Your gripes with CoC II

[WolframL]

So far the only gods we know we can bind ourselves to are Keros, Lumia and Nareva. Velun's a 'maybe' based on his being included in the wiki entry on perma-TFs (written by Tobs) but that's probably up in the air since I don't think they've settled on what Velun looks like now, so any TF is likely to be equally in flux and I don't think anyone on the team has talked about a Velun TF outside of that wiki page, unless it's on Discord somewhere. The other three gods all represent existing races with no obvious TF options (Tira is human, Mallach a catboy and Sorra a harpy) so they're unlikely. Savin mentioned two of those three in this older post.

Ryn - Lumia
Cait - Mallach
Kyoko - Keros
Everybody else we got no clue for if they even worship anybody at all.

Nareva is the patron of mages and scholars so if Berwyn worships anybody, it's probably her; I'm pretty sure he actually swears by her name at least once. Arona is definitely a Lumian, her older sister is even a priestess.

 

[Prent]

So far the only gods we know we can bind ourselves to are Keros, Lumia and Nareva. Velun's a 'maybe' based on his being included in the wiki entry on perma-TFs (written by Tobs) but that's probably up in the air since I don't think they've settled on what Velun looks like now, so any TF is likely to be equally in flux and I don't think anyone on the team has talked about a Velun TF outside of that wiki page, unless it's on Discord somewhere. The other three gods all represent existing races with no obvious TF options (Tira is human, Mallach a catboy and Sorra a harpy) so they're unlikely. Savin mentioned two of those three in this older post.

Nareva is the patron of mages and scholars so if Berwyn worships anybody, it's probably her; I'm pretty sure he actually swears by her name at least once. Arona is definitely a Lumian, her older sister is even a priestess.

Ah that's right, I completely forgot about Arona. You're right that if Berwyn worships anybody it would definitely be Nareva, I don't recall him ever swearing by her though.

 

[SmithEK]

So everyone is religious in this game?

 

[Lone Wolf115]

I wouldn't say everyone, there's at least a few NPCs, I'm not sure who then there's the Champion, unless you went for the acolyte background.

 

[WolframL]

There's a fair number of characters whose religious beliefs we either know or can assume (boer'alvar are either Lumian or follow the Old Wyld, orcs are Lumians, all floofs are Kerosites...) but there are others who simply never talk about it so we have no idea if they worship any particular one of the Seven. Given the backstory, I don't think there's anyone who genuinely disbelieves in the Seven; it's not quite as dangerous as being an atheist on the Discworld but it's pretty hard to make a cogent argument that they don't exist after the Godswar. Whether you consider them gods or not is entirely different, but most people don't know what they are. Keros and Mallach at least directly interact with some of their followers and Lumia speaks to some of hers along with creating valkyries. Nareva seems to show herself in Tychris at least and she's got her gothmanders to be reminders of her presence.

At most you'd probably have some people who are simply indifferent to the Seven.

 

[SmithEK]

So is Kas like a goddess to the demons/imps/whatever?

 

[WolframL]

Well, Tollus and his cult seem to think of her in similar terms, though Tollus is rethinking that because she's not acting the way he expected someone from the other side of the portal to act. Actually given the one journal entry it's pretty clear he doesn't think of the Seven as gods, but he's also bugfuck insane so it's hard to know whether he's privy to the true nature of the Seven or just thinks that Kas is more in line with his own ideas of what a god should be, so he lumps the Seven together as false gods on that basis.

Given that all demons are supreme egoists by definition, I doubt any of them would ever accept the idea of another one of them as a god, just someone who's more or less powerful than they are.

 

[wery12345]

Too add a little more onto what I said earlier, to me the perma TFs really dont carry weight unless they have something akin to like how the Keros one works with Kiyoko being there(never really dont it without her, someone needs to huff the fluff at moment of creation), Like there being a special variation for Ryn being there if you take Luminas. Gothmanders TF feels like it would really just be a champ wanting to be a gothmander because they think drinking spells like wine if cool.

