Your gripes with CoC II

[Animalistic]

A little gripe I had is that we had to ask Brint for his permission if we could fuck his sister. Even as a DK, high corrupt creature oh chaos.
Like, do people do that? I assume that we are adults, and that Brints opinion should not really come into question.

Edit: PS I think it is how it was presented that bothers me more than content surrounding it. Feels that if Brint said no to us advancing on his sister, we would disregard her as sexual partner.

 

[CboyC95]

How long it takes before we continue with the main questline.

 

[calkhi]

There is no actual romance path with Kas. She's just a shell. A McGuffin to advance the story.

Hear me out a sec. What we have in the game now is built on sex, lies, and half truths which are no better than a lie. There is no real open communication with her, nor the ability to just sit down and talk about how the PC is, feels, and thinks. We don't ask her how her day is going, we don't really actually get to know her past from her. From the PC's point, she is an entirely unknown variable that they're either somewhat or diametrically opposed to. We're never given the option in the encounters with her to get to learn about even an inkling of this without submitting to someone who wants to use and abuse us. The rest of the information we glean is questionable at best, outright wrong at worst.
What I fear the most is that her daughters, despite still having their souls, are going to be EXACTLY the same. Even the one who willingly comes to you to get away from her own mother's plans. Even if it's only for a little while.
I feel like we're given two options. Kill her, or submit to her and her plans. I also feel like we're being told that the only correct path is to kill her, submit to her, or die. I don't want to kill someone before giving them the chance to understand my point of view. It all feels incredibly one sided, like I'm being told that I'm wrong for wanting something else. Yet a real relationship is one that is founded on understanding, communication, trust, and just a bit of compromise. Sure, the PC may never be able to get her to become a pure individual, but she should understand that she shouldn't be forcing her own views on her partner. (Or others, for that matter.)
With all the other partners in all the other games, you're given a chance to get to know them from their mouths, get a feel of what they want and like. The nature of the world might lead to a lot of spontaneous sex, sure, but you still get to know them.
Kas? You're expected to love her instantly. To want to love her instantly, but she's just a hollow shell right now. She has no real substance. She doesn't even object to you killing things that might have very well come from her own womb nor does she stop you from messing around with her plans. You have no interaction with her family, and to top it ALL off, she wasn't even SUPPOSED to come through that portal. Nor was she supposed to bring an army though. She's being chased by what is implied to be a void god or at least a powerful void being of lesser standing that easily destroys her entire army. Which we can thus assume is the same result if the portal is closed with her army en-route.
Believe me, I want to love Kas, but I just can't. It's not a matter of compromise, it's a matter of it just feeling utterly wrong from a PC's point of view. Now, it's not so wrong with a "corrupt" PC, but it still feels utterly empty with absolutely no road for redemption in sight.

Of course, that's just how I feel about her right now. All of my opinions could change drastically with the next major story patch with my fears becoming nothing more than paranoid delusions. Yet, with how rail roaded into one side or the other we are, I really don't think this is going to change one bit.

 

[pinkcaitgang]

Isn't it kinda weird that the term "trappy" keeps coming up? Considering how Etheryn is (probably) pretty good trans representation, and the game treats Brienne pretty decently iirc? Like idk but from what I've heard that isn't a respectful term to use and there are easier ones like "feminine"

 

[Kesil]

Fantasy erotica isn't real life. Also, Etheryn isn't trans, as she was always that way: half-sex is a thing when it comes to boreal elves.
Traps aren't trans either: they just simply choose the "dude looks like a lady" appearance. (Note to future readers: this was typed before Berwyn's expansion.)

 

[pinkcaitgang]

Fantasy erotica isn't real life. Also, Etheryn isn't trans, as she was always that way: half-sex is a thing when it comes to boreal elves.

I'm not gonna fight the battle of "fiction affects our perception in the real world" here bc a) that's very obvious and b) that really isn't the point, the point is that if trans people are playing this game (which they likely are), they probably won't love seeing that term. It's just being considerate.

