Your gripes with CoC II

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It even has what I'd call a BloodBorne-insight/Lovecraftian moment where you learn the Gods were all tentacle monsters; which is also immersion breaking when the PC greets the gods like everything thing is good when they know these gods were voidborne soulsuckers. (<_<)
Sorry to pester, but would you mind throwing a spoiler over this bit? I'm sure there's a few people floating around who haven't figured out the big twist yet, don't want to ruin it for them.

I have never seen characters answer another characters’ thoughts when lines were used to portray the character thinking and not in a “out-loud” way unless telepathy wasn’t involved. There are a lot of these disrupted dialogues and I know they’re disrupted because the other writers have done similar scenes where the PC thinks to themself then inquires the other character into dialogue.
And do you remember any scenes specifically where this happens? I typically skim over content written by Observer these days since their writing style is not one I'm particularly fond of, but you've gotten me a bit curious.
 

Tide Hunter

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It even has what I'd call a BloodBorne-insight/Lovecraftian moment where you learn the Gods were all tentacle monsters; which is also immersion breaking when the PC greets the gods like everything thing is good when they know these gods were voidborne soulsuckers. (<_<)
As Antler said, people will usually keep this hidden behind spoilers, on account of it being a massive bit of lore.
Aside from that:
They're not really tentacle monsters. Like, originally, they were wraiths, which are "beings of formless entropy," which isn't really a tentacle thing. But even aside from that, that's more of what they were. They, perhaps, technically still are, but they've been given physical form and the ability to feel emotions, and have pretty much fully taken on the persona of the gods they emulated that they think of themselves as those gods. They're not horrible monsters in disguise, and despite their origins, they are, for all practical purposes, no longer wraiths.
 

WolframL

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I did not know Taxanomy existed in this game until the Wiki; here should be perks that give you an edge against a specified type and, as a balance, give us some sort of weakness or debuff of some sort.
These are already accounted for, either with specific Powers (Banishment behaves differently against Ethereal and Construct enemies) or because the elemental weaknesses of particular enemy types are specifically targeted. There's a reason that the Beast Killer bow does Blight damage: It's targeting that taxon's -75 Blight Resist stat.
Ashelander dialog options should have an additional benefit other than just smut; mediation removing 1 corruption is a step in the right direction if stingy (it should be an rng roll of 1-3)
Repeatable Corruption-reducing mechanisms are designed to be fairly low because it's meant to be easier to gain the stuff than to lose it. It's spelled out right in the game's primary design doc. The big exception is the Cloister and that requires both Winterstem and a whole bunch of in-game time to balance things out.
Cleaning her should give you a buff to either attack power, crit damage & rate, or adds bleed damage to each attack, shafting could give you defensive buffs like getting 30% of fire damage taken as health
The game is designed to not have a gear treadmill, so making any weapon that's extremely overpowered (and giving one weapon the ability to grant multiple possible buffs most certainly would be) would either make that weapon game-breakingly powerful or it would require every future encounter to be balanced around it, penalizing players who don't use Ashe. Either way would be an incredible amount of work because one person didn't think a weapon that already is very good, unlocks multiple types of sex scenes and gets special lines on crits isn't Super Speshul enough already.
There should be some interplay between DoTs in a mechanical way. I do like that they effect at least two stats at a time but they could be more unique and less dependent on numbers; say if a unit is blighted and bled, they get an initiative penalty, bleed itself should stack; burn is really strong so it should have pros and cons even working against other dots by removing bleeding upon cast but increasing bleed damage taken by a percentage once the burn sticks, having a unit bleeding and burning at the same time should trigger the dots every turn another unit takes a turn. Frigid should stack and upon having 3 stacks should freeze the unit (Pokemon style freeze is perfect for emulation but with crush resistance getting a bigger buff)
This sounds like a fascinating idea... for a game where the focus is all on the combat and not on trying to find a nice middle ground between 'Smutty text adventure where you're just selecting options' and 'Fucking end this fight already, I've been stuck fighting these mobs for half an hour!'.

Also, damage over time already has a very significant use: Bypassing shield HP. If you inflict an enemy with Burning, Poisoned or the like, the damage those do is applied directly to health instead of having to work through any shield effect that the enemy has. It doesn't need a dozen edge case combination effects to be useful.
 