 

[Prent]

Too add a little more onto what I said earlier, to me the perma TFs really dont carry weight unless they have something akin to like how the Keros one works with Kiyoko being there(never really dont it without her, someone needs to huff the fluff at moment of creation), Like there being a special variation for Ryn being there if you take Luminas. Gothmanders TF feels like it would really just be a champ wanting to be a gothmander because they think drinking spells like wine if cool.

Perhaps it would work better if Phyria and Philander made an appearance for that scene?

 

[Lone Wolf115]

Perhaps it would work better if Phyria and Philander made an appearance for that scene?

I doubt it they are frostmanders.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

Gothmanders TF feels like it would really just be a champ wanting to be a gothmander because they think drinking spells like wine if cool.

Spell wine is cool though. Also Nareva is 1 of 2 of the seven not on my shit list and I'd spite the rest by giving her my soul to tinker with.

Perhaps it would work better if Phyria and Philander made an appearance for that scene?

Maybe someday we'll be able to restore big tiddy frost fighter GF. And Philander too I guess.

Anyone else notice that all the gods and powerful figures don't have souls? Maybe the real meta could be rejecting the soul to embrace godhood. The only true way to raise the level cap to a reasonable 20 and beat Kas is to pull a Spider-Man and leave the soul in the trash where my IRL soul is. It's worked for everyone else so far.

 

[WolframL]

Like there being a special variation for Ryn being there if you take Luminas. Gothmanders TF feels like it would really just be a champ wanting to be a gothmander because they think drinking spells like wine if cool.

There probably will be one for Ryn, since she's in the same situation with the Champ as Kiyoko re: having a considerably longer lifespan and it would make sense for the valkyrie TF to do something similar.

For the gothmanders, while there isn't a huge age issue (maybe twenty years topcs for lupines/orcs, and wyld elves are likely to live longer than a 'mander partner) there's still probably something to be said for taking the TF step if you have a major 'mander character with potential marriage content. There's at least one potential character we know about that it might apply to in the form of Kythie. Assuming she's got marriage content (or even just some detailed romance) I imagine she'd appreciate the gesture on your part.

 

[Prent]

I doubt it they are frostmanders.

true, but they are also heavily intertwined with Nareva's story and are a big part of how you even meet her (for now? at least)

 

[Tide Hunter]

I doubt it they are frostmanders.

And Ryn is a Boreal Elf, rather than a Valkyrie, but that's still close enough.

 

[Spidereggs]

A couple of mobile-related gripes - one, on mobile, the shop interface gets really small, with the price and quantity fields overlapping and adjusting the quantity taking some finesse, and two, in many situations powers have their description cut short, making it difficult to make educated decisions about them.

 

[Burnerbro]

Velun's a 'maybe' based on his being included in the wiki entry on perma-TFs (written by Tobs) but that's probably up in the air since I don't think they've settled on what Velun looks like now, so any TF is likely to be equally in flux and I don't think anyone on the team has talked about a Velun TF outside of that wiki page, unless it's on Discord somewhere.

The sacred TF we can get from the Nature Grandpa will sadly not be one for becoming a deer-like dryad, because of the devs policy of no extra limbs. But getting a more expansive biped dryad and/or treeman TF would be cool, especially since as a plot significant and permanently binding TF we should get some powers out of it. And if Wsan will tie some special interactions for the dryad sisters into it, no matter how minor, I'll be pretty much set.


This reminds me, tho. What is the fairies' place in the hierarchy of Savarra's immortal beings?

 

[Raginmund]

treeman TF

Taking over Savarra, one splinter at a time.

 

[mikethor007]

But getting a more expansive biped dryad and/or treeman TF would be cool

I am Groot?

 

[Burnerbro]

Or a beefier and more chill version of Elaril with bark skin.

