Your gripes with CoC II

[Alypia]

It would explain a widespread loss of literacy sure, but not so much a regression to using bronze instead of iron.

Maybe not, no. Charcoaling is still probably a thing that's done in the setting; you wouldn't be able to erase that from everybody's minds. What's probably been lost is institutional/inherited knowledge, like specific techniques for controlling the amount of carbon in the iron that's being worked. Iron demonstrably can be worked to some degree in the setting (there are even Iron Greaves available for purchase from Ogrish), but the way to make it into a metal that is militarily more useful than bronze was probably a less-well-known skill.

It's still a little awkward, I agree, but it's not that awkward.

 

[Spidereggs]

It would explain a widespread loss of literacy sure, but not so much a regression to using bronze instead of iron.

Again, though, in most qualities other than price, iron (not steel) is inferior to bronze (and depending on the exact alloys, bronze can be on par with steel in strength and superior in corrosion resistance) - pure iron is relatively soft and very vulnerable to corrosion. In some parts of the world, use of iron preceded bronze - while bronze is an alloy that requires two distinct metals that are not available everywhere, iron only needs iron and a crucible. So, as long as the materials are available and the metallurgy of steels isn't known, it makes sense to keep using bronze.

 

[HK-47]

Again, though, in most qualities other than price, iron (not steel) is inferior to bronze (and depending on the exact alloys, bronze can be on par with steel in strength and superior in corrosion resistance) - pure iron is relatively soft and very vulnerable to corrosion. In some parts of the world, use of iron preceded bronze - while bronze is an alloy that requires two distinct metals that are not available everywhere, iron only needs iron and a crucible. So, as long as the materials are available and the metallurgy of steels isn't known, it makes sense to keep using bronze.

It can be if it has a high enough tin content, sure, but given that that tin content is required for that to be true, it’s not terribly likely, at least not for widespread production. I would totally agree that you would see the wealthy using high tin-content bronze weapons in this scenario, but everybody else would be using iron as it’s cheaper, more readily available, less liable to bend, and the fact that iron weapons become stronger every time you repair them, which is ideal for mass production.

Edit: At the very least a backwoods blacksmith like Ogrish wouldn’t be working with bronze, due to the expense of making the type of bronze you want for weapons. The Elves in the Winter City or the Minotaurs in Khor’Minos probably would be for their elites, but that’d be about it.

 

[wery12345]

I mean the champ being literate themselves can be attributed to the fact they have a bullshit learning capability, to mention the literacy rate mentioned earlier.

 

[Animalistic]

Listen, the world of CoC2 is cobbled together from strings and latex (made out of goo girls). Pointing at every fault in a setting that is more magic than logic is sure fire way to loose yourself into the abyss of unneeded critic.

 

[Spidereggs]

Edit: At the very least a backwoods blacksmith like Ogrish wouldn’t be working with bronze, due to the expense of making the type of bronze you want for weapons. The Elves in the Winter City or the Minotaurs in Khor’Minos probably would be for their elites, but that’d be about it.

To be fair, a backwoods blacksmith wouldn't be making swords and armor in the first place, but we can chalk that up to video game necessities.

 

[HK-47]

Listen, the world of CoC2 is cobbled together from strings and latex (made out of goo girls). Pointing at every fault in a setting that is more magic than logic is sure fire way to loose yourself into the abyss of unneeded critic.

I did admit it was nitpicky earlier. My problem is I tend to overanalyze things, particularly if it‘s something that breaks my immersion.

@Spidereggs Ha! Isn’t that the truth

@wery12345 Well, the Champ being fully literate does make sense to a degree with the Acolyte, Arcanist, or Scholar backgrounds. The others not so much, even the Noble.

 

[Tarnakus]

From history perspective going back from iron age to bronze is implausible (at least on Earth) - we had bronze age empires that fell and humans needed to use iron to not regress any further. Switch from bronze to iron was not really progress (to people of that time). They were forced into it.

