Should've known that would be the case. I'm still trying to come up with some Bear-Morph TF, stuff. So I'll see how that goes before I try even thinking of a mini-dungeon.
Your gripes with CoC II
- Thread starter Narmlet
- Start date
- Status
I believe the lack of companion TF's is due to the difficulty that comes with coding/writing them. Not the transformation scenes themselves but all the extra parts afterwards. The biggest example that I see cited pretty often is Rin, due to her confidence/submission score on top of having access to breast and booty TF items. Multiple transformations means that a writer has to go over one scene multiple times to make sure that all the different possible transformation combinations are planned and accounted for. The bigger the game gets the more work that one character becomes as you need to continue to add in all their variations to every scene they participate in. So while I agree that I'd love to see more descriptive scenes of our companions undergoing a transformation I can also understand why they probably just won't happen.
I also wanna add that my favorite transformation scene is giving Rin purple eggs. I think her reaction to suddenly being THICCC is hilarious.
TLDR: I got a lot issues with CoC2 some of them opinionated, others technical, and some I think are just straight up gameplay design flaws but I think it does a lot good in the narrative gameplay space. Since its nowhere near finished I think if these are highlighted I think this game would be all the better for it.
First I'll start of with the positives; I really like the fact the appearance of the PC is given a semi-concrete look that is customizable and acknowledged to a certain extent, the erotica on display is horny and varied asf (speacial shutout to SkoW, B, Savin, and Observer, they don't miss). The context sensitive nature of companion dialog is a treat and its nice to discover and its a habit of mine to save at times where I think are major events to replay it with other comps just to see who says what, there's a nice combinations of quest types some even having 4 or 5 variations on how things playout (whoever or the ppl that designed the Spectres of the Wyld, the mission that intros Hethia, The Cowgirl mission at the outskirts of Khor'minos and Convocation of Mirrors; I just have to say y'all are going places, well funking done), descriptions of moves during combat tend to be hit or miss but they are nice and the context sensitive items that give comments during combat are a nice touch. The overall artstyle of the game feels consolidated because there aren't 20 different artist with 20 different styles of drawing to mucking up the aesthetic so the game gets to develop this sense of a cohesive artstyle even though you can tell the differences in "penmanship" and skill level between the few.
Now for the Cons: 1. Grammar Errors and Redundancies are abundant and flourishing, I do not envy the Editor if there even is one, I'd recommend for the writers to dl Grammarly, I personally use it for projects, texting, and work emails so maybe it can help them too.
2. The writers need to come to consensus on whether they want to give us a character with established traits and personality or a blank salute for us to mold using actual roleplay (if I see someone reply to me about imagination, I'm going to tell you to imagine yourself not being up your own bum so you talk less shite) because the character's personality changes from writer to writer drastically even if the content that you swing for is in the same ballpark, because of this the PC becomes a blob being everything all at once while being nothing at all for the player. (very similiar to the protag of P4 or Dragon Born of Skyrim)
3. Combat is boring most of the time and the difficulty just sliding damage modifiers isn't enticing either, tho I'm told that there is another difficulty being considered and I hope the neglected resource management portion of the gameplay loop comes into focus for this difficulty. If the game designer does go this route Darkest dungeon and its mod scene are the best sources for inspiration on how inventory and resource management can be used to create difficulty for a game based around tile movement.
Opinions: Player agency is something that should observed and taken into when writing scenarios/scenes, for every scene that takes into account the players stat for roleplaying purposes there are several others that force the player to agree to something regardless of how they'd feel (looking at Kiyoko's content <_<) or change their personality to fit the scene or fetish. If anything I'd say that the game needs more options that are not just subtle stat checks but are solid decisions similar to choosing what positions and what body part to touch that take into account the origin of the player (those are used in a way that is way too niche to be important) that isn't just flavor text and perks are absolutely neglected when they would be perfect for writing smutty scenes e.g. Cum cascade and Messy Organism are begging to be written into the 69 sex scenes for never-ending ouroboros shenanigans'. (SkoW is a saint for even giving the player options) I'm saying all this because I think there is lot of potential here that could be realized with a few steps. And if anyone doesn't understand at all what I meant in the this massive paragraph here's a couple vids that breaks it down even further and in bitesize pieces:
and should you need more info or you're just an game design-info goblin like myself check out GMTK for more information and techniques.
Gameplay needs a shot in the arm; its really boring seeing the text saying the player and comps swing everything not sure how hard it is to code lines specific for specific weapons but it would definitely lively up the combat that my character doesn't just swing his spear but thrusts it the exposed flank of his foes or Slashes his sword across his foe and vice versa for the enemies. Another thing I'd like to ask of the head gameplay director/designer (I think their name is Hilde) is if the environment can be factored into combat? Whether it be by simple buff like classic Fire Emblem or you could do a deep dive in a way similar to other games ( an example is a romhack for Pokémon that bring locations in account, here's' a link should you or anyone be interested https://pokemon-reborn.fandom.com/wiki/Field_Effects)
First I'll start of with the positives; I really like the fact the appearance of the PC is given a semi-concrete look that is customizable and acknowledged to a certain extent, the erotica on display is horny and varied asf (speacial shutout to SkoW, B, Savin, and Observer, they don't miss). The context sensitive nature of companion dialog is a treat and its nice to discover and its a habit of mine to save at times where I think are major events to replay it with other comps just to see who says what, there's a nice combinations of quest types some even having 4 or 5 variations on how things playout (whoever or the ppl that designed the Spectres of the Wyld, the mission that intros Hethia, The Cowgirl mission at the outskirts of Khor'minos and Convocation of Mirrors; I just have to say y'all are going places, well funking done), descriptions of moves during combat tend to be hit or miss but they are nice and the context sensitive items that give comments during combat are a nice touch. The overall artstyle of the game feels consolidated because there aren't 20 different artist with 20 different styles of drawing to mucking up the aesthetic so the game gets to develop this sense of a cohesive artstyle even though you can tell the differences in "penmanship" and skill level between the few.
