Myrellion Content Discussion (GENERAL)

[Nik_van_Rijn]

I give you the racial stereotypes but why do so many ppl think that the nazis where all into occult? Hitler loudly said that he thinks that all occult was bullshit and so did many around him..

a dozen idiots don't turn the fashist into occult..  Also, wonder-weapon building is misleading since the term was mostly PR for the ppl. (We still can win the war, we have a new Wonder Weapon!)

I always thought the Red Myr were a mix of stereotypical imperial germans (WW1) with some nazi-aestetics into the mix? The portrayal of German Empire fits *much* better with the Reds that the third Reich..

(Especially if you consider that the Empire could be described as a federation since the kings of germany did not give all their power to the emperor *in* germany)

I was, for the most part, using the way that Third Reich is usually portrayed in fiction and not the actual thing as a reference point.

Even the latter has conducted at least some form of super-soldier programs and did use ridiculously big and arguably impractical 'super-weapons' before the late stages of the WWII when it started using the term as a propaganda meme.

I'd also like to point out that the rigid social structure of the Second Reich is very different from the idealized, democratic in a sense, militaristic meritocracy of the Scarlet Federation.

 

[Sly214]

Just be a non-biased observer and sex everything. I find this to be the easiest position. Both the Golds and Reds have good and bad selling points. 

I personally find Missionary to be the easiest position.

 

[crushogre]

One negative I'm surprised no one has mentioned about the Golds is their use of poorly trained conscripts with the apparent attitude of "if they die we'll just breed more".

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

One negative I'm surprised no one has mentioned about the Golds is their use of poorly trained conscripts with the apparent attitude of "if they die we'll just breed more".

*The maturity of Myr doesn't progress anywhere near quick enough for this to be a thing.

*The draft system is described as something new for the Republic and something they had to resort to. They kept loosing soldiers, so they had no other way but to use more fresh recruits if they wanted to prolong their free existence. 

*Queen Irellia speaks to the PC in length about the burden of responsibility and guilt she and other Gold Queens carry as a result of making such decisions. To me, that part felt genuine.

 

[MESeele]

*The maturity of Myr doesn't progress anywhere near quick enough for this to be a thing.

*The draft system is described as something new for the Republic and something they had to resort to. They kept loosing soldiers, so they had no other way but to use more fresh recruits if they wanted to prolong their free existence. 

*Queen Irellia speaks to the PC in length about the burden of responsibility and guilt she and other Gold Queens carry as a result of making such decision. To me, that part felt genuine.

People in power can wax poetic about lost lives all they like, that doesn't stop them from playing chess with and/or devaluing them. The queens mentioned being considered gods before the spacefarers popped their bubble; this does not speak well for how they saw their people. I also got the same impression as crushogre, in that that they could easily replenish their troops. I felt as if their outrage was more that they could not do so quickly enough.

Also, I see this waaay too often: You loose an arrow, you lose pretty much everything else. Given how infrequent the former is, I don't get how so many people can screw this up. Grinds my gears.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Also, I see this waaay too often: You loose an arrow, you lose pretty much everything else. Given how infrequent the former is, I don't get how so many people can screw this up. Grinds my gears.

Sorry about that, it was an input derp of my Virtual keyboard.

Now, for your actual point. I don't remember reading anything about Gold Myr Queens being worshiped as gods in 'modern day' Republic, only that they are revered as rulers and mothers. Regardless, I don't see any reason to doubt Irellia's sincerity. She may simultaneously feel remorse and make seemingly ruthless decisions, based on what she perceives as needs of her people.  

In any case, what other choices did Gold Queens have, outside from magically obtaining military prowess they lacked? We don't know for sure if at any point Federation had been interested in anything but total unconditional surrender, which would have resulted in either a total destruction of Golds' way of life or in a genocide (in case people like Sellera would have been making decisions).

 

[MESeele]

I don't remember reading anything about Gold Myr Queens being worshiped as gods in 'modern day' Republic, only that they are revered as rulers and mothers.

