Your gripes with CoC II

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Savin

Master Analmander
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Aug 26, 2015
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Makes me curious why you guys decided against a system similar to TiTS's one for storing info on PC's original appearance they can pass down to the offspring.
The PC in this game can start as a member of several different races, which necessitates that either pregnancy ends up being horribly complex (you're not making human/whatever hybrids but potentially one of five starting race/whatever hybrids) or else we have to take the PC out of the equation entirely. And since the whole plot of the game is pinned on the PC being a mutagenic blob anyway, that seemed to be the way to go.
 

CitrusWolf

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2020
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Vaginas getting no love when it comes to ovi content is a pretty big bummer, by design and with no plans for changing it
You'll be happy to know that I am trying to write an NPC that features vaginal ovi content! the only problem now is that I might not be good enough of a writer to get in the game but even so an attempt was made (and a possible commission for an actual writer too when I get a job) oh another problem is that you might not be into him but I'll burn that bridge when I get to it
 

Bast

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2021
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Why put Ambra on the same tile as the waystone where it's harder to "find" her? I don't get it.
 

wery12345

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Aug 1, 2021
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Character implications if I had to guess, and just to annoy people to be more honest.
 

HugLife

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Aug 7, 2018
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Why does that make her harder to find -- you literally cannot miss her and she's immediately there whenever your waystone in.
Most other NPCs aren't positioned directly on a waystone, with the only real exceptions being River and the Shrine Maidens. As a consequence, we're not really trained to look for more NPCs on waystone spaces; most of the time I just think "That's the space where I fast travel and change my team", rather than "That's a space where new content might be".
 

wery12345

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I always look at the waystone tiles interactions, Figured that might happen a few times considering River was there.
 

SmithEK

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Apr 20, 2021
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I thought it was a good surprise, wasn't expecting anyone on the waystone square so when I saw the kitten/kitsune (could be, couldn't be?) I got excited.
 
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wery12345

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Waystones outside of the shrine exists to host smol catfolk, my gripe will be is there isnt one for the wayfort, theres only a very fucking big and blue cat.
 

MyNameJ3ff

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Aug 29, 2021
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I made an account just to vent how frikkin frustrating it is to use kiyoko in the current end game. extremely low threat does nothing when she gets one shot or two shot by everything! it wouldnt be so bad if the single target one shot abilities like shellcracker and overhead slam actually targetted the high threat target all the time, but nope, kiyoko somehow manages to eat them with next to 0 threat. Either buff her armor (20ish armor? seriously?) or buff threat to be more impactful in enemy targetting mechanics
 

wery12345

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I use mirror stance which the threat it generates tends to make enemies completely ignore my allies Kiyoko included. I dont think have red threat will always guarantee they wont get hit.
 
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Bast

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Aug 12, 2021
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Why does that make her harder to find -- you literally cannot miss her and she's immediately there whenever your waystone in.
The game teaches us to look for certain symbols when looking for NPCs. The Waystone symbol isn’t one of them.

I’m fairly certain that many people will walk past her the first few times when entering Khor’Minos with all the new stuff that’s there.
 
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MyNameJ3ff

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Aug 29, 2021
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I use mirror stance which the threat it generates tends to make enemies completely ignore my allies Kiyoko included. I dont think have red threat will always guarantee they wont get hit.
try fighting earth elemental in undertunnels. or any single fights. Red threat on your tank round 1? nope, overhead smash for kiyoko and friend.
 

Bast

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Aug 12, 2021
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try fighting earth elemental in undertunnels. or any single fights. Red threat on your tank round 1? nope, overhead smash for kiyoko and friend.
Initial combat aggro for tanks really is extremely low in this game. That’s correct. I’ve seen others point out that flaw as well.
 
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mikethor007

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Jun 26, 2021
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try fighting earth elemental in undertunnels. or any single fights. Red threat on your tank round 1? nope, overhead smash for kiyoko and friend.
Most of the time I just run from that fight. Paltry XP and Electrum payoff. Never dropped any loot for me.

When I don't run, I just wallop it with Banishment. BOOM, elemental gone.

Or Celestial Smite, takes a huge chunk off of it in my experience.
 
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MyNameJ3ff

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Most of the time I just run from that fight. Paltry XP and Electrum payoff. Never dropped any loot for me.

When I don't run, I just wallop it with Banishment. BOOM, elemental gone.

Or Celestial Smite, takes a huge chunk off of it in my experience.
sure. but that wasnt the point of my post.
 