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War Demon

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Not most overrated, worst. An overrated character can still be good. But for me, she's basically DC's Wolverine. A new character introduced some time after the start of the original franchise who was a big hit with the fans, but the suits' efforts to cash in on that popularity brought with it an extended push into both other parts of the franchise and crossover stuff, even if just in a minor role, to bump up sales and in the process a lot of what made them interesting and likeable was lost. I look at DC shoving her into places she arguably doesn't belong just to pump up the mainstream appeal and I groan audibly now. But, moving on.
I see what your saying but it's not like the characters themselves have, any real say. The people that use Harley as click bait. Deserve your anger not Harley herself but, still you bring up a good point. "Hey look everyone at this new comic book. With all these characters and if your still not satisfied, we'll throw in Harley Quinn as a bonus. So act now".

But like you said moving on, this a Forum for gripes. With CoC 2 not DC or Marvel so back to that.
 
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They're not really tentacle monsters. Like, originally, they were wraiths, which are "beings of formless entropy," which isn't really a tentacle thing.
Neither are a great many of HP Lovecraft's own horrors, their actual nature is often completely beyond possible comprehension for the three dimensional meat mind, and so with some of them the closest thing the mind can fathom to the real deal is 'squid' I suppose, in the way that it's this convoluted thing reaching out in all directions.

Saying something is tentacly can be a simple way of saying that something is a lovecraftian/eldritch horror, which a formless entropy being from beyond the material universe most definitely would qualify as, even if it's rather lovecraft-lite with how they're written here post god-cosplaying.

Taking on a physical form or not doesn't really change that, Nyarlathotep, perhaps the most prominent of HP's Outer Gods, appears in human guise all the time whilst also being the most comprehensible in thought process at a glance. This does not change the fact that Gnarly is likely a large aspect of the mind of Capital G God, whom themselves is a sleeping storm of nuclear chaos at the center of the cosmos, given will of it's own.

Emotions and meat doesn't disqualify the potential squid, quite a few of big names in HP's mythos displayed both, and even then 3 out of 4 of the Seven you can interact with display extreme issues with empathy and responsibility, as do all Seven when you remember that they're willing to let Kas's schemes play out, which in the most favorably interpreted scenario is them thinking it will help the surviving wraithtouched in the long run, a far smaller group in comparison those they're actively allowing to fall into physical, spiritual and mental torment.

Sorry about ye ol' giant post out of nowhere, I like talking about this sort of stuff.
 

Melancholy Man

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Sorry to pester, but would you mind throwing a spoiler over this bit? I'm sure there's a few people floating around who haven't figured out the big twist yet, don't want to ruin it for them.


And do you remember any scenes specifically where this happens? I typically skim over content written by Observer these days since their writing style is not one I'm particularly fond of, but you've gotten me a bit curious.
Nah, it's good. I noticed this with their early game content but it becomes less prominent the further you get in the game; I can only assume it's only because they were relatively fresh at writing a story and are getting better. A good example of many is:
She really does have a lovely body while in this form... you can't wait to see what it's like when you're wringing every last drop of cum out of it.
Kas grins wickedly. "Well, get started already. We'll see what you're capable of."
Oh yes. Before you're done with her, this dick-kitten's going to blow the biggest load of her life all over the room.
"I'll take that as a promise!" Kas snickers, giving Cait a little push back and spreading the kitty's pale thighs. "Be rough with me, my Champion. Conquer this body as if it were my heart." -From the Solo Kas/Katherine scene in Cait's temple.
My entire thought process is that Champ is thinking to himself/herself what they'll do to her on the first line but she replies then in the second line, next the Champ is clearly speaking to her in the third line but there's no "' to highlight this so you have to be using context and common sense to follow scenes, not to mention its supposed to be a solo scene but Cait is still mentioned.
Observer's content is really good imo but its stuff like this that pulls me out because it happens often and its inconsistent, so sometime you see this quirk pop up in their writing and others their doing things the standard way.
 

