Fair warning about Shade? (Spoilers ahoy!)

Status
Not open for further replies.

flying_moustache

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2015
247
246
Im not into incest but I think Shades situation was handled very well.

Even if you absolutely despise incest and stumbled into her scene the only thing you REALLY sexed was her tail, which is not an acutal part of her body and thus doesnt count in my eyes. (I was suspicious when I realized that upon choosing my scene variant but was still surprised at the reveal. Well done, Savin!)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

NEET-Hime

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
379
9
The whole point of these games is to be promiscuous, the combat is merely a means to an end regarding that. You can play the entire game as a virgin, but there's no real point into doing that and kind of defies the point of the game.

I like to see some one try to play this game and maintain their virginity, sound like lunatic mode.
 

VantagePoint

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2015
159
21
Im not into incest but I think Shades situation was handled very well.

Even if you absolutely despise incest and stumbled into her scene the only thing you REALLY sexed was her tail, which is not an acutal part of her body and thus doesnt count in my eyes. (I was suspicious when I realized that upon choosing my scene variant but was still surprised at the reveal. Well done, Savin!)

Well... the cunt tail basically acts as another Vagina, and if you were paying attention those things meld into your body and become a part of you. And the problem is less with having children and more with the taboo nature associated with incest. Unless you have generations of it, there's minimal risk of bad things happening to the child and things like women having children at too old an age are more dangerous to the child.

Incest doesn't have to involve penetration, eating out your sister for example, is incest. 

I like to see some one try to play this game and maintain their virginity, sound like lunatic mode.

Well if you're talking about Fire Emblem, Lunatic Mode on the games that have it (New Mystery of the Emblem and Awakening)  isn't really hard. 

I can't speak for Fates.

I'm kind of veering off topic here, lol.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

flying_moustache

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2015
247
246
Well... the cunt tail basically acts as another Vagina, and if you were paying attention those things meld into your body and becomes a part of you. And the problem is less with having children and more with the taboo nature associated with incest. Unless you have generations of it, there's minimal risk of bad things happening to the child and things like women having children at too old an age is more dangerous to the child.

They attach to your body and nervous system, they take on your skin colour best as they can, but I would not say they actually become your body. They always keep a mind of their own of some sort, Shades tail especially so. Your right hand, for example, doesnt decide to rape you if left alone for too long.

But opinions.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

VantagePoint

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2015
159
21
They attach to your body and nervous system, they take on your skin colour best as they can, but I would not say they actually become your body. They always keep a mind of their own of some sort, Shades tail especially so.

But opinions.

Well, Shade does feel everything the Cunt Tail is feeling...

And yeah I guess so man.
 

Jacques00

Administrator
Moderator
Aug 26, 2015
4,848
1,156
Steph has now entered... the Doc Badger Zone. Where a controversial project is neither dead nor alive, suspended in indefinite animation, because killing it or letting it live are both unpalatable options. It's also where Sera lives. 

EDIT: And Bess used to live, until Gedan liberated her from the space-time lock. But he ended up all Dalek Caan for that.
I think it's a matter of priority more than anything, really. You can assume all you like that it's some kind of inaction to spite the complainers, but in actuality, I'm sure it's more about:

"Hey, this stuff is finally coded. It functions properly and in sequence as it should. There are no outstanding bugs with this as it stands and I kinda like the content presented so far. Yea, it's pretty much done here and I'm at least marginally proud of what I've accomplished. Wait--what's this? A rewrite with no additional follow-up content to support it yet? Well, while this drastically changes the interaction with this content, I guess I'll put it on the to-do list... After I finish the buttloads of other work on the to-do list and/or progress the game's development forward to be on a reasonable schedule for the game's content growth."

So with that in mind, it paints a different perspective on the matter. If it ain't broke, don't fix it--but if people want it to be fixed to meet their needs... fix it later, I guess?

This is a game with regular after combat rape. I would think that if we were going to bend over backwards to protect players' feelings from unwanted fetishes, that would have been where we'd have started.

