Ah, that explains a lot. Thanks for clearing that up Savin. I was basing it off the item’s description, that states that they were made by the Belharans themselves, which like I mentioned would imply a near-late Middle Ages tech base.
Your gripes with CoC II
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But you still have the captain's greatsword and galons greifmaker the spiral sword and the bessy mauler. All of which were made in Savarra if I'm not mistaken. It should have been impossible to make these with only bronze or iron age tech.
Captain's Greatsword and the Spiral Sword are explicitly enchanted/magical, wood-limbed or rope-tension crossbows are certainly doable (and existed) with bronze age tech, and the Griefmaker... well, I've got nothing to say on that.
So you're saying a wizard did it.
crossbows existed in the bronze age but were not to point that they could penetrate armor like the Bessy Mauler does. You couldn't get the rope tension high enough to need a ramsfoot either.
I had assumed the Greatsword (which is made of bronze) was magically reinforced, since you pretty much have to use steel to make anything larger than a short sword, given that bronze or iron will bend or break if you make the blade too long.
The Griefmaker certainly does stand out as an anachronism if Belhar was really an Iron Age civ.
To be fair, the Minotaur’s version of the Bessy Mauler sounds like a Scorpion made into an infantry weapon rather than an artillery piece. That at least is plausible with an Iron Age tech base, and the strength of Minotaurs. You’re right that a crossbow like what we actually get isn’t, since those didn’t pop up until much later.
Ahem, Griefmaker is literally described as being permanently coated in blue frost. I think we can safely say that A Wizard Thyri Did It.
While not exactly Bronze Age stuff, the Scorpio seems to fit within the tech level of the former Empire and is close enough to the description, so I'd be willing to give the Bessy Mauler a pass.
True, but the Griefmaker is pretty explicitly a late Middle Ages to early Renaissance longsword, judging by its description. I guess ’a wizard did it’ or ‘it actually fell through a portal’ is the only real explanation we’ll get there, since that is only plausible with magical reinforcement like the Greatsword if it’s not made of steel.
Isnt the bessy mauler a fucking ballista the champ is just carrying around becasue fuck you and whoever is standing behind you?
Everything is bronze. If it looks iron but isn't explicitly said then it's bronze. Fuck bronze. What a shitty metal for weapons and armor. Truly the greatest sin of the wraiths was fucking technology all the way back into the tackylookingandquicklyoutdatedmetal age.
Also I assume some items could be silver for the aesthetic and enchanted to hold its edge. Like the spiral sword maybe. Magic can explain a lot of stuff.
Also I assume some items could be silver for the aesthetic and enchanted to hold its edge. Like the spiral sword maybe. Magic can explain a lot of stuff.
Kinda, yesn't. From the description we can take two things:
1. That thing was used by Minotaurs, so it's proportioned for Minotaurs. The lupines added a goathoof, which helps with reloading, since they weren't strong enough to reload it otherwise.
2. The description says: "it's been a point of argument amongst some enthusiasts about whether the mauler can be properly classified as a siege weapon or not."
So, for minos it's a normal crossbow. For everyone not mino, it's almost a ballista.
Edit: I say almost, because actual ballistas are still huge. Though, then again it's depends on the type you're looking at. Some are minotaur sized, some to big even for minos.
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My gripe was how absurdly excessive the level of tech regression seemed, given the existence of items in the game that are pretty explicitly from the late Middle Ages/early Renaissance and what that appeared to imply about Belhar’s actual tech base
It still stretches credulity a bit if Belhar was really a Roman Empire expy and not a pre-Roman Italy expy, since the Empire was 1000-1500 years removed from bronze being the main metal used, and the fact that iron working was omnipresent throughout the Empire.
That said, I’m aware it’s nitpicky, I just found it to bit immersion breaking, since an an iron age civ based on Rome really shouldn’t of regressed quite that far, unless all the smiths and scholars I previously mentioned conveniently vanished.
Basically, yes. q.v the Bronze Age Collapse where entire parts of the world lost the ability to read/write.
It would explain a widespread loss of literacy sure, but not so much a regression to using bronze instead of iron.
Maybe not, no. Charcoaling is still probably a thing that's done in the setting; you wouldn't be able to erase that from everybody's minds. What's probably been lost is institutional/inherited knowledge, like specific techniques for controlling the amount of carbon in the iron that's being worked. Iron demonstrably can be worked to some degree in the setting (there are even Iron Greaves available for purchase from Ogrish), but the way to make it into a metal that is militarily more useful than bronze was probably a less-well-known skill.
