Your gripes with CoC II
- Thread starter Narmlet
- Start date
- Status
How long is a piece of string?
Never underestimate the power of your average person's mind goblins. They can and will dump all over their owners' fun unless countered by the devs' design choices.
Objectively speaking and coding aside, Ultimates are the only realistic reason to limit the amount of rests the party can perform per any given game day, but if the in-game time doesn't matter there is no solid design reasoning in favour of having the system as it is atm.
And Masturbation forced sleep is just straight up a bad a buffling design choice because it actively gates content behind skiping a ton of in-game time AND being in a specific location.
Objectively speaking and coding aside, Ultimates are the only realistic reason to limit the amount of rests the party can perform per any given game day, but if the in-game time doesn't matter there is no solid design reasoning in favour of having the system as it is atm.
And Masturbation forced sleep is just straight up a bad a buffling design choice because it actively gates content behind skiping a ton of in-game time AND being in a specific location.
The game intiger limit in days. Also sleep really isnt that important mechanic, even if I make my character beholdin to it, also I swear I only get 8:14 when it uses the Kiyoko brushing the mass of floof that is her tails.
All buffs aren't created equal, Etheryn's buff is god tier compared to most of the other companions because with the current late game being a constant damage race, initiative can determine the difference between life and death, and +10 represents almost doubling that stat for many of your party members.
Azzy's is circumstantially incredibly good for allowing the player to utilize the Pheromone damage weaknesses of some enemies.
Okay, yeah.
And this thread is definitely for relating that feedback, which is useful. I'm simply offering my own feedback on why I would prefer no change to most of these systems.There are plenty of reasons not to change a perfectly cromulent existing system, though. I mentioned several:
Y'all's complaints may be heartfelt, but there are actual reasons to keep the system the way it is. And despite being heartfelt, it's not clear to me that there's any intersubjective - "objectively speaking" isn't something that I take seriously - reason to address some of these particular complaints.
It genuinely does not matter if you take 14 days or 140 to grind up your EC or your XP. Your Champion does not get older. The main quest is not on a timer. Now, there is a good reason to have the day counter. It's mostly useful for pregnancy content and other events that are based on the passage of days from event to event. Pregnancy, which is one of this game's biggest draws, does not work without some sort of mechanism for passing large amounts of time. You need a day counter for that, and you need for it to be visible to the player. But what you don't need a day counter for is minimizing the amount of days spent in game or being "efficient" with the passage of time. It doesn't count down, it counts up, and there's a reason for that.
Now, yeah, for people who've been socialized toward various forms of maximizing efficiency in games, that's difficult to swallow, sure. But it's also true. That particular form of play isn't something that I, at least, see any need to cater to.
Then again, I don't think masturbation should automatically cause Champ to go to sleep. It's a little goofy to me, and not because it takes up "days". Like I said, days aren't super important. What is annoying is that a high-Libido Champ might masturbate to relieve their arousal, but immediately have blue balls again upon waking up. That wastes the player's time, not the character's, and the former actually has value.
That is true, but is also kind of a separate issue. The game balance is intended to be such that encounters can be completed without sleep buffs. (Or, for that matter, any buffs, like Well Fed or bento boxes.) Whether those buffs balance each other is a different story.
The in-progress balance pass on companions may resolve some of these concerns.
I don't know why, I just obsess over optimizing it, and I hate doing it, but I can't not do it. It's just a combination of it seeming like a waste of in-game time with a compulsion to do it because every single character I make will only release Kiyoko if she has nine tails, and I feel the need to reach that in the minimum number of in-game days, so I play the game but always need to sleep each night before 6 so that my characters can do another interaction.
Yeah, pretty much. The feeling sucks.
I dont really see the worth in waiting for 9 tails, even if theres a special version of the scene ill never see. Also I dont try to optimize days after I accidently had 5 events coincide and lose 5 days in a row.
That's unfortunate.
The mind goblins are real. I've got a few of my own, like how I make sure I have 10K EC before beating the Alraune so I can get a magicock straight off and use it for Ryn's confession. Dumb, but that's what I force myself to do.
Ah yeah, there are only scenes where player related scenes for players with a dick in Ryns introduction. Heh, such a turn of events has this last year been.That's unfortunate.
Last edited:
Speaking of Ryn, I hope we do not get punished for going into her low confidence route. Either by being locked out of her marriage or being forced to watch her become a demon. Since I am getting pretty worrisome signals from all recent Ryn talk.
That actually makes me wonder what a low confidence succubus Ryn would be like.
"P-please give me your immortal soul, champ-kun UwU."