You can go with logic that Savarra has different mineral compositions (more tin and copper) - then there is an argument to be made that Belharan Empire would not go into iron age at all - as bronze, in a lot of points, is better than wrought iron (which from chemical pov is alloy of iron and coal - same as steel - difference is in percentage of coal - ancient/medieval people didn't used pure iron - they were too shitty of metallurgist for that). Also bronze is not that bad in terms of weapons or armour @Wint3rRyd3r - we have some examples of medieval bronze maces and Romans used bronze armour to around first century (so around 1000 years post bronze age). Hoplites used iron weapons but bronze armour, if they were rich enough, most of them used Linothorax.

Also typically for any other fantasy setting - in CoC2 there is no arms race - you have advance anti armour weapons (like poleaxe with wrong description, halberds and supposed war hammers) without advanced armours (you have hoplite armour and nothing like Dendra panoply - which predates hoplites around 500 years ). Funny thing is that making full plate armour with bronze would be far easier than with wrought iron or steel, if you had so much of bronze.

Blacksmith would not work with bronze at all. Different methods, also etymology of word blacksmith suggest someone that works with iron. I don't think there is historical word for bronzesmith (that one is derivative from blacksmith).

Personally I have no problem with how much historically inaccurate CoC2 is (if you even can use that term in context of fantasy game). But I cringe when people try to claim any historical merit about Savarra. Simply left it in the realm of fantasy and let authors write however they want.

 

[BadxHero]

If there's any gripe that I have with CoC II, it has to be to do with Kinu's personality bit. I get wanting to mirror the stereotypical Japanese girl that's either meant to be the dutiful housewife that her parents want her to be or the independent kid that's unwilling to ask for help from anyone and get hurt in the process. I feel like...it'd be a lot better if there were some sort of balance in between. Where maybe Kinu isn't okay with being completely beholden to her mother's beliefs and ideals, since she isn't a copy of her mother and was never meant to be but also understands that there is wisdom in the things she says. It bothers me, not because it's a hard choice to make, but it feels as though that its an exercise in extremes where the price is either Kinu's relationship with her mom at the cost of independence or her happiness for being cool with her mom. A person who, to be quite honest, isn't really that horrible of a person and has literally been trapped in a place pretty much by herself for almost a millennia until the champion came along. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth because I feel as though it's suggesting, even if it's not meaning to, that having a good relationship with your parents comes at the cost of your own happiness.

 

[Gennevie]

If there's any gripe that I have with CoC II, it has to be to do with Kinu's personality bit. I get wanting to mirror the stereotypical Japanese girl that's either meant to be the dutiful housewife that her parents want her to be or the independent kid that's unwilling to ask for help from anyone and get hurt in the process. I feel like...it'd be a lot better if there were some sort of balance in between. Where maybe Kinu isn't okay with being completely beholden to her mother's beliefs and ideals, since she isn't a copy of her mother and was never meant to be but also understands that there is wisdom in the things she says. It bothers me, not because it's a hard choice to make, but it feels as though that its an exercise in extremes where the price is either Kinu's relationship with her mom at the cost of independence or her happiness for being cool with her mom. A person who, to be quite honest, isn't really that horrible of a person and has literally been trapped in a place pretty much by herself for almost a millennia until the champion came along. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth because I feel as though it's suggesting, even if it's not meaning to, that having a good relationship with your parents comes at the cost of your own happiness.

Not to be disparaging because I like quite a lot of what they've written, but I feel like unnecessary/exaggerated conflict and personal drama is a staple of everything written by TheObserver.
Garth/Garret/Gwyn, the whole kitsune clan, Salwah's drama queen moments
Occasionally this bleeds into your PC being a bit unnecessarily dramatic/negative about some things too which I don't really like. Keep the PC's thoughts and dialogue vague and let us draw our own conclusions, unless it's something we specifically walked ourselves into like a particular style of sex scene.

 

[Animalistic]

Not too mention the elements of bottom shaming involved, particularly in some of Quinn’s dialogue. Really not a fan of that. There are a few scenes were you can power bottom various characters (which is great), but there is definitely a recurring trend of bottoming = weakness/submissiveness popping up with certain characters.

