Your gripes with CoC II

[Tide Hunter]

I'm sorry but compared to that, Kas as a threat to the World just feels less intrinsically motivating for the Champ. The exception that proves the rule being the romance route in which the Champ goes out of his way to show interest in her. And without a proper setup, I don't know if her just showing up everywhere would improve that.

Kas literally tells the Champ that she plans on stealing their soul later. Sure, the Champ may have intentions of keeping the world safe, but selfish Champs would still be doing something because she made a very real threat against them. She made it very clear that she intends to steal the Champ's soul, and even if you skip past that, there's bold text in the prologue after the Champ wakes up, which is supposed to be dialogue from the Champ themself, about how Kas has stated that she intends to steal their soul.

and her hinted ties with other shady magic users, like Lady Evergreen

It's a bit more than hinted with Lady Evergreen. Komari, the old kitsune matron, was their teacher. Carmen and Evergreen studied magic under Komari, but they split off because of their conflicting ideologies, along with how Evergreen started studying dark magic which was a practice Carmen and Komari disliked.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

Add to that her life span, her interest in magic, her complete disinterest in mortal affairs, and her hinted ties with other shady magic users, like Lady Evergreen - in total that is enough to earn her a preliminary spot on the list.

So quick question, have you done the the champion of Hawkethorne ceremony after completing the orc, alraune, and centaur quests? Because you get to talk and ask her about a lot of stuff. Very short non-spoilery version: Carmen HATES Evergreen (which Komari kinda sorta implies once) and she isn't disinterested in mortal affairs. She originally hired the mercs to help the town, ironic I know, and throws money at the nursery to get it started. I don't think you've got an accurate picture of the baroness.

 

[Savin]

and commits to honest to G-d parental incest

No she doesn't

she isn't disinterested in mortal affairs.

She's just a boomer who's out of touch

 

[SmithEK]

Could the furry bimbo tanukis scattered around moma Evergreens mansion be very unfortunate (fortunate) travelers/adventures that some how crossed the sexy witch?

 

[Lone Wolf115]

Nobody will dispute that Carmen sucks at being in charge. But she's done nothing shady and she doesn't suck souls. She's a cumpire. She literally just sucks dick for sustenance. Which is way different than actually eating souls and everything Evergreen does. Carmen does not belong in the same group with Evergreen and Kas. Unlike those two, she actually tries to help people and just sucks at it.

I thought Carmen was a vampire but now I know she's not, like traditional blood vampire she just gave off the vibe from first looking at her.
How did she learn to do that, I thought it was just a Kitsune thing it doesn't seem like something that can be thought?
Like the fuck?

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

I thought Carmen was a vampire but now I know she's not, like traditional blood vampire she just gave off the vibe from first looking at her.
How did she learn to do that, I thought it was just a Kitsune thing it doesn't seem like something that can be thought?
Like the fuck?

Things like vampires and zombies aren't usually allowed due to Papa Patreon and their hatred of necrophilia. So making her a sex based vampire was probably easier. Her being a cumpire is mentioned in the main design doc. But yeah, she definitely has some serious Carmilla vibes. Also kitsune eat someone's essence. The sex part just has to do with the equivalent exchange thing so ingrained in their culture.

 

[WolframL]

Could the furry bimbo tanukis scattered around moma Evergreens mansion be very unfortunate (fortunate) travelers/adventures that some how crossed the sexy witch?

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

 

[Lone Wolf115]

Things like vampires and zombies aren't usually allowed due to Papa Patreon and their hatred of necrophilia. So making her a sex based vampire was probably easier. Her being a cumpire is mentioned in the main design doc. But yeah, she definitely has some serious Carmilla vibes. Also kitsune eat someone's essence. The sex part just has to do with the equivalent exchange thing so ingrained in their culture.

I've never understood why vampires are considered that, sure their blood stops moving and their bodies are cold but they were alive, know what I'm gonna stop right there. (They still have feelings, so they aren't completely cold.)
But her cumpire thing is related to the Kitsune in some way right? I do appreciate that Keros makes it so you don't have to feed, like I need another priority added to my list off things (still have to make my fox wife a powerful nine tail) and stop a beautiful I mean sexy uhh dangerous yeah that's it dangerous demonness from conquering everything.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

But her cumpire thing is related to the Kitsune in some way right?

As far as I'm aware, no it's not related and I doubt it. But I also don't know for sure.

