Your gripes with CoC II

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Majulla

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Feb 20, 2020
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But what still feels off about it even after getting used to the party setup is that there doesn't really feel like there are any corruption-oriented companions.

From what I remember, there is going to be an option to corrupt your companions; I believe Wsan mentioned it when speaking about Brint. No idea on the ETA though. All good things take time.
 

WolframL

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Feb 12, 2020
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There's also something like this for Ryn right now. Savin's mentioned that she's got two stats that dictate her personality (Libido and an invisible confidence meter) and it's going to have a noticeable effect on the Winter City content. Right now you can build her up by making her more confident (to the point that she's looking forward to punching the sister she was previously terrified of the next time they meet) or you can break her down even more and basically give her a wicked victim complex where she comes to think she deserves the degradation. If you're a horrible person. :p (loads up a save to give Ryn a hug and cuddle, just because)
 

Narmlet

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Mar 8, 2019
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there's two little random scenes that I really dont like: finding a metalpile in Foothills & finding a wheat field in H.valley.
Like ud expect to get some resources from them(the wheatfield scene actually mentions ur party collecthing wheat for food) but they give nothin('specially when ur tryin to gather some metal for a little caparisson)
 
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Savin

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there's two little random scenes that I really dont like: finding a metalpile in Foothills & finding a wheat field in H.valley.
Like ud expect to get some resources from them(the wheatfield scene actually mentions ur party collecthing wheat for food) but they give nothin('specially when ur tryin to gather some metal for a little caparisson)

Noted.
 
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William.

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Not a fan of sex dreams. I like having control over what sex scenes I get and sex dreams just take that control away.

Out of curiosity, what if you had sexy dreams that only came from sleeping with characters you preferred to sex, or after doing something in those instances?
 

flying_moustache

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Aug 30, 2015
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Out of curiosity, what if you had sexy dreams that only came from sleeping with characters you preferred to sex, or after doing something in those instances?

I wasn't the one being asked, but I see howlbenders point.

Being shown sexy dreams at random, will cause for some dreams to "miss" the taste of the player and that is annoying, because those dreams will continue to show up. On the other hand, there's a certain excitement to dreams as you don't know what you are going to get, so completely deactivating them would be a bummer as well.

I don't know how difficult to code it would be, but my preferred middle ground would be to decide on a per dream basis. Add a single button that says "That one didn't hit the mark, I would prefer not to see it again. Thank you."

Skipping a dream you don't appreciate ONCE is reasonable enough to ask of the player (imo) and everyone will end up with only dreams they like.
 

Akhter13

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Aug 30, 2015
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You can just get an item that takes care of that.
I understand that this is a bit off topic but...
Did I hear that prolonged use of said device leads to a special dream encounter, or was that just fevered delusion on my part?
 

Savin

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I understand that this is a bit off topic but...
Did I hear that prolonged use of said device leads to a special dream encounter, or was that just fevered delusion on my part?

Not that I'm aware of, but that doesn't mean it ain't so.
 

Tide Hunter

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May 4, 2019
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I personally feel like there isn't really much of a point to attacks/abilities that deal damage split between physical and mental. For things like the normal Tail Whack, I can understand not wanting to make it as strong as a normal attack, because it's an on-command ability you can get very easily, so letting it deal damage equal to your normal attack and also adding on tease damage would make it a straight upgrade to your normal attack.

Except, Duelist's Stance for the thief adds evasion and sexiness, along with an automatic counter-attack if an opponent targets you and misses, and since it also generates threat, that means you're probably going to get a free attack while drawing attention away from your allies, and also it's a stance so you can set it and forget it to gain more damage overall. Also, Charge Weapon for the White Mage may be for a class that focuses on spells, but it still adds a bunch of damage to all of your weapon's attacks while dealing group damage when cast. Bolstering Dance is a stance, and it is constant (albeit low) regeneration to your party's resolve stat, while also giving you evasion, and Song of Courage heals your allies and gives everyone a buff to several stats, including damage. Arcane Shot is a side-grade, but because it's a side-grade it's basically an upgrade against certain foes. Frost Arrow requires a specific weapon to use, but it's otherwise literally just a stronger weapon attack. Ranger's Stance is a trade-off, but it still buffs your attacks.