Now for the Cons: 1. Grammar Errors and Redundancies are abundant and flourishing, I do not envy the Editor if there even is one, I'd recommend for the writers to dl Grammarly, I personally use it for projects, texting, and work emails so maybe it can help them too.
2. The writers need to come to consensus on whether they want to give us a character with established traits and personality or a blank salute for us to mold using actual roleplay (if I see someone reply to me about imagination, I'm going to tell you to imagine yourself not being up your own bum so you talk less shite) because the character's personality changes from writer to writer drastically even if the content that you swing for is in the same ballpark, because of this the PC becomes a blob being everything all at once while being nothing at all for the player. (very similiar to the protag of P4 or Dragon Born of Skyrim)
3. Combat is boring most of the time and the difficulty just sliding damage modifiers isn't enticing either, tho I'm told that there is another difficulty being considered and I hope the neglected resource management portion of the gameplay loop comes into focus for this difficulty. If the game designer does go this route Darkest dungeon and its mod scene are the best sources for inspiration on how inventory and resource management can be used to create difficulty for a game based around tile movement.
Opinions: Player agency is something that should observed and taken into when writing scenarios/scenes, for every scene that takes into account the players stat for roleplaying purposes there are several others that force the player to agree to something regardless of how they'd feel (looking at Kiyoko's content <_<) or change their personality to fit the scene or fetish. If anything I'd say that the game needs more options that are not just subtle stat checks but are solid decisions similar to choosing what positions and what body part to touch that take into account the origin of the player (those are used in a way that is way too niche to be important) that isn't just flavor text and perks are absolutely neglected when they would be perfect for writing smutty scenes e.g. Cum cascade and Messy Organism are begging to be written into the 69 sex scenes for never-ending ouroboros shenanigans'. (SkoW is a saint for even giving the player options) I'm saying all this because I think there is lot of potential here that could be realized with a few steps. And if anyone doesn't understand at all what I meant in the this massive paragraph here's a couple vids that breaks it down even further and in bitesize pieces:
Gameplay needs a shot in the arm; its really boring seeing the text saying the player and comps swing everything not sure how hard it is to code lines specific for specific weapons but it would definitely lively up the combat that my character doesn't just swing his spear but thrusts it the exposed flank of his foes or Slashes his sword across his foe and vice versa for the enemies. Another thing I'd like to ask of the head gameplay director/designer (I think their name is Hilde) is if the environment can be factored into combat? Whether it be by simple buff like classic Fire Emblem or you could do a deep dive in a way similar to other games ( an example is a romhack for Pokémon that bring locations in account, here's' a link should you or anyone be interested https://pokemon-reborn.fandom.com/wiki/Field_Effects)
Not most overrated, worst. An overrated character can still be good. But for me, she's basically DC's Wolverine. A new character introduced some time after the start of the original franchise who was a big hit with the fans, but the suits' efforts to cash in on that popularity brought with it an extended push into both other parts of the franchise and crossover stuff, even if just in a minor role, to bump up sales and in the process a lot of what made them interesting and likeable was lost. I look at DC shoving her into places she arguably doesn't belong just to pump up the mainstream appeal and I groan audibly now. But, moving on.
As has been said, the shared name is coincidental. Though it does remind me of this hilarious image.
Yeah they should give us some magic/enchanted axes. My Orc main is feeling left out.
For a game designed as a direct sequel to the original CoC, it's kind of funny how much salt they apparently still have over fan behaviour and/or characters from back then. But really, this universe's version of Raphael being a jerk is the least of the Kinu sidequest's problems. I wish there weren't so many walls of text in it.
You know that reminds me. Please Savin and co. don't make transformatives you can give to companions so hard to acquire. Purple eggs are not at all cheap or easy to find in bulk, and Shar needing several days to grow 1 egg makes her an inefficient delivery service.
Edit: No, I'm not sorry for posting links to TV Tropes. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
When not just save editing them in, these days when I can't randomly find the purple eggs just doing the regular quests there and maybe one or two Shar eggs, I just wait with the embuttening until after I've taught the foxes their natural place in life (warming my feet that is) and buy all the eggs from Kohaku once they randomly show up there, while getting the other randomly occurring stuff I need from her.
TLDR: Plague of gripes about mechanics and loot.
