Your gripes with CoC II

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

Spoiler

Hey maybe God & His Angels and the Devil and his Demons both suck,

Spoiler

The problem is that writer intent doesn't actually quite match up with the end product here, leading to a world that is largely extremely dark grey versus black morality.

Like I don't know why I need to keep saying this, but letting a demonic rape cult consume large swathes of your world is fucking terrible, and the most charitable interpretation is that they are letting it happen because they think it will give them insight on how to restore the surviving wraithtouched. Considering how much time has passed since the big silly god war, and how quick some of the sentient races are at breeding, it's a safe bet to assume that the world's current populace is well past the amount of wraithtouched that managed to not be killed off in the war or hunted down in recent times.

So they're operating fully on the Needs of the Few outweigh the Needs of the Many in a best case scenario here, which is utterly ridiculous given that the worst off victims of being wraith touched are effectively lobotomized already, versus the active physical, spiritual and mental anguish the gods are allowing to befall on those they've deceived into worshipping them(which no matter what will always be an ethically questionable thing to do, even with the best intentions).

Both sides DO suck when you take the time to think about it for five seconds.

Spoiler

and will be portrayed in comparison to the favoured new DM's holy OCs if things were to continue as was originally planned in the design documents, being a loser jobber that gets his power absorbed by the Kitsune

Spoiler

Is that going to be an actual thing? Figured we'd just banish them to be at least somewhat respectful to the original game, that's kinda shitty if true.

Also could you throw a spoiler over your post please?

 

[MarcoPolo121]

Oh boy, it's that word that has been overused so much it's lost all meaning...

 

[Tide Hunter]

Spoiler

I get what you are trying to say that their nice ppl now but you have to undertand the is significance of this info is lost if the character is forced to be all accepting, there has to be at the very least moments where PC has to mentally grapple with the fact that they ate ppl inorder to become a person. We meet an unformed wraith at the end of the Ice Palace and a wraith in the middle of feeding in the Valkyrie side quest. We know how deceptive and hungry wraiths are, how do we know that the Gods aren't acting to keep the cattle sated?
Let's say you meet someone and you hit it off with them, you both grown close and they tell you that they had to kill ppl in order to get to your side of the country; how would you react?
Even if at the end of the day the writers choose to make them all shroud goodguys, playing up that plot point and drama up is necessary, the fact the PC doesn't acknowledged this feels either forced or negligent.

Spoiler: y'know

These things you're bringing up were brought up in the Convocation of Mirrors. I should know, considering I've done it half a dozen times already. The Champ is very disturbed by it as the information is being revealed, but it can be assumed that they have a conclusion similar to Phyria's: As wraiths, they were driven by an unending hunger. Alongside that, it's shown pretty clearly that the gods, or at least Nareva, feel a shit-ton of regret for their actions as wraiths, and their taking up the mantle of gods was to try to make amends to the societies of the people they consumed.

As for the "deceptive" stuff, it's also described how the reason for the wraith's hunger is that they are voids. They completely lack emotions, but can experience them through consuming people's souls. When the gods ascended from this void state, they lost the reason for eating souls, since they gained emotions, and gained reasons to not eat souls, that being regret. Can we trust the things revealed 100%? Maybe not, but given the context of the conversation, I think that these things should be taken as factual.

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

Oh boy, it's that word that has been overused so much it's lost all meaning...

Spoiler?

I have been seeing it an awful lot lately.

 

[WolframL]

Spoiler

Like I don't know why I need to keep saying this, but letting a demonic rape cult consume large swathes of your world is fucking terrible, and the most charitable interpretation is that they are letting it happen because they think it will give them insight on how to restore the surviving wraithtouched. Considering how much time has passed since the big silly god war, and how quick some of the sentient races are at breeding, it's a safe bet to assume that the world's current populace is well past the amount of wraithtouched that managed to not be killed off in the war or hunted down in recent times.

Maybe you should pay more attention to the text then, instead of skimming over it while looking for more things to back up your preconceived notion of what's going on...