If you equip the Tail Whack at-will ability, you miss out on using any of these at-will abilities, most of which are buffs or just straight up better than your normal attack, and you deal less damage. At level one, using only the starting equipment for a Warrior, and starting as a Lupine, a normal attack did 36 damage, a normal tease did 26 resolve damage, and a Tail Whack did 23 physical and 17 resolve against Ninian. Sure, the Tail Whack did more combined damage, a total of 40, but if you're fighting an enemy you're likely going to go with either dealing only physical damage or only resolve damage, because there's no benefit to dealing tease damage if you're going to beat them by reducing their hp to 0, and there's no benefit to dealing physical damage if you're going to win by reducing their resolve to 0. Thusly, the ordinary Tail Whack is overall worse than literally anything else you can do, if you have it equipped. However, I also think that buffing Tail Whack would only create a new problem, if it's better than anything else you could do. Except, that's already the case with several at-will abilities, which were mentioned before, being good, including the Frost Arrow, which is, in every situation, better than just making a normal weapon attack.

Moving away from Tail Whack, a different example of split damage is Atugia. I like Atugia, as a character, and I would love to have her in the party, especially since she has the Guarded Stance at-will power and a few abilities that do some healing to allies, meaning that I could swap Cait out for a character that tanks for the party and has minor healing capabilities (since it's basically a necessity in this game to have at least one party member be a healer in some capacity). Unfortunately, every attack she has, including her basic attack, deals split damage between physical and resolve. Her kit is practically perfect for a tank: Her Guarded Stance indicates that she's a party's tank, supposed to generate high threat so the squishier damage dealers won't take damage. Her Eternal Light is a slow-acting heal, indicating party members that do take damage should only do it rarely. Her ultimate, Shell, is a massive indicator, since it gives her a lot of health and gives her a high Threat level, basically the perfect tank ability. Her Ancestral Judge grants her a short increase to resistance and prevents her from getting stunned. Her Echoes Life ability heals everyone (sustaining them if the foe decides to ignore her) while dealing aoe damage (more threat tends to be generated from multi-target damage) and applies a debuff.

The fly in the ointment here is that my black mage turn-one fireballs, then turn-two lightning spikes, and turn-three withering bolts (and also usually at some point summons Kiyoko). Brint turn-one Cleaves (I control each action my party members take), turn-two uses Giant Reach, and turn-three Executes. Meanwhile, Atugia turn-one uses Guarded Stance, turn-two Echoes Life, and turn-three either Eternal Lights my black mage character or uses Ancestral Judge. The issue is, Atugia deals extremely low damage, and Guarded Stance takes a turn to set up. So, by the time Atugia gets to do anything, Fireball and Cleave have already generated massive amounts of threat, because they're both very high damage AOE attacks. Then, Lightning Spike deals guaranteed damage and may surge, dealing AOE damage again, while Brint's Giant Reach hits a single target like a truck. So, Echoes Life may be AOE damage, but even with the extra threat generation from Guarded Stance, because Echoes Life deals incredibly low damage (which I attribute to it being split between physical and resolve), Atugia ends the turn with the least threat of the entire team. In the third turn, Withering Bolt deals splash damage and Execute is high damage, so that's even more threat, while Ancestral Judge is, again, weak split damage which generates very little threat, even with Guarded Stance. If the combat extends further, Brint and I keep doing high damage abilities that may damage the whole group, while Atugia's basic attack also deals weak split damage, generating no threat. The only real way to make Atugia have more threat than the rest of the party, as she is now, is to purposefully make the party less efficient, but why do that when you can take Cait, who can pretty much sustain the party under a normal assault?
 

Patralli

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Feb 11, 2020
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I'd like to see Arona expanded upon. Once you allow her to take over the tribe she just stays there. According to the earlier releases was supposed to be recruitable. Now there is no interaction with her that I can find.
 
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Upcast Drake

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I personally feel like there isn't really much of a point to attacks/abilities that deal damage split between physical and mental. For things like the normal Tail Whack, I can understand not wanting to make it as strong as a normal attack, because it's an on-command ability you can get very easily, so letting it deal damage equal to your normal attack and also adding on tease damage would make it a straight upgrade to your normal attack.