Like I mentioned before, some people are finicky about what they want to complain about... Especially if a fetish displayed is not one that lines up on their list of kinks. Wild post-combat rape? That's completely fine. Incest with bastardized siblings? Totally A-Okay. Forced bimbofication? Whoa, hold the phone. My character has no agency in this situation, we need to fix this right up. I will overlook the quality of the content and any attempts at a forewarning to demand a rewrite! (Of course, I'm over-dramatizing it for effect, but the reactions that actually played out was not out of line with this hyperbole).

I am probably going to get a banned for this or at liest a warning probably but here goes anyway.

You'll probably have to try a little harder than that if you want to get banned!

I played the distract-Shade thing recently - which leads directly into fucking her - and it's not even broadly hinted at.

I also think it'd be a shame to meddle with much, because it's quite a good scene overall.
Indeed, I don't think it should be touched with either since it was well done. And it's this exact scene/choice route that I find blind-sighting for those who don't favor incest content in their play through. There's no option to avoid the sex if the character decides to choose this route (Actually, you can refuse to do her with a "Sorry, No").

If any change were to be adequate for the "Sure" choice, maybe an alternate followup option that leads to a few paragraphs talking about going to her ship with the promise of sexy time (to allow Kara to escape), then getting into dialogue about wanting to know more about the cunt-snaked cat-lady (before thinking about engaging in the rompfest) to avoid the sex if possible (similar to the double layer warning of ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO BE A HERO?! to make sure the player is serious business). Shade'll probably be discouraged that the sex was not had and that Steele wasted her time and will probably demand Steele owe her at some point for the loss. This will still allow Shade to be on friendly terms with Steele, though Steele will be in debt to her, and the sister continuity will still be intact. But definitely don't do an entire rewrite with hints and all that.

And the problem is less with having children and more with the taboo nature associated with incest. Unless you have generations of it, there's minimal risk of bad things happening to the child and things like women having children at too old an age is more dangerous to the child.

Incest doesn't have to involve penetration, eating out your sister for example, is incest. 
Get your reality out of my fantasy! Gah!

But seriously, real talk. This is a fantasy-themed game based on sexual fetishes. A player will inevitably run into a kink that will not rub them right in a particular way. This is especially more true the greater the player's persnickety level is. It is impossible to gauge and account for every player's nuances, but it is possible to try to please as many of the target player base as possible. This target player base is broad in terms of taste. For every disliked fetish, there will be ten others the player will most likely approve of, it's just to what degree they will hate that disliked content. Will they treat it as a bad choice, learn from it and silently move on... or will they create a forum topic to vent about their frustration on the issue because it affects them personally... or will they search out a forum topic that will confirm their already set biases and try to add fuel to a fire to help light the torches of the next lynch mob? (Again, another hyperbole, but you get the point... hopefully.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

VantagePoint

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2015
159
21
Get your reality out of my fantasy! Gah!

But seriously, real talk. This is a fantasy-themed game based on sexual fetishes. A player will inevitably run into a kink that will not rub them right in a particular way. This is especially more true the greater the player's persnickety level is. It is impossible to gauge and account for every player's nuances, but it is possible to try to please as many of the target player base as possible. This target player base is broad in terms of taste. For every disliked fetish, there will be ten others the player will most likely approve of, it's just to what degree they will hate that disliked content. Will they treat it as a bad choice, learn from it and silently move on... or will they create a forum topic to vent about their frustration on the issue because it affects them personally... or will they search out a forum topic that will confirm their already set biases and try to add fuel to a fire to help light the torches of the next lynch mob? (Again, another hyperbole, but you get the point... hopefully.)
I guess I get it, but I prefer addressing the elephant in the room rather than pretend it doesn't exist.

But that's just me.

So much save scumming is involved but on the old forums someone did it and kept a small log of it.

Not really a whole lot. You may need to save scum a bit after the beginning, but once you get the ball rolling with your character, it gets going really fucking fast.
 

Couch

Scientist
Creator
Aug 26, 2015
1,621
917
As I recall it was both no sex and no masturbation.  Staying virginal is easy as long as you're furiously jerking off every few hours, insert joke here.  Going without means you're running most of the game at 75 Lust.
 

Savin

Master Analmander
Staff member
Aug 26, 2015
6,102
9,803
The mod is not about negating Fen & co's work. rather, it expands on it trying to stay close to canon (sort of). CoC 2 will be a different thing altogether if/when Savin feels like/can do it.