Spoiler

The Seven are preparing their followers for an anti-Kas crusade but these things take time and if you have even a shred of knowledge of historical campaigns you'll understand that trying to launch one piecemeal is a recipe for disaster. While they're building up their forces to do it properly, the Seven are also hoping that you might be able to solve the problem with less bloodshed.

And no, the world has not recovered enough to not have to worry about the wraithtouched. Practically every time someone discusses the old heartland it's made clear that it's dangerous and the reason most of the paladin orders are down there is because that's where they need to be. The valkyries spend most of their free time attempting to stem the tide of the wraithtouched, who are also capable of replenishing their numbers and Anni specifically mentions that the population isn't increasing fast enough to provide the surplus needed to reclaim and hold territory against the wraithtouched. So no, the Seven really can't afford to send everything against Kas right now and need time to prepare for an offensive.

 

[Resawar]

(Minimized for size reasons)

Spoiler: Gods

The gods seem to just be following the standard let the hero's, adventurers, amassed followers handle it mentality of godly beings which makes sense, if they fixed every problem then people would expect it from them like is said by one of the god ingame which I think is Keros but I might be wrong. Also how much of the Gods dialog of them talking about being wraithy and of what they do and how they work have you read, all of it or just some?

Also thought it has no effect on the game world I thought it would be fun to give you the knowledge that Savin's own D&D world has his gods being false in their own power base by drawing their powers from eldritch corpses on the moon which also houses the afterlife known as the Dream.

 

[Animalistic]

I still have no clue why gods just, you know, kill Kass. They had so many opportunists, and she is just ant to them.

 

[Melancholy Man]

Spoiler: y'know

These things you're bringing up were brought up in the Convocation of Mirrors. I should know, considering I've done it half a dozen times already. The Champ is very disturbed by it as the information is being revealed, but it can be assumed that they have a conclusion similar to Phyria's: As wraiths, they were driven by an unending hunger. Alongside that, it's shown pretty clearly that the gods, or at least Nareva, feel a shit-ton of regret for their actions as wraiths, and their taking up the mantle of gods was to try to make amends to the societies of the people they consumed.

As for the "deceptive" stuff, it's also described how the reason for the wraith's hunger is that they are voids. They completely lack emotions, but can experience them through consuming people's souls. When the gods ascended from this void state, they lost the reason for eating souls, since they gained emotions, and gained reasons to not eat souls, that being regret. Can we trust the things revealed 100%? Maybe not, but given the context of the conversation, I think that these things should be taken as factual.

"but it can be assumed" that right there is what I hate the most, why is my character being forced into accepting and agreeing to another's thought process? Because its convenient for the writers. This revelation should've been saved for the mid to late game and not achievable at lvl 3, because thats Phyria's pov on the topic and there are clear branches of thought that can come from that situation: 1. Are they trustworthy? 2. Do they know that you know or has sexy-snake kept it to herself? 3. Do they still know how to use souls and can it be taught or acquired?

 

[Melancholy Man]

I see what you're saying. It just irks me is all.

This is a fair line of questioning. But there's a fairly simple explanation.

Spoiler: To put it bluntly...

You know the Gods are on the level because this isn't a story about antitheism or Devil sympathy. This isn't Asura's Wrath or Shin Megami Tensei, where they allow people to operate from the position that "Hey maybe God is wrong and we should fight against Him," or "Hey maybe the Devil has the right idea and we should work with him," or even, "Hey maybe God & His Angels and the Devil and his Demons both suck, and we should strive to create a world free of both of them." The closest they come to any kind of "Worshipping the Seven is bad, actually," sentiment is the Ice Elf Druids who complained that the Winter City and other surviving territories converted to Lumian worship after feeling the Old Wyld had failed them and in the aftermath, the Queen and her Royal Harem became estranged and ultimately died with broken hearts and lingering regrets. Even then it's a morally grey situation and Lumia even says "My bad" when Ryn asks her about it. I guess there's room to discuss Keros transforming Komari into a yasha and her centuries-long suffering, but even that wasn't cruelty for its own sake and carried at least the promise of death once she truly atoned for her failure.