Except, Duelist's Stance for the thief adds evasion and sexiness, along with an automatic counter-attack if an opponent targets you and misses, and since it also generates threat, that means you're probably going to get a free attack while drawing attention away from your allies, and also it's a stance so you can set it and forget it to gain more damage overall. Also, Charge Weapon for the White Mage may be for a class that focuses on spells, but it still adds a bunch of damage to all of your weapon's attacks while dealing group damage when cast. Bolstering Dance is a stance, and it is constant (albeit low) regeneration to your party's resolve stat, while also giving you evasion, and Song of Courage heals your allies and gives everyone a buff to several stats, including damage. Arcane Shot is a side-grade, but because it's a side-grade it's basically an upgrade against certain foes. Frost Arrow requires a specific weapon to use, but it's otherwise literally just a stronger weapon attack. Ranger's Stance is a trade-off, but it still buffs your attacks.

If you equip the Tail Whack at-will ability, you miss out on using any of these at-will abilities, most of which are buffs or just straight up better than your normal attack, and you deal less damage. At level one, using only the starting equipment for a Warrior, and starting as a Lupine, a normal attack did 36 damage, a normal tease did 26 resolve damage, and a Tail Whack did 23 physical and 17 resolve against Ninian. Sure, the Tail Whack did more combined damage, a total of 40, but if you're fighting an enemy you're likely going to go with either dealing only physical damage or only resolve damage, because there's no benefit to dealing tease damage if you're going to beat them by reducing their hp to 0, and there's no benefit to dealing physical damage if you're going to win by reducing their resolve to 0. Thusly, the ordinary Tail Whack is overall worse than literally anything else you can do, if you have it equipped. However, I also think that buffing Tail Whack would only create a new problem, if it's better than anything else you could do. Except, that's already the case with several at-will abilities, which were mentioned before, being good, including the Frost Arrow, which is, in every situation, better than just making a normal weapon attack.

Moving away from Tail Whack, a different example of split damage is Atugia. I like Atugia, as a character, and I would love to have her in the party, especially since she has the Guarded Stance at-will power and a few abilities that do some healing to allies, meaning that I could swap Cait out for a character that tanks for the party and has minor healing capabilities (since it's basically a necessity in this game to have at least one party member be a healer in some capacity). Unfortunately, every attack she has, including her basic attack, deals split damage between physical and resolve. Her kit is practically perfect for a tank: Her Guarded Stance indicates that she's a party's tank, supposed to generate high threat so the squishier damage dealers won't take damage. Her Eternal Light is a slow-acting heal, indicating party members that do take damage should only do it rarely. Her ultimate, Shell, is a massive indicator, since it gives her a lot of health and gives her a high Threat level, basically the perfect tank ability. Her Ancestral Judge grants her a short increase to resistance and prevents her from getting stunned. Her Echoes Life ability heals everyone (sustaining them if the foe decides to ignore her) while dealing aoe damage (more threat tends to be generated from multi-target damage) and applies a debuff.

The fly in the ointment here is that my black mage turn-one fireballs, then turn-two lightning spikes, and turn-three withering bolts (and also usually at some point summons Kiyoko). Brint turn-one Cleaves (I control each action my party members take), turn-two uses Giant Reach, and turn-three Executes. Meanwhile, Atugia turn-one uses Guarded Stance, turn-two Echoes Life, and turn-three either Eternal Lights my black mage character or uses Ancestral Judge. The issue is, Atugia deals extremely low damage, and Guarded Stance takes a turn to set up. So, by the time Atugia gets to do anything, Fireball and Cleave have already generated massive amounts of threat, because they're both very high damage AOE attacks. Then, Lightning Spike deals guaranteed damage and may surge, dealing AOE damage again, while Brint's Giant Reach hits a single target like a truck. So, Echoes Life may be AOE damage, but even with the extra threat generation from Guarded Stance, because Echoes Life deals incredibly low damage (which I attribute to it being split between physical and resolve), Atugia ends the turn with the least threat of the entire team. In the third turn, Withering Bolt deals splash damage and Execute is high damage, so that's even more threat, while Ancestral Judge is, again, weak split damage which generates very little threat, even with Guarded Stance. If the combat extends further, Brint and I keep doing high damage abilities that may damage the whole group, while Atugia's basic attack also deals weak split damage, generating no threat. The only real way to make Atugia have more threat than the rest of the party, as she is now, is to purposefully make the party less efficient, but why do that when you can take Cait, who can pretty much sustain the party under a normal assault?
This is because Tail-Whack is given simply by anatomy configuration. We don't want anatomy configuration to drive combat effectiveness, or more specifically, we don't want combat effectiveness to drive anatomy configuration. Abilities you get from simple anatomy changes should be at-best side-grades for flavor. Though I will note, If you've a flame or frost scale salamander tail, the extra damage is fire or frost instead of tease.
 