Back again with a plague of gripes to spill, there are a few technical issues I’d like to point out and a couple of unsolicited opinionated recommendations for game design I’d like to suggest. I understand that money, time, adherence to the development schedule, and just straight-up conflicting ideas might trigger an eye-roll from some, but hear me out, first “technical” issues:
1. This is something I’ve noted with The Observer’s content specifically: I’ve read a lot of books from A Song of Ice n Fire to Lord of the Rings; Lovecraft and various books in his expanded universe to various interactive novels; to official erotic books like Fifty Shades of grey and Anonymous Sex. I have never seen characters answer another characters’ thoughts when lines were used to portray the character thinking and not in a “out-loud” way unless telepathy wasn’t involved. There are a lot of these disrupted dialogues and I know they’re disrupted because the other writers have done similar scenes where the PC thinks to themself then inquires the other character into dialogue.
2. Underutilized and un-incentivized mechanics are an issue. I did not know Taxanomy existed in this game until the Wiki; here should be perks that give you an edge against a specified type and, as a balance, give us some sort of weakness or debuff of some sort. Ashelander dialog options should have an additional benefit other than just smut; mediation removing 1 corruption is a step in the right direction if stingy (it should be an rng roll of 1-3), Cleaning her should give you a buff to either attack power, crit damage & rate, or adds bleed damage to each attack, shafting could give you defensive buffs like getting 30% of fire damage taken as health; porn for porn's sake is masturbation, but if that porn as a function that is tied into another core gameplay element like combat, tile exploration, or roleplaying & narrative, then it's a mechanic. There need to be more perks in the game that also focus on other elements besides dick-length; combat & gameplay is one element and narrative is another. Regardless, they need to be mentioned more and used in scenes, dialogue, and erotica. Perks from Fallout1 and Fallout New Vegas, and quirks from Darkest Dungeon are good examples y'all could use for inspiration.
3. This more of a pet peeve than anything but alternate routes for side quest should be rewarded properly; one good example of great quest design whose rewards were lacking is the Dog Days quest, specifically the point where you talk Hethria down. There is no reward other than a slight variation on the same sex scene; there are no long-term changes in your relationship with each-other, no item unique to that situation, or some permanent stat increases/changes or Perks. Meanwhile, Convocation of Mirrors is what I'd consider perfect, but it's unfinished, as much as I love how emergent Spectre of the Wyld is it suffers from the same issues as Dog Days; it rewards every route with increasing loot and context.
Wishlists: There should be some interplay between DoTs in a mechanical way. I do like that they effect at least two stats at a time but they could be more unique and less dependent on numbers; say if a unit is blighted and bled, they get an initiative penalty, bleed itself should stack; burn is really strong so it should have pros and cons even working against other dots by removing bleeding upon cast but increasing bleed damage taken by a percentage once the burn sticks, having a unit bleeding and burning at the same time should trigger the dots every turn another unit takes a turn. Frigid should stack and upon having 3 stacks should freeze the unit (Pokemon style freeze is perfect for emulation but with crush resistance getting a bigger buff); It's another stun, but it's mechanically driven by turn economy. Dots are mostly ignorable outside the characters like Kiyoko and Vivianne, so giving them a lot more presence and combat depth would make them more interesting and threatening.
Back again with a plague of gripes to spill, there are a few technical issues I’d like to point out and a couple of unsolicited opinionated recommendations for game design I’d like to suggest. I understand that money, time, adherence to the development schedule, and just straight-up conflicting ideas might trigger an eye-roll from some, but hear me out, first “technical” issues:
1. This is something I’ve noted with The Observer’s content specifically: I’ve read a lot of books from A Song of Ice n Fire to Lord of the Rings; Lovecraft and various books in his expanded universe to various interactive novels; to official erotic books like Fifty Shades of grey and Anonymous Sex. I have never seen characters answer another characters’ thoughts when lines were used to portray the character thinking and not in a “out-loud” way unless telepathy wasn’t involved. There are a lot of these disrupted dialogues and I know they’re disrupted because the other writers have done similar scenes where the PC thinks to themself then inquires the other character into dialogue.
2. Underutilized and un-incentivized mechanics are an issue. I did not know Taxanomy existed in this game until the Wiki; here should be perks that give you an edge against a specified type and, as a balance, give us some sort of weakness or debuff of some sort. Ashelander dialog options should have an additional benefit other than just smut; mediation removing 1 corruption is a step in the right direction if stingy (it should be an rng roll of 1-3), Cleaning her should give you a buff to either attack power, crit damage & rate, or adds bleed damage to each attack, shafting could give you defensive buffs like getting 30% of fire damage taken as health; porn for porn's sake is masturbation, but if that porn as a function that is tied into another core gameplay element like combat, tile exploration, or roleplaying & narrative, then it's a mechanic. There need to be more perks in the game that also focus on other elements besides dick-length; combat & gameplay is one element and narrative is another. Regardless, they need to be mentioned more and used in scenes, dialogue, and erotica. Perks from Fallout1 and Fallout New Vegas, and quirks from Darkest Dungeon are good examples y'all could use for inspiration.
3. This more of a pet peeve than anything but alternate routes for side quest should be rewarded properly; one good example of great quest design whose rewards were lacking is the Dog Days quest, specifically the point where you talk Hethria down. There is no reward other than a slight variation on the same sex scene; there are no long-term changes in your relationship with each-other, no item unique to that situation, or some permanent stat increases/changes or Perks. Meanwhile, Convocation of Mirrors is what I'd consider perfect, but it's unfinished, as much as I love how emergent Spectre of the Wyld is it suffers from the same issues as Dog Days; it rewards every route with increasing loot and context.