I've never understood why vampires are considered that, sure their blood stops moving and their bodies are cold but they were alive, know what I'm gonna stop right there

It's a bit of a weird area. I don't view it necrophilia since they don't usually have open wounds or are truly dead like a zombie. But Patreon is not always consistent so it was probably just easier to not have regular vampires in the lore. To be fair, a vampire who lives off of blowjobs is a more general kink than the "I vant to suck your blud" type.

 

[Lone Wolf115]

As far as I'm aware, no it's not related and I doubt it. But I also don't know for sure.



It's a bit of a weird area. I don't view it necrophilia since they don't usually have open wounds or are truly dead like a zombie. But Patreon is not always consistent so it was probably just easier to not have regular vampires in the lore. To be fair, a vampire who lives off of blowjobs is a more general kink than the "I vant to suck your blud" type.

It must be in some way.

I don't either but people like to label shit.
I'm more of a Werewolf person as in I'd rather have the raw physical power. Not the Movie bullshit sides the people took I'm not naming it for everyone's sake, but let's not delve into that hole. At all.
I am a furry after all so I'd rather go for the Lupine look instead, then at least I'd be able to use tools.

 

[Burnerbro]

So quick question, have you done the the champion of Hawkethorne ceremony after completing the orc, alraune, and centaur quests?

Nope, that's the "latest content" I mentioned - though realistically it is her first and atm only significant piece of content, everything before it consists of brief one off interactions and people talking about her. Good to know that you get to have a decent conversation with her. Do you get to finally meet Severine as well during that event, or at least learn more about her?

Can't believe I forgot about the Mercs being under her employ before buggering off to loot and pillage in the opposite direction from all the main trade routes they were supposed to be protecting - and that it would make much more sense to waylay. Their zone placement is weird to say the least.

In any case, combined with the spoilery portion of Tide Hunter's comment, all this does change my opinion on Carmen quite a bit. Still can't help but wonder what 'Tui's comment I described was about, if it is still alligned with canon.

No she doesn't

I assume it got purged to appease the all-seeing eye of the Patreon? It indeed has been a long while since I read the scene or saw the nerds on the forum talking about it.

Good riddance, I'd say. Cause if the Champ can't floof his cute daughteru, why should Evergreen? Makes me wonder what all the control and grooming are for now that the fetish aspect of it is diminished. My money is on body-swapping, keeping the Evil Magic Mom tropes strong.

 

[wery12345]

Isnt is kinda implied in a line of evergreens that she is body swapping in some capacity, if not swapping the memories? At least that is how I read some of the lines.

 

[Emerald]

I assume it got purged to appease the all-seeing eye of the Patreon? It indeed has been a long while since I read the scene or saw the nerds on the forum talking about it.

Good riddance, I'd say. Cause if the Champ can't floof his cute daughteru, why should Evergreen? Makes me wonder what all the control and grooming are for now that the fetish aspect of it is diminished. My money is on body-swapping, keeping the Evil Magic Mom tropes strong.

No, rather she never fucked her blood daughters. Scroll up a bit and you'll see someone speculate correctly about the furry tanuki. In fact it doesn't take a lot of searching in general on the forums to find the truth. But Wolf is right when they say Emily guessed it.
They're not ACTUALLY her daughters, but unrelated adventurers who crossed her iirc. Evergreens REAL daughters are the two half-nukis that stick around, who she does not bang. The furry ones being called her daughters made me think it as well, but then I also read the base design doc and saw that she doesn't tailor to actual incest but rather "faux (fake)-incest". The half-nukis are unfucked, the furries are people that screwed the pooch with her.

 

[LonelyHydra]

Kas literally tells the Champ that she plans on stealing their soul later. Sure, the Champ may have intentions of keeping the world safe, but selfish Champs would still be doing something because she made a very real threat against them. She made it very clear that she intends to steal the Champ's soul, and even if you skip past that, there's bold text in the prologue after the Champ wakes up, which is supposed to be dialogue from the Champ themself, about how Kas has stated that she intends to steal their soul.

I shouldn't have glossed over that, but compare using storytelling shorthand how the nuFenCo MCs are introduced in the tutorial:
TiTS, MC therefore DeadDad therefore Treasure but Rival
CoC2, MC and then Kitty therefore Cultist therefore Demon.

That "and then" would explain how the Champ looks less proactive than Steele, at the start. Ooh I have a another idea for character creation: the player picks their appearance stats when Kasyrra first examines them.

 

[Savin]

Do you get to finally meet Severine as well during that event, or at least learn more about her?

No

 

[WolframL]

That "and then" would explain how the Champ looks less proactive than Steele, at the start.