Less when *I* feel like doing it (which is like a year ago) and more "When Fen gets his fat butt out the way."
 

VantagePoint

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2015
159
21
As I recall it was both no sex and no masturbation.  Staying virginal is easy as long as you're furiously jerking off every few hours, insert joke here.  Going without means you're running most of the game at 75 Lust.

Wait, no masturbation?

...Holy shit.
 

Beanjam

Member
Aug 28, 2015
5
0
Like I mentioned before, some people are finicky about what they want to complain about... Especially if a fetish displayed is not one that lines up on their list of kinks. Wild post-combat rape? That's completely fine. Incest with bastardized siblings? Totally A-Okay. Forced bimbofication? Whoa, hold the phone. My character has no agency in this situation, we need to fix this right up. I will overlook the quality of the content and any attempts at a forewarning to demand a rewrite! (Of course, I'm over-dramatizing it for effect, but the reactions that actually played out was not out of line with this hyperbole).

To be fair, bimbofication could make the game literally unplayable in CoC. It's not that bad in TiTS (yet), but libido/minimum lust and the associated perks can still make the game not very fun to play. I mean, I get that it's supposed to be a punishment, but there's a difference between punishing the character and punishing the player. While I'm sure Cap'n Steele's having a grand old time with their fuckbuddy/hand every 2 minutes, I'm not really enjoying clicking through the same scenes over and over again.
 

JDeko

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
1,708
457
Kekistan
www.facebook.com
Steph has now entered... the Doc Badger Zone. Where a controversial project is neither dead nor alive, suspended in indefinite animation, because killing it or letting it live are both unpalatable options. It's also where Sera lives. 

EDIT: And Bess used to live, until Gedan liberated her from the space-time lock. But he ended up all Dalek Caan for that.
That reference made me so happy
 

Alexa

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2015
258
32
More or less the whole problem is the PC getting forced into things. (without being fully aware of being forced into it or the possibility of being forced into it)

Generally you see your PC getting raped and such anyways, I mean this is a fantasy game. Players might want to pick and choose their fetishes to an extent, though, that's what TFs are there to accomplish (for the most part), as well different sex scenes and content diversity (You've got everything from a sexable demoness with some sex scenes to a full blown relationship with a synthetic). Players don't seem to like it when they get a fetish they don't like shoved on them. There hasn't really been any outcry about the whole Shade incest thing (that I know of), just the prediction of it, but the potential is certainly there. Though, like Savin said, you generally don't need to stick your dick in everything with an opening big enough. Then there's reloading your game so you can back up. There's not a lot that you can't avoid by simply reloading and trying a different approach. JimT says this is lazy of the developers, and to an extent, it is, but it's also the fault of the player for being so damn picky. There's a clear text on the main menu of TiTS warning you of its many exotic and strange fetishes. VantagePoint brings up a good point by saying that the PC could possibly learn about Shade being related without sexing her, but the content's already written and in place, so it's unlikely that it'll be rewritten just to spare someone's feelings. One of the things he seems to be pushing for, however, are some rules pertaining to how content be structured in a way that prevents the forcing on fetishes on the PC, to prevent the kind of outcry like the kind  that supposedly happened (I wasn't there) when Dr.Badger was introduced. 

That was an unformatted mess, yes, so bear with me.

I'm also interested in knowing who was actually against the whole surprise with Shade being your sister? I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned being upset with it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

VantagePoint

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2015
159
21
Then their really not going to like my Samantha character.

Oh lawd... now I'm curious...

More or less the whole problem is the PC getting forced into things.

Generally you see your PC getting raped and such anyways, I mean this is a fantasy game. Players might want to pick and choose their fetishes to an extent, though, that's what TFs are there to accomplish (for the most part), as well different sex scenes and content diversity (You've got everything from a sexable demoness with some sex scenes to a full blown relationship with a synthetic). Players don't seem to like it when they get a fetish they don't like shoved on them. There hasn't really been any outcry about the whole Shade incest thing (that I know of), just the prediction of it, but the potential is certainly there. Though, like Savin said, you generally don't need to stick your dick in everything with an opening big enough. Then there's reloading your game so you can back up. There's not a lot that you can't avoid by simply reloading and trying a different approach. JimT says this is lazy of the developers, and to an extent, it is, but it's also the fault of the player for being so damn picky. There's a clear text on the main menu of TiTS warning you of its many exotic and strange fetishes. VantagePoint brings up a good point by saying that the PC could possibly learn about Shade being related without sexing her, but the content's already written and in place, so it's unlikely that it'll be rewritten just to spare someone's feelings. One of the things he seems to be pushing for, however, are some rules pertaining to how content be structured in a way that prevents the forcing on fetishes on the PC, to prevent the kind of outcry like the kind  that supposedly happened (I wasn't there) when Dr.Badger was introduced. 