Now you have me doubting myself. Alas, all my saves are past that point. When first meeting the queens, one is exceedingly bitchy. After calling her on it, her peer excuses her behavior by mentioning their popped bubble by the space people, citing their position's fall from their assumed 'godly' status to mundane rulers over a pebble in space. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

Still, they don't get around a lot, and about the only myr they see are those serving them in those rooms. I can't see the queens honestly valuing them more than pieces on a board during the war. Especially when they literally see their children as a number that dictates how much political power they wield. Can they really value each life when their purpose before the war was "pop out kids, get authority".

 

[Couch]

To be a good general you must avoid seeing your soldiers as anything more than pieces on a board, at least when it comes time to give orders.  If you can't separate yourself from the knowledge that they are people who will die even if your plan is designed to minimize casualties, you can't do what you have to do in order to win.  It's the same way doctors seem to be callous when you hear them talk: you can't do what they need to do to save lives and still be attached to every life.  You'll be destroyed.  That's not to say the queens are good generals, they're probably not, but not being emotionally affected when infantry die is part of being a commander, especially in trench warfare.

And while they're much less open about it, the reds still move as many fertile myr as possible to office jobs to keep them away from harm, and office jobs are what get promoted to generals.  They're not queens in name, but being fertile gives you a hefty boost to your likelihood of having authority.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

And while they're much less open about it, the reds still move as many fertile myr as possible to office jobs to keep them away from harm, and office jobs are what get promoted to generals.  They're not queens in name, but being fertile gives you a hefty boost to your likelihood of having authority.

Actually, if you look at the high-ranking Red officers we know about, only one of them (Nezhara's mom) is fertile, and all of them received promotions based on their front-line exploits. Fertile Myr are treated as a valuable asset, but they don't have any significant amount of authority. They do however form Federation's bureaucracy, so they have some power.

 

[JimThermic]

> Gold queens are authoritarian gods.

Except they're less free than any of the civilians, basically glorified broodmares. When you're allowed to do nothing other than sit on your ass and pump out babies, self-aggrandizement seems like a pretty minor fault. As opposed to, you know, venom slaves.

 

[Woider]

> Gold queens are authoritarian gods.

Except they're less free than any of the civilians, basically glorified broodmares. When you're allowed to do nothing other than sit on your ass and pump out babies, self-aggrandizement seems like a pretty minor fault. As opposed to, you know, venom slaves.

Something something Gilded Cage. Heh, Gilded Cage/Gilden Republic. Oh, the symbolism.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

> Gold queens are authoritarian gods.

Except they're less free than any of the civilians, basically glorified broodmares. When you're allowed to do nothing other than sit on your ass and pump out babies, self-aggrandizement seems like a pretty minor fault. As opposed to, you know, venom slaves.

Pumping out babies and ruling the nation, plus having a lot of positive reinforcement in the process. Doesn't seem like too bad a deal.

There are plenty of examples both IRL and in fiction of ruling elite being heavily restricted in some ways, yet still managing authoritarian or even totalitarian rule just fine. In any case, Gold Queen proved themselves to be adequate rulers in all aspects but one. 

 

[MESeele]

Good points all around. You guys are making it harder and harder to dislike the golden buggers with any valid reason. About all I have left is 2bigbreasted4me, which doesn't carry much weight. Well, I guess it does literally.

I can't dislike the Reds either though. Venom juice seems to be the main point against them. But that's a part of them. It's like all of the other animals of Earth declaring opposable thumbs unfair and demanding we not use them. But we evolved into them, why can't we use what we have? It may not have the same effect as venom on others, but it did help lead to our dominance over them all the same.

 

[Woider]

Good points all around. You guys are making it harder and harder to dislike the golden buggers with any valid reason. About all I have left is 2bigbreasted4me, which doesn't carry much weight. Well, I guess it does literally.

I can't dislike the Reds either though. Venom juice seems to be the main point against them. But that's a part of them. It's like all of the other animals of Earth declaring opposable thumbs unfair and demanding we not use them. But we evolved into them, why can't we use what we have? It may not have the same effect as venom on others, but it did help lead to our dominance over them all the same.

