Your gripes with CoC II

[r4d6]

I am not sure if it was mentioned before, but a way to get unique items back after selling them.

Mostly because I sold Hethia's Whitewood Bow because I didn't know there was content locked behind returning it. Or that returning it was a possibility at the time.

Heck, I don't think any of the other unique items have stuff related to not selling them. Yeah they're unique and you aren't getting them back if you sell them, but there isn't any other drawback related to selling such unique items.
So if you play through the game with, say, a melee build, and get the unique whitewood bow, you aren't gonna think that there is any actual content locked behind that bow, since none of the others had, and the really important stuff tend to have the Unsellable and maybe Undroppable keywords.

So if you sell the bow, which doesn't look any different from all the other unique items, you don't see any drawback until hours or days of gameplay later, where you get the possibility of returning the bow, and the game literally tells you 'If you sold it, too bad for you, get fucked.' which is annoying.

 

[Shrike675]

I...you literally get warned you're about to sell a unique item. Did you just ignore that too?

 

[r4d6]

I...you literally get warned you're about to sell a unique item. Did you just ignore that too?

I mean, I get the whole 'sell a unique item and you can't get it back' thing.

It's just that I can't remember any other unique item that is needed after you get that isn't also unsellable.
Literally every other unique item do not lock you out of content if you sell them, and you can't sell or drop the unique items that would lock you out of content if you got rid of them.

 

[Shrike675]

That's not entirely true, you can also return elthara's scythe, though all you get is a thank you and some corruption reduction. Also, returning the bow only really makes hethia not mad at you, that's about it.

 

[Grainy]

I never liked the overuse of repeating one word or phrase twice consecutively for emphasis, and it seems like a character quirk the champion has while speaking. Not sure if others even notice it.

 

[arch99]

r4d6 has a point here, I know Sav and co have explicitly said that they don't want players hoarding all unique items (I am anyway, but), and they want us to just sell the not useful ones - that feels contradictory to some of them having further tie-ins to story, even if it's just little things, for not selling them. I think it makes a lot of sense to have a secondary tag applied to unique items that are still sellable but unlock any story things, like "story-linked" - that, or just give the bow and the scythe the unsellable undroppable tags. It just feels bad to lock yourself out of content, and if the game's explicitly attached to the idea that the player shouldn't be hoarding items, getting punished for doing that incentivizes the exact opposite behavior.

 

[Resawar]

The game could always do what Morrowind did and have a museum to sell artifacts to or a collector of artifacts and rare items. They could also do something like Legacy of the Dragonborn and make a tile in the Wayfort the lord/lady's museum, it could also generate a small bit of income or have it be free to the public though that would still be technically hoarding.

 

[zagzig]

I think the main thing with Hethia is that post-Palace of Ice, no content is actually lost if Hethia is mad at you. All her sex scenes are still there, as are her talks, and any quest involvement. You can even dance with her at the Winter Ball.

(Also with Hethia's... unique temperament, there's often not a significant difference between angry Hethia and friendly Hethia)

 

[arch99]

I think the main thing with Hethia is that post-Palace of Ice, no content is actually lost if Hethia is mad at you. All her sex scenes are still there, as are her talks, and any quest involvement. You can even dance with her at the Winter Ball.

(Also with Hethia's... unique temperament, there's often not a significant difference between angry Hethia and friendly Hethia)

I think the issue is much more "people want to get to do everything" than specific things they want from getting to do it - it just feels bad to be locked out of content.

 

[zagzig]

I think the issue is much more "people want to get to do everything" than specific things they want from getting to do it - it just feels bad to be locked out of content.

I'm not sure I understand? You're not locked out of content, at least not any more than you're locked out of content for never taking the bow in the first place.

 

[WolframL]

I think the issue is much more "people want to get to do everything" than specific things they want from getting to do it - it just feels bad to be locked out of content.

You cannot do everything though, no matter how you play. There are one-off scenes that can only be done if you have the right genitals, or the right level of Corruption, or the right companion(s) with you, or the right stats, Background or both. There are mutually exclusive choices everywhere you look. No possible Champ can see all the content on a single run.