I mean your keeping her in low confidence you shouldnt get to still be a happy go lucky champ with her, it would make sense low confidence is the corruption path.
I like going with the Cait option for Ryn's confession for almost all my runs, trust the experts and all that. There's plenty of time to worship the Royal Ring once she's calmed down. That said, it really would be nice to get one more scene there for Champs who either don't have a penis/ghostlight or who just don't want to use it at that point for whatever reason, letting us give Ryn some direct care.
Or possibly the decision gets pushed back a step and you have low-Confidence, Ryn's caged and some plot event happens where you can choose to throw her to Kasyrra or some other demon and that's what causes her to go demon herself.
None of this is definite of course but I don't think it's likely that it's going to be a straight case of 'If Confidence >X at point Y, then Demon Ryn'.
wild-ass guessing theory about how the transformation would go down is even remotely accurate, I'm guessing that it won't matter much because she's going to be quite put out at the Champ and her third action (after shapeshifting out of the cage and dealing with the wooziness from having blood diverted south for the first time in forever) is going to be to test out her new body by fucking the Champ sideways.
After that point.... eh, I'm not sure really.
Based on the signals we're getting, I suspect that Ryn's demonification would require not only low Confidence but that you deliberately dick her over with the cage. For example, imagine that you're able to obtain it but are given a choice to 'lose' it in a way that can't be proven to be deliberate. That would be an asshole thing to do but would keep her in her existing state, while an alternate option would be to very obviously tell Ryn you're not going to free her and that is what pushes her over the edge.
Or possibly the decision gets pushed back a step and you have low-Confidence, Ryn's caged and some plot event happens where you can choose to throw her to Kasyrra or some other demon and that's what causes her to go demon herself.
None of this is definite of course but I don't think it's likely that it's going to be a straight case of 'If Confidence >X at point Y, then Demon Ryn'.
On the assumption that my
After that point.... eh, I'm not sure really.
Last edited:
Yeah I 100% expect if you want low confidence Ryn your gonna have to expect every interaction they add for it to be teetering on the edge of corruption/demonization. Cause this is the one case where I cant see why people want her like that, even I see the merit in wanting the walking symbol of fuck that is Kas.(even though its a route i'll never go down so seeing that new extra tile above near the orc camp is kinda just an annoyance, hope we get the ability to destory it to piss off Kas)
Forum talk is just talk.
It's worth pointing out that Ryn already has corrupt content: high Libido, low Confidence. Does that make a demonhood path for her less likely? More likely? No effect?
Since I have not recently checked, how is low confidence high libido more corrupt thab other 2 lowcon routes? I mean, I could understand why low low can be seen as neutral. Since from games perspective, that can just mean you have not interacted with her. But what about low con- mid libido?Forum talk is just talk.
It's worth pointing out that Ryn already has corrupt content: high Libido, low Confidence. Does that make a demonhood path for her less likely? More likely? No effect?
Ryn's Libido doesn't have the same range of parsers as her Confidence, instead it seems like checks for it take the form of [etheryn.libido.X] where X is whatever threshold the writer wants to use. 31+ seems to be the threshold for 'mid' Libido for lack of a better term (that's when her Frost Hound/Camp interactions visibly change) but there are some checks for 50+ and then 70 and 75 seem to be considered 'high' as there are checks for those values as well in her design doc.
The reason that low-Con high-Libido Ryn is a sort of 'corrupt' path is that in that state she's got no self-esteem, will do anything the Champ tells her to and starts to think that she deserves whatever Alissa did/the Champ does to her. And you have to push her into that because her starting Libido is, like, 10 or so and you need to make her do things she obviously doesn't want to do in order to get her there and act in a way that doesn't show any consideration for her feelings or enjoyment of the sex.
The reason that low-Con high-Libido Ryn is a sort of 'corrupt' path is that in that state she's got no self-esteem, will do anything the Champ tells her to and starts to think that she deserves whatever Alissa did/the Champ does to her. And you have to push her into that because her starting Libido is, like, 10 or so and you need to make her do things she obviously doesn't want to do in order to get her there and act in a way that doesn't show any consideration for her feelings or enjoyment of the sex.
Last edited:
This makes me wonder how much being horny and subby leads to a person succumbing to the corruption more easily than someone who is a domineering and strong-willed. The design doc states explicitly that we shouldn't make such assumptions, but I can't see how those traits can not make the character in question more succeptible to the influence of people who actively seek to corrupt him. In extreme cases like high libido/low confidence Ryn it outright leads to the character being far less grounded in their understanding of their self and adamant about any moral values they may hold, which greases the slippery slope towards demonhood very effectively.