Yeah, that is something that I have noticed about Quinn. He feels too, whats the word, degrading/self defeating l when it comes to act of bottoming. Especially strange since he is supposed to be made for bottoming folks folks out there. Now, to some extent, I could see it as playful but it is to prominent through Quinns dialogue and actions for it to be just friendly banter. Especially his comments about Berwyn (not helped if their future threesome scene gets implemented) his self reasurence that champion rimming does not make him a butt slut (not like the champion ever implied it and only blemish on that scene otherwise) and his hussy event. Now it is not all bad. He does have one of my favourite bottoming scenes where we ride him cowgirl and the fact that he is maybe going to get some more scenes where we can power bottom him is always nice. And honestly, this could be all changed into a positive if game acknowledge these faults within his character (his fratboy behaviour above all else) and made him come to terms that he is not all that great as he claims to be.

Also, more of personal want, I wish his sex scenes were more of a tug and pull variety as he describes it. More playful, teasing, less of this one sided tug of rope for control. Since, in his Ryn conversation, he mentions that he enjoys those type of sexual intercourse the most.

I hope that I did not go into a tangion to much .

 

[Gennevie]

Yeah, that is something that I have noticed about Quinns sex scenes. They feel to, whats the word, degrading when it comes to act of bottoming. Now, to some extent, I could see it as playful but it is to prominent through Quinns dialogue and actions for it to be just friendly banter. Especially his comments about Berwyn (not helped if their future threesome scene gets implemented) his self reasurence that champion rimming does not make him a butt slut (not like the champion ever implied it and only blemish on that scene otherwise) and his hussy event. Now it is not all bad. He does have one of my favourite bottoming scenes where we ride him cowgirl and the fact that he is maybe going to get some more scenes where we can power bottom him is always nice. And honestly, this could be all changed into a positive if game acknowledge these faults within his character (his fratboy behaviour above all else) and made him come to terms that he is not all that great as he claims to be.

Also, more of personal wish, I wish his sex scenes were more of a tug and pull variety as he describes it. More playful, teasing, less of this one sided tug of rope for control. Since, in his Ryn conversation, he mentions that he enjoys those type of sexual intercourse the most.

I hope that I did not go into a tangion to much .

Yeah, I've got a PC who sleeps with literally everyone. She's down for basically whatever, but I just don't like Quin...
For someone who joined a damn sex cult he seems really insecure about his sexuality when it comes time to actually get down to it, and it feels like he just takes out that insecurity on the PC.

Admittedly I don't know if that changes as you get to know him more since I just didn't continue with it, but degradation stuff is cool as long as everyone involved knows it's just for fun. His feels real.

Also when you talk to Rune and she says "Oh he's so sweet and kind and romantic!" it's like "Asshole, where the fuck is that attitude when you're coming on to me!?"

 

[Animalistic]

For someone who joined a damn sex cult he seems really insecure about his sexuality when it comes time to actually get down to it, and it feels like he just takes out that insecurity on the PC.

It does seem that way.

But at this point I am not even sure if the cult he jointed and the one we are fighting are one and the same. Him being the part of the cult seems really tacked on all things considered. Especially when it feels that he has enough backstory for 4 different characters considering that he also.

For some reason has access to two different unique skill/spells/schools of magic
Was almost the parr of the assassin syndicate
Seems to have some family drama (maybe a sòn of a noble, who knows).

Just seems messy all things considered.

"Asshole, where the fuck is that attitude when you're coming on to me!?"

The most romantic he gets is when you sleep with him.

Now, he supposedly has hidden relationships mechanic where the more you interact with him, the more he likes you.

It goes acquaintances>friend/fuckbuddy>lover. Now, since Quinn is not nowhere neer complete (he did not have an update since 2020...) non of those parameters and dialogue related to them are able to be accessed without inspecting the code if I remember right. So all of his romantic side is locked behind a future expansion which is longs way off.

Now, personally, I am fine with just making him my fuckbuddy. For all reasons stated above and because I do not plan to marry a bunny that has future NPC related pregnancy planned. Just not a fan of guys that have kids on the side while I am dating them.

 

[Gennevie]

Just not a fan of guys that have kids on the side while I am dating them.

Ehhh considering how many different parents my kids have in most runs, I can hardly judge anyone!
Monogamy seems impractical in Savarra.