Melancholy Man

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As Antler said, people will usually keep this hidden behind spoilers, on account of it being a massive bit of lore.
Aside from that:
They're not really tentacle monsters. Like, originally, they were wraiths, which are "beings of formless entropy," which isn't really a tentacle thing. But even aside from that, that's more of what they were. They, perhaps, technically still are, but they've been given physical form and the ability to feel emotions, and have pretty much fully taken on the persona of the gods they emulated that they think of themselves as those gods. They're not horrible monsters in disguise, and despite their origins, they are, for all practical purposes, no longer wraiths.
I get what you are trying to say that their nice ppl now but you have to undertand the is significance of this info is lost if the character is forced to be all accepting, there has to be at the very least moments where PC has to mentally grapple with the fact that they ate ppl inorder to become a person. We meet an unformed wraith at the end of the Ice Palace and a wraith in the middle of feeding in the Valkyrie side quest. We know how deceptive and hungry wraiths are, how do we know that the Gods aren't acting to keep the cattle sated?
Let's say you meet someone and you hit it off with them, you both grown close and they tell you that they had to kill ppl in order to get to your side of the country; how would you react?
Even if at the end of the day the writers choose to make them all shroud goodguys, playing up that plot point and drama up is necessary, the fact the PC doesn't acknowledged this feels either forced or negligent.
 

Melancholy Man

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These are already accounted for, either with specific Powers (Banishment behaves differently against Ethereal and Construct enemies) or because the elemental weaknesses of particular enemy types are specifically targeted. There's a reason that the Beast Killer bow does Blight damage: It's targeting that taxon's -75 Blight Resist stat.
those are very niche options but I get that your saying it's acknowledged to an extent but Like I said negligible at best, I waltz through the game without knowing they existed till the Wiki, that should not be the case.

Repeatable Corruption-reducing mechanisms are designed to be fairly low because it's meant to be easier to gain the stuff than to lose it. It's spelled out right in the game's primary design doc. The big exception is the Cloister and that requires both Winterstem and a whole bunch of in-game time to balance things out.
I'd agree with you if any of that mattered; time doesn't matter because there is no pressure on the player; those ingredients and requirements aren't too hard to get for the cloister, and Zo is a far better and less clunky way to reduce corruption. The only reason I choose 1-3 rng is because gambling keeps ppl hooked and rolling for 3s would keep her meditation relevant while not making the others redundant.

The game is designed to not have a gear treadmill, so making any weapon that's extremely overpowered (and giving one weapon the ability to grant multiple possible buffs most certainly would be) would either make that weapon game-breakingly powerful or it would require every future encounter to be balanced around it, penalizing players who don't use Ashe. Either way would be an incredible amount of work because one person didn't think a weapon that already is very good, unlocks multiple types of sex scenes and gets special lines on crits isn't Super Speshul enough already.
I gave options not like I want her to have them all; one offensive buff and one defensive buff (you give it or you take it ;p, Ludo-narrative harmony), if they want balance they can tweak the numbers and make them hr based so the player has to reapply that buff if they want it. The multiple sex scenes thing is not unique and not a draw in itself, we the pc are flushed for choices in that regard and the only draw is that she livens up combat with crit comments, thats why incentives are necessary to keep her scenes relevant.

This sounds like a fascinating idea... for a game where the focus is all on the combat and not on trying to find a nice middle ground between 'Smutty text adventure where you're just selecting options' and 'Fucking end this fight already, I've been stuck fighting these mobs for half an hour!'.

Also, damage over time already has a very significant use: Bypassing shield HP. If you inflict an enemy with Burning, Poisoned or the like, the damage those do is applied directly to health instead of having to work through any shield effect that the enemy has. It doesn't need a dozen edge case combination effects to be useful.
Tbh I'm hoping for more enemies that aren't just walking fap material. The wolves that attack in the Old Forest were so refreshing for me; the fact that there are npcs, lore, and stories that talk about how unruly or wild and dangerous the world is you never get that feeling because everything just wants to fuck you. The difference between this and say Monstergirl Quest is that at least they kill off the characters and have bad ends and scenarios where ppl die or vividly describe when the characters get viciously stomped out or deliver a stomping.
 