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wery12345

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Well im pretty sure the rock elemental(need to check it myself) is like level 7/8 while were still waiting for the level cap increase, which might be to 8 soon considering a move I stole from the recent public patch was that. But of course there gonna run our shit if there a level or 2 higher then us.
 
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Mad Dog

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Jun 1, 2018
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What's the point of the [Aim Away] option during Asani's riding scene if you get hosed down anyways?
 

_Yobimbo_

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Aug 31, 2021
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My biggest gripe is the corruption aspect, I feel like it's way too easy to stay pure. I started a new role-playing playthrough for a champion that starts out as a paladin-ish character that struggles with corruption but I've completed most of the non-undermountain content & I've never even gotten past 15. I play on the 'dark' difficulty and the enemies that give corruption on defeat are still pushovers aside from the occasional crit & having to actively throw fights is less fun for me. The choices that affect corruption are usually '100% good' or "100% dick move' with no in between so there's rarely any justification for choosing the latter unless your champion is already a dick. Then, even if you manage to get past 'Pure' there's 4 easy ways to constantly lower corruption, 3 of which are in static, easy to reach locations, & 1 gives a 24-hour buff for basically free as well. And I know it's probably a game design choice but the fact that there's only a few forced transformations that aren't bad ends is a bit of a bummer considering the Champion is so malleable & that it's happened to a lot of NPCs.

And my 2 other smaller gripes is that Tui feels really useless, she can't do the damage or healing to actually keep aggro & even if she could it doesn't really matter cause the AI just attacks whatever it wants anyway; in contrast to Brint/Brienne & Arona who can draw aggro & tank damage while still being able to do damage themselves. And Brienne seems really needy to me compared to all the other companions & it's a bit annoying, but it's easily avoidable & I guess the quest kind of gives you a warning on how she'll act so it's whatever.
 

Swaggernaught

Member
Aug 31, 2021
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One gripe is that in order to be able to access certain unique scenes/bad ends again, I need a separate save for that. I should probably just start saving to file so I have unlimited savefiles so this isn't really a big gripe.


Another minor gripe is how much corruption score you get. A half corrupt centaur does the nasty with you? 2 points. You have a good time with the painted demon? 2 points. Bunch of demonic cultists in the rift get you? 2 points. Gangbanged by a bunch of imps? 1 point. Lay with the demon queen herself in her home? 1 point. Trying to ford a river and get defeated by those cultists? 5 points!

Seems a bit inconsistent at times.
 

mikethor007

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Jun 26, 2021
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One gripe is that in order to be able to access certain unique scenes/bad ends again, I need a separate save for that. I should probably just start saving to file so I have unlimited savefiles so this isn't really a big gripe.


Another minor gripe is how much corruption score you get. A half corrupt centaur does the nasty with you? 2 points. You have a good time with the painted demon? 2 points. Bunch of demonic cultists in the rift get you? 2 points. Gangbanged by a bunch of imps? 1 point. Lay with the demon queen herself in her home? 1 point. Trying to ford a river and get defeated by those cultists? 5 points!

Seems a bit inconsistent at times.
Banging Kas in the dream palace yielding only one point is sorta understandable. so people can repeat the scenes to their heart's content without penalizing them too much.
 

WolframL

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Feb 12, 2020
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Another thing, the Tainted Witch encounter is something you only need to do once because you can use Waystones (and later the repaired bridge) to bypass it while all those other encounters are very easily repeatable.

Now I do think that as the game goes on we should probably start getting repeatable encounters that give more Corruption as it's spreading through the region, but the generally low gains in the early game make decent sense as a balancing mechanism for players who don't want to get theirs too high, since getting rid of it can be expensive at the very start.
 

wery12345

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Corruption is way harder to get rid of then it is to gain it still, unless Kohaku is involved because winterstem.
 

_Yobimbo_

Member
Aug 31, 2021
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Corruption is way harder to get rid of then it is to gain it still, unless Kohaku is involved because winterstem.
I'd say that's only applicable for the corrupted or demonic levels of corruption. For pure & tainted unless you chug virility boosters & fuck Kas at every opportunity the free -3 from Zo, the -1+Halved corruption gain for 100 EC from Brother Sanders, the corruption losses from quests/other non-repeatable encounters, & the occasional fountain goddess encounter is enough.
 