 

[Animalistic]

Which is fine, just not something I am a fan off. I play these games for the power fantasy aspect and do not equal pc wants in same breath as NPC wants. And when most of the girls in these games only want your kids and can only have your kids, I would prefer if most of the guys/girls with dicks worked on somewhat same principle. The game should be about pleasing the player above everything most of the time.

Basically, give me a male harem God dammit!

 

[Gennevie]

The game should be about pleasing the player above everything most of the time.

Agreed, but the difficulty is that that means something different for everyone. For example I would be disappointed if you were the only person in the world who could cause pregnancies. That very libidinous PC I mentioned earlier doesn't have a dick, so sending in Brint or Arona to bang/knock up other NPCs is excellent!

 

[Animalistic]

Personally, I am not into watching others banging and especially if it ends up in pregnancy. And on even more personal note, having our companions being able to knock up every girl they see and do willingly makes my cboy/female champion feel less, if not loved, special if nothing else. Especially in Aronas case where she can knock up whoever but she can only bear a child by championa hand. Just cheapens the bond between my female avatar and Arona.

I would rather if they expanded upon PC related pregnancy, especially vagina related ones since last year it felt like NPCs had more love showered upon their pregnant bellies by other NPCs than the champion with stuff like Rindo,Elthara and the brown Cait.

But, as said, that is me problem. I know not everyone shares my desires for more champion centric content, especially on bottoming side.

 

[HK-47]

Admittedly I don't know if that changes as you get to know him more since I just didn't continue with it, but degradation stuff is cool as long as everyone involved knows it's just for fun. His feels real.

Also when you talk to Rune and she says "Oh he's so sweet and kind and romantic!" it's like "Asshole, where the fuck is that attitude when you're coming on to me!?"

Yeah, I got the same impression. The way those lines aren't softened with any caveats in that scene or any others that feature him definitely gives them a rather nasty impression that I don't care for at all.

As for the Rune line, I definitely wondered the same thing, because outside of some of the sleep dialogues, he comes across as a CoC equivalent of a douchey closeted frat bro, and I am too damn old to deal with that nonsense IRL, much less in a porn game.

 

[HK-47]

Monogamy seems impractical in Savarra.

Hooo boy, it definitely isn't just Savarra that it's impractical in, IMO.

Basically, give me a male harem God dammit!

I mean, to each their own, but IMO harems of any sort are pretty cringe. A poly arrangement is one thing, but harems always have that inherent element of creepy subservience and loss of agency, which I don't care for.

 

[Alypia]

Ehhh considering how many different parents my kids have in most runs, I can hardly judge anyone!
Monogamy seems impractical in Savarra.

Some players make it work.

 

[Animalistic]

I mean, to each their own, but IMO harems of any sort are pretty cringe.

Heh, they kind of are but I meant it more in a way where we have more player centric male NPCs in same way we have with our mix of female NPCs.

You have your free spirited sourts that player can be in open relationship (Cait, Lusamine, Miko, Mai, Elthara), the player centric ones (Brienne, Kiyoko, the MILF Cougar) and the rest in the middle (the ones that fuck around but much less so such as Kurako, Kohaku, Agni, Atugia, Ryn, Hretha). And finally, all of the sex workers and people that are just not interested in you romantically/sexually.
Player here gets to choose which type of NPCs they want to interact with and be serious with/marry.


I am personally fan of Brienne and Agni camps when it comes to PC orientated relationships. But at same time, I can tangle with the rest for the spice of it (even though the only sex worker I actually really enjoyed was, ironically, Nikol).

So harem in this context is marrying/concubining many different girls/guys that (mostly) prefer you above all else.

Basically what I am getting at, I wish we had more of that balance when it comes to male NPCs. It feels most fall into the sex worker/hos camp (Brint, Quinn, Sugo, Boomer, Takahiro), have no Interest in me, romantic or sexual (rest of the male Kitsune den, every fucking DILF, River, Jun Jun, Elf Boy, Vaush) and one or two middle (Berwyn, June, Elyon?) and more devoted ones (Liulfr, Lyric). I just wish male NPCs were more balanced.

Although, I wouldn't say no to a male harem in same vain as Cat harem.

