Seeds of Chaos [Ren'py - Version 0.2.42]

[TheDarkMaster]

Personally, I don't mind the Nice Time for Roo. Why? Because the way the story is headed its obvious the MC is going to cheat on her countless of times... if she does it too then she will be just as guilty. Besides, if the demons have it their way, the world is soon going to become a place a pure hedonism, so I assume "free-love" is going to become a common place thing.

That only really works if the player actually makes Simon behave that way.  You can have Simon be completely loyal and the game shouldn't punish you for this.  I think the way to handle it is to have the two talk about their relationship in the context of Simon's servitude, with the option of making it a more open relationship out of necessity, to be loyal solely to one another, or have the relationship steadily deteriorate due to Simon being unfaithful but not allowing Alexia to do the same.

 

[IvoryOwl]

That only really works if the player actually makes Simon behave that way.  You can have Simon be completely loyal and the game shouldn't punish you for this.  I think the way to handle it is to have the two talk about their relationship in the context of Simon's servitude, with the option of making it a more open relationship out of necessity, to be loyal solely to one another, or have the relationship steadily deteriorate due to Simon being unfaithful but not allowing Alexia to do the same.

You can't really be loyal to Alexia without triggering a bad end. The prologue made that clear right at the end of it when you had to "prove" yourself to the twins... unless that was entirely optional and I didn't knew it. Either way RIP my MC's marriage... xD

 

[TheDarkMaster]

You can't really be loyal to Alexia, the prologue made that clear right at the end of it when you had to "prove" yourself to the twins.

You can refuse.  The twins will be disappointed, but will allow the transgression.

 

[IvoryOwl]

You can refuse.  The twins will be disappointed, but will allow the transgression.

Welp, there you have it. I thought I had to accept either of them or the game wouldn't progress... I feel dirty now.

 

[Lord Arioch]

@Hiz - Thanks. Have fixed the mouth thing. Plan is for relationships with NPCs in the castle, less involved ones with NPCs outside, so you get both scenes you have to work for, and some you don't. 

@MrT - Both.

@The Rest - As I've said a few times now, all scenes are optional. Hell, you'll probably be able to go the whole game without banging anyone if you want (although it kind of defeats the purpose...). In regards to Alexia, player will choose how they want that relationship to develop: If the Nice Time for Roo filter is turned on, whether you want her to be faithful (whether you want to be or not is up to you), or have an open relationship. If it is turned off, she'll be Nice Time for Roo'd. There may also be a full on corruption path as well. I know how  touchy some people get about girlfriend/wives, so it'll really be up to you about who you want to allow Alexia to fuck (if anyone). 

 

[karunama]

Personally, I don't really care if she has sex with other people.  After all, if I have my way, by the next time she and Rowan meet, he won't be the person she knew anymore.  At the very least, my first full playthrough my Rowan is gonna be corrupt and manipulative as I can make him.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

@The Rest - As I've said a few times now, all scenes are optional. Hell, you'll probably be able to go the whole game without banging anyone if you want (although it kind of defeats the purpose...). In regards to Alexia, player will choose how they want that relationship to develop: If the Nice Time for Roo filter is turned on, whether you want her to be faithful (whether you want to be or not is up to you), or have an open relationship. If it is turned off, she'll be Nice Time for Roo'd. There may also be a full on corruption path as well. I know how  touchy some people get about girlfriend/wives, so it'll really be up to you about who you want to allow Alexia to fuck (if anyone). 

So, whether or not she was faithful to Rowan depends entirely on a setting in the options menu?  That seems a bit weird, especially in terms of the storytelling for her character.  I mean, we really don't know anything about her or Rowan's sexual life either during or before their marriage, but her choosing to or not to sleep with her captor over the time since her capture is a rather huge deal for her.  Especially when she learns that her husband spent a bunch of that time in a prison cell in the same castle being tortured before being forced into service with their mutual captors and either essentially being raped by them or managing to hold out for her sake.

 

[Hizor]

Should be interesting to see the chapter 1 release. Do you have an estimated release date planned? If so I'll find some time around then to check out the new mechanics.


I don't know if I told you this or not it was probably someone else. Check out a site called Gamejolt when you can, the place is full of indie games including visual novels. You should post SoC there you'd probably get a lot of people playing it then. And with the Prologue done the current release would be a good first post.


You should be able to find it just by googling it. Hope it helps.

 

[mrttao]

Personally, I don't mind the Nice Time for Roo. Why? Because the way the story is headed its obvious the MC is going to cheat on her countless of times... if she does it too then she will be just as guilty. Besides, if the demons have it their way, the world is soon going to become a place a pure hedonism, so I assume "free-love" is going to become a common place thing.