Also ya, regarding Etheryn, I'm aware. She went from being a princeling, as Hethia stated, to being a princess, as Hethia stated. You could say she... swapped gender roles, perhaps even trans'ed them

 

[TheShepard256]

Also ya, regarding Etheryn, I'm aware. She went from being a princeling, as Hethia stated, to being a princess, as Hethia stated. You could say she... swapped gender roles, perhaps even trans'ed them

Hethia calling Ryn a 'princeling' during Dog Days was deliberate misgendering because she wanted to antagonise her. The truth is that Ryn has always identified as a woman, which many half-sexed boreal elves do, so she's technically not transgender (by her people's standards, at least) and has definitely not swapped any gender roles.

 

[Tide Hunter]

She went from being a princeling, as Hethia stated, to being a princess, as Hethia stated.

Hethia's calling Etheryn a princeling wasn't because Ryn was transitioning or something, that was just Hethia being a cunt.

 

[WolframL]

Ryn is naturally intersex, one of about ten percent of the boer'alvar who are born with characteristics of both male and female (hence the term 'half-sexed') and like most of them, she identifies as female. This is stuff you can get out of her Talk scenes and the codex entry. If you're curious how the game code identifies gender you can see it here. Hethia is deliberately being a bitch in that scene and insulting Ryn despite knowing full well that she's half-sexed. There's also a bit of holdover in that scene from the original concept for Ryn, where she was male and was forcibly feminized by Alissa. That didn't survive into Ryn's actual introduction in the game but some early scenes that were written beforehand have echos of it. This is also why Tui's conversation about Ryn has her think that the latter is older than she is when in fact it's the opposite; Tui's more than four times older than Ryn. It simply hasn't been fixed yet.

Also, 'trap' in this context refers to someone who is biologically male, identifies as male and has feminine features. That's not Ryn; in game terms she'd be considered shemale, which also isn't the most polite term but it's what the game uses and since the gender code can't really distinguish between naturally intersex characters and ones who transition, it's kind of what we're stuck with.

 

[pinkcaitgang]

Ah gotcha, thanks for the clarification!

 

[Gennevie]

Follow up question for any of the devs who pop up occasionally in this thread, I'm curious about whether any of the posts we make in here matter.

I don't know if there's a better place to make posts about a feature or tweak to the game, but I'd just like someone to let me know whether the post I made a little while ago about an on/off switch for the "Scene By: X" tag was even noticed. If it was, is it something you'd be willing to do? Is there a reason you wouldn't? Is it just considered too unimportant to be added to someone's "to do" list?
I'd just like to know so I don't need to wonder if I should be looking for opportunities to suggest it elsewhere.

 

[Savin]

I'd just like someone to let me know whether the post I made a little while ago about an on/off switch for the "Scene By: X" tag was even noticed. If it was, is it something you'd be willing to do?

Noticed, and no, we're not willing to do that.

Many people submit their work to the game pro bono; accreditation is the only compensation they ask for, so hiding that would be a disservice to them.

Plus then people would keep pestering the wrong writers about the wrong content. Not that they don't already, but it'd be worse.

 

[Gennevie]

Noticed, and no, we're not willing to do that.

Many people submit their work to the game pro bono; accreditation is the only compensation they ask for, so hiding that would be a disservice to them.

Plus then people would keep pestering the wrong writers about the wrong content. Not that they don't already, but it'd be worse.

Even if it's just an optional on/off switch like it is in TiTS?
I know credits are important and I don't want to remove them, but just having a show/hide button would really make my personal experience better and I think make the game feel more unified than it does.
That shouldn't cause people to pester the wrong writers any more than they do, checking could be as simple as it is to change the artist whose portrait you see. We also don't see the artist's name at all times unless we check the portrait.

I hope you'll reconsider. It bothers me more than it should maybe, but the more I progress in the game the more it starts to get to me.

 

[wery12345]

Considering he already said no and explained why you chose to ignore it so the answer is still no.