MarcoPolo121

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I see what your saying but it's not like the characters themselves have, any real say. The people that use Harley as click bait. Deserve your anger not Harley herself but, still you bring up a good point. "Hey look everyone at this new comic book. With all these characters and if your still not satisfied, we'll throw in Harley Quinn as a bonus. So act now".

But like you said moving on, this a Forum for gripes. With CoC 2 not DC or Marvel so back to that.
I see what you're saying. It just irks me is all.
I get what you are trying to say that their nice ppl now but you have to undertand the is significance of this info is lost if the character is forced to be all accepting, there has to be at the very least moments where PC has to mentally grapple with the fact that they ate ppl inorder to become a person. We meet an unformed wraith at the end of the Ice Palace and a wraith in the middle of feeding in the Valkyrie side quest. We know how deceptive and hungry wraiths are, how do we know that the Gods aren't acting to keep the cattle sated?
Let's say you meet someone and you hit it off with them, you both grown close and they tell you that they had to kill ppl in order to get to your side of the country; how would you react?
Even if at the end of the day the writers choose to make them all shroud goodguys, playing up that plot point and drama up is necessary, the fact the PC doesn't acknowledged this feels either forced or negligent.
This is a fair line of questioning. But there's a fairly simple explanation.

You know the Gods are on the level because this isn't a story about antitheism or Devil sympathy. This isn't Asura's Wrath or Shin Megami Tensei, where they allow people to operate from the position that "Hey maybe God is wrong and we should fight against Him," or "Hey maybe the Devil has the right idea and we should work with him," or even, "Hey maybe God & His Angels and the Devil and his Demons both suck, and we should strive to create a world free of both of them." The closest they come to any kind of "Worshipping the Seven is bad, actually," sentiment is the Ice Elf Druids who complained that the Winter City and other surviving territories converted to Lumian worship after feeling the Old Wyld had failed them and in the aftermath, the Queen and her Royal Harem became estranged and ultimately died with broken hearts and lingering regrets. Even then it's a morally grey situation and Lumia even says "My bad" when Ryn asks her about it. I guess there's room to discuss Keros transforming Komari into a yasha and her centuries-long suffering, but even that wasn't cruelty for its own sake and carried at least the promise of death once she truly atoned for her failure.

There's also the fact that Kasyrra's arrival and transformation of people into demons and monsters is treated as an unambiguously bad thing, even to people like Alissa who are arguably demons already. Compared to Asura's Wrath or Shin Megami Tensei, this view of the Gods in the setting is very charitable, even with the ex-Squid Monster backstory. If they wanted to they could have gone in a very different direction where the Gods were the antagonists and Kasyrra was a hero for trying to stop them. The fact they didn't do that is something I take as a cue to not question it too much.
 

SomeNobody

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To be entirely frank the 'gods' of CoC2 are a bunch of wanked out sues compared to how gods were portrayed in the previous game (and will be portrayed in comparison to the favoured new DM's holy OCs if things were to continue as was originally planned in the design documents, being a loser jobber antagonist that gets his power absorbed by the Kitsune).

The previous Gods of CoC1 could be corrupted and overcome by the actions of the demon hordes, the new ones are not only literal and figurative sex gods but aware of everything and could individually all destroy Kas and her army with a single pinkie like they were characters from DBZ but just... don't. They (and the wraiths by extension) have story-breaking levels of power for no real reason except perhaps the head Dev is such a big fan of D&D and writes his 'gods' accordingly.
People behind this game have long claimed that it isn't a power fantasy for the player character as an answer to various situations, and that seems mostly true, its more often a power fantasy of the developers or individual writers and their concepts.
 
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Hey maybe God & His Angels and the Devil and his Demons both suck,
The problem is that writer intent doesn't actually quite match up with the end product here, leading to a world that is largely extremely dark grey versus black morality.

Like I don't know why I need to keep saying this, but letting a demonic rape cult consume large swathes of your world is fucking terrible, and the most charitable interpretation is that they are letting it happen because they think it will give them insight on how to restore the surviving wraithtouched. Considering how much time has passed since the big silly god war, and how quick some of the sentient races are at breeding, it's a safe bet to assume that the world's current populace is well past the amount of wraithtouched that managed to not be killed off in the war or hunted down in recent times.