Nice Time for Roo =! cheating


it certainly doesn't mean free love and open relationship.

 

[MorganHannahFae]

Nice Time for Roo =! cheating

Yes. Nice Time for Roo involves not only the sex itself, but begins as rape, until they get a strange rape-induced stockholme syndrome that makes them like their rapist more than their husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/wife/lover/favorite vibrater/cthulhu monster.

It is 57849302758490327859042 times worse than cheating, and the fault doesn't lie with the woman but with the rapist in the Netori/Netorare situation. Yes Netori is just as sick and twisted. The number is a little bit exaggerated.

Listen to T, he's in the know.

 

[Lord Arioch]

@TDM - I agree, and if it wasn't such a button issue, I'd make it less binary. But I get emails from people asking me if there's Nice Time for Roo in the game because they won't back it if there is, and it is also probably the thing talked about most in this thread despite not even being in the game yet. I could remove the filter and make it nuanced, and psychological, but I'd just get a load of abuse from people who didn't want to see Nice Time for Roo and somehow ended up with that outcome due to not meeting whatever criteria would have to be put in place, and I really can't be arsed with that hassle. I also suspect people who want that content are more interested in humiliating sexual scenarios than Madame Bovary anyway.

@Hiz - Thanks for the suggestion, have stuck it up on Gamejolt, hopefully that'll bring in some more interest. 

 

[IvoryOwl]

@Hiz - Thanks for the suggestion, have stuck it up on Gamejolt, hopefully that'll bring in some more interest. 

Just don't forget to set the maturity filters up if you ever decide to use upload this game on Gamejolt.

 

[Lord Arioch]

Just don't forget to set the maturity filters up if you ever decide to use upload this game on Gamejolt.

Yeah, have done (for sex, violence, and swearing lol).


It's here if anyone would like to take a look.

 

[Ethereal Dragon]

Geez people getting all crazy over the boner murder that Nice Time for Roo is. That is exactly why you have the option to turn Nice Time for Roo off, I don't get why people would threaten to not back if you included Nice Time for Roo content. Can't they just read themselves that there is an option to turn that type of thing off in game?

 

[Lord Arioch]

Geez people getting all crazy over the boner murder that Nice Time for Roo is. That is exactly why you have the option to turn Nice Time for Roo off, I don't get why people would threaten to not back if you included Nice Time for Roo content. Can't they just read themselves that there is an option to turn that type of thing off in game?

It's low on the add priority, and I'm hardly making any money  (and that doesn't look like it is going to change anytime soon), so it isn't like it will be in the game for a long time anyway.

 

[IvoryOwl]

Geez people getting all crazy over the boner murder that Nice Time for Roo is. That is exactly why you have the option to turn Nice Time for Roo off, I don't get why people would threaten to not back if you included Nice Time for Roo content. Can't they just read themselves that there is an option to turn that type of thing off in game?

I wouldn't give those people the time of the day. Threatening someone just because X fetish is / ins't in the game ins't exactly the best way to get people to cooperate with you -  if I was the author of anything I'd tell them that if that's how they want to do things then they may as well keep their money and find stuff games elsewhere, because I'm not about to listen to a bunch of self-entitled little brats that don't even understand what "respect" is... so either drop a suggestion like everyone else for me to consider or keep moving.

I personally think that, when I donate money to someone through Kickstarter or Patreon, its because I want to support them and their project (that just happens to be the kind I like) and NOT because I want them to drop everything else just to make something exclusively for me. But to each their own I guess...

 

 

[TheDarkMaster]

@TDM - I agree, and if it wasn't such a button issue, I'd make it less binary. But I get emails from people asking me if there's Nice Time for Roo in the game because they won't back it if there is, and it is also probably the thing talked about most in this thread despite not even being in the game yet. I could remove the filter and make it nuanced, and psychological, but I'd just get a load of abuse from people who didn't want to see Nice Time for Roo and somehow ended up with that outcome due to not meeting whatever criteria would have to be put in place, and I really can't be arsed with that hassle. I also suspect people who want that content are more interested in humiliating sexual scenarios than Madame Bovary anyway.

Could the way to do it then be to write the such that the Nice Time for Roo sequence can be triggered if the player makes the wrong choices, while the option in the menu simply forces them to make the correct ones instead?  Then you aren't compromising or changing the story, simply blocking off certain paths if the option is enabled.


Just as a possible example, if the player refuses to have Rowan service the twins, then the brother will go to Alexis and try to satisfy himself with her.  That night the player has the option to have Rowan go looking for Alexis after getting into their room and if they do, they stop the brother from getting anywhere with Alexis.  If the option for Nice Time for Roo is turned off, then Rowan will automatically go and find Alexis without the player being given the choice.