It even has what I'd call a BloodBorne-insight/Lovecraftian moment where you learn the Gods were all tentacle monsters; which is also immersion breaking when the PC greets the gods like everything thing is good when they know these gods were voidborne soulsuckers. (<_<)
Wishlists: There should be some interplay between DoTs in a mechanical way. I do like that they effect at least two stats at a time but they could be more unique and less dependent on numbers; say if a unit is blighted and bled, they get an initiative penalty, bleed itself should stack; burn is really strong so it should have pros and cons even working against other dots by removing bleeding upon cast but increasing bleed damage taken by a percentage once the burn sticks, having a unit bleeding and burning at the same time should trigger the dots every turn another unit takes a turn. Frigid should stack and upon having 3 stacks should freeze the unit (Pokemon style freeze is perfect for emulation but with crush resistance getting a bigger buff); It's another stun, but it's mechanically driven by turn economy. Dots are mostly ignorable outside the characters like Kiyoko and Vivianne, so giving them a lot more presence and combat depth would make them more interesting and threatening.
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CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
Sorry to pester, but would you mind throwing a spoiler over this bit? I'm sure there's a few people floating around who haven't figured out the big twist yet, don't want to ruin it for them.
And do you remember any scenes specifically where this happens? I typically skim over content written by Observer these days since their writing style is not one I'm particularly fond of, but you've gotten me a bit curious.
As Antler said, people will usually keep this hidden behind spoilers, on account of it being a massive bit of lore.
Aside from that:
They're not really tentacle monsters. Like, originally, they were wraiths, which are "beings of formless entropy," which isn't really a tentacle thing. But even aside from that, that's more of what they were. They, perhaps, technically still are, but they've been given physical form and the ability to feel emotions, and have pretty much fully taken on the persona of the gods they emulated that they think of themselves as those gods. They're not horrible monsters in disguise, and despite their origins, they are, for all practical purposes, no longer wraiths.
These are already accounted for, either with specific Powers (Banishment behaves differently against Ethereal and Construct enemies) or because the elemental weaknesses of particular enemy types are specifically targeted. There's a reason that the Beast Killer bow does Blight damage: It's targeting that taxon's -75 Blight Resist stat.
Repeatable Corruption-reducing mechanisms are designed to be fairly low because it's meant to be easier to gain the stuff than to lose it. It's spelled out right in the game's primary design doc. The big exception is the Cloister and that requires both Winterstem and a whole bunch of in-game time to balance things out.
The game is designed to not have a gear treadmill, so making any weapon that's extremely overpowered (and giving one weapon the ability to grant multiple possible buffs most certainly would be) would either make that weapon game-breakingly powerful or it would require every future encounter to be balanced around it, penalizing players who don't use Ashe. Either way would be an incredible amount of work because one person didn't think a weapon that already is very good, unlocks multiple types of sex scenes and gets special lines on crits isn't Super Speshul enough already.
This sounds like a fascinating idea... for a game where the focus is all on the combat and not on trying to find a nice middle ground between 'Smutty text adventure where you're just selecting options' and 'Fucking end this fight already, I've been stuck fighting these mobs for half an hour!'.
Also, damage over time already has a very significant use: Bypassing shield HP. If you inflict an enemy with Burning, Poisoned or the like, the damage those do is applied directly to health instead of having to work through any shield effect that the enemy has. It doesn't need a dozen edge case combination effects to be useful.
I see what your saying but it's not like the characters themselves have, any real say. The people that use Harley as click bait. Deserve your anger not Harley herself but, still you bring up a good point. "Hey look everyone at this new comic book. With all these characters and if your still not satisfied, we'll throw in Harley Quinn as a bonus. So act now".
But like you said moving on, this a Forum for gripes. With CoC 2 not DC or Marvel so back to that.
CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
Neither are a great many of HP Lovecraft's own horrors, their actual nature is often completely beyond possible comprehension for the three dimensional meat mind, and so with some of them the closest thing the mind can fathom to the real deal is 'squid' I suppose, in the way that it's this convoluted thing reaching out in all directions.
Saying something is tentacly can be a simple way of saying that something is a lovecraftian/eldritch horror, which a formless entropy being from beyond the material universe most definitely would qualify as, even if it's rather lovecraft-lite with how they're written here post god-cosplaying.
Taking on a physical form or not doesn't really change that, Nyarlathotep, perhaps the most prominent of HP's Outer Gods, appears in human guise all the time whilst also being the most comprehensible in thought process at a glance. This does not change the fact that Gnarly is likely a large aspect of the mind of Capital G God, whom themselves is a sleeping storm of nuclear chaos at the center of the cosmos, given will of it's own.
Emotions and meat doesn't disqualify the potential squid, quite a few of big names in HP's mythos displayed both, and even then 3 out of 4 of the Seven you can interact with display extreme issues with empathy and responsibility, as do all Seven when you remember that they're willing to let Kas's schemes play out, which in the most favorably interpreted scenario is them thinking it will help the surviving wraithtouched in the long run, a far smaller group in comparison those they're actively allowing to fall into physical, spiritual and mental torment.
Sorry about ye ol' giant post out of nowhere, I like talking about this sort of stuff.
Saying something is tentacly can be a simple way of saying that something is a lovecraftian/eldritch horror, which a formless entropy being from beyond the material universe most definitely would qualify as, even if it's rather lovecraft-lite with how they're written here post god-cosplaying.