I very much appreciate you being so polite and helpful, laying out clearly the points you bring up. However IMO those aren't airtight or even very compelling arguments for the current system. Right now the ideas of a distinct day/night cycle and NPC schedules get reinforced very unevenly, with even hub NPCs having some major exceptions among them (Aurera and Claire in Hawkthorne and no encounters in the field caring one iota about what time of day it is. So if those are imortant considerations for the devs as long as it doesn't inconvenience the player in major ways, I think those inconsistencies should be tidied up. More importantly, I don't see how the player being able to sleep at random hours will get in the way of creating a believable enough illusion of a non-static, lived in world with NPCs sticking to their believable schedules. Which leaves only writer convenience, and while it is always a worthwhile consideration, I'm not convinced that it trumps extra player convenience in this particular case.
I'm glad that you agree with the coplaints against the current implementation of masturbation in the game. Hopefully it will get looked at again at some point.
Alissa turned into a demon long before Ryn, just sayin'
Lone Wolf115
Well-Known Member
Imps, Demons, Dragon generals, dosen't matter to me what I kill let them come.
If you have played Skyrim you will get it.
But would have that been the case if she didn't manage to run away? I don't see why a combination of magic and continued coercion wouldn't have allowed Alissa to crack poor Ryn and made her a demon right alongside her own transformation - provided she wouldn't want to keep Ryn around as a mortal pet.
She knows some next level tantric techniques - and has a very talented tail. Speaking of which, the current lack of scenes where PC can use their sufficiently thick and nimble tail in that way is a bummer.
Edit: ninjad by the devman.
Savin is saying that she was a demom, as in evil person, long before Kas showed up. Our big bad was just there to push former queen to undertake her much needed makeover for her truly to revel in it without any preconceptions of acting like royalty.
Last edited:
Hmm sorry to reply late to this, but is there a specific reason why in your post the training issue wasn't addressed? It seems as though only specific points were addressed.
The training issue in question, as seen here:
Regardless, I understand that the current implementation of the sleep function has it's intended use, but it also feels a bit weird in certain instances to force the PC to sleep through specific events (i.e. training, masturbation etc). If it's meant to feel as an optional thing that can be done for specific purposes (buffs, level ups etc) then it should theoretically remain consistent as such. By having forced instances of sleep it then feels as such, forced - therefore not being consistent with the "optional" attitude regarding it.
Time may not be canon within the game's scope itself, but dismissing others' view of "wasted" time as not particularly relevant due to it not being canon doesn't make sense to me (in my opinion). If one was to not want to sleep at all (bar level ups) then that should also be theoretically possible - however it isn't due to the nature of which training is done - as well as other such specific events, such as sexing Kiyoko once she has been freed from the Astral Plane or sexing Atugia in her "Romance" sex scene (which is also seemingly currently bugged).
That would then make it rather challenging from a player perspective to truly identify the "canonized" time only being a few months, if specific occurrences force time advancement in a manner which doesn't necessarily reflect it's "optional" nature. Meta understanding of the game and its time scope might be one thing, but using that in place to explain away specific interactions that don't seem to reflect that in-game may not always be relevant (nor make sense, in my opinion).
To further expand what I mean in the above passage, at the moment I could pick a specific Class and get enough XP and EC (for level ups and gear) to reach the maximum level cap within around 7 - 9 days depending. However, the actual level up process would take 5 definitive days (as of level 6), not to mention the learning of additional Class related Powers (which would actually result in around 14+ additional "wasted" days due to the seemingly buggy nature of the post training sleep sessions). This detracts from the optional nature of said sleep function, as it's not entirely optional when it comes to Powers relating to ones class, unless one likes to be challenged on that front (by not having all the Powers relating to their Class).
The level ups are understandable in of itself, as it's consistent with other such games, but the nature of forcing the advancement of time in order to "learn" something, when time is not particularly "canon" seems a bit weird (in my opinion). Like it's only done so to appease some sense of reality, when time advancing in of itself is apparently of no consequence. That would lead me to ask, then what's the point of doing so in the first place? If it's to be "optional" to sleep (aside from level ups) then why force sleep instances via specific events / interactions? Would that then be defended by saying that the instances of forced sleep are entirely "optional" in of themselves?
Cait gets away with shagging Lusamine (who doesn't shag pure females) and she gets to help Ryn, I don't care if she's a whore, as long as our champs have fingers there's no reason why pure female PCs couldn't help the Elf..
Lone Wolf115
Well-Known Member
Well Cait is just proving a point and Lusamine was insulting her faith so. I agree about pure PCs.
- Status