What are your gripes/criticism of TiTs?

[Slab Bulkhead]

Spoiler

I mean, ACTUALLY remove her. That just shuffles her over to Canadia, and then you can report her there... Only to get her back on Tavros.

Dr Badger gets reported, and boom she's gone from the game, no if-ands-or-buts.

It would be so easy to just put in an option to remove her from the game instead of purposely going out of their way to keep her in the game because MUH TROLL CHARACTERRRRRRRRRR

Or you could just... not talk to her. I mean, I could name some other characters who I don't like, but I just ignore them. I get not liking a character, but I don't get why you want someone to take the time to write up something to make her disappear because of that. *shrug* If the game forced you to have an encounter with her, that would be different, but you can walk right past her, so what's the big deal?

 

[Helia]

I would say the narrative context that this police officer is running rampant verbally harassing and abusing people, and you are actively punished and mocked by the game for trying to do the right thing. And as Misty said, she is one of the most easily accessible npc's in the game, meaning new players will almost certainly encounter her, which is a horrible first impression.

I do think this conversation is going in circles however, I feel like everything was already discussed, it's basically up to authors if they read this forum or not and take feedback.

 

[SlamAzz]

I guess it just seems like everyone is refusing to add a VERY simple fix to a problem and just say "don't talk to her". I'm sorry if that seems rude or anything, but there has been tons of people asking for the same thing (or worse) for her and everyone just covers their ears, adding more fuel to the fire.

 

[Linarahn]

Riya is a beginner's trap on top of her seriously questionable content. I only didn't fall into it because I have a habit of checking the forums first to find new content on public patches. It's such a royally stupid idea to have her on Tavros, front and center.

Imagine a big-budget, major title that presents you with such a character and then doesn't give you any accurate means of dealing with them, right out of the gate. That's bound to influence how you approach the rest of the game - either you're one of the types who finds her hi-larious and expect the rest of the NPCs to have a flavoring like that, or you find her horrendous and expect the rest of the NPCs to have a flavoring like that (speaking from the perspective of a complete newcomer to Fenoxo's games.)

Now, the latter category might be appeased by the fact Riya turned out to be an outlier, but why risk newcomers being wary of reading other content? As I said before, there's a way to address racism or raceplay and its implications in a fashion that doesn't insult people, and then there's Riya. Nor do I think having a character designed to make plenty people miserable because they have to put up with shit like hers from actual, real people should be something to be found in a smut game with such a lack of general direction.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be here if I didn't enjoy CoC and TiTS in general, but isn't a major tenet of game design to know your audience? Or of writing in general? "Always keep in mind who you're writing for" and all that?

 

[null_blank]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Riya. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of geopolitics most of the jokes will go over a typical reader's head. There's also Riya's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into her characterisation- her personal philosophy draws heavily from /pol/ memes, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Riya truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Riya's existential catchphrase "All Ausar must hang," which itself is a cryptic reference to /pol/ memes. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Franks' genius wit unfolds itself on their screens. What fools.. how I pity them.

 

[Linarahn]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Riya. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of geopolitics most of the jokes will go over a typical reader's head. There's also Riya's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into her characterisation- her personal philosophy draws heavily from /pol/ memes, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Riya truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Riya's existential catchphrase "All Ausar must hang," which itself is a cryptic reference to /pol/ memes. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Franks' genius wit unfolds itself on their screens. What fools.. how I pity them.

[sarcasm][/sarcasm]

 

[Somebody Else]

Good Stuff

I agree with the points you make about Riya, and also think you stated a point I was trying to make - the effects of certain things on new players - much more eloquently than I did.

All the eggnancy stuff can happen even if a brand new player chooses infertile at character creation. It sets the precedent that your choices don't matter, and that you have to deal with turn-offs even if you make the choice to exclude them. That sort of thing is a major deterrent to new players, which every game needs to stay healthy.

So much of eggnancy content is a sort of "gotcha" style as well. Bothiric ask if you're willing to be impregnated if you beat them. Assume the same with Nyrea, and now you're eggnant. Okay, okay, no more sex with anything at all; I'll just go exploring. Oh, unavoidable venus pitcher, eggnant. Okay, my will was too low, now it's the maximum it can possibly be. I'll just fly around and see if anyone is interested in the strange egg I found, like that bartender was interested in Zil trophies. Aaaaand eggnant.

To be clear, I'm not arguing for the removal of any content at all. I'm just saying that if a player picks the infertile option at character creation, one likely reason being they find such things a turn off in their smut games, the game shouldn't circumvent that choice with a silly workaround like "you can't get pregnant, but you can get EGGnant, even with all your gene mods and super tech! Gotcha!"