There's also the fact that Kasyrra's arrival and transformation of people into demons and monsters is treated as an unambiguously bad thing, even to people like Alissa who are arguably demons already. Compared to Asura's Wrath or Shin Megami Tensei, this view of the Gods in the setting is very charitable, even with the ex-Squid Monster backstory. If they wanted to they could have gone in a very different direction where the Gods were the antagonists and Kasyrra was a hero for trying to stop them. The fact they didn't do that is something I take as a cue to not question it too much.

There doesn't have to be extremes tho, the Gods can be Good guys but shady and Kas can still do reasonable stuff without the hero worship, the point I'm making is that it's a big deal and its being treated as trivial info when the games and media that make, popularize, use this trope do it to greater effect. Just brushing it off is not the way to deal with it; its something the Protag needs to grapple with, especially since almost every scene has ppl screaming the name of their god.

 

[mallowmarsh]

My friends and I have been talking about the annoyance we have when it comes to some of the pc's dialogue and how it tends to infer how the player has been playing interaction wise. One friend in particular doesn't like how the game automatically assumes that she's ready to jump in all her companions' pants when she wants to build a storyline with her customizable pc to maybe possibly center around one romance storyline.

Basically like in a game with heavy customization, having the pc's personality and how they interact with characters shouldn't be predetermined. What's the point of being able to choose race and hair color and eye color and height and body type if it's the same person when you get down to playing.

Idk I don't personally think a female elf hunter would react the same way as a cat boy who is a part of a sex religion.

 

[WolframL]

Because as a matter of writer convenience, the Champion is not you but a character you just happen to have a huge amount of control over. Think the Avatar from the Ultima series, but with more dialogue and more Horni. They're canonically pansexual because it's so much easier for the writers to assume that the Champ is attracted to every potential sex partner without having to write a zillion parsers to track what you've done plus checks for your starting/current race and your background, for every scene, to see whether or not your Champ 'should' be reacting in a particular way.

There are some checks that could use tweaking like Brint going from buddy to hazubando in one night of sex and Ryn's high-Con scene is something that they've talked about changing so it's gated behind having sex at least once (at which point it can be assumed the Champ's feelings match the scene) but anything more extensive by way of trying to track player preference just isn't a realistic option.

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

Maybe you should pay more attention to the text then, instead of skimming over it while looking for more things to back up your preconceived notion of what's going on...

Spoiler

The Seven are preparing their followers for an anti-Kas crusade but these things take time and if you have even a shred of knowledge of historical campaigns you'll understand that trying to launch one piecemeal is a recipe for disaster. While they're building up their forces to do it properly, the Seven are also hoping that you might be able to solve the problem with less bloodshed.

And no, the world has not recovered enough to not have to worry about the wraithtouched. Practically every time someone discusses the old heartland it's made clear that it's dangerous and the reason most of the paladin orders are down there is because that's where they need to be. The valkyries spend most of their free time attempting to stem the tide of the wraithtouched, who are also capable of replenishing their numbers and Anni specifically mentions that the population isn't increasing fast enough to provide the surplus needed to reclaim and hold territory against the wraithtouched.

Spoiler

Given how much weight you put on Word of God rather then the actual in-game content and what it amounts to, I'd be rather surprised if you did more reading then I to be perfectly honest with you.

There is literally zero need for an actual war effort if their goal is to wipe out Kas? You know what it would take? One of these seven fucks with their occasionally reality defying power to do a fraction of to her what a weakened Lumia(who was weakened due to the influence of another wraith whom she refued to kill until it had weakened her enough that that was no longer an option) can pull off on an honest-to-god wraith if you go the Kas Romance path in winter city. Mallach and Keros both display the ability to instantly travel across the material plane without needing access to any form of conventional Ways access, they're all well and above supernaturally physically powerful, to the point that whereas even Kas can be at miniscule risk of being battered in the Winter City fight(you're not supposed to win, but there's presumably a reason it's an actual fight instead of just text screaming CHAMPION GOT LAID THE FUCK OUT), smut scenes with Keros make it abundantly clear you'd be hopelessly outclassed no matter how strong you get.