Except you've got the order of Captain Steele kind of backwards. Dead Dad therefore MC, because you're literally Victor's designer baby who was born to be his one legitimate child and the entire character creation is Victor deciding what he wants his future heir to be like. There's no agency on Captain Steele's part in this and the motivation that drives them throughout the game is provided to them by virtue of their origin as Victor's designer heir plus the Gaming Gods declaring that yes, you will be interested in finding all the probes and not just going out and having hot sex and unrelated adventures.

The only functional difference to how the protagonists are made is that TiTS provides a framing story for the character creation while CoC2 does not. I suppose it could be rewritten to start with you sitting down at Garth's and reflecting on your past as you're talking to him but that wouldn't substantially change anything. Once you've got your Champion, the tutorial gives you what will be your motivation for the rest of the game as a consequence of your actions as opposed to having it given to you before you were even born... or you can ignore Cait entirely because muh player agency, and then enjoy your premature end to the experience.

 

[LonelyHydra]

Except you've got the order of Captain Steele kind of backwards. Dead Dad therefore MC, because you're literally Victor's designer baby who was born to be his one legitimate child and the entire character creation is Victor deciding what he wants his future heir to be like. There's no agency on Captain Steele's part in this and the motivation that drives them throughout the game is provided to them by virtue of their origin as Victor's designer heir plus the Gaming Gods declaring that yes, you will be interested in finding all the probes and not just going out and having hot sex and unrelated adventures.

The only functional difference to how the protagonists are made is that TiTS provides a framing story for the character creation while CoC2 does not. I suppose it could be rewritten to start with you sitting down at Garth's and reflecting on your past as you're talking to him but that wouldn't substantially change anything. Once you've got your Champion, the tutorial gives you what will be your motivation for the rest of the game as a consequence of your actions as opposed to having it given to you before you were even born... or you can ignore Cait entirely because muh player agency, and then enjoy your premature end to the experience.

I think you're underestimating how much that framing story impacts the player's impression has of their avatar, even if people skip it after a first run. After character creation, TiTS really sells the Daddy Issues the MC as part of character motivation going forward.

I joke about character creation because it's unlikely to get in, but it can work. The questions at the start about Name, Race, Class, Background, and Sex can be fairly boilerplate. Then, you decide your appearance as a Demon is making yourself aware of your own body. It would be memorable, at least.

Given that the [Do Nothing] ending reinforces that Heroic Guilt for not helping, I can respect the implication by player choice that a Pure Champion simply Cares more than the people around them. But sometimes, a player can be more frustrated with the illusion of choice, than if the game was honest enough to take the lead. Imagine if you did nothing at first, the game had Garth reprimand the patrons, by extension you, about not worrying about possible cultists summoning whatever. Like a DM invoking curiousity through the backstory and asking if the player were sure, it would play out a lot better.

 

[WolframL]

I was thinking more along the lines of framing things as the Champ talking to Garth, with the latter asking what's your story and where you've come from, which could be used to frame either telling him these things (like when you pick your Class and Background) or thinking about them to yourself if they wouldn't make much sense in the context of a conversation (height, wyld mark if you start as an elf, sexual characteristics...) which would still be clearly artificial but at least semi-integrated into the narrative. You can't really get it as seamless as TiTS just because of how the two stories are set up.

I'm also not sure how making Kas responsible for our appearance would be an improvement over sticking it right at the start if you really want to integrate the creation into the narrative,, especially if you're playing a Champ who isn't interested in any of Kas' TF offers.

As for the way the Do Nothing option works, Tobs has already explained that one.

 

[Savin]

Back when we made that choice, the secret "ending" of FarCry was still culturally relevant

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

Back when we made that choice, the secret "ending" of FarCry was still culturally relevant

According to Ubisoft, it still is relevant.

As for the way the Do Nothing option works, Tobs has already explained that one.

How are you able to pull up relevant links from various different times? I'm impressed. And terrified. Please don't use this power for evil.

 

[WolframL]

How are you able to pull up relevant links from various different times?

I learned the secrets of Search Fu from an old master who lived in the misty mountains. Also, it helps when I remember having already seen the comment previously for one reason or another so I'm not really searching blindly.

 

[Paradox01]

How are you able to pull up relevant links from various different times?

A memory like a steel(e) trap + the forum Search engine.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

 

[Burnerbro]

Back when we made that choice, the secret "ending" of FarCry was still culturally relevant

I call hacks. Where is the Champ's joy flight with the Big Bad, raining hot lead cum on the heads of mere mortals?

