Your gripes with CoC II

[Forget Me Knot]

Anyways, there's not really all that many futas? Like, there's several, but the way you talked about it made it sound like the majority of the NPCs are futas, which I'm fairly certain is not the case. Like, having your pc be futa is optimal, but most characters I've seen have either been strictly male or female. Though in regards to the majority engaging in consensual sex, yeah. Most do. Most of all of the NPCs are consensual to fuck, because the world isn't really all that corrupt, despite the presence of corrupt enemies. That's pretty much the backbone of why you complained, because the world is currently in the early stages of being corrupted. Your PC isn't going to likely get corrupted by interacting with the residents of the world, because, unlike Mareth, what you're fighting to do is prevent corruption from happening, rather than overthrowing the one who initially did the corruption.

To expand on these particular talking points: if any game has a lot of futas/dickgirls, it's most definitely TITS tbh. and, hell, in all three games — COC1, TITS, and COC2 — it isn't like pure female characters are a minority so there's plenty for the non-futa fans that are into chicks to enjoy as well. The real minority — as the OP of this discussion mentioned — are the men characters (whether they'd be pure male, male herms, or cuntboys) and there's a major reason for that (that reason being is that most of the writers as well as a good chunk of the playerbase prefer to see busty futas). I like me some futas/dickgirls in my hentai games so I'm not complaining by any means. That being said, I do appreciate what few male characters there are in these games and wouldn't mind seeing more in the future (especially with a little more variety). Special shout-out to Wsan btw for writing one of THE best (if not THE best) husbandos of all time, Brint !!

Anyways, to address the second talking point, I agree with Tide Hunter tbh. The key difference between COC1 and COC2 is that, in the former, you're fighting to find a cure for a contagious "disease" (if you will) while, in the later, you're working on preventative measures to ensure that a new strand of the disease does not spread. Basically, you're the champion of an already corrupted land or land in danger of becoming corrupted respectively.

 

[Alypia]

That said, if you want corrupting content, you could try Etheryn. She doesn't really want to fuck, it seems, she just accepts that she has to because of her physiology.

I don't think that this is quite it.

Ryn likes to fuck, even when she's not the one getting off (to wit: blowjob and eating out scenes). Regardless of her Confidence and Libido levels, she loves making somebody she cares about happy, and that absolutely means sex. She's super shy about sex at low Confidence and low Libido, but that's because she's been broken down by her sister's torture, not because she doesn't like it.

You can definitely read Libido as her "corruption" stat, especially if you keep her at low Confidence, because low-Con high-Lib Ryn is basically a turbosub buttslut with zero self-esteem. But high-Con, high-Libido Ryn isn't so much corrupt as switchy; she loves to get fucked, but she knows what she wants, too, has the self-confidence to do it well, and at least some measure of self-control and independence.

Anyways, there's not really all that many futas? Like, there's several, but the way you talked about it made it sound like the majority of the NPCs are futas, which I'm fairly certain is not the case.

You're absolutely correct. Purefem vastly outnumbers futa, even if you throw in dickgirls. (Disclaimer: this list does not account for content not currently in game.) Allow me to provide at least some measure of factual evidence to bolster the claim.

Take futa/DG characters. We've got Arona, Jael'yn, Evelyn, Anna, Morwen, Hashat, Orlaith, that bitch Evergreen, Meira, the Unnamed Frost Pupper, Fritte, aaaaand...that's the end of the list for repeatable content. Then there's Kasyrra, who is obviously very important but has no repeatable scenes. There's Ryn, who can't use her dongus. So call it 11+2. And then there are a few enemies that you can fuck post-combat like the Manticore. the Marefolk Shaman, and Eryka, and there are one-time deals like Naiyana, and there are edge cases like the two driders and the gnoll pack, but by and large...not a whole lot of futas and DGs in this game.

(edit: missed Syrish, so 12+2)

Then there's the purefem list. If you're looking for purefems with sex, well, there's Cait, Brienne, Atugia, Kiyoko, Azyrran, Gwyn, Leorah, Shar, Clementine, Merielle, Janeen, Lusamine, Ragnild, Hretha, Grettel, Selima, Calill, Yset, Ria, Grainne, Doireann, Nyzerrah, Farrah, Hatsu, Kohaku, Kurako, Rindo, Miko, Mai, Hethia, Elthara, Atani, Ahmri, Eubicha, Gianna, Tamarind, Zuzaan, Gloria, and Lucia, all 38 of whom are dtf the Champion without combat. And you can keep going with purefem characters through combat, corruption, or Bad Ends, like Lusina, Liaden, Jen, Genova, Byvernia, Gytha, Infrith, Zhara, the Cultist Evangelist, that bitch Alissa (on second thought, Kas might just keep the Champion for herself in that scene)...I'm not even going to bother finishing this list given how lopsided it already is.

