Myrellion Content Discussion (GENERAL)
- Thread starter Savin
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Was gonna say this myself. Maybe not 100% but Nazi Germany was definitely an inspiration aspect.
Can't see any similarities aside from the Nazi-exploitation-like look of Red's uniform. They have no racial theories, no occult shit, no wonder-weapon building, no super-soldiers growing (dammit Jim). Militarism is a farily universal trope; their brands of discipline and rigid hierarchy are Heinlein-like. Germans like Empires, people like Red Myr - Federations (SMAC's Spartan Federation says hello).
Wait, what's the problems with the golds? Aside from issues with sexism (which both sides have), I don't see the issue?
There's actually a kind of interesting way in which the gold myr are how the Germans viewed Soviet Russia: sneaky, subversive, large but weak and cowardly, preaching a feel-good cultural mindset, ripe for being brought down by a swift kick from a proud, strong nation. The myr war is more or less what the Germans thought the war was going to be like, an unstoppable victory driven by superiority in culture and discipline. The difference being that the gold myr actually are much weaker and more cowardly than the Russians were, that they had no winter to assist them in defense, and that somehow the reds were able to completely ignore all problems of logistics and thus actually achieved the sweeping victory that the Germans imagined they could have.
The comparison is not perfect, of course, and this was far from the first or the last time that a nation viewed its enemies as weaklings, but there's certainly strong shades of that mindset.
Some people don't like the system of queens (though the reds have it too since only certain females are fertile and those females are given non-combat positions when possible, they just don't also get big), and the chemical warfare thing is a war crime and one they're not particularly sorry about (again, though, it's something the reds also do just in a slightly different form).
The big thing that the golds do that the reds don't is that they're partnered withthe Umbrella Corporation Xenogen, but since this is literally the only reason they still exist I'm willing to give them a pass.
The comparison is not perfect, of course, and this was far from the first or the last time that a nation viewed its enemies as weaklings, but there's certainly strong shades of that mindset.
Some people don't like the system of queens (though the reds have it too since only certain females are fertile and those females are given non-combat positions when possible, they just don't also get big), and the chemical warfare thing is a war crime and one they're not particularly sorry about (again, though, it's something the reds also do just in a slightly different form).
The big thing that the golds do that the reds don't is that they're partnered with
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Reds lack a single over bearing insanely charismatic (and just downright insane) leader. They have several leaders of more or less equal station at the top who understand how war should work, and elected by the troops. That and they also thankfully don't have the bright idea that having 9 nuclear programs running at the same time and in competition for a share of a dwindling budget is a good thing.
If the Reds really are a Nazi Germany analog, then they're an example of one that isn't pants on head retarded about how to manage its army. (That thing about 9 nuke programs? Totally true, Hitler believed survival of the fittest should apply to government and that was how he wanted it to be done, the secret police were also divided over multiple competing organizations)
If the Reds really are a Nazi Germany analog, then they're an example of one that isn't pants on head retarded about how to manage its army. (That thing about 9 nuke programs? Totally true, Hitler believed survival of the fittest should apply to government and that was how he wanted it to be done, the secret police were also divided over multiple competing organizations)
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So basically the problems with the golds are that they're losing militarily and that they're cowards? I wouldn't necessarily agree with the latter. They're less warlike, though.
I'll continue to sit over here rooting for the underdogs.
I'll continue to sit over here rooting for the underdogs.
I support the natural orange myrs, the true underdogs that suffer from the racism of both sides, as Juro explains to the player. To bad none exist.
Hey, uh, I'm getting locked out of the palace after rightfully taking Taivra as my subject and then leaving to turn in the quest immediately. If I stick around for a little while I get the Nyrean Royal trait, which prevents me from being locked out... Is this intentional? Does Our Glorious Queen get pissed if I subjugate her and run off to finish my errand?
Even without the Orange Pill, wasn't there a scenario where there was a birth between a gold and red myr and the child was harshly shunned or something?