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Upcast Drake

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Moving away from Tail Whack, a different example of split damage is Atugia. I like Atugia, as a character, and I would love to have her in the party, especially since she has the Guarded Stance at-will power and a few abilities that do some healing to allies, meaning that I could swap Cait out for a character that tanks for the party and has minor healing capabilities (since it's basically a necessity in this game to have at least one party member be a healer in some capacity). Unfortunately, every attack she has, including her basic attack, deals split damage between physical and resolve. Her kit is practically perfect for a tank: Her Guarded Stance indicates that she's a party's tank, supposed to generate high threat so the squishier damage dealers won't take damage. Her Eternal Light is a slow-acting heal, indicating party members that do take damage should only do it rarely. Her ultimate, Shell, is a massive indicator, since it gives her a lot of health and gives her a high Threat level, basically the perfect tank ability. Her Ancestral Judge grants her a short increase to resistance and prevents her from getting stunned. Her Echoes Life ability heals everyone (sustaining them if the foe decides to ignore her) while dealing aoe damage (more threat tends to be generated from multi-target damage) and applies a debuff.

The fly in the ointment here is that my black mage turn-one fireballs, then turn-two lightning spikes, and turn-three withering bolts (and also usually at some point summons Kiyoko). Brint turn-one Cleaves (I control each action my party members take), turn-two uses Giant Reach, and turn-three Executes. Meanwhile, Atugia turn-one uses Guarded Stance, turn-two Echoes Life, and turn-three either Eternal Lights my black mage character or uses Ancestral Judge. The issue is, Atugia deals extremely low damage, and Guarded Stance takes a turn to set up. So, by the time Atugia gets to do anything, Fireball and Cleave have already generated massive amounts of threat, because they're both very high damage AOE attacks. Then, Lightning Spike deals guaranteed damage and may surge, dealing AOE damage again, while Brint's Giant Reach hits a single target like a truck. So, Echoes Life may be AOE damage, but even with the extra threat generation from Guarded Stance, because Echoes Life deals incredibly low damage (which I attribute to it being split between physical and resolve), Atugia ends the turn with the least threat of the entire team. In the third turn, Withering Bolt deals splash damage and Execute is high damage, so that's even more threat, while Ancestral Judge is, again, weak split damage which generates very little threat, even with Guarded Stance. If the combat extends further, Brint and I keep doing high damage abilities that may damage the whole group, while Atugia's basic attack also deals weak split damage, generating no threat. The only real way to make Atugia have more threat than the rest of the party, as she is now, is to purposefully make the party less efficient, but why do that when you can take Cait, who can pretty much sustain the party under a normal assault?
This is a fair point and we've been thinking about different ways to make tanking more meaningful without making it so that non-tanks are totally safe. Shell is actually a conscious step in this direction, if you need the instant threat soak on-demand, it's there. Having easy threat management and healing on command from a single companion is kind of too good. I agree we can make improvements around threat, though.
 

Upcast Drake

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This is a fair point and we've been thinking about different ways to make tanking more meaningful without making it so that non-tanks are totally safe. Shell is actually a conscious step in this direction, if you need the instant threat soak on-demand, it's there. Having easy threat management and healing on command from a single companion is kind of too good. I agree we can make improvements around threat, though.
Starting next patch, Guarded Stance will generate threat per round that scales with the user's toughness. The percentage increase in threat has been lowered from 25% to 20%, but the flat threat/round from using the stance should more than make up for that unless you're not actually a tank.
 