I'm pretty sure I missed one or two there (edit: Vari, Viviane, and Liresh, and prob more), but I don't think that changes the proportions at all.

Sure, not all characters are created equal. But, as far as I'm aware, the single largest amount of content for a character belongs to Kiyoko, who is the purefem par excellence. In fact, all floof women currently in-game are purefem, which, given the heavily fleshed out nature of their writing, skews the quality argument even further. (Sure, Kiyoko and the floofs are all totally avoidable. But they also have the largest and loudest fanbase in the game, present on Steam, Patreon, the forums, and Discord.) In fact, it took until this summer to get Arona, our first actual futa companion who uses her dick, into the party. Our first futa side character with a large number of repeatable sex scenes was Oxana, who didn't show up until late last September, over a year into release. And yeah, obviously, there's Kas, who is the game's mascot and current primary antagonist, but she has zero repeatable content and what she does have has been drip-fed.

People can think whatever they want about futa/DG characters, about the ideal proportion of futas compared to purefems, or whatever. Personal preference is what it is. But purefem characters objectively outnumber futas to a very large degree. The "everybody's a futa" meme is totally baseless.

 

[IExistForThisPost]

In retrospect I did overstate the amount of futas, sorry. I think random events with recurring futas (e.g. the elf troupe in the woods) biased me, as well as having a dickgirl companion on my team. I also did background research before posting and found many people discussing the amount of futa content in a negative light which colored my perception. My apologies for being misrepresentative - it wasn't my main point, though, so hopefully it doesn't distract too much. I've modified the post a bit to be more accurate.

 

[Zawarado]

Ah, Tel'adre. That glorious bastion of sexual purity... with Urta, Edryn, Dominika, Rubi, Kathrine et al in it...

That city which has a minotaur baker who cums into his eclairs before serving them up to the public...

That shining city upon the hill that has a cum-sucking, impregnating dildo machine out in the open right smack in the middle of the gym and the membership is all busy boning each other in the showers.

That Tel'adre?

We've had some bad cases of nostalgia goggles before, but this is pretty high up.

Well to be fair Tobs, the Tel'adre bit of his post isn't even the point he's trying to make, nor does proving this bit false address anything else about his issue

 

[The Observer]

Well to be fair Tobs, the Tel'adre bit of his post isn't even the point he's trying to make, nor does proving this bit false address anything else about his issue

Like the whole futa issue that Alypia just pointed out, the point is that the poster in question is making arguments from a largely fictional view of the game that only exists in their head via nostalgia goggles. Tel'adre didn't come together to fight the evils of sex and horniness, they came together as refugees because they didn't want to be enslaved by Lethice and her demons; it was the last city in Mareth where the remaining non-demonic mages could effectively shield them from the demons' sight. There is absolutely nothing in vanilla CoC1 (IDK what lore fuckery modders may have added) to support the idea that the city was ever meant to be a bastion of chastity and virtue to begin with; it was literally a place where survivors gathered, and no one was tested for their libido upon entering the city, but rather the mages' spells tested for demonic corruption.

That puts the whole argument of CoC1 representing libido = corruption on its head, especially when numerous people like the bee-girl, loppe and her mother, Minerva, are all sex-positive and are implied through their associated items (pure honey, pure peach, etc) or outright described as being pure; you openly catch Arian jacking off to you and yet he can treat your corruption. Numerous characters that are described as being pure/having been purified like Sheila and the fairy you can rescue still want to fuck after the fact; they don't suddenly become prudes once cleansed. Hell, both the sand witches and to a lesser extent the harpy queen are all about the fucking from day one in a bid to breed their own armies, and they're portrayed as being pure (more ambiguously so, in the latter case) forces against the demons.

It's basically Marble's whole "anal is evil" schtick all over again, slightly repackaged.

From word of god, corruption in CoC1 was primarily about physical corruption and the changing of your body, which is why you can never revert to being human after you transform away, and why transformations take centerstage.

I've seen smoothbrains in other places equivocating the Mallachite faith with Tollus' demon cult because they both like to fuck, so they're equally corrupt; you can imagine what I think of that take. The definition of corruption that our game has been using since day one is present in the writer's guide and is no secret.