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Blueboy

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Dec 7, 2020
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And my 2 other smaller gripes is that Tui feels really useless, she can't do the damage or healing to actually keep aggro & even if she could it doesn't really matter cause the AI just attacks whatever it wants anyway; in contrast to Brint/Brienne & Arona who can draw aggro & tank damage while still being able to do damage themselves.
If it's Atugia you are talking about then yeah she is kinda weak in the damage department, but she shines as a tank for resolve battles of which there are few, and is the only character besides the pc able to divert damage to themselves so I'd argue that she does a better job at being a tank than Brint/Brienne and Arona. Her healing is also laughing to laugh at.
 

Tide Hunter

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May 4, 2019
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CoC2's sleep is pretty weird. It seems to be in a midpoint between CoC's sleep and TiTS's sleep, in that you can start it at any time like that of TiTS, but it will always deposit you at the same time like CoC. I do not like this. In CoC, it makes sense to have sleep function as it does because of the game's mechanics. Sleep is the full heal you have after a full day of exploring, encountering foes and trekking through dungeons. You always return to your camp after a random encounter, the world literally bending just to keep your journeys consistent in their times. It's where you sleep, where you store and use items, where your followers go. It's the home base, and there's a lot to be doing all day while there is a guarantee that you will be back in time for bed. So, it makes sense to restrict sleeping so it is only accessible at after a certain start time, and it makes sense to have it end at the start of a new day.

In TiTS, your ship serves most of the same roles as the camp. You have item storage, you have followers/crewmembers who sit there, you have your bed, you have a hub menu that takes you to different areas which can host random or set encounters. There is, however, a crucial difference: You don't return to your ship after every random encounter. You don't need to be there to use items like transformatives or consumables, or to equip your weapons and armor. In CoC, the camp is where you return to all the time, but in TiTS, you only return to your ship when you need it. If you need to sleep, whether for soreness, for healing, for energy restoration, for levelling up, or just to pass the time. If you want to interact with crewmates, masturbate, store items, or travel to another planet. The ship is a hub, but only one you return to when you need to, not all the time. So, because you're not on a super-strict time schedule in TiTS (and also because there's healers on many planets that don't need you to sleep, and resting a few hours is good for restoring energy), it makes sense to have Sleep be a loose thing, where you can do it whenever and it just lasts a few hours. It's a utility, a tool you use when you need it rather than an endpoint to each day and a fresh start for the next.

To me, it seems that CoC2's sleep wants to be CoC's sleep, but the game it is built into is much more like TiTS. Even ignoring all the weirdness with what makes the champ autosleep (The trainings are extremely fucked, as I said two pages ago, and I'm amazed that masturbation still hasn't been changed to allow the champ to stay awake after flicking their nipples or stroking their cock), we can see why I say that CoC2 wants to have CoC's sleep: The first and most obvious is that it has set times. You will always wake up at 8 (well, the actual time you wake up seems to be randomized to be between and including 8 and 8:14), and if you go to sleep or masturbate after 6 you instead wake up 26 hours later at the 8 am the next day. The second is that most npcs in Hawkethorne stop working after a certain time. I think they go to sleep a bit too early since it prevents you from selling stuff off and turning in some quests (and also blocks training), but it's logical that they sleep, helps instill the idea of a living world (even if it's annoying), and it does incentivize just going to sleep since your interactions are limited. The third is that the level three perks only activate on sleep. I have my own niggles with these, namely that they do very little and only last for such a short time that by the time I get into any encounters they've usually worn off or will wear off by the next (as such I kinda just want their timers to be extended), and also since the shopkeeps disappear at night that means that the time for shopping is the morning and midday, which is also when the buff is active, but still, you can see that the perks incentivize going to sleep after they wear off to reapply them.

So, what about the game being structured like TiTS? As it is in TiTS, you don't return to the Frost Hound after every random encounter, you only return after a long time of adventuring. If it weren't for Kiyoko, I would not pay attention to the time, or when to sleep. There are several ways to heal, both through npc interactions like Sander or Cait, or through combat powers like Heal or Eternal Light, so this goes even further than TiTS by making you not even need to return to a civilization to heal. In terms of exploration, every tile takes like 40 minutes to travel, and you're traveling through a lot of tiles. It's fewer tiles than TiTS, but I think each movement represents much more time than in TiTS too, so a lot of time is passing. You're not guaranteed to be back at Hawkethorne in time to sleep, unless you're budgeting the time out so you get back at 5:30 (like I do, because of Kiyoko). Since sleeping to heal really just is not needed, and since the buffs have such small effects that I literally can not notice how they help in combat, and since consumables can be used and items can be equipped at any time, there's little need to return to the inn or to set up camp. As a result of this, sleep should be a tool to level up and be an alternative tool for healing, but instead of having it just be a set amount of time like TiTS, it has a set endpoint and a maximum start point. The game mechanics are better suited for a TiTS sleep, but the player is expected to sleep at a set time like CoC.