It's still a little awkward, I agree, but it's not that awkward.
Again, though, in most qualities other than price, iron (not steel) is inferior to bronze (and depending on the exact alloys, bronze can be on par with steel in strength and superior in corrosion resistance) - pure iron is relatively soft and very vulnerable to corrosion. In some parts of the world, use of iron preceded bronze - while bronze is an alloy that requires two distinct metals that are not available everywhere, iron only needs iron and a crucible. So, as long as the materials are available and the metallurgy of steels isn't known, it makes sense to keep using bronze.
It can be if it has a high enough tin content, sure, but given that that tin content is required for that to be true, it’s not terribly likely, at least not for widespread production. I would totally agree that you would see the wealthy using high tin-content bronze weapons in this scenario, but everybody else would be using iron as it’s cheaper, more readily available, less liable to bend, and the fact that iron weapons become stronger every time you repair them, which is ideal for mass production.
Edit: At the very least a backwoods blacksmith like Ogrish wouldn’t be working with bronze, due to the expense of making the type of bronze you want for weapons. The Elves in the Winter City or the Minotaurs in Khor’Minos probably would be for their elites, but that’d be about it.
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To be fair, a backwoods blacksmith wouldn't be making swords and armor in the first place, but we can chalk that up to video game necessities.
I did admit it was nitpicky earlier. My problem is I tend to overanalyze things, particularly if it‘s something that breaks my immersion.
@Spidereggs Ha! Isn’t that the truth
@wery12345 Well, the Champ being fully literate does make sense to a degree with the Acolyte, Arcanist, or Scholar backgrounds. The others not so much, even the Noble.
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From history perspective going back from iron age to bronze is implausible (at least on Earth) - we had bronze age empires that fell and humans needed to use iron to not regress any further. Switch from bronze to iron was not really progress (to people of that time). They were forced into it.
You can go with logic that Savarra has different mineral compositions (more tin and copper) - then there is an argument to be made that Belharan Empire would not go into iron age at all - as bronze, in a lot of points, is better than wrought iron (which from chemical pov is alloy of iron and coal - same as steel - difference is in percentage of coal - ancient/medieval people didn't used pure iron - they were too shitty of metallurgist for that). Also bronze is not that bad in terms of weapons or armour @Wint3rRyd3r - we have some examples of medieval bronze maces and Romans used bronze armour to around first century (so around 1000 years post bronze age). Hoplites used iron weapons but bronze armour, if they were rich enough, most of them used Linothorax.
Also typically for any other fantasy setting - in CoC2 there is no arms race - you have advance anti armour weapons (like poleaxe with wrong description, halberds and supposed war hammers) without advanced armours (you have hoplite armour and nothing like Dendra panoply - which predates hoplites around 500 years). Funny thing is that making full plate armour with bronze would be far easier than with wrought iron or steel, if you had so much of bronze.
Blacksmith would not work with bronze at all. Different methods, also etymology of word blacksmith suggest someone that works with iron. I don't think there is historical word for bronzesmith (that one is derivative from blacksmith).
Personally I have no problem with how much historically inaccurate CoC2 is (if you even can use that term in context of fantasy game). But I cringe when people try to claim any historical merit about Savarra. Simply left it in the realm of fantasy and let authors write however they want.
You can go with logic that Savarra has different mineral compositions (more tin and copper) - then there is an argument to be made that Belharan Empire would not go into iron age at all - as bronze, in a lot of points, is better than wrought iron (which from chemical pov is alloy of iron and coal - same as steel - difference is in percentage of coal - ancient/medieval people didn't used pure iron - they were too shitty of metallurgist for that). Also bronze is not that bad in terms of weapons or armour @Wint3rRyd3r - we have some examples of medieval bronze maces and Romans used bronze armour to around first century (so around 1000 years post bronze age). Hoplites used iron weapons but bronze armour, if they were rich enough, most of them used Linothorax.
Also typically for any other fantasy setting - in CoC2 there is no arms race - you have advance anti armour weapons (like poleaxe with wrong description, halberds and supposed war hammers) without advanced armours (you have hoplite armour and nothing like Dendra panoply - which predates hoplites around 500 years
). Funny thing is that making full plate armour with bronze would be far easier than with wrought iron or steel, if you had so much of bronze.Blacksmith would not work with bronze at all. Different methods, also etymology of word blacksmith suggest someone that works with iron. I don't think there is historical word for bronzesmith (that one is derivative from blacksmith).