 

[GraphiteCrow]

I've seen smoothbrains in other places equivocating the Mallachite faith with Tollus' demon cult because they both like to fuck, so they're equally corrupt; you can imagine what I think of that take. The definition of corruption that our game has been using since day one is present in the writer's guide and is no secret.

That's weird, sounds like a lot of repressed prudes who think sex is sin. Pardon my use of Pathfinder lore but Equating Mallachite Church and The Demon cult is like Comparing Arshea with Socothbenoth.

 

[Fleep]

Soooo, after reading all this comments back and forth, I have enough knowledge on this matter to draw the following conclussion: appartenly there's room to add more futas.

 

[IExistForThisPost]

Wittgenstein once said that all problems of philosophy are problems of language, and I see that there is a problem of language occurring here. The limits of our language are the limits of our world, and my internal conception of "corruption" heavily painted my interpretation of Tel'Aldre; that is, all the lewdness within it can be seen as "a failing of their moral code" as inflicted by external corruption. Let's state a list of facts, while keeping in mind that there are two different understandings of the word "corruption" being used by different people.

1) Demonic corruption is tainting the land in CoC1.
2) The demons are altering beings to be more sexually depraved in appearance and behavior
3) There exists Tel'Aldre, a town that tests for corruption on entry, and is hiding from the demonic corruption (which is associated with sexually depraved appearance/behavior due to the above).
4) There are references within the town to the demon invasion making the inhabitants more sexually open/etc ( example: https://i.imgur.com/qaeWAEu.jpg )

With all this in mind, I think it's hard to deny that presentation of the game strongly suggest that Tel'Aldre having being presented as an opposition force to sexually depraved appearances/behavior that's being worn down over time, even if this is not intended to be the case. I think it would be really hard, to the point of requiring significant mental effort, to *not* immediately associate Tel'Aldre with purity and the sexual antics within as the fault of the demonic corruption. Well, I don't mean to make excuses and uselessly struggle against the truth, I'm just trying to express that I think what led to my position is fairly reasonable. Even if Tel'Aldre was intended to be an uber slutty town from the get-go, the presentation does not really convey this very clearly, with there being plenty of room for misunderstanding.

And it's this room for misunderstanding which can pose an interesting conclusion: It doesn't necessarily matter what a place actually "is", if the perspective of what it is can alter how one interprets it. The same identical 1:1 events in Tel'Aldre can be significantly different experiences based on your perspective of the city, regardless of what the city is "actually" intended to be. The events in Tel'Aldre and its role in the greater setting can fairly significantly convey a feeling of corruption (my definition: sexual degradation over time, process, non-consensual kind of thing, etc).

With this in mind, I might posit something funny. Maybe it's not that CoC2 has different goals, but that with greater maturity the developers have gotten better at expressing what they wanted to express all along, so what used to trick people into thinking there was corruption and paint their perception such that the corruption came to exist in a real sense, is now completely absent. The setting is conveyed with greater clarity, and thanks to some key differences (a pure world being corrupted vs entering an already largely corrupted world) the perception of everything is completely different from before the first H-scene ever begins.

So, in conclusion. I would reject the statement that my understanding of CoC1 is "a largely fictional view of the game that only exists in (my) head via nostalgia goggles." (I particularly object to 'nostalgia goggles' because I replayed the game for this purpose! At least say rose-tinted glasses or something). The easily misinterpreted presentation of the game make it not such a clear-cut issue, and if the text is written in such a way that it's consistently misinterpreted in one way, then one has to accept it as a part of that game, regardless of what Word of God intended for it to be - the concept of la mort de l'auteur was thought up entirely for situations such as this. I think that CoC1 is not a tightly controlled game that has a carefully preserved worldview; there's plenty of things that contribute to one understanding of the world vs the other, and I would be pretty surprised if the average reader derived that "corruption" was intended to specifically refer to physical corruption. You can criticize people for not being perfect beings of pure rationality, but that's just looking away from reality, the real experiences and valid interpretations of, dare I say it, a work of art.


Edit: With all this said, given that the developer's conception of "corruption" purely refers to physical attributes, I do have to retract some of my previous statements. Perhaps all of the corruption (my definition) that I enjoyed in CoC1 was all incidental and not actually intended by the core developers. With this in mind it's a bit harder to take issue with CoC2 "abandoning" it as it were, and I think it will be easier for me to accept CoC2 as it is.

