race.

2) depending on how many quests you completed on the planet will determine how much support your idea has. If you didn't scratch anyone's back, then it's highly unlikely they will scratch yours.

Even if you make a suggestion, there would still be a chance that not enough people, including the Nyreans would side with you. It could be considered a game like Syri's...only with much more weight behind it.

I know lot of people (with the exception of purists) would savescum if you could get totally shafted by the RNG when the stakes are an entire planet.

Still it could work if there was a sliding scale between which side is favored by the deal, with at least 5 or 6 options and if you didn't do enough sidequests (specifically with high ranking characters) then the deal could shift in a different direction by 1 or 2 tiers. That way it would still encourage completing the Myrellion content without missing one quest and the RNG genocide-ifying the gold myr so something.

 

[CurryBrace]

Hi! I'm new to this forum and this blog in general. I just have a question about TiTs.

I've gotten to Myrellion, befriended Taivra, and stopped the rebels. I have no clue what I'm supposed to do next. I was told Taivra wanted to see me in her chambers but I got there and the option was greyed out. How am I supposed to get the probe so I can progress to the next planet? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!