What you've described is Third Reich's view of western democracies. They knew that there was nothing 'feel-good' about Soviet mindset, or weak about it's people, what's with additional 3 to 6 years of Civil War and several major conflicts with it's neighbors. Their view on Soviet union was more along the lines of 'savage, backwards hordes of subhumans lead by a clique of rulers (commie/Jewish) they won't be willing to die for'. That last point is the only thing there that's applicable to the Myr War, and in fact points to one of Reds' major smart decisions: not to execute the Queens or loyal queen supporters en mass in captured cities; not to enslave and plunder on the same level as the Nazis. Had they made the wrong choice, they would have faced a lot more resistance. That's a major deciding factor in the war, alongside their ability to somehow utilize blitzkrieg tactics without mechanized units, their immunity to logistic and the mind-boggling incompetence of the Gold Myr.
I'd also argue against accusing Gold Myr of cowardliness. There's very little a lonely soldier or a single unit can do when the front has collapsed and there is no chain of command or even communication, save for some suicidal heroics. Even those need to be organized and coordinated to be effective. Possibly, some author would address something like Golds' Brest Fortress in the future. In any case, such things can't turn the tide of war. However when the organization problems are mitigate, same previously retreating soldiers can become part of successful defense or offense. Eastern Front was like that to some extent.
Jim's Red Myr doctor NPC mentions Federation having it's own super-soldier program that's rumored to involve Xenogen in one way or another.
To be honest, the whole situation on Myrellion reminds me more of WWI than WWII (with the addition of nuclear bombs), what with the chemical warfare (used by the Germans in WWI, to horrifying effectiveness) and the Golds thinking they were only going to 'squash a few rebel hives' going in makes me think of how the French thought they were going to win the war with their cavalry while the Germans had fucking tanks. Yeah. The French were so unprepared.
I remember the-in-hindsight-ironically-named Kaizer describing the Reds as being considerably more Second Reich than Third, and I think there's a lot to be said for that. A highly militarised, swiftly industrialising empire that was constructed out of squabbling but ultimately like-minded city states. It has rigid ideas on society and the individual, beneath the surface there's a worrying tendency towards racism, however it does treat its citizens, some of whom are very different from the norm, well.
Thing is though, that kind of society tends to view larger, more laid-back neighbouring societies as not really deserving of being larger. They tend to start arm races and increase tension with a view to set the record straight.
Thing is though, that kind of society tends to view larger, more laid-back neighbouring societies as not really deserving of being larger. They tend to start arm races and increase tension with a view to set the record straight.
I would have liked Myr a lot more if it was just WWII Axis/Allies squabbling over open polygamy and harem alphary.
Problem is, the Reds were constructed like they were written by three to five different authors who had different ideas and feelings on what the Reds were. The Golds too, to a lesser extent.
Annnnd because of that, now you end up with people saying "But Nehzara contradicts Lieve, and Lieve contradicts Sellera, and Sellera contradicts Irellia, and Irella contradicts bleh."
And so peeps come into my documents and say "But the Codex or Nehzara said this!" and I'm like "Well, Codex or Nehzara is wrong, because Savin said differently yesterday." Or even stuff from this thread now spilling into Anzhela doc.
Annnnd because of that, now you end up with people saying "But Nehzara contradicts Lieve, and Lieve contradicts Sellera, and Sellera contradicts Irellia, and Irella contradicts bleh."
And so peeps come into my documents and say "But the Codex or Nehzara said this!" and I'm like "Well, Codex or Nehzara is wrong, because Savin said differently yesterday." Or even stuff from this thread now spilling into Anzhela doc.
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I don't see that as much of a problem per se, because people always will have different ideas and feelings about two opposing sides in a war. The real difficulty is that the PC never sees the actions or consequences of the things the Reds or Golds are purported of doing, so can only form an opinion based on all the competing secondary information they receive instead.
I'd like to think the experience of Myrellion was a formative experience for us all and Fen in particular, and that he will try and provide clearer guidelines and lore for serious conflicts in the future. I'd like to think that.