They possess the means to kill her, killing her shoves a huge wrench in the gears for the demon cult since whilst Tollus kept things more organized, so they should probably just kill her. Kas is the major galvanizing force that turns them into a major threat in the present day, the figure head more and more flock to. Kill her and some join back up with the cueball whilst the rest scatter, and then tracking down and killing Tollus can be soundly left in mortal hands with a reasonable expectation of possible success.

That first part is such a mind numbingly irrational argument that I admire your willingness to even offer it up in the first place.

And I never said the wraithtouched aren't a problem, but their numbers likely are depleted in regards to non corrupted life, whom they presumably need to prey upon in order to restock their own ranks, otherwise they're producing basically super imps in that they're naturally soulless shits and thus are morally justifiable to murder according to the devs, since Imps are fully sentient and yet no one bats an eye and stomping them. If the latter is the case, then no, you still don't need to worry about soul restoration, since the actual populace that needs their souls restored within the Wraith-touched ranks is still incredibly small in numbers if we're going by realistic expectations here.

Now insult me over not reading and then respond to this in a way that makes it clear you did not read half of it again.

 

[SomeNobody]

Spoiler: Spoiler tagging seems more strict now than it used to be

The bigger problem with them leaving Kas alone is that she goes around opening portals, portals that can cause more wraiths to pour in (and literally does bring a void beastie in that the champion and Kas together can't even put a scratch on in the story path mentioned above), which elevates things above a 'mortal' concern.

If Kas was just going around raping people into more demons that would be one thing, but her antics could literally cause a second incursion by the oh so scary wraiths themselves which should be the primary concern for the seven. And they clearly possess the ability to snuff the demon queen out with no effort on their part so why wouldn't they do so instead of messing around and having sex scenes with the player champion.

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

Spoiler: Do not question the necessity of the almighty spoiler

The bigger problem with them leaving Kas alone is that she goes around opening portals, portals which can cause more wraiths to pour in (and literally does bring a void beastie in that the champion and Kas together can't beat in the story path mentioned above), which elevates things above a 'mortal' concern.

Spoiler

I've mentioned that before on here but was ignored, good to know someone else is actually raising an eyebrow at it.

 

[WolframL]

Given how much weight you put on Word of God rather then the actual in-game content and what it amounts to, I'd be rather surprised if you did more reading then I to be perfectly honest with you.

Yes, forgive me for making the clearly foolish assumption that what the creators of the game have to say might be relevant to interpreting the game, especially since the game is still incomplete so whatever they say might just indicate what sort of things will be implemented at some future date...

Spoiler

There is literally zero need for an actual war effort if their goal is to wipe out Kas? You know what it would take? One of these seven fucks with their occasionally reality defying power to do a fraction of to her...

Spoiler

The Doylist reason they don't do this is that then there wouldn't be a game if the gods could solve all your problems for you with a wave of their divine hands. Garde has been quite clear on this, though there are plans to get into the specifics of why this doesn't happen if you insist on a Watsonian explanation.

Spoiler

And I never said the wraithtouched aren't a problem, but their numbers likely are depleted in regards to non corrupted life, whom they presumably need to prey upon in order to restock their own ranks, otherwise they're producing basically super imps in that they're naturally soulless shits and thus are morally justifiable to murder according to the devs, since Imps are fully sentient and yet no one bats an eye and stomping them.

Spoiler

Their numbers are enough that divinely empowered warriors have been devoting their full attention on them for decades and are losing because again, the non-wraithtouched population isn't growing fast enough to hold new ground even when they manage to briefly take it. What the Champ can potentially do has already helped shift the balance back in favor of Team Good Guys but it doesn't mean these things aren't a serious problem that has been occupying a lot of time and resources for the past few centuries.

 

[Necros]

To add my bit of irrelevant opinion to the conversation:

If the devs add an option to mess with the Seven in some capacity, I will be pleasantly surprised, but I won't riot if they don't.