Edit: Also, sorry if I'm pushing the point too hard; I'm not great with communication in general, and it can take a few iterations before I can adequately convey my meaning sometimes. I push on this point in particular because I feel that rectifying it would be good for the health of the game as a whole, which is a goal I think we all share.

 

[Stemwinder]

Both of those issues are really touching on the same thing: that some players would prefer to be able to gate content that they're not particularly into. Some of the more fetishy porn games around are designed that way but Fenoxo's decidedly aren't. Part of the appeal, really; it's a deviant sandbox and the name of the game is sexploration. Part of that is to end up getting buggered by things you didn't intend to and part of it is to potentially run into something that could make you turn your nose up. There's no sense that you -must- participate but in most cases it's not going to be hidden from sight, either.

It's not often held up as such a thing but it's actually part of the reason that less competent (and that's said even acknowledging how much of a mess the games are) imitators don't hit what the appeal is. Those gated games - either the explicit ones that ask whether you'd like certain things blocked off or those populated with softer gates that ask approval at every turn - are like wandering a museum where everything's brightly lit, clearly marked, all the exhibits behind their stanchions. It's a curated experience. CoC had none of that. If you were to find anything you'd have to search for it and what you found probably wasn't what you were looking for but it was curious enough that you might want to know more about it. TiTS is a bit more guided and gives an intrepid explorer more of a clue but they're still v. much able to ignore the ropes and climb about where they feel they shouldn't to find some curious things. That sense of "what is this, where is it going, and do I really want to find out?" is what the curated ones don't have, that little "it" that could coax someone into playing even if they weren't necessarily a fan (beforehand, anyway) of this or that.

They're both legitimate ways of going about it but TiTS isn't likely to go too far with gating. It's a design principle.

 

[Somebody Else]

I get where you're coming from, but this isn't a case of surprise fetish; it's a bait and switch. The game tells you that you can avoid pregnancy at the beginning, a case of gating already in the game, only to say that you can still get eggnant later. To the people who really didn't want to deal with pregnancy, I doubt eggnancy, which still produces offspring with your genes, may unload them into your nursery, and calls them your children, is different enough to sidestep potential pregnancy problems.

 

[Crablord]

bro just dont lose in a fight

 

[Xeivous]

To be fair, Brothlic are frustratingly easy to lose to.

 

[Crablord]

To be fair, Brothlic are frustratingly easy to lose to.

thats true idk why the quadommes are still legal

 

[Linarahn]

Both of those issues are really touching on the same thing: that some players would prefer to be able to gate content that they're not particularly into.

Surprise that people aren't into dealing with shit RL throws at them in their off-time, too. The eggnancy stuff is pretty clearly a fetish which can be avoided if A) your character is strong enough not to lose and B) you know what to look out for. It's something you can either practice or save edit your way around if you don't have the patience to put up with it. It's not strictly forced on the player.

Assuming your post was in direct response to Somebody Else, you could make the argument that the same goes for Riya (you learn what to look out for by engaging the character) and from a pure gameplay perspective, you'd be correct. As I pointed out though, an encounter specifically built to annoy or anger people is still not something that should be there, at that place. There's respectfully engaging kinks like degradation and raceplay, and then there's Riya.
It's done in a fashion where arguing purely by mechanics won't get you anywhere. Then again, since the people responsible hide away on Discord, nothing we say or do here gets us anywhere as a collective, either.

I agree that part of the appeal for both CoC and TiTS is the exploration and discovery what which character has in store for you and whether or not it's your cup of tea (or if it gets you a new kink you're suddenly into). But we also can't forget that CoC had worms as a toggle and I believe Butt Bugs are a toggle as well. Because it's niche. Because probably more people don't enjoy it than there are who do, or because enough people asked for it to be made into a toggle, I don't know which option is more accurate.

I heard something about Steph Irson being removed from the game as a result of player feedback, I don't recall why though (was a bit before I got active on the forums and I never paid attention to the NPC) so it's baffling that a character who, by Fenoxo's reaction, is here to stay, doesn't at least get a means for the player to never have to engage them again. Even Dr. Badger has that option and the only thing that'll ever draw people there is because they want to check out the shop. You get to say No and walk away if you're not into that. You can simply report her to Penny and be done with it if it's not your cup of tea and/or the way you play your Steele means your Steele would act that way.They even gave us the option to essentially turn off SSTDs, come to think of it.

As far as I'm concerned, eggnancies and Riya aren't equivalent issues. Because one is mainly a problem that -can- be solved purely by mechanics (and maybe a bit of helpful signposting and/or a toggle option in the menu).

The other is a glorified shitpost under the guise of a contribution. One many players have to deal with on a daily basis as is.