I don't think it's a question of dominance, mate. It's the chemical dependency it perpetuates.

 

[Savin]

> Gold queens are authoritarian gods.

Except they're less free than any of the civilians, basically glorified broodmares. When you're allowed to do nothing other than sit on your ass and pump out babies, self-aggrandizement seems like a pretty minor fault. As opposed to, you know, venom slaves.

Except they ARE allowed to do other things -- who's going to stop them? Fen and I were actually batting around the idea of a War Queen a while ago: a towering, beefcake Gold queen using tank treads as a bra and toting heavy machine-guns around as she led her Republic Commandos around on last-ditch missions to save her people. 

Maybe she'll show up as part of a quest sometime down the line, who knows.

 

[Ormael]

Except they ARE allowed to do other things -- who's going to stop them? Fen and I were actually batting around the idea of a War Queen a while ago: a towering, beefcake Gold queen using tank treads as a bra and toting heavy machine-guns around as she led her Republic Commandos around on last-ditch missions to save her people. 

Maybe she'll show up as part of a quest sometime down the line, who knows.

Damn that idea reminded me the orginal idea for that arachne-gal from FoE. You sure you or Fen not peeked there and somehow got that way inspiration for that War Queen?

Also queen position is afaik by amount of children they have, so well some of them not like are fond of been broodmothers, as much as getting they own position high enough compared to other queen and thus breed like mad (Irellia isn't such type of the queen?).

 

[Savin]

Damn that idea reminded me the orginal idea for that arachne-gal from FoE. You sure you or Fen not peeked there and somehow got that way inspiration for that War Queen?

I have no idea what that is, so no.

 

[EmperorG]

> Gold queens are authoritarian gods.

Except they're less free than any of the civilians, basically glorified broodmares. When you're allowed to do nothing other than sit on your ass and pump out babies, self-aggrandizement seems like a pretty minor fault. As opposed to, you know, venom slaves.

So like actual Ant and Bee Queens then? From what I understand Queens in the insect world /are/ glorified broodmares with authority depending on the species, some Queens have no power, others absolute power. But either way they can't exactly up and leave their birthing chambers unless the hive is lost or a new one is to be built elsewhere.

 

[ShySquare]

So like actual Ant and Bee Queens then? From what I understand Queens in the insect world /are/ glorified broodmares with authority depending on the species, some Queens have no power, others absolute power. But either way they can't exactly up and leave their birthing chambers unless the hive is lost or a new one is to be built elsewhere.

Uhh... I don't know about real life bee queens, but ant queens are the colony's reproductive organs, not its brain. They don't make decisions. They lay eggs, and since the death of a queen means the death of the colony, of course they usually stay hidden in their birthing chambers (even for species who have more than 1 queen per nest). The term queen is very misleading imo.

You can't really compare a species of sentient beings who has developed an atomic program with a species who can barely cultivate mushrooms and "raise" aphids though.

When you're allowed to do nothing other than sit on your ass and pump out babies, self-aggrandizement seems like a pretty minor fault.

Put that way, Gold Queens are a bit like real life members of earth royalty, in the sense that their life isn't really their own, with the media scrutinizing their every move. Except real life royals don't have to pump out an army of babies, only one or two. (god I really hope I didn't offend anyone)

 

[Galgano]

 (god I really hope I didn't offend anyone)

I doubt there are any queens that frequent a porn site. You just said that the media would be scrutinizing them too closely.

 

[EmperorG]

 The term queen is very misleading imo

That's part of my point, to counter the idea of insects having Queen's that are the brains that run things instead of just being baby factories. While important to the survival of the species, people overestimate their level of personal power within the hives, I remember one description of Queens being actually slaves of the hive which sounds apt. A slave in a gilded cage of course, but still a slave.