So they're operating fully on the Needs of the Few outweigh the Needs of the Many in a best case scenario here, which is utterly ridiculous given that the worst off victims of being wraith touched are effectively lobotomized already, versus the active physical, spiritual and mental anguish the gods are allowing to befall on those they've deceived into worshipping them(which no matter what will always be an ethically questionable thing to do, even with the best intentions).

Both sides DO suck when you take the time to think about it for five seconds.

and will be portrayed in comparison to the favoured new DM's holy OCs if things were to continue as was originally planned in the design documents, being a loser jobber that gets his power absorbed by the Kitsune

Is that going to be an actual thing? Figured we'd just banish them to be at least somewhat respectful to the original game, that's kinda shitty if true.

Also could you throw a spoiler over your post please?
 
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Tide Hunter

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I get what you are trying to say that their nice ppl now but you have to undertand the is significance of this info is lost if the character is forced to be all accepting, there has to be at the very least moments where PC has to mentally grapple with the fact that they ate ppl inorder to become a person. We meet an unformed wraith at the end of the Ice Palace and a wraith in the middle of feeding in the Valkyrie side quest. We know how deceptive and hungry wraiths are, how do we know that the Gods aren't acting to keep the cattle sated?
Let's say you meet someone and you hit it off with them, you both grown close and they tell you that they had to kill ppl in order to get to your side of the country; how would you react?
Even if at the end of the day the writers choose to make them all shroud goodguys, playing up that plot point and drama up is necessary, the fact the PC doesn't acknowledged this feels either forced or negligent.
These things you're bringing up were brought up in the Convocation of Mirrors. I should know, considering I've done it half a dozen times already. The Champ is very disturbed by it as the information is being revealed, but it can be assumed that they have a conclusion similar to Phyria's: As wraiths, they were driven by an unending hunger. Alongside that, it's shown pretty clearly that the gods, or at least Nareva, feel a shit-ton of regret for their actions as wraiths, and their taking up the mantle of gods was to try to make amends to the societies of the people they consumed.

As for the "deceptive" stuff, it's also described how the reason for the wraith's hunger is that they are voids. They completely lack emotions, but can experience them through consuming people's souls. When the gods ascended from this void state, they lost the reason for eating souls, since they gained emotions, and gained reasons to not eat souls, that being regret. Can we trust the things revealed 100%? Maybe not, but given the context of the conversation, I think that these things should be taken as factual.
 

WolframL

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Like I don't know why I need to keep saying this, but letting a demonic rape cult consume large swathes of your world is fucking terrible, and the most charitable interpretation is that they are letting it happen because they think it will give them insight on how to restore the surviving wraithtouched. Considering how much time has passed since the big silly god war, and how quick some of the sentient races are at breeding, it's a safe bet to assume that the world's current populace is well past the amount of wraithtouched that managed to not be killed off in the war or hunted down in recent times.
Maybe you should pay more attention to the text then, instead of skimming over it while looking for more things to back up your preconceived notion of what's going on...
The Seven are preparing their followers for an anti-Kas crusade but these things take time and if you have even a shred of knowledge of historical campaigns you'll understand that trying to launch one piecemeal is a recipe for disaster. While they're building up their forces to do it properly, the Seven are also hoping that you might be able to solve the problem with less bloodshed.

And no, the world has not recovered enough to not have to worry about the wraithtouched. Practically every time someone discusses the old heartland it's made clear that it's dangerous and the reason most of the paladin orders are down there is because that's where they need to be. The valkyries spend most of their free time attempting to stem the tide of the wraithtouched, who are also capable of replenishing their numbers and Anni specifically mentions that the population isn't increasing fast enough to provide the surplus needed to reclaim and hold territory against the wraithtouched. So no, the Seven really can't afford to send everything against Kas right now and need time to prepare for an offensive.
 

Resawar

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The gods seem to just be following the standard let the hero's, adventurers, amassed followers handle it mentality of godly beings which makes sense, if they fixed every problem then people would expect it from them like is said by one of the god ingame which I think is Keros but I might be wrong. Also how much of the Gods dialog of them talking about being wraithy and of what they do and how they work have you read, all of it or just some?