 

[GEESE]

I think its kinda silly to complain about futa content this late in the game. Futa fetish is the demographic, It'd be like going to Furaffinity and complaining about there being too much furry content.

 

[Upcast Drake]

I also did background research before posting and found many people discussing the amount of futa content in a negative light which colored my perception.

I wonder where you read that

 

[Wsan]

I don't think all the complaints are invalid (if we could go back in time I would definitely make an effort to introduce corruption content sooner -- as it is, it's coming out right about now) but the "all girls are futa" one just doesn't fly by any metric no matter what /v/ tells you. By volume or by headcount, regular women are by far the biggest population in the game.

 

[Tide Hunter]

the concept of la mort de l'auteur was thought up entirely for situations such as this.

Just call it "the death of the author", rather than using French in the middle of an English statement for a term which has a widely used English name.

 

[IExistForThisPost]

Look, I don't even mind futas, it was just a side note I brought up to segue into discussing the lack of male characters, please don't focus on it ;_;

 

[Iara]

I guess this could be the slight "pet-peeves" thread? I just started playing after a long while and I am liking the tutorial rework, but there are slight things that annoy me.

In the tutorial, there is this one line: "Tutorial: In addition to Health and Resolve, your character has a green Experience bar next to his or her Resolve meter, and a Threat Gem in the upper right corner of the character card."
Why not just say "(...) green Experience bar next to their Resolve meter (...)"
Also I don't like how the "Tutorial" parts of the text are not highlighted, in different color, underscored, in brackers or whatever. Anything as long as it separates them from the "canonical" story text.

----------

Another pet-peeve... After you "follow the light" in the "Space Pups" scene in the Forest, there does not seem to be any way to fight back. You will get probed no matter what. There should be a way to fight back even if you follow the light, or at least a way to say no. How could I even predict what would happen? (Unless there is some plot point I have completely missed, but so far I have not seen anything mentioning this at all, and this is an extremely-easy event to find on your first run).

Same with the Witch scenes in the forest. It is one of the many undodgeable sexual scenes for first-time players.

 

[Alypia]

Another pet-peeve... After you "follow the light" in the "Space Pups" scene in the Forest, there does not seem to be any way to fight back. You will get probed no matter what. There should be a way to fight back even if you follow the light, or at least a way to say no. How could I even predict what would happen? (Unless there is some plot point I have completely missed, but so far I have not seen anything mentioning this at all, and this is an extremely-easy event to find on your first run).

Same with the Witch scenes in the forest. It is one of the many undodgeable sexual scenes for first-time players.

Welcome!

The "follow the light" scene is an April Fool's joke. However, there is always(1) a way to avoid getting sexed. The way for you to "fight back" is...not follow the light.

If by "the witch [...] in the forest" you mean Viviane, she doesn't auto-fuck you in the waking world. She auto-fucks you in your dreams. But it's just a dream. There are a lot of smutty dreams in this game.

(1) = Except during HiveQuest, but that whole quest is optional, so. Also, it's a fun sex scene and hornet ladies are sweeties.

 

[WolframL]

Since the April Fools scene came up a while back in a similar context, it bears pointing out that whichever path you go down, the event canonically does not happen. Assuming you have not done something completely avoidable* prior to it procing, you can see either version of the scene, check the character descriptions before and after and see that the Champion or Cait still has their buttginity intact.

* IE, don't jump on any dicks or lose to the very small number of encounters that will go after Cait's ass.

 

[Savin]

In the tutorial, there is this one line: "Tutorial: In addition to Health and Resolve, your character has a green Experience bar next to his or her Resolve meter, and a Threat Gem in the upper right corner of the character card."
Why not just say "(...) green Experience bar next to their Resolve meter (...)"

Because that's incorrect English.

But thanks for pointing out the tutorial text bit. It's SUPPOSED to be ALL BOLD. I'll bug the coders about that.

 

[Iara]

Because that's incorrect English.

But thanks for pointing out the tutorial text bit. It's SUPPOSED to be ALL BOLD. I'll bug the coders about that.

It is? I will trust you on it then. There must be a better way to refer to "his or her", though.

Welcome!

The "follow the light" scene is an April Fool's joke. However, there is always(1) a way to avoid getting sexed. The way for you to "fight back" is...not follow the light.