 

[StarcraftJunkie]

The game has made it pretty clear, over and over again, that the Gold Myr queens hold all of the political power in their society. All of it. There are ones that are lower on the totem pole than others, but there are no non-queen Gold Myr anywhere near the top of the political totem pole.

All of the "gilded cage" nonsense in the game is just propaganda spewed from some of the queens themselves. You don't hear about the general populace talking about how they've held down and forced any queens that step out of line to go back to being broodmares. And this kind of propaganda is a very savvy thing to spread, for the queens. You want your general populace to find you as relatable and sympathetic as possible. The fact that so many people look at this OOC and buy into it, despite the fact that the game hammers you over and over about how queens make every single decision of consequence in their society is just an example of how susceptible people are to propaganda, particularly if it jives with something that people already want to believe ("I like the golds more than the reds, so I'm going to find things that support this viewpoint easier to believe").

 

[Couch]

You also don't hear any golds being unhappy about this state of affairs.  Democracy is not the only viable system of government, although it's a pretty good one for most use cases.  Red society is arguably more democratic, but this does not make it inherently better.  The actual policies and culture practiced by the government matter much more.

 

[Karretch]

I was just thinking on orange hybridity. Considering in real life hybrids not between subspecies make different outcomes based on which is mother and which is father, would orange myr be different depending on parents?

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

You also don't hear any golds being unhappy about this state of affairs.  Democracy is not the only viable system of government, although it's a pretty good one for most use cases.  Red society is arguably more democratic, but this does not make it inherently better.  The actual policies and culture practiced by the government and matter much more.

The Qeens' rule is also sort of kinda like democracy, with whole tribes/communities being represented my their matriarchs based on the percentage of population the community in question constitutes. Red myr's brand of democracy just involves a wider group of individuals, but aren't less restrictive.

 

[Decanter]

The Qeens' rule is also sort of kinda like democracy, with whole tribes/communities being represented my their matriarchs based on the percentage of population the community in question constitutes. Red myr's brand of democracy just involves a wider group of individuals, but aren't less restrictive.

Being able to pick your representatives rather than them having power by birthright is kind of an important difference between aristocracy and representative democracy. ¬¬

 

[argenten]

Being able to pick your representatives rather than them having power by birthright is kind of an important difference between aristocracy and representative democracy. ¬¬

Add to that the fact that power=fertility with golds and nothing else, one doesn't have to have any redeeming features or skills beyond moderate attractiveness and fertility with a Gold queen for her to literally rocket up the ranks as our own Irellia shows us (hope I spelled the name right.)

However, Couch brings up an  equally valid point that not all societies will use the same system of governance equally or effectively. It's more so for aliens races in that regard. As far as I've seen, the Gold queens seem to be fairly Laissez faire when it comes to how the rest of their "children" live for the most part. 

I'd also like to point out/suggest something that may or may not cause a furor; The Golds have their own version of chemical dependency or the capacity for such to be abused with their royal jelly. Where the Reds have the aphrodisiac venom, the Gold have the hyper honey that boosts the energy of any who drink it. Considering how rare it is (in the sense of procuring it) and how hard one must work to get it, it's obviously not as bad as the Red venom in terms of ease of abuse. But there are many cases of people abusing caffeine, or more serious drugs to get them through and I can see the royal honey reaching that point if the Queens thought that the benefits of having their scientists or soldiers hopped up on it were worth enough. 

 

[StarcraftJunkie]

Add to that the fact that power=fertility with golds and nothing else, one doesn't have to have any redeeming features or skills beyond moderate attractiveness and fertility with a Gold queen for her to literally rocket up the ranks as our own Irellia shows us (hope I spelled the name right.)

However, Couch brings up an  equally valid point that not all societies will use the same system of governance equally or effectively. It's more so for aliens races in that regard. As far as I've seen, the Gold queens seem to be fairly Laissez faire when it comes to how the rest of their "children" live for the most part. 