Also thought it has no effect on the game world I thought it would be fun to give you the knowledge that Savin's own D&D world has his gods being false in their own power base by drawing their powers from eldritch corpses on the moon which also houses the afterlife known as the Dream.
 

Melancholy Man

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These things you're bringing up were brought up in the Convocation of Mirrors. I should know, considering I've done it half a dozen times already. The Champ is very disturbed by it as the information is being revealed, but it can be assumed that they have a conclusion similar to Phyria's: As wraiths, they were driven by an unending hunger. Alongside that, it's shown pretty clearly that the gods, or at least Nareva, feel a shit-ton of regret for their actions as wraiths, and their taking up the mantle of gods was to try to make amends to the societies of the people they consumed.

As for the "deceptive" stuff, it's also described how the reason for the wraith's hunger is that they are voids. They completely lack emotions, but can experience them through consuming people's souls. When the gods ascended from this void state, they lost the reason for eating souls, since they gained emotions, and gained reasons to not eat souls, that being regret. Can we trust the things revealed 100%? Maybe not, but given the context of the conversation, I think that these things should be taken as factual.
"but it can be assumed" that right there is what I hate the most, why is my character being forced into accepting and agreeing to another's thought process? Because its convenient for the writers. This revelation should've been saved for the mid to late game and not achievable at lvl 3, because thats Phyria's pov on the topic and there are clear branches of thought that can come from that situation: 1. Are they trustworthy? 2. Do they know that you know or has sexy-snake kept it to herself? 3. Do they still know how to use souls and can it be taught or acquired?
 

Melancholy Man

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I see what you're saying. It just irks me is all.

This is a fair line of questioning. But there's a fairly simple explanation.

You know the Gods are on the level because this isn't a story about antitheism or Devil sympathy. This isn't Asura's Wrath or Shin Megami Tensei, where they allow people to operate from the position that "Hey maybe God is wrong and we should fight against Him," or "Hey maybe the Devil has the right idea and we should work with him," or even, "Hey maybe God & His Angels and the Devil and his Demons both suck, and we should strive to create a world free of both of them." The closest they come to any kind of "Worshipping the Seven is bad, actually," sentiment is the Ice Elf Druids who complained that the Winter City and other surviving territories converted to Lumian worship after feeling the Old Wyld had failed them and in the aftermath, the Queen and her Royal Harem became estranged and ultimately died with broken hearts and lingering regrets. Even then it's a morally grey situation and Lumia even says "My bad" when Ryn asks her about it. I guess there's room to discuss Keros transforming Komari into a yasha and her centuries-long suffering, but even that wasn't cruelty for its own sake and carried at least the promise of death once she truly atoned for her failure.

There's also the fact that Kasyrra's arrival and transformation of people into demons and monsters is treated as an unambiguously bad thing, even to people like Alissa who are arguably demons already. Compared to Asura's Wrath or Shin Megami Tensei, this view of the Gods in the setting is very charitable, even with the ex-Squid Monster backstory. If they wanted to they could have gone in a very different direction where the Gods were the antagonists and Kasyrra was a hero for trying to stop them. The fact they didn't do that is something I take as a cue to not question it too much.
There doesn't have to be extremes tho, the Gods can be Good guys but shady and Kas can still do reasonable stuff without the hero worship, the point I'm making is that it's a big deal and its being treated as trivial info when the games and media that make, popularize, use this trope do it to greater effect. Just brushing it off is not the way to deal with it; its something the Protag needs to grapple with, especially since almost every scene has ppl screaming the name of their god.
 

mallowmarsh

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My friends and I have been talking about the annoyance we have when it comes to some of the pc's dialogue and how it tends to infer how the player has been playing interaction wise. One friend in particular doesn't like how the game automatically assumes that she's ready to jump in all her companions' pants when she wants to build a storyline with her customizable pc to maybe possibly center around one romance storyline.

Basically like in a game with heavy customization, having the pc's personality and how they interact with characters shouldn't be predetermined. What's the point of being able to choose race and hair color and eye color and height and body type if it's the same person when you get down to playing.

Idk I don't personally think a female elf hunter would react the same way as a cat boy who is a part of a sex religion.
 