That was an unformatted mess, yes, so bear with me.

I'm also interested in knowing who was actually against the whole surprise with Shade being your sister? I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned being upset with it.

Pretty much, this thread is just future damage control at this point. What's done is done, I'm just trying to prevent this kind of thing from happening again in the future.

Shade is a different case because people will probably go through her sex scenes without knowing they're related, so reloading doesn't really fix the problem, they were already exposed to the content.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Savin

Master Analmander
Staff member
Aug 26, 2015
6,102
9,803
Pretty much, this thread is just future damage control at this point. What's done is done, I'm just trying to prevent this kind of thing from happening again in the future.

Shade is a different case because people will probably go through her sex scenes without knowing they're related, so reloading doesn't really fix the problem, they were already exposed to the content.

Nah, it'll totally happen in the future. 
 

Jacques00

Administrator
Moderator
Aug 26, 2015
4,848
1,156
To be fair, bimbofication could make the game literally unplayable in CoC. It's not that bad in TiTS (yet), but libido/minimum lust and the associated perks can still make the game not very fun to play. I mean, I get that it's supposed to be a punishment, but there's a difference between punishing the character and punishing the player. While I'm sure Cap'n Steele's having a grand old time with their fuckbuddy/hand every 2 minutes, I'm not really enjoying clicking through the same scenes over and over again.

Well, "fun" is a really subjective term, but I do understand what you're getting at. The player and character dichotomy is something that varies from player to player in that some players will like to jump in and play just for fun and experimentation, other players want to roleplay as an alternate personality (with varying levels of how in-character they want to be), and some players just self-project themselves onto the character. No matter how one plays, every player will probably end up with a different experience (with their own set of likes and complaints), so chances are one will have a different opinion of their experience than another. In effect, my viewpoints might not exactly line up with another player's viewpoint, and I'm okay with that.

As for the bimbofication itself, it's just an example that is brought up often and with some legitimate concerns, some of those I agree with--but like you exemplified with the combat rape (which can happen both voluntarily and forcefully, especially if the player character loses to the enemy), it's just an issue that has a bias slant to it. I think the players complaining were more peeved about how the bimbo properties were gained rather than if they existed in the game (to which there are mixed responses for--some like it, some don't, and some indifferent), but bimbofication was more often than not used as a scapegoat to blame why the forceful nature was bad (conveniently omitting forceful rapes which could be equally as bad, if not worse, but again, it's to confirm an established bias so details like that don't matter). Even though it's only a vocal minority that want such scenes to change based on certain standards, they don't quite apply the same standards to everything else in the game--making such arguments fall short in consistency.

Mechanically speaking though, a character becoming a bimbo/bro only has a very minor and mostly superficial impact on the game and adds another layer of diversity into gameplay--about as much as the character's personality level, more or less, so I don't see it as potentially game-crippling. The player's chosen occupation/class makes a much larger impact, but it's mostly concentrated on combat compared to the rest of gameplay and the classes get retweaks from time to time as the game runs pretty heavily on it (aside from the sex-related content).
 

VantagePoint

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2015
159
21
Nah, it'll totally happen in the future. 

Welp, I tried.

Thanks for reading the thread though, I appreciate it. I imagine Shade isn't going to be the only bastard child?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Alexa

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2015
258
32
Nah, it'll totally happen in the future. 

Welp, I tried.

Thanks for reading the thread though, I appreciate it. I imagine Shade isn't going to be the only bastard child?

There was really no right answer in this situation, I would think. Could have gone either route in terms of how content is done and there'd still be problems. 