 

[Savin]

Just a note re: Gothmander TF -- Nareva's sanctum and everything associated with it are sandbagged behind writing Tychris, the frostmander homeland, which will include the opportunity to bed and perhaps even marry the city-state's heiress. It's not gonna be just Nareva showing up on your doorstep offering you a bargain for your soul

 

[Sontalak]

Most of my gripes that don't have to do with "this content is incomplete" (due to still being in development) relate to the limiting nature of character origins.

If I wanted to play a character with +1 to each of the 3 main attributes for their class, in most cases it's possible. Emphasis on most. But that locks in certain appearances. For example, unless the wiki is wrong / outdated. It's possible to change lip color to Black or Dark Green with TF Items (Brute Beat, Wolvesboon and Lycanthorn for Black, Grottato for Dark Green, but not back to Peach if you started at one of the 3 races that start that way (Human, Wyld Elf or Catfolk). Making any such transformation permanent, even though most of the TF items appear to assume a human default face. (and the TF items for those 3 races are in the game, but they don't revert that transformation).

Perhaps a minor nitpick in the grand scheme, but it does exist. (A possible fix to this specific example is to simply add an alchemical "permanent" lipstick consumable that can be purchased to make your lip color whatever you choose until you apply a different one.)

Also, 3 attribute combinations are just outright impossible to start with. (Cunning being locked to Scholar, which Warrior and Thief can't access, hurts combinations involving Cunning)

Attribute Combinations (I might be missing a few, but I tried to be exhaustive) Parenthetical next to each combination is just what I call these builds. MOST builds involving toughness are unnamed, because I rarely "define" a build or character concept by toughness as a stat.

Spoiler: Combinations

STRENGTH + TOUGHNESS + AGILITY (Warrior Classic)- Orc, Thief, Soldier. Lupine, Warrior, Hunter. Catfolk, Warrior, Soldier.
STRENGTH + TOUGHNESS + CUNNING (Gladiator / Dirty Fighter)- Not possible to start with this combination.
STRENGTH + TOUGHNESS + WILLPOWER (Crusader / Battle Mage)- Wyld Elf, Warrior, Soldier.
STRENGTH + TOUGHNESS + PRESENCE (Barbarian Warlord)- Lupine, Warrior, Noble Scion. Human, Warrior, Soldier.

TOUGHNESS + AGILITY + CUNNING (Unnamed as yet)- Combination Impossible
TOUGHNESS + AGILITY + WILLPOWER (Unnamed as yet)- Wyld Elf, Warrior, Hunter. Orc, Black Mage, Hunter. Orc, White Mage. Hunter.
TOUGHNESS + AGILITY + PRESENCE (Unnamed as yet)- Human, Warrior, Hunter

AGILITY + CUNNING + WILLPOWER (Spell Thief)- Catfolk, White Mage, Scholar. Catfolk, Black Mage, Scholar.
AGILITY + CUNNING + PRESENCE (Charmer Classic)- Catfolk, Charmer, Scholar.
AGILITY + CUNNING + STRENGTH (Thief Classic)- Combination Impossible (wut? Thief has Cunning as a core stat, and no options to start with +1?)

CUNNING + WILLPOWER + PRESENCE (Black Mage Classic)- Human, Black Mage, Scholar. Human, White Mage, Scholar.
CUNNING + WILLPOWER + STRENGTH (Warmage)- Lupine, Black Mage, Scholar. Lupine, White Mage, Scholar.
CUNNING + WILLPOWER + TOUGHNESS (Unnamed as yet)- Orc, Black Mage, Scholar. Orc, White Mage, Scholar.