Taking on a physical form or not doesn't really change that, Nyarlathotep, perhaps the most prominent of HP's Outer Gods, appears in human guise all the time whilst also being the most comprehensible in thought process at a glance. This does not change the fact that Gnarly is likely a large aspect of the mind of Capital G God, whom themselves is a sleeping storm of nuclear chaos at the center of the cosmos, given will of it's own.
Emotions and meat doesn't disqualify the potential squid, quite a few of big names in HP's mythos displayed both, and even then 3 out of 4 of the Seven you can interact with display extreme issues with empathy and responsibility, as do all Seven when you remember that they're willing to let Kas's schemes play out, which in the most favorably interpreted scenario is them thinking it will help the surviving wraithtouched in the long run, a far smaller group in comparison those they're actively allowing to fall into physical, spiritual and mental torment.
Sorry about ye ol' giant post out of nowhere, I like talking about this sort of stuff.
Nah, it's good. I noticed this with their early game content but it becomes less prominent the further you get in the game; I can only assume it's only because they were relatively fresh at writing a story and are getting better. A good example of many is:
She really does have a lovely body while in this form... you can't wait to see what it's like when you're wringing every last drop of cum out of it.
Kas grins wickedly. "Well, get started already. We'll see what you're capable of."
Oh yes. Before you're done with her, this dick-kitten's going to blow the biggest load of her life all over the room.
"I'll take that as a promise!" Kas snickers, giving Cait a little push back and spreading the kitty's pale thighs. "Be rough with me, my Champion. Conquer this body as if it were my heart." -From the Solo Kas/Katherine scene in Cait's temple.
My entire thought process is that Champ is thinking to himself/herself what they'll do to her on the first line but she replies then in the second line, next the Champ is clearly speaking to her in the third line but there's no "' to highlight this so you have to be using context and common sense to follow scenes, not to mention its supposed to be a solo scene but Cait is still mentioned.
Observer's content is really good imo but its stuff like this that pulls me out because it happens often and its inconsistent, so sometime you see this quirk pop up in their writing and others their doing things the standard way.
I get what you are trying to say that their nice ppl now but you have to undertand the is significance of this info is lost if the character is forced to be all accepting, there has to be at the very least moments where PC has to mentally grapple with the fact that they ate ppl inorder to become a person. We meet an unformed wraith at the end of the Ice Palace and a wraith in the middle of feeding in the Valkyrie side quest. We know how deceptive and hungry wraiths are, how do we know that the Gods aren't acting to keep the cattle sated?
Let's say you meet someone and you hit it off with them, you both grown close and they tell you that they had to kill ppl in order to get to your side of the country; how would you react?
Even if at the end of the day the writers choose to make them all shroud goodguys, playing up that plot point and drama up is necessary, the fact the PC doesn't acknowledged this feels either forced or negligent.
Let's say you meet someone and you hit it off with them, you both grown close and they tell you that they had to kill ppl in order to get to your side of the country; how would you react?
Even if at the end of the day the writers choose to make them all shroud goodguys, playing up that plot point and drama up is necessary, the fact the PC doesn't acknowledged this feels either forced or negligent.
those are very niche options but I get that your saying it's acknowledged to an extent but Like I said negligible at best, I waltz through the game without knowing they existed till the Wiki, that should not be the case.
I'd agree with you if any of that mattered; time doesn't matter because there is no pressure on the player; those ingredients and requirements aren't too hard to get for the cloister, and Zo is a far better and less clunky way to reduce corruption. The only reason I choose 1-3 rng is because gambling keeps ppl hooked and rolling for 3s would keep her meditation relevant while not making the others redundant.
I gave options not like I want her to have them all; one offensive buff and one defensive buff (you give it or you take it ;p, Ludo-narrative harmony), if they want balance they can tweak the numbers and make them hr based so the player has to reapply that buff if they want it. The multiple sex scenes thing is not unique and not a draw in itself, we the pc are flushed for choices in that regard and the only draw is that she livens up combat with crit comments, thats why incentives are necessary to keep her scenes relevant.
Tbh I'm hoping for more enemies that aren't just walking fap material. The wolves that attack in the Old Forest were so refreshing for me; the fact that there are npcs, lore, and stories that talk about how unruly or wild and dangerous the world is you never get that feeling because everything just wants to fuck you. The difference between this and say Monstergirl Quest is that at least they kill off the characters and have bad ends and scenarios where ppl die or vividly describe when the characters get viciously stomped out or deliver a stomping.
I see what you're saying. It just irks me is all.
This is a fair line of questioning. But there's a fairly simple explanation.
You know the Gods are on the level because this isn't a story about antitheism or Devil sympathy. This isn't Asura's Wrath or Shin Megami Tensei, where they allow people to operate from the position that "Hey maybe God is wrong and we should fight against Him," or "Hey maybe the Devil has the right idea and we should work with him," or even, "Hey maybe God & His Angels and the Devil and his Demons both suck, and we should strive to create a world free of both of them." The closest they come to any kind of "Worshipping the Seven is bad, actually," sentiment is the Ice Elf Druids who complained that the Winter City and other surviving territories converted to Lumian worship after feeling the Old Wyld had failed them and in the aftermath, the Queen and her Royal Harem became estranged and ultimately died with broken hearts and lingering regrets. Even then it's a morally grey situation and Lumia even says "My bad" when Ryn asks her about it. I guess there's room to discuss Keros transforming Komari into a yasha and her centuries-long suffering, but even that wasn't cruelty for its own sake and carried at least the promise of death once she truly atoned for her failure.