You have the choice to take or not take the bow depending on how you resolve Dog Days, you have the choice to sell the bow even though the game asks you if you're really really sure first. Hand-holding to the extent of warning players that they might miss out on some fluff content if they make these particular decisions after already getting one warning is hand-holding to the extent that the devs have been pretty clear isn't of interest to them, particularly as they've been very clear that hoarding all the Unique items is something they don't want to encourage.

 

[r4d6]

You cannot do everything though, no matter how you play. There are one-off scenes that can only be done if you have the right genitals, or the right level of Corruption, or the right companion(s) with you, or the right stats, Background or both. There are mutually exclusive choices everywhere you look. No possible Champ can see all the content on a single run.

But those aren't mutually exclusive though?
You can change your Corruption Levels, your current companions, your genital & stats.
The only really exclusive stuff is from the Background.

 

[Tide Hunter]

You cannot do everything though, no matter how you play. There are one-off scenes that can only be done if you have the right genitals, or the right level of Corruption, or the right companion(s) with you, or the right stats, Background or both. There are mutually exclusive choices everywhere you look. No possible Champ can see all the content on a single run.

As r4d6 says, most of those factors are mutable. Sure, if you lack the requirements for something, you won't see it, but when you become aware of it, you can change those aspects of your character through various means. However, you can't unsell the bow. And you're also unlikely to have a save for when you still had the bow, plus that would undo a ton of progress, whereas when a quest you have a save right before doing has variations, it's much easier to load up that save, go off and tf, and then come back with the modifications.

 

[arch99]

You cannot do everything though, no matter how you play. There are one-off scenes that can only be done if you have the right genitals, or the right level of Corruption, or the right companion(s) with you, or the right stats, Background or both. There are mutually exclusive choices everywhere you look. No possible Champ can see all the content on a single run.

You have the choice to take or not take the bow depending on how you resolve Dog Days, you have the choice to sell the bow even though the game asks you if you're really really sure first. Hand-holding to the extent of warning players that they might miss out on some fluff content if they make these particular decisions after already getting one warning is hand-holding to the extent that the devs have been pretty clear isn't of interest to them, particularly as they've been very clear that hoarding all the Unique items is something they don't want to encourage.

If they don't want you to hoard the unique items, then don't lock you into game-states dependent on having unique items, is exactly the point I'm making. Obviously you can't do everything, but if someone wants their file to have Hethia friendly with them, then selling the bow, which is the type of behavior Sav and co explicitly want to encourage, not hoarding, locks them out of being able to have Hethia friendly with them. Your decision to describe this as "hand-holding" is frankly just weird as fuck - proper signposting is one of the hallmarks of these games and the ways that they keep player satisfaction fairly high, warning players when doing something will have consequences that are not immediately evident. And it's not like it's immediately evident to a new player that selling Hethia's bow, a reward from a one-off encounter from the start of the game, means that 4-6 levels and potentially dozens of hours later they won't be able to have Hethia less mad at them. Even if that doesn't have a big game impact!!

If Sav and co want less item hoarding, then don't make it as easy for people to lose access to things by not hoarding. That simple.

 

[WolframL]

Granted, a lot of those factors are mutable though you still can't see it all on one run without save scumming, which was my main point. This is not a game where you can do 100% completion on a straight-line progression from beginning to end and it never has been. You're going to miss content no matter what and there's only so much hand-holding that's reasonable. Consider the following cases of much more substantial content-gating that the devs did not think needed explicit warnings:

Whether you have Brint or Brienne is perhaps the most obvious example, and that's really substantial content. The devs didn't feel the need to explicitly lay out what the implications for future content were going to be prior to making that choice, even though. it almost completely changes the interactions the character has with everybody, has mutually exclusive gear sets and basically has a whole lot of content-gating whichever way you go. Yes, we know the implications because they've been in the game for a long time but the game does not lay out for you exactly what you're opting in to/out of.

Or for another example, deciding to push Azzy and Lia into the corrupted honey because you felt like being Stupid Evil and then you realize later that you've enfuckened yourself for the Dawnsword quest and can't see a huge chunk of content unless you unwind your run. The game doesn't explicitly warn you about that either, it just warns you that you can't undo this. Y'know, like the warning you already get when you try to sell something Unique.

For a lesser example, sex before encountering Evelyn can permanently lock you out of her scenes that check for the Champ's v-cards. Should the devs include a warning before every possible sex scene that you might lock yourself out of future content by having sex prior to meeting a character you haven't even encountered yet?