 

[luciel1331]

Personally, I am not into watching others banging and especially if it ends up in pregnancy. And on even more personal note, having our companions being able to knock up every girl they see and do willingly makes my cboy/female champion feel less, if not loved, special if nothing else. Especially in Aronas case where she can knock up whoever but she can only bear a child by championa hand. Just cheapens the bond between my female avatar and Arona.

I would rather if they expanded upon PC related pregnancy, especially vagina related ones since last year it felt like NPCs had more love showered upon their pregnant bellies by other NPCs than the champion with stuff like Rindo,Elthara and the brown Cait.

But, as said, that is me problem. I know not everyone shares my desires for more champion centric content, especially on bottoming side.

Yeah I agree. Though I do like Brint and Quin since they are one of rare sire that isn't a pump and dump kind and I do enjoy pc preg scenes.....I don't mind them fucking everybody since my PC fuck a lot of ppl too. But I feel like the pc feels less special when they can knock up everyone. Like pc is just one of many womb for them to conquer. I know that's kind of their character and they have impregnation fetish.....but it does feel like the pc takes a L for having a vagina. Also considering there is barely power bottoming with vagina having pc. Like you are immediately sub if you have a vagina and the only way you can be dom with vagina is when it's btwn characters with vagina. Well at least it's a choice not something that's forced so that's a bright side.

 

[HK-47]

Yeah I agree. Though I do like Brint and Quin since they are one of rare sire that isn't a pump and dump kind and I do enjoy pc preg scenes.....

Berwyn does talk about about finding a place to settle down & raise the kids after Kasyrra is defeated, if you do his breeding route, so there's that.

 

[Animalistic]

Doesn't Quinn have, like, that one scene about your pregnancy when you give birth and nothing more? Same amount as effort as Eltharas/Quinn's pregnancy If I remember right. I feel that makes him one step removed from pump and dump variety.

 

[luciel1331]

Berwyn does talk about about finding a place to settle down & raise the kids after Kasyrra is defeated, if you do his breeding route, so there's that.

Ah shoot forgot about Berwyn. His content hasn't been updated in so long I forgot. Looking forward to B's expansion of him.Yeah that's why berwyn is one of faves along with Lyric and Nyze. They're pretty sweet to you when you're pregnant with their child.

Doesn't Quinn have, like, that one scene about your pregnancy when you give birth and nothing more? Same amount as effort as Eltharas/Quinn's pregnancy scene If I remember right. I feel that makes him one step removed from pump and dump variety.

Yeah that's true. I did get pretty disappointed that there wasn't anything during his pregnancy or he doesn't acknowledge it until you give birth. I just kind of assume it's bc he's severely lacking in content and hoping for more whenever he gets an expansion. Low bar but at least he mentions he can train pc and his kids so they don't end up like him or something. Didn't check quin and elthara's pregnancy. I don't mind watching the companions fuck other npcs if I'm involved in the process like a threesome. But not into them knocking up npcs. Maybe I should do it once and erase the save just to see how it goes.

 

[wery12345]

Kohaku

Judging by the fact the champ is the one who claims her V card she probably doesnt do much sleeping around for benifactors. And the dact of it not proccing the same for the local fat assed cat is probably to save some awful fucking trouble on the parser end.

 

[WolframL]

And the dact of it not proccing the same for the local fat assed cat is probably to save some awful fucking trouble on the parser end.

What are you talking about, those two are obviously different people...

 

[Animalistic]

Moving from the meme aspect of conversation, it always read to me that Ambra had sex with people (if I remember right) and that Kohaku always played up her innocent act to get the champion to like her more. Which is fitting for her character.
Personally, do not care that she was not a virgin, never really was something I looked in the character. Kohaku/Ambra is fun either way and I would like more of her all the same.

 

[wery12345]

Fair enough, but there is the fact that it is possible to get benefactors without getting takin to pound town, and her ears are very sensitive.

I would like more of her all the same.

Same here, be it concubinage or just more interactions with the cute smol fox with a fat fucking ass.

 

[VVV]

(the ones that fuck around but much less so such as Kurako, Kohaku, Agni, Atugia, Ryn, Hretha).

Kohaku and Atugia? I thought they were virgins before you.