Personally I have no problem with how much historically inaccurate CoC2 is (if you even can use that term in context of fantasy game). But I cringe when people try to claim any historical merit about Savarra. Simply left it in the realm of fantasy and let authors write however they want.
If there's any gripe that I have with CoC II, it has to be to do with Kinu's personality bit. I get wanting to mirror the stereotypical Japanese girl that's either meant to be the dutiful housewife that her parents want her to be or the independent kid that's unwilling to ask for help from anyone and get hurt in the process. I feel like...it'd be a lot better if there were some sort of balance in between. Where maybe Kinu isn't okay with being completely beholden to her mother's beliefs and ideals, since she isn't a copy of her mother and was never meant to be but also understands that there is wisdom in the things she says. It bothers me, not because it's a hard choice to make, but it feels as though that its an exercise in extremes where the price is either Kinu's relationship with her mom at the cost of independence or her happiness for being cool with her mom. A person who, to be quite honest, isn't really that horrible of a person and has literally been trapped in a place pretty much by herself for almost a millennia until the champion came along. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth because I feel as though it's suggesting, even if it's not meaning to, that having a good relationship with your parents comes at the cost of your own happiness.
Not to be disparaging because I like quite a lot of what they've written, but I feel like unnecessary/exaggerated conflict and personal drama is a staple of everything written by TheObserver.
Garth/Garret/Gwyn, the whole kitsune clan, Salwah's drama queen moments
Occasionally this bleeds into your PC being a bit unnecessarily dramatic/negative about some things too which I don't really like. Keep the PC's thoughts and dialogue vague and let us draw our own conclusions, unless it's something we specifically walked ourselves into like a particular style of sex scene.
Yeah, that is something that I have noticed about Quinn. He feels too, whats the word, degrading/self defeating l when it comes to act of bottoming. Especially strange since he is supposed to be made for bottoming folks folks out there. Now, to some extent, I could see it as playful but it is to prominent through Quinns dialogue and actions for it to be just friendly banter. Especially his comments about Berwyn (not helped if their future threesome scene gets implemented) his self reasurence that champion rimming does not make him a butt slut (not like the champion ever implied it and only blemish on that scene otherwise) and his hussy event. Now it is not all bad. He does have one of my favourite bottoming scenes where we ride him cowgirl and the fact that he is maybe going to get some more scenes where we can power bottom him is always nice. And honestly, this could be all changed into a positive if game acknowledge these faults within his character (his fratboy behaviour above all else) and made him come to terms that he is not all that great as he claims to be.
Also, more of personal want, I wish his sex scenes were more of a tug and pull variety as he describes it. More playful, teasing, less of this one sided tug of rope for control. Since, in his Ryn conversation, he mentions that he enjoys those type of sexual intercourse the most.
I hope that I did not go into a tangion to much .
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Yeah, I've got a PC who sleeps with literally everyone. She's down for basically whatever, but I just don't like Quin...
For someone who joined a damn sex cult he seems really insecure about his sexuality when it comes time to actually get down to it, and it feels like he just takes out that insecurity on the PC.
Admittedly I don't know if that changes as you get to know him more since I just didn't continue with it, but degradation stuff is cool as long as everyone involved knows it's just for fun. His feels real.
Also when you talk to Rune and she says "Oh he's so sweet and kind and romantic!" it's like "Asshole, where the fuck is that attitude when you're coming on to me!?"
It does seem that way.
But at this point I am not even sure if the cult he jointed and the one we are fighting are one and the same. Him being the part of the cult seems really tacked on all things considered. Especially when it feels that he has enough backstory for 4 different characters considering that he also.
Just seems messy all things considered.
The most romantic he gets is when you sleep with him.
Now, he supposedly has hidden relationships mechanic where the more you interact with him, the more he likes you.
It goes acquaintances>friend/fuckbuddy>lover. Now, since Quinn is not nowhere neer complete (he did not have an update since 2020...) non of those parameters and dialogue related to them are able to be accessed without inspecting the code if I remember right. So all of his romantic side is locked behind a future expansion which is longs way off.
Now, personally, I am fine with just making him my fuckbuddy. For all reasons stated above and because I do not plan to marry a bunny that has future NPC related pregnancy planned. Just not a fan of guys that have kids on the side while I am dating them.
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Ehhh considering how many different parents my kids have in most runs, I can hardly judge anyone!
Monogamy seems impractical in Savarra.
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