Yes, I recognize that I'm veering towards a slippery slope argument here, but given the amount of things you can already lock yourself out of in a single run (or which require forked saves to handle) that are far more substantial than some minor dialogue changes for Hethia and which the game doesn't explicitly hold your hand and warn you about, I'm not sure that adding warnings that a given item might have content down the line is really a good use of time, especially since the perennial example of the Hornet Ring demonstrates that many players don't read warnings in the first place.

 

[Ria Brew]

I think what they're getting at here is more that there's a conflict between what the devs are saying they want players to do and what the game is encouraging them to do. Devs don't want item hording but including contextual content(even if it doesn't change anything for the overall game state) by hording some items clashes with that, especially when you consider that players who don't use the wiki or engage in the community may assume that there will be other instances where holding onto all your unique will lead to something.

That's the argument I'm taking from this at least. I don't have any strong feelings either way.

 

[arch99]

I think what they're getting at here is more that there's a conflict between what the devs are saying they want players to do and what the game is encouraging them to do. Devs don't want item hording but including contextual content(even if it doesn't change anything for the overall game state) by hording some items clashes with that, especially when you consider that players who don't use the wiki or engage in the community may assume that there will be other instances where holding onto all your unique will lead to something.

That's the argument I'm taking from this at least. I don't have any strong feelings either way.

You've got it on the nose. I don't think it's a big deal, I just think it's shooting themselves in the foot from the devs, they've spoken rather aggressively on why they don't want players hoarding items, but little things like this that r4d6 dealt with are going to push players into doing that. That's all I'll say on the matter, and that's all I intend to say.

 

[Jorr The Great]

Imagine that you want to sell the Bessy Mauler but you see that Hetia scene, when I wanted to sell the crossbow I would think "but if in the future there is a tank/ranged set for brint that is unlocked with it?". I guess that's the main complaint, you don't know when something will be useful to you later and it happens even with normal items, I sold the winter stems that I would need for missions later, now to farm again.

 

[WolframL]

Okay, looking at it from that angle, that's fair. I'm not sure how much you can do about it since a lot of things are done retroactively (like giving Elthara her scythe back, which was added eight months after the fact) but as an argument about incentivizing hoarding behavior, I concede the point.

 

[heykrow]

I feel like Resolve should not be removed from the game I just think it can apply status affects to your character and not like a another health bar just its own thing like if you had 20% resolve your attack chance and your mental resistance gets reduced seems unnecessary to me to remove it.

 

[WolframL]

I feel like Resolve should not be removed from the game I just think it can apply status affects to your character and not like a another health bar just its own thing

One of the things its removal did was streamline combat by removing what amounts to a second health meter and integrating the two systems into one. Don't hold your breath on the devs pulling a 180 and deciding to not just add it back but make combat even more complex by turning it into some sort of sliding stat multiplier that you need to manage.

 

[The Observer]

Fall of Eden did a thing where you would randomly lose your turn if your lust maxed out.

It was, simply put, silly and added little if anything of value.

 

[auto-gg]

Kind of a personal gripe, but the way kitsune are treated in lieu of the japanese colonism thing is slightly off-putting.

While i get that it isn’t supposed to be an 1:1 equivalent and that’s it’s perhaps an integral part of their worldbuilding- the atrocities that imperial japan commited are very real, more recent than i’ve seen some people assume ??, and still affect people to this day. I honestly wish the writing team / devs would take that into consideration going forward especially in regards to how they’d treat a prospective pseudo-korea.

Which i’m saying because i’ve seen people talking about future plans to lump chinese mongolian and korean cultures into one nation and/or have pseudo-korea be under pseudo-japan’s foot; just seems to be in bad taste imo

Not saying that the devs need to completely revamp the kitsune or bend over backwards to appease people and be hIsToRiCalLy TaStEfUl; in fact i don’t actually see any real problem with the current floof content as-is - even if it’s iffy to me personally, it’s treated very subjectively - it’s alright ; but the general attitude i’ve seen + the aforementioned future plans are kinda eh and i really hope that it’s handled with respect going forward

 

[Shrike675]

....what.

 

[Acharehnus]

I mean, they're written to be like imperial Japan. People can't be shocked when someone makes the connection, surely?