Since the April Fools scene came up a while back in a similar context, it bears pointing out that whichever path you go down, the event canonically does not happen. Assuming you have not done something completely avoidable* prior to it procing, you can see either version of the scene, check the character descriptions before and after and see that the Champion or Cait still has their buttginity intact.

* IE, don't jump on any dicks or lose to the very small number of encounters that will go after Cait's ass.

Oh, it must be part of the new update that allows the activation of seasonal events (which I totally love by the way, thanks a lot!). My suggestion, then, since this is a "joke" event, would be adding a small "warning" like akin to the likes of "you can't help but feel that, if you were to follow this mysterious light, something will happen to your asshole. You are just not sure what." Or something like that, I dunno! I just like being warned.

If by "the witch [...] in the forest" you mean Viviane, she doesn't auto-fuck you in the waking world. She auto-fucks you in your dreams. But it's just a dream. There are a lot of smutty dreams in this game.

(1) = Except during HiveQuest, but that whole quest is optional, so. Also, it's a fun sex scene and hornet ladies are sweeties.

Yeah it was those! I think I faintly remember in old versions that there was an "orgasm" stat? I do not remember. I will play a bit more and comment on here if I find Vivian again.
I am doing some runs: First run is puritan Dark mode, second is sexual Dark mode and third will be corrupt Dark mode.

 

[Savin]

There must be a better way to refer to "his or her", though.

Yeah it's just using "his" since English uses a masculine neuter.

 

[Iara]

Here is another gripe and pet-peeve.
That "woman" button. What does it mean? Shouldn't read something else? Shouldn't it read "Approach"? Why does it just say "Woman"? How do I "woman"?

 

[Tide Hunter]

Here is another gripe and pet-peeve.
That "woman" button. What does it mean? Shouldn't read something else? Shouldn't it read "Approach"? Why does it just say "Woman"? How do I "woman"?

Is there a tool-tip that describes it when you hover over the button? If yes, then it doesn't really matter if it says "woman" or "approach." Besides, not every button is a verb. There's appearance buttons and buttons that say "Brint" or "Cait" or "companions" or "Garth." Some buttons are verbs, but plenty are nouns.

 

[Iara]

Is there a tool-tip that describes it when you hover over the button? If yes, then it doesn't really matter if it says "woman" or "approach." Besides, not every button is a verb. There's appearance buttons and buttons that say "Brint" or "Cait" or "companions" or "Garth." Some buttons are verbs, but plenty are nouns.

Nope. There is no tooltip either in there. You can infer what it does because the other option has a tooltip.
But it is strange that this button only reads "woman", with no tooltip and no context at all.

 

[Taboo-Sho]

The fact that you gotta have a party in the early game if you wanna make progress.

 

[Tide Hunter]

The fact that you gotta have a party in the early game if you wanna make progress.

"early game"
Pretty much all throughout the game, you need a party for mostly everything, unless you go back to early game areas/fights with a much higher level. This party focus annoyed me a lot when I first began to play CoC2, but I've long since gotten used to the fact that this game is built around you having a party, because the Champion, despite being the most important member of the party in terms of combat and choices, is not a super-person like the champion of CoC or Steele in TiTS.

 

[Emerald]

The fact that you gotta have a party in the early game if you wanna make progress.

Not early game, the entire game is built around having a party.
You COULD solo everything, just don't expect it to be easy or for the devs to not make it difficult.

 

[Iara]

OK, here is a massive gripe... Alraune's end.

When you defeat her, there are only two options: You make her your slave (And must have sex with her) OR you kill her. No inbetween.
-There is no way to spare her without sex.
-Making her "your slave" does not increase corruption in any noticeable way (when in fact it should. She is a trainted being).

I would appreciate if there was a way to spare, and then ignore her. As well as more mention onto the corruption fact.

 

[Savin]

You COULD solo everything, just don't expect it to be easy or for the devs to not make it difficult.

Some dude on Discord just finished a solo virgin run all the way through Winter City, so props to that guy.

I would appreciate if there was a way to spare, and then ignore her.

No.

 

[Foxglove]

I mean, you CAN spare the Alraune and then ignore her. Just dominate her and then don't ever interact with her again.

 

[Iara]

No.

I know it is your game, your rules. But I was just saying. No need to be so aggressive.
Isn't this thread for that? For users to post their gripes.

I mean, you CAN spare the Alraune and then ignore her. Just dominate her and then don't ever interact with her again.

I meant without having to have sex with her.

 

[Tide Hunter]

No need to be so aggressive.

... He just said "No." That's not aggressive, that's just short and to the point.