Tide Hunter

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May 4, 2019
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Starting next patch, Guarded Stance will generate threat per round that scales with the user's toughness. The percentage increase in threat has been lowered from 25% to 20%, but the flat threat/round from using the stance should more than make up for that unless you're not actually a tank.
This is a pretty great idea, and I think it does essentially fix Atugia's core issue of not being able to tank. About the healing, I personally think Atugia's healing is currently at a point where she's not too good after the planned change. Her Echoes of Life ability is per-encounter, and, testing it, at the level I have her currently at she's only healing 31 hp for each character when using it. I don't know if it's a flat amount, an amount specific to Atugia's stats, or a percent of the ally's health, but my character had 10 more max health than Brint and Brint was healed 32 health so I'm not really sure. Her Eternal Light is mostly worse than Cait's Heal, since that is at-will, 30% of the character's health, and ends the bleeding effect, and her Healer's Hands perk also heals her for a pretty good amount, while Eternal Light can only be cast every other turn, only restores a total of 25% of their health (although it also restores resolve, and I think is the only healing source in the game which does that), does so over several turns, and doesn't end status effects. Her main way of keeping the player alive would be taking the hits, not healing them up, and she would probably need some way of sustaining herself since she would be tanking hits.
 

Dzus

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Mar 4, 2020
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Well for me coming straight from one to two is pretty difficult. I feel like the game REEEEEALLY wants me to travel with companions even though tbh I don't want to, but I'm getting my ass kicked by starter mobs in the Old Forest instantly. Everything is way more complicated while simultaneously having a feeling of less exploration because of the tiles like Stemwinder stated. Also the first CoC managed to basically give you all the info you need on one screen and that was nice but now that stats are way more important they are also harder to find. Maybe it's a nostalgia thing for me and it'll take time but the original CoC's UI and simple gameplay systems made the game easy to get into and enjoy but with CoC 2 I'm just struggling
So I've basically played to current content limit on most quests and I have adapted to the UI, for my tastes though you miss way too much in combat which was probably put in to make sure you had to rely more heavily on companions if I were to guess but I've adapted, I think if freedom of choice was to be allowed, a lone wolf skill would be an easy fix without having to change much of the current system. I'm still not the biggest fan of how combat is basically dropped in as a block of text, even if it was a little quick I think it'd be better to have it drop in character by character. To be clear my eye tracking during combat is as follows. Click begin, look at health, select skill, look at health, select skill or item, look at health and resolve again and that's on repeat until the fight is over UNLESS I take one of those 2 hitter quitters, like I have a couple of times. Then I'm throwing up my hands and looking for where all the damage came from, but that's not really a gripe. Why are some of my skills greyed out when I level past a certain level? Am I locked in on those skills permanently? Again just questions not really gripes. Weapon stats are still kind of confusing but then again I am pretty dumb. All in all besides these gripes I gotta say I'm a big fan of the game and I'm excited for the future updates
 

Savin

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Aug 26, 2015
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even if it was a little quick I think it'd be better to have it drop in character by character

There's an option for that.

Why are some of my skills greyed out when I level past a certain level?

What do you mean by "skills" -- there's no such things as skills in-game. There's Attribute and Powers and I'm not sure which you mean.
 

Stemwinder

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Jun 15, 2018
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This is a pretty great idea, and I think it does essentially fix Atugia's core issue of not being able to tank. About the healing, I personally think Atugia's healing is currently at a point where she's not too good after the planned change. Her Echoes of Life ability is per-encounter, and, testing it, at the level I have her currently at she's only healing 31 hp for each character when using it. I don't know if it's a flat amount, an amount specific to Atugia's stats, or a percent of the ally's health, but my character had 10 more max health than Brint and Brint was healed 32 health so I'm not really sure. Her Eternal Light is mostly worse than Cait's Heal, since that is at-will, 30% of the character's health, and ends the bleeding effect, and her Healer's Hands perk also heals her for a pretty good amount, while Eternal Light can only be cast every other turn, only restores a total of 25% of their health (although it also restores resolve, and I think is the only healing source in the game which does that), does so over several turns, and doesn't end status effects. Her main way of keeping the player alive would be taking the hits, not healing them up, and she would probably need some way of sustaining herself since she would be tanking hits.
That's very true.