WILLPOWER + PRESENCE + STRENGTH (Paladin)- Lupine, Black Mage, Noble Scion. Lupine, White Mage, Noble Scion.
WILLPOWER + PRESENCE + TOUGHNESS (White Mage Classic)- Orc, Black Mage, Noble Scion. Orc, White Mage, Noble Scion.
WILLPOWER + PRESENCE + AGILITY (Bard)- Catfolk, Black Mage, Noble Scion. Catfolk, White Mage, Noble Scion. Wyld Elf, Charmer, Hunter. Human, Black Mage, Hunter. Human, White Mage, Hunter

PRESENCE + STRENGTH + AGILITY (Sword Dancer)- Lupine, Thief, Noble Scion. Human, Thief, Soldier.
PRESENCE + STRENGTH + CUNNING (Ranger)- Lupine, Charmer, Scholar.
PRESENCE + STRENGTH + WILLPOWER (Warlock)- Lupine, Black Mage, Scholar. Lupine, White Mage, Scholar.

And because I don't like griping / complaining without offering solutions. A possible solution here would be to allow the Noble Scion origin to pick its attibute? (It's also very strange to me that Thief is the only "Classic Class" with absolutely 0 ability to actually start with +1 to all its base stats.)

Edit- Forgot several Agility combinations (forgot Hunter is open to all classes)

 

[wery12345]

Well there goes my issue of gothmander TF, having a companion/NPC to get attached to helps make the whole "selling your soul to gain some actual fucking benefits to a TF and basically tying yourself to them in ways you couldnt before" a lot better, was worried goth mommy would be like "gibe soul gain the ability to suck off magic, i mean absorb".

 

[Savin]

Yeah, while Tychris won't be as extensive in terms on sheer content volume as the Kitsune Den is, it'll have the same sort of reactivity between the NPCs acknowledging you're an Astrida.

 

[Alypia]

(A possible fix to this specific example is to simply add an alchemical "permanent" lipstick consumable that can be purchased to make your lip color whatever you choose until you apply a different one.)

You're in luck! The stylists in Hawkethorne offer several shades of lipstick.

 

[Sontalak]

That helps 1 part of the issue. Now, can I play a "True Thief" without doubling up on a starting attribute? (I don't care for "gouge" builds. Preferring to spread things out in a more balanced manner)

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

It's not gonna be just Nareva showing up on your doorstep offering you a bargain for your soul

That does sound like something Nareva would do though. If she weren't trying to maintain that pseudo regality and wisdom look of hers at least.

Is Tychris going to be gated behind acts, and if so which acts, or is it gonna be available with a level requirement? "Sorry Champion of Hawkethorne, but you must be this swole to enter the city of hot salamander people."

 

[Alypia]

That helps 1 part of the issue. Now, can I play a "True Thief" without doubling up on a starting attribute? (I don't care for "gouge" builds. Preferring to spread things out in a more balanced manner)

You can respec your attribute points at any class trainer, and I believe that this includes the three points associated with character creation.

 

[WolframL]

That helps 1 part of the issue. Now, can I play a "True Thief" without doubling up on a starting attribute? (I don't care for "gouge" builds. Preferring to spread things out in a more balanced manner)

Per Tobs, the character creation system is designed to cover a reasonable range of distributions, not all cases. The Backgrounds assigned to the class tend to focus on Agility because that's really the stat you're expected to build them around. The game in general encourages you to focus on a couple of stats rather than trying to be a jack of all trades.

It's possible to give them a setup that provides a +1 to different stats but you're gonna have to pick a Solder, Courtesan or Noble Scion background (and a starting race that is neither Catfolk nor whatever covers the stat your Background does) and I assume that not doing that is what you mean by a 'true Thief'.

 

[Alypia]

Also, +1 in a given stat does not matter that much. The backgrounds are primarily for roleplay and reactivity, not stat distribution.

 

[Savin]

Is Tychris going to be gated behind acts, and if so which acts, or is it gonna be available with a level requirement? "Sorry Champion of Hawkethorne, but you must be this swole to enter the city of hot salamander people."

Tychris is going to be locked behind either Champion of Frost or Champion of Hawkethorne titles. Once you have one of those, the royal family will send for you.