You write serious stuff and people will treat it that way. It's like the fascist ants in TiTs. Not saying I necessarily agree with everything there but it's not shocking.

 

[luciel1331]

Kind of a personal gripe, but the way kitsune are treated in lieu of the japanese colonism thing is slightly off-putting.

While i get that it isn’t supposed to be an 1:1 equivalent and that’s it’s perhaps an integral part of their worldbuilding- the atrocities that imperial japan commited are very real, more recent than i’ve seen some people assume ??, and still affect people to this day. I honestly wish the writing team / devs would take that into consideration going forward especially in regards to how they’d treat a prospective pseudo-korea.

Which i’m saying because i’ve seen people talking about future plans to lump chinese mongolian and korean cultures into one nation and/or have pseudo-korea be under pseudo-japan’s foot; just seems to be in bad taste imo

Not saying that the devs need to completely revamp the kitsune or bend over backwards to appease people and be hIsToRiCalLy TaStEfUl; in fact i don’t actually see any real problem with the current floof content as-is - even if it’s iffy to me personally, it’s treated very subjectively - it’s alright ; but the general attitude i’ve seen + the aforementioned future plans are kinda eh and i really hope that it’s handled with respect going forward

I get where you're coming from as a Korean myself. It also makes me iffy whenever imperial Japan is used in media considering the horrible stuff Japan did to Korea and other countries during WW2.

But honestly, as long as it remains purely fictional, I don't mind. It's not the 1st time media used the era of imperialism as a reference and even Acharehnus mentioned fascism/Nazis stuff (like doesn't Star Wars empire supposed to mirror the Nazis?). As long as they don't try to reenact the stuff that happened during WW2 (like as you said have pseudo-Korea or something) and tried to defend the Japanese empire or Nazis or some bs and don't actually mirror closely real-life ppl and happenings, it should be fine.

Plus, I don't think that's what Tobs intended at all. I think it was just to add some weeb stuff in this porn game.

 

[pinkcaitgang]

Can I please just have the option of switching to Kasyrra's previous busts here? Clothed Kasyyra just doesn't do it for me and it seems really silly to suddenly take away that option from players. It doesnt even need to be the default.

 

[arch99]

I would love a toggle somewhere in the inventory that switches the ghostlight on/off instead of it requiring a visit to Evergreen - I got the ghostlight in the first place because I don't want my champ to have a dick, and it's annoying when scenes then just start by default acting as if my champ has a dick. Being able to turn that off by default and only flick it on to access the few scenes I'd want to have it for seems much more appealing than having it always on - with the way that it's parsed in sex-scenes as-is, I see very little notable difference between just having it and growing a dick, and it's important to me to not have a dick in this game, so, yeah. I mean, I'd prefer that you can have it and have it on but narration still treats you as not having a dick up until you select a sex scene that involves you having one, but I know that's more work, so just a quick toggle in the inventory or in appearance settings or something would be absolutely great, and shouldn't require almost any rewriting, just a little coding.

 

[Ria Brew]

I would love a toggle somewhere in the inventory that switches the ghostlight on/off instead of it requiring a visit to Evergreen - I got the ghostlight in the first place because I don't want my champ to have a dick, and it's annoying when scenes then just start by default acting as if my champ has a dick. Being able to turn that off by default and only flick it on to access the few scenes I'd want to have it for seems much more appealing than having it always on - with the way that it's parsed in sex-scenes as-is, I see very little notable difference between just having it and growing a dick, and it's important to me to not have a dick in this game, so, yeah. I mean, I'd prefer that you can have it and have it on but narration still treats you as not having a dick up until you select a sex scene that involves you having one, but I know that's more work, so just a quick toggle in the inventory or in appearance settings or something would be absolutely great, and shouldn't require almost any rewriting, just a little coding.

There should already be one under the appearance menu.

 

[arch99]

There should already be one under the appearance menu.

View attachment 27704

Oh my god I didn't realize? god that makes me feel stupid. Since Evergreen had an option to remove it, and I checked inv, I figured it didn't exist. I only mentioned appearance settings here cause I was thinking to myself "maybe that'd make more sense as a place to put it", and I guess I've just never opened my appearance after that. Thank you for the info, and the sorely-needed deflation to my ego I suppose lmao