There's also the fact that Kasyrra's arrival and transformation of people into demons and monsters is treated as an unambiguously bad thing, even to people like Alissa who are arguably demons already. Compared to Asura's Wrath or Shin Megami Tensei, this view of the Gods in the setting is very charitable, even with the ex-Squid Monster backstory. If they wanted to they could have gone in a very different direction where the Gods were the antagonists and Kasyrra was a hero for trying to stop them. The fact they didn't do that is something I take as a cue to not question it too much.
There's also the fact that Kasyrra's arrival and transformation of people into demons and monsters is treated as an unambiguously bad thing, even to people like Alissa who are arguably demons already. Compared to Asura's Wrath or Shin Megami Tensei, this view of the Gods in the setting is very charitable, even with the ex-Squid Monster backstory. If they wanted to they could have gone in a very different direction where the Gods were the antagonists and Kasyrra was a hero for trying to stop them. The fact they didn't do that is something I take as a cue to not question it too much.
To be entirely frank the 'gods' of CoC2 are a bunch of wanked out sues compared to how gods were portrayed in the previous game (and will be portrayed in comparison to the favoured new DM's holy OCs if things were to continue as was originally planned in the design documents, being a loser jobber antagonist that gets his power absorbed by the Kitsune).
The previous Gods of CoC1 could be corrupted and overcome by the actions of the demon hordes, the new ones are not only literal and figurative sex gods but aware of everything and could individually all destroy Kas and her army with a single pinkie like they were characters from DBZ but just... don't. They (and the wraiths by extension) have story-breaking levels of power for no real reason except perhaps the head Dev is such a big fan of D&D and writes his 'gods' accordingly.
People behind this game have long claimed that it isn't a power fantasy for the player character as an answer to various situations, and that seems mostly true, its more often a power fantasy of the developers or individual writers and their concepts.
The previous Gods of CoC1 could be corrupted and overcome by the actions of the demon hordes, the new ones are not only literal and figurative sex gods but aware of everything and could individually all destroy Kas and her army with a single pinkie like they were characters from DBZ but just... don't. They (and the wraiths by extension) have story-breaking levels of power for no real reason except perhaps the head Dev is such a big fan of D&D and writes his 'gods' accordingly.
People behind this game have long claimed that it isn't a power fantasy for the player character as an answer to various situations, and that seems mostly true, its more often a power fantasy of the developers or individual writers and their concepts.
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CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
The problem is that writer intent doesn't actually quite match up with the end product here, leading to a world that is largely extremely dark grey versus black morality.
Like I don't know why I need to keep saying this, but letting a demonic rape cult consume large swathes of your world is fucking terrible, and the most charitable interpretation is that they are letting it happen because they think it will give them insight on how to restore the surviving wraithtouched. Considering how much time has passed since the big silly god war, and how quick some of the sentient races are at breeding, it's a safe bet to assume that the world's current populace is well past the amount of wraithtouched that managed to not be killed off in the war or hunted down in recent times.
So they're operating fully on the Needs of the Few outweigh the Needs of the Many in a best case scenario here, which is utterly ridiculous given that the worst off victims of being wraith touched are effectively lobotomized already, versus the active physical, spiritual and mental anguish the gods are allowing to befall on those they've deceived into worshipping them(which no matter what will always be an ethically questionable thing to do, even with the best intentions).
Both sides DO suck when you take the time to think about it for five seconds.
Like I don't know why I need to keep saying this, but letting a demonic rape cult consume large swathes of your world is fucking terrible, and the most charitable interpretation is that they are letting it happen because they think it will give them insight on how to restore the surviving wraithtouched. Considering how much time has passed since the big silly god war, and how quick some of the sentient races are at breeding, it's a safe bet to assume that the world's current populace is well past the amount of wraithtouched that managed to not be killed off in the war or hunted down in recent times.
So they're operating fully on the Needs of the Few outweigh the Needs of the Many in a best case scenario here, which is utterly ridiculous given that the worst off victims of being wraith touched are effectively lobotomized already, versus the active physical, spiritual and mental anguish the gods are allowing to befall on those they've deceived into worshipping them(which no matter what will always be an ethically questionable thing to do, even with the best intentions).
Both sides DO suck when you take the time to think about it for five seconds.
Is that going to be an actual thing? Figured we'd just banish them to be at least somewhat respectful to the original game, that's kinda shitty if true.
Also could you throw a spoiler over your post please?
Also could you throw a spoiler over your post please?
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These things you're bringing up were brought up in the Convocation of Mirrors. I should know, considering I've done it half a dozen times already. The Champ is very disturbed by it as the information is being revealed, but it can be assumed that they have a conclusion similar to Phyria's: As wraiths, they were driven by an unending hunger. Alongside that, it's shown pretty clearly that the gods, or at least Nareva, feel a shit-ton of regret for their actions as wraiths, and their taking up the mantle of gods was to try to make amends to the societies of the people they consumed.