Spoiler: Relevant

Since everyone is using spoilers, i didn't want to be left out.

 

[Resawar]

Spoiler: The Divine State

The fact that Wolfram still is willing to argue with people I find amazing, no matter how many good things the gods do nor how much they repent people who want to see the gods burn for what they did will always want them punished there is no way to argue someone out of that position due to the fact that it's indicative with how people see justice in real life in a western context, no repent nor action can fix what crime they did just punishment and for the gods that's the ability to kill, destabilize, corrupt, dethrone or do something else to negatively effect them nothing else with satisfy the punishment they seek.

It's also amazing how much malevolence we ascribe to the wraith which the game reads to me as describing them as clever predators but no more then animals then when they obtain a moral compass, morality, or what ever gave them some sense of intelligence other then hunger we still cast judgement on them as if they always had it to begin with. It's like taking a cat that rips and shreds mice daily giving it a conscience and then casting our morality upon it for the action it did while being something lesser no more then an animal.

The fact that we have to address the reason for the plot and give context to the point of the game existing speak for itself with how far some arguments people are willing to take to just stoke their hatred for the gods, how else would the game exist without the gods giving us the ability to fight Kas. What game is 100% better if the game just hand waves away all the problems with the setting by just saying the gods fixed it that would ruin 90% of games, everybody should know that just because the gods are there in a setting does not mean we can lob criticism at the game devs due to not have them fix it all and don't we all rail on games and other media for having deus ex machina's like Gods fixing all the problems.

 

[SomeNobody]

Or maybe the real problems come about with the form the gods of coc2 take that it renders them a destabilising plot cancer that get to soak up far too much spotlight personally interacting with the player character and doing things for the seven to ignore ongoing events.

Its really less a question of morality and more the fact the way they are written into the story is flawed, which in particular is brought into sharp focus when compared to how similar cosmological matters were handled in the game this is a sequel to.

 

[Melancholy Man]

The Doylist reason they don't do this is that then there wouldn't be a game if the gods could solve all your problems for you with a wave of their divine hands. Garde has been quite clear on this, though there are plans to get into the specifics of why this doesn't happen if you insist on a Watsonian explanation.

The most Bs reasoning I've seen in while
Its makes the writers look disorganized and the Gods look even more like sh*t

 

[MarcoPolo121]

Ho boy, gonna be one of those circular arguments again.

 

[Melancholy Man]

Spoiler: The Divine State

The fact that Wolfram still is willing to argue with people I find amazing, no matter how many good things the gods do nor how much they repent people who want to see the gods burn for what they did will always want them punished there is no way to argue someone out of that position due to the fact that it's indicative with how people see justice in real life in a western context, no repent nor action can fix what crime they did just punishment and for the gods that's the ability to kill, destabilize, corrupt, dethrone or do something else to negatively effect them nothing else with satisfy the punishment they seek.

It's also amazing how much malevolence we ascribe to the wraith which the game reads to me as describing them as clever predators but no more then animals then when they obtain a moral compass, morality, or what ever gave them some sense of intelligence other then hunger we still cast judgement on them as if they always had it to begin with. It's like taking a cat that rips and shreds mice daily giving it a conscience and then casting our morality upon it for the action it did while being something lesser no more then an animal.

The fact that we have to address the reason for the plot and give context to the point of the game existing speak for itself with how far some arguments people are willing to take to just stoke their hatred for the gods, how else would the game exist without the gods giving us the ability to fight Kas. What game is 100% better if the game just hand waves away all the problems with the setting by just saying the gods fixed it that would ruin 90% of games, everybody should know that just because the gods are there in a setting does not mean we can lob criticism at the game devs due to not have them fix it all and don't we all rail on games and other media for having deus ex machina's like Gods fixing all the problems.