I'd like to think the experience of Myrellion was a formative experience for us all and Fen in particular, and that he will try and provide clearer guidelines and lore for serious conflicts in the future. I'd like to think that.
Yes--chronologically, the Nyreans of the palace need to recuperate after the battle, so the crowning is postponed until your character returns later (after 12 hours or more, I think). So everything is solved off-screen before the official ruling is made. Alternatively, not fighting and marrying Taivra will give the status instantaneously.
Problem is, the Reds were constructed like they were written by three to five different authors who had different ideas and feelings on what the Reds were. The Golds too, to a lesser extent.
Annnnd because of that, now you end up with people saying "But Nehzara contradicts Lieve, and Lieve contradicts Sellera, and Sellera contradicts Irellia, and Irella contradicts bleh."
And so peeps come into my documents and say "But the Codex or Nehzara said this!" and I'm like "Well, Codex or Nehzara is wrong, because Savin said differently yesterday." Or even stuff from this thread now spilling into Anzhela doc.
That's because Myr was kinda messy this time around. The first wave of writers basically had the brainstorm document to base off of and were had the pass to make whatever happen. Which... isn't the best way of doing things, turns out. That shouldn't be a thing again, at least, so there shouldn't be repeats.
Normally, I'm all for smacking the player right on the head with harsh realities of the setting, Witcher-style, however IMO that'd make the whole planet into Land of the Sad Boner. I personally wouldn't be able to enjoy the war-drama and the sexy times side of things simultaneously.
Dude, it's like you didn't even read any of the posts about what folks find wrong with the golds. The queen ruling system and chemical weapons use are some major points of contention against them.
I know that they get your jibblies going, and one of the things against them (the hyper-fertile, all-ruling queens) is one of the things that probably really gets your jibblies going, but just pretending that any serious drawbacks to their fictional way of life and governance system don't exist is irritating.
I think the mess of describtion on hows & whats are actually more fascinating ^^
Usually a sci-fi/fantasy race is rather ..stereotypical and the ppl in it acknoledge the stereotype (or trade it for the "rebell"-stereotype i guess ^^)
The Myr started kinda stereotypical, but somehow no myr is willing to agree to *one* specific stereotype yet
I personally prefer the red myr simply because I prefer their (optical) desing, that and I have a thing for tough & disciplined women ^_^
...also:
I give you the racial stereotypes but why do so many ppl think that the nazis where all into occult? Hitler loudly said that he thinks that all occult was bullshit and so did many around him..
a dozen idiots don't turn the fashist into occult.. Also, wonder-weapon building is misleading since the term was mostly PR for the ppl. (We still can win the war, we have a new Wonder Weapon!)
I always thought the Red Myr were a mix of stereotypical imperial germans (WW1) with some nazi-aestetics into the mix? The portrayal of German Empire fits *much* better with the Reds that the third Reich..
(Especially if you consider that the Empire could be described as a federation since the kings of germany did not give all their power to the emperor *in* germany)
Usually a sci-fi/fantasy race is rather ..stereotypical and the ppl in it acknoledge the stereotype (or trade it for the "rebell"-stereotype i guess ^^)
The Myr started kinda stereotypical, but somehow no myr is willing to agree to *one* specific stereotype yet
I personally prefer the red myr simply because I prefer their (optical) desing, that and I have a thing for tough & disciplined women ^_^
...also:
I give you the racial stereotypes but why do so many ppl think that the nazis where all into occult? Hitler loudly said that he thinks that all occult was bullshit and so did many around him..
a dozen idiots don't turn the fashist into occult.. Also, wonder-weapon building is misleading since the term was mostly PR for the ppl. (We still can win the war, we have a new Wonder Weapon!)
I always thought the Red Myr were a mix of stereotypical imperial germans (WW1) with some nazi-aestetics into the mix? The portrayal of German Empire fits *much* better with the Reds that the third Reich..
(Especially if you consider that the Empire could be described as a federation since the kings of germany did not give all their power to the emperor *in* germany)