WolframL

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Because as a matter of writer convenience, the Champion is not you but a character you just happen to have a huge amount of control over. Think the Avatar from the Ultima series, but with more dialogue and more Horni. They're canonically pansexual because it's so much easier for the writers to assume that the Champ is attracted to every potential sex partner without having to write a zillion parsers to track what you've done plus checks for your starting/current race and your background, for every scene, to see whether or not your Champ 'should' be reacting in a particular way.

There are some checks that could use tweaking like Brint going from buddy to hazubando in one night of sex and Ryn's high-Con scene is something that they've talked about changing so it's gated behind having sex at least once (at which point it can be assumed the Champ's feelings match the scene) but anything more extensive by way of trying to track player preference just isn't a realistic option.
 
Maybe you should pay more attention to the text then, instead of skimming over it while looking for more things to back up your preconceived notion of what's going on...
The Seven are preparing their followers for an anti-Kas crusade but these things take time and if you have even a shred of knowledge of historical campaigns you'll understand that trying to launch one piecemeal is a recipe for disaster. While they're building up their forces to do it properly, the Seven are also hoping that you might be able to solve the problem with less bloodshed.

And no, the world has not recovered enough to not have to worry about the wraithtouched. Practically every time someone discusses the old heartland it's made clear that it's dangerous and the reason most of the paladin orders are down there is because that's where they need to be. The valkyries spend most of their free time attempting to stem the tide of the wraithtouched, who are also capable of replenishing their numbers and Anni specifically mentions that the population isn't increasing fast enough to provide the surplus needed to reclaim and hold territory against the wraithtouched.
Given how much weight you put on Word of God rather then the actual in-game content and what it amounts to, I'd be rather surprised if you did more reading then I to be perfectly honest with you.

There is literally zero need for an actual war effort if their goal is to wipe out Kas? You know what it would take? One of these seven fucks with their occasionally reality defying power to do a fraction of to her what a weakened Lumia(who was weakened due to the influence of another wraith whom she refued to kill until it had weakened her enough that that was no longer an option) can pull off on an honest-to-god wraith if you go the Kas Romance path in winter city. Mallach and Keros both display the ability to instantly travel across the material plane without needing access to any form of conventional Ways access, they're all well and above supernaturally physically powerful, to the point that whereas even Kas can be at miniscule risk of being battered in the Winter City fight(you're not supposed to win, but there's presumably a reason it's an actual fight instead of just text screaming CHAMPION GOT LAID THE FUCK OUT), smut scenes with Keros make it abundantly clear you'd be hopelessly outclassed no matter how strong you get.

They possess the means to kill her, killing her shoves a huge wrench in the gears for the demon cult since whilst Tollus kept things more organized, so they should probably just kill her. Kas is the major galvanizing force that turns them into a major threat in the present day, the figure head more and more flock to. Kill her and some join back up with the cueball whilst the rest scatter, and then tracking down and killing Tollus can be soundly left in mortal hands with a reasonable expectation of possible success.

That first part is such a mind numbingly irrational argument that I admire your willingness to even offer it up in the first place.

And I never said the wraithtouched aren't a problem, but their numbers likely are depleted in regards to non corrupted life, whom they presumably need to prey upon in order to restock their own ranks, otherwise they're producing basically super imps in that they're naturally soulless shits and thus are morally justifiable to murder according to the devs, since Imps are fully sentient and yet no one bats an eye and stomping them. If the latter is the case, then no, you still don't need to worry about soul restoration, since the actual populace that needs their souls restored within the Wraith-touched ranks is still incredibly small in numbers if we're going by realistic expectations here.

Now insult me over not reading and then respond to this in a way that makes it clear you did not read half of it again.
 

SomeNobody

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Dec 18, 2020
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The bigger problem with them leaving Kas alone is that she goes around opening portals, portals that can cause more wraiths to pour in (and literally does bring a void beastie in that the champion and Kas together can't even put a scratch on in the story path mentioned above), which elevates things above a 'mortal' concern.

If Kas was just going around raping people into more demons that would be one thing, but her antics could literally cause a second incursion by the oh so scary wraiths themselves which should be the primary concern for the seven. And they clearly possess the ability to snuff the demon queen out with no effort on their part so why wouldn't they do so instead of messing around and having sex scenes with the player champion.
 