Spoiler

Its not about blind hate, for me at least is the fact the PC is just made to forget and even worst just accept this with no thought behind it; If you had a neighbor that was polite, well-mannered, even does charity work and soup kitchen duties at a community centers but its revealed that they were a mass murder 2 years ago, how would you feel about them? I'm sure there would be fairly complex emotions and situations come to mind but you wouldn't immediately be fine with them that's a fact. The authors are showing their influence too much.
What's weird to me is that according to you Wolfram has had this convo a lot and no-one thought that maybe these ppl might have a point?

 

[Resawar]

Or maybe the real problems come about with the form the gods of coc2 take that it renders them a destabilising plot cancer that get to soak up far too much spotlight personally interacting with the player character and doing things for the seven to ignore ongoing events.

Its really less a question of morality and more the fact the way they are written into the story is flawed, which in particular is brought into sharp focus when compared to how similar cosmological matters were handled in the game this is a sequel to.

You fall into the first and third paragraph's demographic, your vague criticism show you have no solid points and are unable to charitably and with good faith discuss any of the matters at hand.

Spoiler Text

Spoiler: Hide to hide just in case

You can't even engage with the example I made and brought it back to beings that baseline start with morality and empathy bar psychopaths and thus try obfuscate with 'maybe if enough people say it maybe you should reevaluate your position because you might be wrong'. Also you say you harbor no hate but you are very clearly passionate about the matter.

Thus I am done talking out the matter with both of you.

 

[SomeNobody]

unable to charitably and with good faith discuss any of the matters at hand.

Hypocrisy Resawar, when with your invented "demographics" you assign arguments solely of your own devising into the mouths of others for not agreeing with you.

 

[Sacremas]

Just a friendly reminder that if people are arguing passionately about something, it's because they love what they are talking about, and are just upset about what they see as problems with it, rather than hating on it as a whole. If people hated the game in any way, they wouldn't have the passion to post about it here and argue things back and forth, it would just become apathy instead. Passionate arguments come out of love for a subject, not hate. Likewise if someone actively defend those things as not being problems, they're probably also doing it out of love for the subject at hand, leaving everyone with a lot more similarities than differences. Let's keep that in mind and try to be a little more polite than some people are being please?

 

[Melancholy Man]

You fall into the first and third paragraph's demographic, your vague criticism show you have no solid points and are unable to charitably and with good faith discuss any of the matters at hand.

Spoiler: Hide to hide just in case

You can't even engage with the example I made and brought it back to beings that baseline start with morality and empathy bar psychopaths and thus try obfuscate with 'maybe if enough people say it maybe you should reevaluate your position because you might be wrong'. Also you say you harbor no hate but you are very clearly passionate about the matter.

Thus I am done talking out the matter with both of you.

Thats fine you do you but note that you didn't answer my question because you know the outcome. You giving me plot justifications don't excuse the actions nor does it excuse forcing the pc to just comply. If you want a more complex example instead of a simple one; How do you feel about a government that provides for its ppl and brings them great prosperity by destabilizing others and causing choas for foreigners in the name of homeland interests?

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

Ho boy, gonna be one of those circular arguments again.

There is no other kind.

To be honest with topics like these I kind of enjoy the discussion itself, got the 2 front nostalgia flowing through me since I'm both a vet of writing and worldbuilding communities where would get into it about this sort of thing fairly often, and the debates we would have in my ethics courses.

Anyhow!

Spoiler: The future belongs to the spoilers

The Doylist reason they don't do this is that then there wouldn't be a game if the gods could solve all your problems for you with a wave of their divine hands. Garde has been quite clear on this, though there are plans to get into the specifics of why this doesn't happen if you insist on a Watsonian explanation.

I have referenced that it exists the way it does clearly for gameplay purposes multiple times myself Wolf. But we're talking lore and writing right now, several of the writers have talked about how they want to emphasize such over the original game, so 'it's a gameplay mechanic' is not quite a valid argument in this situation. This be lore speak.

Like I feel like we do this all the time, you think you've got me with some clever point that I sure must have missed, then I explain that I did know that and think it's either irrelevant or illogical and usually explain why and then we both piss off and do it again a week or 2 later. And you're usually kind of rude to me during the whole thing, for no real reason. I criticize the devs, not you, and when I am making suggestions about your own behavior I typically try to be polite and considerate about it unless you were getting after me prior.