The only reason I sleep, aside from leveling up, is because of Kiyoko. When it comes to her, however, she doesn't really benefit from the CoC2 style sleep. She doesn't have a set interaction time, she just appears whenever you sleep, so if you want to interact with her prior to freeing her, you're either going to put it off until after some time adventuring, or you're going to binge-sleep. Because I don't like the idea of wasting so much in-universe time on one sleep interaction, when the value for in-universe time could go up by adventuring until 5:30 in the morning and then sleeping all this leads to is 2 hour sleeps, every single day. If it's a TiTS sleep, then I wouldn't feel as pressed about constantly making sure I'm back by then, and instead just focus on actually experiencing the game, adventuring, and sometimes using the sleep function. It really seems inconsequential, but the set sleep times combining with Kiyoko's sleep visiting makes the game feel actively worse, because I feel like I have to constantly maximize how much time I use on interactions, events, and encounters each day rather than just having fun. It makes me want to optimize the fun out of the experience, just so that I don't waste time. This would not happen if CoC2's sleep had the same mechanics as TiTS's sleep.
 

Alypia

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Apr 22, 2016
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The third is that the level three perks only activate on sleep. I have my own niggles with these, namely that they do very little and only last for such a short time that by the time I get into any encounters they've usually worn off or will wear off by the next (as such I kinda just want their timers to be extended), and also since the shopkeeps disappear at night that means that the time for shopping is the morning and midday, which is also when the buff is active, but still, you can see that the perks incentivize going to sleep after they wear off to reapply them.
The sleep buffs start at wakeup (0800ish) and go for 12 hours (until 2000, a few hours after most shopkeeps are closed). They basically extend for the full length of an actual working day, and then some. You can find more than one or two encounters in that time. You can find a lot of encounters in that time. The length of the sleep buffs isn't the problem here.

A perfectly normal CoC2 day for the Champion can start with waking up, then a dozen hours of Normal Adventurer Stuff, whatever that is to you: selling off inventory, buying other inventory, beating up mooks, sexing mooks, doing quests, etc. Then, in the evening, after the sleep buffs wear off, you have some time to do any companion sex scenes you want, if any, before going to bed and waking up again, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, for more of the same. That...feels like a fairly reasonable use of a day to me. It's not mandatory, but nothing in there sounds like a waste of time or a poorly placed event.
Since sleeping to heal really just is not needed, and since the buffs have such small effects that I literally can not notice how they help in combat, and since consumables can be used and items can be equipped at any time, there's little need to return to the inn or to set up camp. As a result of this, sleep should be a tool to level up and be an alternative tool for healing, but instead of having it just be a set amount of time like TiTS, it has a set endpoint and a maximum start point. The game mechanics are better suited for a TiTS sleep, but the player is expected to sleep at a set time like CoC.
You're not "expected" to do anything. The sleep buffs are an entirely optional part of the experience. So are sleep-withs, dreams, Kiyoko, and so on. If you want to go around adventuring and never sleep save when you level up, that is perfectly fine. If you prefer having the RP, the sleep-with scenes, the buffs, or any other aspect of the sleep-related content, then that is also perfectly fine. And if you want to wait until five in the morning to go to sleep rather than doing it at nine at night, that's also fine.

The current sleep system is an attempt to combine a certain amount of verisimilitude (meaningful difference between night and day, characters outside the Champion's party seem to have their own lives and schedules independent of the Champion, sleeping is actually good for you, sleeping around the normal times is good for you) with concessions to a certain level of player convenience (the player is not forced to go to sleep save to level up, the player can stay up late before going to bed) and writing (sleeping results in a consistent wakeup time).
It really seems inconsequential, but the set sleep times combining with Kiyoko's sleep visiting makes the game feel actively worse, because I feel like I have to constantly maximize how much time I use on interactions, events, and encounters each day rather than just having fun. It makes me want to optimize the fun out of the experience, just so that I don't waste time. This would not happen if CoC2's sleep had the same mechanics as TiTS's sleep.
Why does time spent per day have any meaning to you? The day counter doesn't matter in-game except as a way for the player to tell how much time has elapsed between events (e.g. between conception and birth). You're not racing the clock. If you spend the canonical two or three months on a single save, that's fine. If you spend four hundred years in-game, that's also fine. This feels like a you problem, not a gameplay problem.
 
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