I'd also like to point out/suggest something that may or may not cause a furor; The Golds have their own version of chemical dependency or the capacity for such to be abused with their royal jelly. Where the Reds have the aphrodisiac venom, the Gold have the hyper honey that boosts the energy of any who drink it. Considering how rare it is (in the sense of procuring it) and how hard one must work to get it, it's obviously not as bad as the Red venom in terms of ease of abuse. But there are many cases of people abusing caffeine, or more serious drugs to get them through and I can see the royal honey reaching that point if the Queens thought that the benefits of having their scientists or soldiers hopped up on it were worth enough. 

I would argue that simply seeing a small section of one of their cities, and primarily interacting only with one queen (though you see at least one that looks like she'd definitely be a tyrant with her power), is not a good measurement of how the queens govern or treat the average citizen. After all, all the gold myr in the section you can visit are likely under instructions to put their best face forward for dealing with this alien superpower that they're begging for help.

If this is to resemble how things generally are in reality, it's likely that the state of governance with the gold myr is somewhere between what the queens claim it is (almost 100% benevolent with few to no abuses, and those that happen get rectified quickly) and what the red myr claim it is (a bunch of tyrants that stomp on their people on a regular basis).

Since the game hasn't really described any sort of checks and balances for the queens in gold myr society, I'm leaning towards believing that it's closer to what the red myr claim it is than what the gold myr queens claim it is. After all, apparently the only checks on the queens are their subjects revolting from too much mistreatment (which our species has demonstrated is often an inadequate means of checking power) or a more powerful queen or conglomerate of queens deciding to put a stop to any wrongdoings of a particular queen out of the goodness of her/their heart/s. So basically, it just relies on the most powerful queens being benevolent and good-hearted enough to make sure the rest don't become monsters. While it's possible that their race just has that much of a leaning towards goodness, I find it unlikely, especially since they resorted to chemical warfare and the like, and have done their fair share of demonizing their enemies.

 

[JimThermic]

Spoiler

You ask, “What’s it like?”

    Irellia tilts her head, unsure. “What’s what like? I’m not a psychic, you know.”

    “You know...” you say while wildly gesticulating, “...being a queen! Ruler of your people! Worshippedr like a god and all that.”

    The gold myr leans back, smiling. “No one has ever asked me that before. Not even Lyralla when I was explaining her assignment to her. She’s quite the inquisitive woman, I’ll have you know.” An attendant brings her water in an intricately gilded crystal goblet. Irellia sips it slowly, thinking on your question.

When she speaks, her voice is quiet, almost a whisper. “It is an honor... that’s what I believed back in my thollum, anyway. All the girls wanted to be the one who would grow up and turn out to be a queen - to be a secret princess who would have their every need catered to, pampered by servants at all hours of the day.” A dry laugh follows. “I wonder if my sisters still believe that nonsense.”

    You look at her curiously. “Nonsense?”
    “Indeed. When you’re young, all you see is the glitz and the glamor. You don’t see the responsibilities, the thousands of people counting on you, the expectation that you’ll pop out the army of kids you need to produce just to keep your species from dying out.” She gestures at her swollen abdomen as an egg slides out into a waiting attendant’s arms. “You don’t realize that you’ll have to make decisions that could ruin your daughters’ lives, and the only reason you’re even making them is because you happened to wind up with a quartet of working ovaries.”

    You nod understandingly.

    Queen Irellia sighs. “Being a queen is like carrying around a three-hundred pound weight in between sessions of being fucked sore. It’s dealing with stress that you were never prepared or trained for. It’s knowing that you have to send hundreds of your own offspring to certain death against an implacable foe who wants to grind your entire way of life beneath her boot.” She sighs. “You want to know what being a queen is like? It’s like going to the spa for a massage every day after being tortured and choosing how your children will die.”

    An awkward silence fills the chamber, broken only be the sounds of Irellia’s servants taking away her emptied goblet.

    The royal myr gives you a wan smile. “I did not mean to bury you under my burdens. They are mine to bear - someone has to, after all. Was there something else you had interest in? Perhaps something lighter? Joy is in such short supply these days.”

 

[Couch]

I would argue that simply seeing a small section of one of their cities

Of their city.  Singular.