 

[Gennevie]

Considering he already said no and explained why you chose to ignore it so the answer is still no.

I don't need you being smug and condescending to me again.

I made my case now and explained my reasoning, if it doesn't happen it doesn't happen. So be it.

 

[MarcoPolo121]

Moving on...

I feel like the words "trap" or "trappy" are a bad choice on the basis of feeding into negative stereotypes about trans people and women especially, i.e. only pretending to be a woman, sexual predators by deception, preying on hetero men specifically etc. I mean that's what the word "trap" refers to, no?

I feel like if you really need multiple descriptive words for someone's nutsack, at least leave them out and replace them with, I dunno, "femmy", "femboy", "subby" at a stretch? I mean it's not perfect by any means but I feel it would at least be more tolerant.

 

[Kesil]

Assuming that someone is submissive just because said someone's looks are feminine or just aims to confuse "hetero men" isn't any better.

 

[MarcoPolo121]

Okay, forget "subby" except for actual submissives or switches in submissive mode. But the point stands it's not best practice.

 

[Kingu2]

I mean that's what the word "trap" refers to, no?

No, Trap is a term referring to feminine looking men not trans women. Nobody really has a problem with the term either as it's not used in a derogatory or harmful way.

 

[TheIrishOtaku]

No, Trap is a term referring to feminine looking men not trans women. Nobody really has a problem with the term either as it's not used in a derogatory or harmful way.

Thank you!

 

[pinkcaitgang]

No, Trap is a term referring to feminine looking men not trans women. Nobody really has a problem with the term either as it's not used in a derogatory or harmful way.

This is just not true. People do have a problem with the term because of its implication. What exactly does the word "trap" mean? It implies that feminine looking men are actively trying to "trap" straight people into thinking they're girls, only to reveal, uh oh, they have a penis. The term started to describe an anime archetype where this exact same thing happens. I'm not a feminine looking man so this isn't my battle, but I really figured the CoC2 community would be a bit more aware of this kind of stuff, considering what exactly happens in ya'll's games.

Edit: In short, it also reduces a feminine looking man down to a single, "evil" purpose.

 

[TheIrishOtaku]

This is just not true. People do have a problem with the term because of its implication. What exactly does the word "trap" mean? It implies that feminine looking men are actively trying to "trap" straight people into thinking they're girls, only to reveal, uh oh, they have a penis. The term started to describe an anime archetype where this exact same thing happens. I'm not a feminine looking man so this isn't my battle, but I really figured the CoC2 community would be a bit more aware of this kind of stuff, considering what exactly happens in ya'll's games.

Edit: In short, it also reduces a feminine looking man down to a single, "evil" purpose.

Honestly, I think you're reading way too much into this. Its not a derogatory term, nor is it implying some nefarious plot on the part of the feminine dude to trick straight guys. In most anime and manga the joke is that the straight guy assumes that the cute boy is actually a girl and that leads to humorous situations. Its not treated as some evil thing, its often very funny and even leads to sweet and romantic situations too. Not to pull the whole ''I have a friend who's x card'' but in this case its called for, one of my dearest friends is male and very feminine and he not only has no problem with the word trap, he actively calls himself one. So clearly not every feminine dude is gonna find this offensive. At this point you're just white knighting and moralising over a non issue.

 

[Bast]

This is just not true.

There are actually more terms in the game that can be interpreted as derogatory. "Bitch" and "Shemale" for example.

But honestly, it would help society a lot if you could find them all and then be offended some more. Thank you for your sacrifice.

 

[Kesil]

It's less about being politically correct and more about catering to certain "mainstream" kinks, which may or may not entail simplification for the sake of quick titillation. Raunchy language is one of them. Being a slut could simply mean showing the world you're accepting of your sexual side. Or being a bitch could refer to having been turned into a lupine and loving every second of it.
I wish I could come up with better terms and spread them across the interwebs, but alas...