Savin, the rest of the team, and content creators all put a lot of effort into the game, and as the player I guess one could just take it or leave it. There's no reason to try and keep yer looking balls pure when you're playing a fantasy/fetish game. I didn't really mind the Shade being your sister bit anyways, and I'm sure a lot of others didn't mind as well. I do understand where you're coming from, but it's a plot element and it's really not against the rules. There's a whole mess of opinions on this, like I mentioned in my previous post.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

VantagePoint

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2015
159
21
There was really no right answer in this situation, I would think. Could have gone either route in terms of how content is done and there'd still be problems. 

Savin, the rest of the team, and content creators all put a lot of effort into the game, and as the player I guess you could just take it or leave it. There's no reason to try and keep yer looking balls pure when you're playing a fantasy/fetish game.

That's true, and that's why I'm not really raising a fuss over his response. It's their game, they put a fuckton of effort into it. I just wanted to bring this topic to light. 

I've already said that the incest doesn't bother me, my problem was strictly with those that it might bother.
 

NEET-Hime

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
379
9
Oh lawd... now I'm curious...

She is far to incomplete to post; shes is in the  first ruff-draft, of a ruff-draft phase. If you look through Uveto web doc you can find a link.
 

Beanjam

Member
Aug 28, 2015
5
0
I've already said that the incest doesn't bother me, my problem was strictly with those that it might bother.

And you don't think that there are other fetishes being forced onto PC that bother people?

I remember a very similar thread in the initial stages of TiTS about someone insisting that there be a fetish filter to prevent people from viewing fetishes that they might not like. He didn't have a problem with any content in particular either, he just wanted to protect players' virgin eyes. I think it took several dozen pages to convince him that such a thing would be impracticable for this sort of game. People really should stop being so "helpful."
 

Couch

Scientist
Creator
Aug 26, 2015
1,621
917
I'm also interested in knowing who was actually against the whole surprise with Shade being your sister? I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned being upset with it.

Nobody has actually expressed a distaste for it, it's purely hypothetical.

With regards to Steph being Treated: it was well known by that time that the Treatment was divisive.  Some people, myself included, find it distasteful.  By that time, however, the heat over it had essentially died down.  The unspoken rules were it stayed on New Texas where you could ignore it if you didn't like it, and it was wholly voluntary; citizens had enormous social and economic pressure to be Treated, but guests are safe.

Steph being Treated started a fire because it broke a lot of those rules.  Someone being Treated without consent is an enormous violation of the player's sense of safety.  Even though there's no way for Steele to be Treated by force in-game, the atmosphere suddenly becomes much more dangerous when a celebrity gets forcibly Treated on galactic TV and nobody seems to notice or care.  On top of that it took the Treatment off New Texas by adding it to a running storyline that previously hadn't involved it, putting it suddenly in the faces of players who previously could comfortably ignore it.

Shade doesn't have either of these issues, largely because you just don't know her well enough yet.  You can't even actually fuck her, or at least I've never seen her let Steele have more than her tail.  She's only got a bit of dialogue and some sex so far, so the incest reveal comes pretty early.  If there were another two planets before that reveal, then there might be some solid reason for complaint, but even so the game's background makes it pretty clear that you might end up meeting more than a few relatives.  The way it's handled now is fine.
 

ham

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2015
76
33
All the good characters will eventually get cut because people find them unethical. 
 

Jacques00

Administrator
Moderator
Aug 26, 2015
4,848
1,156
If you want spoilers in available sex scenes, you can probably check here:

http://wiki.smutosaur.us/Shade#Sex

Even though Steel can't vaginally fuck her, there's still fucking involved. I just double-checked and fortunately there are options to refuse if Shade's advancing on Steele, so it's not an inevitable thing. I think the Shade content is fine for now, with or without any foreshadowing.
The Steph incident in where it broke the established lore and caused more complications was one of the reasons I agreed with, though I did think it might have been more creative to have kept it canon and try to build around it with supplemental events, like someone suggesting the U.G.C. arresting the assailant, Steph running into brain aliens to regain her intelligence while doing another/a final episode, and/or even something as simple as have Steph actually undergo the effects of an injected form of the temporary Treatment (an alternate variant of the stuff Millie has available) + Bovinium combo were the Faux Treatment effects would have worn off after some time. Instead, a Bovinium rewrite was done and still pending. Either way, I don't think Steph content will be revisited until after some time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.