 

[gena138]

I heard something about Steph Irson being removed from the game as a result of player feedback, I don't recall why though (was a bit before I got active on the forums and I never paid attention to the NPC) so it's baffling that a character who, by Fenoxo's reaction, is here to stay, doesn't at least get a means for the player to never have to engage them again.

Wait, the player used to be able to interact with Steph and that got removed? Am I reading this correctly?

 

[Irrlicht]

Wait, the player used to be able to interact with Steph and that got removed? Am I reading this correctly?

Something Something Treatmentrelated, I belive.

Given that Mitzi is a thing, I wonder why the thing for Steph got removed in the first place...

 

[Linarahn]

Wait, the player used to be able to interact with Steph and that got removed? Am I reading this correctly?

Yah. I vaguely remember there having been an encounter with Irson on Myrellion. As I said though, I'm far from clear on the details at this point.

 

[Irrlicht]

Given that Mitzi is a thing

Oh ja, Mitzi. I do not like her, but I see the point in her existance and she is easy enogth to avoid.

 

[Linarahn]

Thanks for the summary, birb of the mist.

 

[gena138]

Thanks for the explanation, I just didn't even realize that it used to be possible for Steph to get treated and meet her on Myrellion. It was either before I started playing TiTs or before I actually starting reading the blog rather than just clicking the "Play" section.

 

[Stemwinder]

They're equivalent because they're both things you're not going to be specifically protected from.

In CoC one of the first NPCs that the player is likely to encounter is Kelt - another of the most hated NPCs.

The whole thing is designed so that you may run into something you don't like because the game's not guiding you much (if at all). There are ways to cut down the likelihood of it but there's never a feeling that you're able to sanitize your experience in its entirety.

 

[Linarahn]

They're equivalent because they're both things you're not going to be specifically protected from.

In CoC one of the first NPCs that the player is likely to encounter is Kelt - another of the most hated NPCs.

The whole thing is designed so that you may run into something you don't like because the game's not guiding you much (if at all). There are ways to cut down the likelihood of it but there's never a feeling that you're able to sanitize your experience in its entirety.

Fair enough, I see your point.
At least we could do something about Kelt though, at the cost of never learning the bow skill and/or losing access to Whitney, but...still better than nothing in my opinion.

 

[null_blank]

"I'm not entirely informed but see 'retcon' and get mad."

Hey, that's me!

 

[ScarletteKnight]

Oh God, Kelt was my first Bad End... I had no idea that it could happen, and I liked the scenes even though I hated Kelt, maybe because I hated him, and then I lost my character. I hadn't lost a fight, and everything else was perfect, but then Kelt...

I realize that the only reason I haven't had sex with Riya, who I hate, is because she only fucks if you have only a vagina. I think I might have a hidden fetish...

 

[Mister Gregar]

The recent removal of incest shouldn't be met with backlash against fen. Blame MasterCard. They are the ones who pressure services like Patreon to crack down on thing. Visa, too. I don't know why credit card companies care what you fap too, but they really, really, really don't want people giving their money to things they don't like. If there's a pearl clutcher against it, they don't want it funded.

 

[Wsan]

thats true idk why the quadommes are still legal

Nonesuch's a dick

 

[Nonesuch]

Nonesuch's a dick

I allow the suffering to continue purely because of how many people misspell 'Bothrioc'.

 

[Linarahn]

I allow the suffering to continue purely because of how many people misspell 'Bothrioc'.

But only until they can properly spell 'Bothrioc'?

That's a surefire way to keep them tortured forever. Such a delinquent approach!

 

[Wsan]

I allow the suffering to continue purely because of how many people misspell 'Bothrioc'.

Every rogue would do the same in a heartbeat, no doubt.

 

[null_blank]

I mean, I understand it. Removing content is never ideal, ever. It's not something Fen does lightly, and especially not something he will do when there's no reason to do it other than vocal complaints.

Though I was around during this whole retcon/removal I was completely unaware of what was going on in the background. All I heard were player complaints and assumed this was the primary reason. Of course it didn't help when other forumites we're so quick to tell me "BECAUSE IT'S EVIL DUH AND THAT'S PROBLEMATIC" when I asked years later (slowpoke.png).

...because nothing bad ever happens to people in a futuristic dystopian society. Especially people that sign contacts.

....

So yeah. Thank you for the explanation.

Also, define irony: a game that takes place in a dystopian future has to censor itself due to pressure from a corporation.

Where are my flying cars?!?!?

 

[Linarahn]

You'd think communications should be a priority in general, in both directions, considering the nature of Fenoxo's games.

Ah well, at this point, I'll take what I can get in terms of positive/constructive developments.