P.S. What's with that "straight" stuff? Does it imply that gay/lesbian (for "reverse traps") people have a "trapdar" so that they will somehow see past looks and mannerisms? Because it may not happen if you play a female Champion... in a world in which anyone could sport any kind of genitalia. So no, this is not the place to play the "Ewww penis, gross and homosexual! Not for my waifu!!" Trap Card.

 

[Animalistic]

Still, I feel that trappy, in context or Ryn scene, does feel out of place. Like, what does trappy there refer to? That Ryn ass looks/is as tight as that of a feminine boy? That we are insulting her femininity/her gender identification? I think it is the former but do not quote me on that. SinceI never really seen trappy being used when referring to a dickgirl character.

 

[pinkcaitgang]

I mean, you guys could be right. It's not something that bothers me personally, but it is a perspective I've heard multiple places across the internet. It's also one of my beliefs that the specificity of language is important, which is something I'm sure that erotic writers are very aware of, given their job is to craft sentences while picking whichever word has the most impact.
I also haven't been a part of the anime community for a while, but back when I was, the term trap was not a positive thing in my circles.

And @Kasil, to be honest I don't fully understand your reply. My statement was just working off of the general idea of straight dudes being uncomfortable with being attracted to feminine men, which I believe was the origin of the term.

I just think it's something for the writers to consider, whatever they decide is fine.

 

[Tide Hunter]

Whether the origin of the word was positive or negative, and whatever its meaning was, words are not stagnant, nor do they have only one meaning. In the Oxford dictionary's second edition, the verb "set" had 430 different senses. In some circles, in some situations, trap is an insult. Here, it is never intended as one, even if the use is a bit iffy.

 

[Kesil]

My statement was just working off of the general idea of straight dudes being uncomfortable with being attracted to feminine men, which I believe was the origin of the term.

So general, it felt to me as if you were entertaining the idea of female players/Champions or gay/lesbian traps not existing at all. Or disregarding that transformative items and magic do exist

 

[Oh Philomena]

I do just want to chime in here and say I have heard significant and sincere criticism of the term "trap" in other parts of the internet, so I think the claim that nobody is bothered by it is just categorically not true. But I see its presence in CoC and TiTS mostly as a function of the culture these games come from — online fetish culture, heavily influenced by hentai and furry stuff, where those terms are considered pretty normal. See the consistent use of "futa," "shemale," other stuff like that. They're probably stuff you wouldn't call another person, and they would definitely be pretty unpleasant for me personally to read in a non-porn book or whatever, but they're terms you might input on a porn site to find the type of thing you like.

Because this is a fetish game arising from a particular internet culture and set of influences, I think the use of fetish terms is kind of just about serving the audience and clearly communicating what fetish role a character fills. "Trap" communicates that the character is extremely feminine-looking but "male" in some important sexual sense; "futa" communicates that the character has a dick but is still 100% "woman" in a social/identity sense. The game's about appealing to a particular set of sexual fantasies, most of which focus on characters having and using anatomy that's unusual in some sense.

Which is all to say that I kind of view it as the price of entry and the price of having such well-done and hyper-specific fetish content available. There's weird stuff in the game that is not my cup of tea, there are favored phrases and character archetypes that do nothing for me or put me off, but there's also weird stuff I really really love and favored phrases that might gross somebody else out but do a lot for me. And it all comes from the same root! Weird perverts on the internet!

I try to just vibe with it and ignore the things I don't love, and accept it all as "this is what the game is, and if it weren't the type of game to have this stuff it also wouldn't be the type of game that has stuff you really like."

If that makes sense!

 

[TheIrishOtaku]

I do just want to chime in here and say I have heard significant and sincere criticism of the term "trap" in other parts of the internet, so I think the claim that nobody is bothered by it is just categorically not true.

Yeah a lot of people do criticize it but 9/10 times they don't understand what the term even means or wanna read underhanded intentions behind it. Its honestly stupid. But the topic has been beaten into the ground, so I'll say my peace with that and end it there.