I just had a thought. What if, instead of a (seemingly?) flat and too-low-to-be-helpful regen per turn it was instead a conditional "heal" that would activate when a character takes damage? In actual effect it would be a damage reduction and it could be given out in stacks (let's say it gives each character two instances when it's used) but the flavor text would be a sort of reactive healing aura that activates when a character takes damage and partially heals the wound (and we could say that this is where the resolve boost in the skill comes from, it inspires the character to keep fighting). Artugia does need to be more tanky and a power that reduces damage rather than providing a paltry regen would suit her more.
 

Balaknightfang

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Aug 5, 2018
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Edit: I'd actually love a response from the observer, i'd find it very interesting to hear your views on your writing on this subject.
Wow, not even going to address that Savin wrote most of Evergreen's original content and dialogue. FeelsBadMan.
 

Savin

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i feel terrible about that, god, is an apology enough? It doesn't feel like it.

It's okay, nobody reads the author tags. Usually people think I wrote Tobs' stuff anyway.

Unfortunately as for responses, I can't give you much of one at the moment. Evergreen's definitely one of the three D&D alignment that has a capital E and is absolutely meant to give the kind of reaction you're getting. Unless that's your fetish, anyway. Suffice to say that the entire why and how of what Evergreen does is major spoiler territory but she has a substantial amount of planned expansion content. You'll definitely be able to interact more with her daughters in the future (especially Senja), both sexually and intellectually. Maybe you'll be able to stop Evergreen, if that's what you want to do.
 

Paradox01

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Suffice to say that the entire why and how of what Evergreen does is major spoiler territory but she has a substantial amount of planned expansion content. You'll definitely be able to interact more with her daughters in the future (especially Senja), both sexually and intellectually.
Best news I've heard all day.
 

IraMorti

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Dec 5, 2017
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One of my biggest gripes is some characters text don’t take into account you never had sex with them. Examples being Ninian and Sugo. My current character isn’t a douche so he helps them out, but isn’t interested in them romantically/sexually. I don’t remember the specific text but I recall it reading as if my champion had fucked them. Total immersion break, haha.
 

BubbleLord

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Jun 24, 2016
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One of my biggest gripes is some characters text don’t take into account you never had sex with them. Examples being Ninian and Sugo. My current character isn’t a douche so he helps them out, but isn’t interested in them romantically/sexually. I don’t remember the specific text but I recall it reading as if my champion had fucked them. Total immersion break, haha.
They can be interested in you if you aren’t in them. Neither of them is grabbing your cock and making you fuck them.
 

arch99

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Dec 24, 2019
434
403
It's sounding increasingly like Arona may never be recruitable, or if she is it'll be far in the future, and that makes me sad, we don't even have a repeatable sex scene with her once we've got her on the throne, that would help a ton at least while she was being worked on, so that you're not locked out of her content by... finishing her quest.
 

arch99

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Dec 24, 2019
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Oh I definitely misinterpreted something in another thread then sorry - and I don't actually check these forums almost ever, so I don't keep up to date with anything, I've just popped in occasionally to see if the things I want to happen are planned to.
 

IraMorti

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Dec 5, 2017
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They can be interested in you if you aren’t in them. Neither of them is grabbing your cock and making you fuck them.
I never said they can’t be. What I said is I recalled scenes that read as if said fucking occurred even if it didn’t and found it annoying. It read more like an oversight than anything, unless I am misremembering. Just recall doing a bit of a double take. Lol.
 

WolframL

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A little late to the party on the Evergreen conversation but since Etheryn has recently come up as well, yeah, the scene where you take her to Evergreen to ask about the cage definitely sends strong 'Something's not right here' vibes even if you don't do the Den of Foxes quest and get another perspective on Evergreen that makes her look creepy as hell. I'm all for giving Alissa some well-earned payback but tearing her soul apart to unlock the cage? Damn. Okay Ryn, we're walking slowly away and not turning our backs until we're out the door, then let us never speak of this again.

So yeah, add me to the list of people interested in future Evergreen expansions to see what her story is and how we can react to it. No doubt she'll have her own things to say about the kitsune just like they say things about her. The fact that I remember seeing Evergreen is going to be the source of magicocks is another factor. I've got my all-female champion just aching to explore some secret passages once those become available and I'd rather not use TFs and alchemy to work around certain scenes (I recall mentioning this earlier in this topic) unless I absolutely have to.
 
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