As for the "deceptive" stuff, it's also described how the reason for the wraith's hunger is that they are voids. They completely lack emotions, but can experience them through consuming people's souls. When the gods ascended from this void state, they lost the reason for eating souls, since they gained emotions, and gained reasons to not eat souls, that being regret. Can we trust the things revealed 100%? Maybe not, but given the context of the conversation, I think that these things should be taken as factual.
As for the "deceptive" stuff, it's also described how the reason for the wraith's hunger is that they are voids. They completely lack emotions, but can experience them through consuming people's souls. When the gods ascended from this void state, they lost the reason for eating souls, since they gained emotions, and gained reasons to not eat souls, that being regret. Can we trust the things revealed 100%? Maybe not, but given the context of the conversation, I think that these things should be taken as factual.
CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
Maybe you should pay more attention to the text then, instead of skimming over it while looking for more things to back up your preconceived notion of what's going on...
The Seven are preparing their followers for an anti-Kas crusade but these things take time and if you have even a shred of knowledge of historical campaigns you'll understand that trying to launch one piecemeal is a recipe for disaster. While they're building up their forces to do it properly, the Seven are also hoping that you might be able to solve the problem with less bloodshed.
And no, the world has not recovered enough to not have to worry about the wraithtouched. Practically every time someone discusses the old heartland it's made clear that it's dangerous and the reason most of the paladin orders are down there is because that's where they need to be. The valkyries spend most of their free time attempting to stem the tide of the wraithtouched, who are also capable of replenishing their numbers and Anni specifically mentions that the population isn't increasing fast enough to provide the surplus needed to reclaim and hold territory against the wraithtouched. So no, the Seven really can't afford to send everything against Kas right now and need time to prepare for an offensive.
And no, the world has not recovered enough to not have to worry about the wraithtouched. Practically every time someone discusses the old heartland it's made clear that it's dangerous and the reason most of the paladin orders are down there is because that's where they need to be. The valkyries spend most of their free time attempting to stem the tide of the wraithtouched, who are also capable of replenishing their numbers and Anni specifically mentions that the population isn't increasing fast enough to provide the surplus needed to reclaim and hold territory against the wraithtouched. So no, the Seven really can't afford to send everything against Kas right now and need time to prepare for an offensive.
The gods seem to just be following the standard let the hero's, adventurers, amassed followers handle it mentality of godly beings which makes sense, if they fixed every problem then people would expect it from them like is said by one of the god ingame which I think is Keros but I might be wrong. Also how much of the Gods dialog of them talking about being wraithy and of what they do and how they work have you read, all of it or just some?
Also thought it has no effect on the game world I thought it would be fun to give you the knowledge that Savin's own D&D world has his gods being false in their own power base by drawing their powers from eldritch corpses on the moon which also houses the afterlife known as the Dream.
Also thought it has no effect on the game world I thought it would be fun to give you the knowledge that Savin's own D&D world has his gods being false in their own power base by drawing their powers from eldritch corpses on the moon which also houses the afterlife known as the Dream.
I still have no clue why gods just, you know, kill Kass. They had so many opportunists, and she is just ant to them.
"but it can be assumed" that right there is what I hate the most, why is my character being forced into accepting and agreeing to another's thought process? Because its convenient for the writers. This revelation should've been saved for the mid to late game and not achievable at lvl 3, because thats Phyria's pov on the topic and there are clear branches of thought that can come from that situation: 1. Are they trustworthy? 2. Do they know that you know or has sexy-snake kept it to herself? 3. Do they still know how to use souls and can it be taught or acquired?
There doesn't have to be extremes tho, the Gods can be Good guys but shady and Kas can still do reasonable stuff without the hero worship, the point I'm making is that it's a big deal and its being treated as trivial info when the games and media that make, popularize, use this trope do it to greater effect. Just brushing it off is not the way to deal with it; its something the Protag needs to grapple with, especially since almost every scene has ppl screaming the name of their god.
My friends and I have been talking about the annoyance we have when it comes to some of the pc's dialogue and how it tends to infer how the player has been playing interaction wise. One friend in particular doesn't like how the game automatically assumes that she's ready to jump in all her companions' pants when she wants to build a storyline with her customizable pc to maybe possibly center around one romance storyline.
Basically like in a game with heavy customization, having the pc's personality and how they interact with characters shouldn't be predetermined. What's the point of being able to choose race and hair color and eye color and height and body type if it's the same person when you get down to playing.
Idk I don't personally think a female elf hunter would react the same way as a cat boy who is a part of a sex religion.
Basically like in a game with heavy customization, having the pc's personality and how they interact with characters shouldn't be predetermined. What's the point of being able to choose race and hair color and eye color and height and body type if it's the same person when you get down to playing.
Idk I don't personally think a female elf hunter would react the same way as a cat boy who is a part of a sex religion.
Because as a matter of writer convenience, the Champion is not you but a character you just happen to have a huge amount of control over. Think the Avatar from the Ultima series, but with more dialogue and more Horni. They're canonically pansexual because it's so much easier for the writers to assume that the Champ is attracted to every potential sex partner without having to write a zillion parsers to track what you've done plus checks for your starting/current race and your background, for every scene, to see whether or not your Champ 'should' be reacting in a particular way.
There are some checks that could use tweaking like Brint going from buddy to hazubando in one night of sex and Ryn's high-Con scene is something that they've talked about changing so it's gated behind having sex at least once (at which point it can be assumed the Champ's feelings match the scene) but anything more extensive by way of trying to track player preference just isn't a realistic option.