You aren't the devs, and unless you go out of your way to start shit with me I typically try to be polite and courteous when we interact, so I kindly ask you to knock it the fuck off and cool yourself when you want to go mad dogging just because someone questioned the team you wish to believe yourself on a friendly basis with. They're writers, no one questioning what they're doing, especially when they have the experience to give genuine feedback and criticism, is detrimental to their chances to learn and evolve. Plus a few of them can be proper asses if we're all being honest, and at that point dragging some less then stellar writing into the light is more then fair game.

Haven't even read the second bit because I've gone off rambling about this, but I'll check it out in a bit and respond to it if it seems to be put well enough together.

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

Just a friendly reminder that if people are arguing passionately about something, it's because they love what they are talking about, and are just upset about what they see as problems with it, rather than hating on it as a whole. If people hated the game in any way, they wouldn't have the passion to post about it here and argue things back and forth, it would just become apathy instead. Passionate arguments come out of love for a subject, not hate. Likewise if someone actively defend those things as not being problems, they're probably also doing it out of love for the subject at hand, leaving everyone with a lot more similarities than differences. Let's keep that in mind and try to be a little more polite than some people are being please?

Sorry for the double post, but this is a very insightful response Sacremas, and one a lot of people do not pick up on. It's quite admirable of you to try and bring a bit of peace and understanding to the topic, and I thank you for it.

I think we all would do well to heed these words and cool down a bit.

 

[Off The Record]

If Brint was anything like Brienne, he would instantly become one of my favorites characters in the game: an 8 and half foot tall minotaur with big dick that is obsessed with you, is submissive and is monogamous to boot? Sign me up.

Not a gripe for me per se, but I'm not a fan of all the big dick romanceable options being all "I'm such a stud and I get laid, like, every morning, afternoon, and night."These characters behave like douchebag manwhores, and it's a shame to me because they're hot, but I feel cheap fucking them. Like I'm a masturbatory sleeve. Arona is a prime example of this. Brint isn't a douchebag, but he does have that manwhore energy. Lowkey, I feel like Brint would be more liked if he leaned into a himbo archetype: kind, dumb, and hot.

Anyway, I'm sure others like the douchebag manwhore energy but this has been something I've been thinking about.

 

[Animalistic]

Yeah, Brint is sweet but him being a manwhore, and unappealing one at that, knocks him few pegs down the totem poll in terms of desirable partners. I wish there was a route where we could domesticate him, make him more royal and more subby. Maybe remove the snout. Something tells me that would bode well in terms of his popularity.

 

[Kingu2]

I really want to address this handwaving nonsense that people seem to think is a good reason to have plotholes in the story. Handwaving is fine for game mechanics like leveling up, how beating people up with your sword has made you better at leadership... somehow. It's fine to add fun and convience to the gameplay but it's when it comes to storytelling handwaving is actually reaaally bad because it indicates that the author fucked up and either doesn't know how to fix it or doesn't care too. It's common problem with authors writing themselves into corners, many would use some kind of contrivance like an ex machina to get themselves out. That's still not good but at least they tried. Handwaving though is actually the worst outcome because it means they didn't or couldn't write their way out of it and just left a big gross plothole there for all to see.

Let me set up a scenario. You're reading a story and in the first chapter the villian is in a position to kill the hero, has every reason to do so to the point that it would be monumetally stupid for them not to and there is nothing the hero can do to stop them but suddenly the villian stops and goes.

"oh, well uh, this is awkward, I can't actually kill you now or else the story would be over and I mean that would suck for the reader right? So... I guess I'll just fuck off for now ."

And you need to just accept that because, y'know, the story needs to happen. This is the logic you use to defend why Lumia doesn't just obliterate Kas with solar beam after tossing the tentacle monster. That the reader shouldn't complain or critisize the blatant misshandeling of story elements that got the authors into this corner and their inability to get out of it, because the story wouldn't be able happen if they didn't just ignore and move past it. This is not what handwaving is for.