The bigger problem with them leaving Kas alone is that she goes around opening portals, portals which can cause more wraiths to pour in (and literally does bring a void beastie in that the champion and Kas together can't beat in the story path mentioned above), which elevates things above a 'mortal' concern.
I've mentioned that before on here but was ignored, good to know someone else is actually raising an eyebrow at it.
 

WolframL

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Feb 12, 2020
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Given how much weight you put on Word of God rather then the actual in-game content and what it amounts to, I'd be rather surprised if you did more reading then I to be perfectly honest with you.
Yes, forgive me for making the clearly foolish assumption that what the creators of the game have to say might be relevant to interpreting the game, especially since the game is still incomplete so whatever they say might just indicate what sort of things will be implemented at some future date...
There is literally zero need for an actual war effort if their goal is to wipe out Kas? You know what it would take? One of these seven fucks with their occasionally reality defying power to do a fraction of to her...
The Doylist reason they don't do this is that then there wouldn't be a game if the gods could solve all your problems for you with a wave of their divine hands. Garde has been quite clear on this, though there are plans to get into the specifics of why this doesn't happen if you insist on a Watsonian explanation.
And I never said the wraithtouched aren't a problem, but their numbers likely are depleted in regards to non corrupted life, whom they presumably need to prey upon in order to restock their own ranks, otherwise they're producing basically super imps in that they're naturally soulless shits and thus are morally justifiable to murder according to the devs, since Imps are fully sentient and yet no one bats an eye and stomping them.
Their numbers are enough that divinely empowered warriors have been devoting their full attention on them for decades and are losing because again, the non-wraithtouched population isn't growing fast enough to hold new ground even when they manage to briefly take it. What the Champ can potentially do has already helped shift the balance back in favor of Team Good Guys but it doesn't mean these things aren't a serious problem that has been occupying a lot of time and resources for the past few centuries.
 

Resawar

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Sep 21, 2018
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The fact that Wolfram still is willing to argue with people I find amazing, no matter how many good things the gods do nor how much they repent people who want to see the gods burn for what they did will always want them punished there is no way to argue someone out of that position due to the fact that it's indicative with how people see justice in real life in a western context, no repent nor action can fix what crime they did just punishment and for the gods that's the ability to kill, destabilize, corrupt, dethrone or do something else to negatively effect them nothing else with satisfy the punishment they seek.

It's also amazing how much malevolence we ascribe to the wraith which the game reads to me as describing them as clever predators but no more then animals then when they obtain a moral compass, morality, or what ever gave them some sense of intelligence other then hunger we still cast judgement on them as if they always had it to begin with. It's like taking a cat that rips and shreds mice daily giving it a conscience and then casting our morality upon it for the action it did while being something lesser no more then an animal.

The fact that we have to address the reason for the plot and give context to the point of the game existing speak for itself with how far some arguments people are willing to take to just stoke their hatred for the gods, how else would the game exist without the gods giving us the ability to fight Kas. What game is 100% better if the game just hand waves away all the problems with the setting by just saying the gods fixed it that would ruin 90% of games, everybody should know that just because the gods are there in a setting does not mean we can lob criticism at the game devs due to not have them fix it all and don't we all rail on games and other media for having deus ex machina's like Gods fixing all the problems.
 

SomeNobody

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Dec 18, 2020
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Or maybe the real problems come about with the form the gods of coc2 take that it renders them a destabilising plot cancer that get to soak up far too much spotlight personally interacting with the player character and doing things for the seven to ignore ongoing events.

Its really less a question of morality and more the fact the way they are written into the story is flawed, which in particular is brought into sharp focus when compared to how similar cosmological matters were handled in the game this is a sequel to.
 
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Melancholy Man

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Mar 23, 2023
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Greenhills
The Doylist reason they don't do this is that then there wouldn't be a game if the gods could solve all your problems for you with a wave of their divine hands. Garde has been quite clear on this, though there are plans to get into the specifics of why this doesn't happen if you insist on a Watsonian explanation.
The most Bs reasoning I've seen in while :gedlaugh:
Its makes the writers look disorganized and the Gods look even more like sh*t
 
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