I think you're underestimating how much that framing story impacts the player's impression has of their avatar, even if people skip it after a first run. After character creation, TiTS really sells the Daddy Issues the MC as part of character motivation going forward.

And that's why for me Anno is forever bottom tier (sorry, Savin) and why Ramis is best wife: she helps my Steele to charter a life's course together waaay the fuck away from daddy dearest and his (and megacorp in general) BS for after we get that check. Being a big cat lady full of love and badassery also helps, which is why Shade was Ramis's only real competition before getting a sidegrade into being my character's best relative.

--

Back to general griping: based on running several different characters through all of the content in the three starter zones (Old Forest, Foothills, and Harvest Valey) the Resolve combat seems entirely suboptimal as an option for any party that doesn't have two out of three characters specializing on it. So if I have vanilla Cait and Quin in my party and my Champ is 50/50 on dealing Resolve and HP damage, even foes that are explicitly vulnerable to Horny are easier to smack down than to tease into submission.

As a corollary to this, I'm bummed out by the fact that, apparently, the only Power dealing Pheromone type damage we can ever learn or steal is a level 6 Thief power. So all those beastkin type enemies with 75% Pheromone vulnerability just keep taunting me.

And finally, speaking of running: the fact that you don't get any HP and Resolve recovery after fleeing combat means that more often than not you are just trading one loss scene for another one in the future, unless you are stacked on healing items or right outside of camp/town.

 

[WolframL]

As a corollary to this, I'm bummed out by the fact that, apparently, the only Power dealing Pheromone type damage we can ever learn or steal is a level 6 Thief power. So all those beastkin type enemies with 75% Pheromone vulnerability just keep taunting me.

The Rosebloom Shield converts damage from your Tease attack to Pheromone damage. Not a Power but it does let you take advantage of that weakness. Azzy's post-sleep perk also does the same thing on a temporary basis.

 

[LonelyHydra]

I'm also not sure how making Kas responsible for our appearance would be an improvement over sticking it right at the start if you really want to integrate the creation into the narrative,, especially if you're playing a Champ who isn't interested in any of Kas' TF offers.

It's not that she's responsible, she's just looking over your body.

Kas making flattering innuendos as the player chooses their appearance stats along with sexual boon, first lusting over our body before lusting after our soul. I don't think I'm able to explain any further how that`s terrifying and/or hot.

As for the way the Do Nothing option works, Tobs has already explained that one.

While I still think "the DM" just needs to ask the player if they want to kill/fuck demons or not, that was a decent enough answer. Much like the death of Aerith was meant to represent this thing called grief, I need to accept that a Champion that is Pure is Just Like That sometimes.

I will add that assuming subjectivity is so unknowable and unpenetrable is concerning as an artist. Sounds like quitter talk to me.

Back when we made that choice, the secret "ending" of FarCry was still culturally relevant

Don't all UbiSoft games do that now?

 

[Akhter13]

You can already dick over Arona, and I'd like to put more content down her Exile line later (either Bimbofication or Demonification or w/e -- something to balance out losing the Orc Camp on her Chieftain line).

I would like to nominate Twinkification as a route for Arona, for the following reasons amongst others :

• She has a "might is right/strong is never wrong" mind set, so what happens when you so completely fail; Particularly when you define yourself by means of strength and independence which you now realize was only borrowed from your community. A community from which you are exiled.
• Lots of characters get swoll, none of them get smoll
• Bimbofication and Demonification are generic fates this feels more like a personal nightmare
• A post cage Ryn can always return the favour
• a more conient size to put across your lap and chastise until she pops her rocks
• The default Futa body part setting is Ostentatious it might be nice to set it to modest for a change

It is just a suggestion and I will understand if you feel it may be pandering to a certain class of Arona hater

 

[Savin]

I will understand if you feel it may be pandering to a certain class of Arona hater

I say "No" not for that reason but because there are very few things I would enjoy writing less than a twink.

 

[Lone Wolf115]

I say "No" not for that reason but because there are very few things I would enjoy writing less than a twink.

Fair, for that no more shall be said.
How far is the Ryn cage content, sigh she needn't wait long, right?

 

[GEESE]

However long it takes to re-encounter her sister, I assume. Maybe she's a boss in korminos? or maybe the one after. I want her freed toooooo.

 

[mikethor007]

IIRC Demon Alissa went north, separately from Kassyra. (Romance path). Kassyra went east with her dragon "daughter" to her lab.

In the antagonist route they all head off toghether?

Her lab could be down at Khorminos, which might explain the higher than "normal" quantity of imps down there. Which might end up being quite a nasty thing to untangle...