There are some checks that could use tweaking like Brint going from buddy to hazubando in one night of sex and Ryn's high-Con scene is something that they've talked about changing so it's gated behind having sex at least once (at which point it can be assumed the Champ's feelings match the scene) but anything more extensive by way of trying to track player preference just isn't a realistic option.
CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
Given how much weight you put on Word of God rather then the actual in-game content and what it amounts to, I'd be rather surprised if you did more reading then I to be perfectly honest with you.
There is literally zero need for an actual war effort if their goal is to wipe out Kas? You know what it would take? One of these seven fucks with their occasionally reality defying power to do a fraction of to her what a weakened Lumia(who was weakened due to the influence of another wraith whom she refued to kill until it had weakened her enough that that was no longer an option) can pull off on an honest-to-god wraith if you go the Kas Romance path in winter city. Mallach and Keros both display the ability to instantly travel across the material plane without needing access to any form of conventional Ways access, they're all well and above supernaturally physically powerful, to the point that whereas even Kas can be at miniscule risk of being battered in the Winter City fight(you're not supposed to win, but there's presumably a reason it's an actual fight instead of just text screaming CHAMPION GOT LAID THE FUCK OUT), smut scenes with Keros make it abundantly clear you'd be hopelessly outclassed no matter how strong you get.
They possess the means to kill her, killing her shoves a huge wrench in the gears for the demon cult since whilst Tollus kept things more organized, so they should probably just kill her. Kas is the major galvanizing force that turns them into a major threat in the present day, the figure head more and more flock to. Kill her and some join back up with the cueball whilst the rest scatter, and then tracking down and killing Tollus can be soundly left in mortal hands with a reasonable expectation of possible success.
That first part is such a mind numbingly irrational argument that I admire your willingness to even offer it up in the first place.
And I never said the wraithtouched aren't a problem, but their numbers likely are depleted in regards to non corrupted life, whom they presumably need to prey upon in order to restock their own ranks, otherwise they're producing basically super imps in that they're naturally soulless shits and thus are morally justifiable to murder according to the devs, since Imps are fully sentient and yet no one bats an eye and stomping them. If the latter is the case, then no, you still don't need to worry about soul restoration, since the actual populace that needs their souls restored within the Wraith-touched ranks is still incredibly small in numbers if we're going by realistic expectations here.
Now insult me over not reading and then respond to this in a way that makes it clear you did not read half of it again.
There is literally zero need for an actual war effort if their goal is to wipe out Kas? You know what it would take? One of these seven fucks with their occasionally reality defying power to do a fraction of to her what a weakened Lumia(who was weakened due to the influence of another wraith whom she refued to kill until it had weakened her enough that that was no longer an option) can pull off on an honest-to-god wraith if you go the Kas Romance path in winter city. Mallach and Keros both display the ability to instantly travel across the material plane without needing access to any form of conventional Ways access, they're all well and above supernaturally physically powerful, to the point that whereas even Kas can be at miniscule risk of being battered in the Winter City fight(you're not supposed to win, but there's presumably a reason it's an actual fight instead of just text screaming CHAMPION GOT LAID THE FUCK OUT), smut scenes with Keros make it abundantly clear you'd be hopelessly outclassed no matter how strong you get.
They possess the means to kill her, killing her shoves a huge wrench in the gears for the demon cult since whilst Tollus kept things more organized, so they should probably just kill her. Kas is the major galvanizing force that turns them into a major threat in the present day, the figure head more and more flock to. Kill her and some join back up with the cueball whilst the rest scatter, and then tracking down and killing Tollus can be soundly left in mortal hands with a reasonable expectation of possible success.
That first part is such a mind numbingly irrational argument that I admire your willingness to even offer it up in the first place.
And I never said the wraithtouched aren't a problem, but their numbers likely are depleted in regards to non corrupted life, whom they presumably need to prey upon in order to restock their own ranks, otherwise they're producing basically super imps in that they're naturally soulless shits and thus are morally justifiable to murder according to the devs, since Imps are fully sentient and yet no one bats an eye and stomping them. If the latter is the case, then no, you still don't need to worry about soul restoration, since the actual populace that needs their souls restored within the Wraith-touched ranks is still incredibly small in numbers if we're going by realistic expectations here.
Now insult me over not reading and then respond to this in a way that makes it clear you did not read half of it again.
The bigger problem with them leaving Kas alone is that she goes around opening portals, portals that can cause more wraiths to pour in (and literally does bring a void beastie in that the champion and Kas together can't even put a scratch on in the story path mentioned above), which elevates things above a 'mortal' concern.
If Kas was just going around raping people into more demons that would be one thing, but her antics could literally cause a second incursion by the oh so scary wraiths themselves which should be the primary concern for the seven. And they clearly possess the ability to snuff the demon queen out with no effort on their part so why wouldn't they do so instead of messing around and having sex scenes with the player champion.
If Kas was just going around raping people into more demons that would be one thing, but her antics could literally cause a second incursion by the oh so scary wraiths themselves which should be the primary concern for the seven. And they clearly possess the ability to snuff the demon queen out with no effort on their part so why wouldn't they do so instead of messing around and having sex scenes with the player champion.
CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
I've mentioned that before on here but was ignored, good to know someone else is actually raising an eyebrow at it.
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