EDIT: Maybe this was what you'd had in mind and I misinterpreted you?

 

[Lord Arioch]

Could the way to do it then be to write the such that the Nice Time for Roo sequence can be triggered if the player makes the wrong choices, while the option in the menu simply forces them to make the correct ones instead?  Then you aren't compromising or changing the story, simply blocking off certain paths if the option is enabled.


Just as a possible example, if the player refuses to have Rowan service the twins, then the brother will go to Alexis and try to satisfy himself with her.  That night the player has the option to have Rowan go looking for Alexis after getting into their room and if they do, they stop the brother from getting anywhere with Alexis.  If the option for Nice Time for Roo is turned off, then Rowan will automatically go and find Alexis without the player being given the choice.


EDIT: Maybe this was what you'd had in mind and I misinterpreted you?

Yeah, that sounds good. Although I suppose I have to be careful about forcing interactions with Alexia, as there are bound to be gay players with no interest in her. Things are never simple.

 

[IvoryOwl]

Yeah, that sounds good. Although I suppose I have to be careful about forcing interactions with Alexia, as there are bound to be gay players with no interest in her. Things are never simple.

If they're gay then you don't have to worry about the Nice Time for Roo for them, do you? After all they have no real "connection" with Alexis to begin with... at most they could just get jealous of her due to the fact she has the brother's attention and he's the one they want. Maybe you should add some kind of mark or even grey out the other options (but still leave them functional) based on the filter? That way people know which ones to pick but are still free to do otherwise. Plus just because the Nice Time for Roo is set to "off" doesn't mean Rowan has to immediately go after Alexis... it simply makes to so Andras won't be interested in her... but that probably means you have to write two sets, one with Nice Time for Roo and other without for it to work maybe?

 

[Lord Arioch]

Well... if they're gay then I very much doubt they'll be bothered by the Nice Time for Roo since they have no "connection" with Alexis to begin with... unless they get jealous of her due to the fact she has the brother's attention? Maybe you should add some kind of mark or even grey out the other options (but still functional) based on the filter? That way people know which ones to pick but are still free to do otherwise. Plus just because the Nice Time for Roo is set to "off" doesn't mean Rowan has to immediately go after Alexis... it simply makes to so Andras (forgot his name) he won't be interested in her... but that probably means you have to write two sets, one with Nice Time for Roo and other without for it to work maybe?

It isn't so much a "they won't be bothered" thing, they aren't interested in having to sit through straight orientated content as much as straight people are gay. I'll just make it clear when the player is asked that gay people should say no if they feel that way. And It isn't so much a filter as a point blank question at the start. Not planning on allowing you to piss around changing things in game, a lot of work for no reason really since I can't see why you'd suddenly want to change it midgame. 

 

[karunama]

It isn't so much a "they won't be bothered" thing, they aren't interested in having to sit through straight orientated content as much as straight people are gay. I'll just make it clear when the player is asked that gay people should say no if they feel that way. And It isn't so much a filter as a point blank question at the start. Not planning on allowing you to piss around changing things in game, a lot of work for no reason really since I can't see why you'd suddenly want to change it midgame. 

I've seen that in quite a few other games; a little questionnaire at the very beginning to verify the fetishes the player wants to avoid.  Will there be multiple, or just the one for Nice Time for Roo?

 

[mrttao]

I wouldn't give those people the time of the day. Threatening someone just because X fetish is / ins't in the game ins't exactly the best way to get people to cooperate with you

Threatening someone implies you intend to harm that person if they don't do things you want them to do. Which is quite different from "threatening" to not purchase something you don't like.

 

[Hizor]

Another thought that I was wondering for the game, once you are able to move freely and possibly to town's where you are able to meet more people possibly are you going to have quests and such as well? And can the player be able to acquire skills that can be used in combat?

 

[Lord Arioch]

@karu I haven't decided. The reason I have to do it for Nice Time for Roo is because it is something that happens when the player is absent, while I think all other can kinks can be given to the player as an option with clear signposting, and as a result don't need filtering.

@hiz Towns and quests, yeah. But there's no combat, all the skills are things like you'd see in DnD: climb, jump, search, bluff, etc. 

 

[Hizor]

Hrm, I there no why to program a combat system? Maybe a turn-based one would work, but I suppose that would pull away some players that are just in it for the various explicit content.


I got around to updating all the forum posts, and some of them have attracted quite a few people, it's starting to get out there.


Edit: Also popped in a little rating for you on Gamejolt, should attract more people who look at ratings instead of descriptions.

 

[Lord Arioch]

@Hiz Thanks man, appreciate it. As for combat, I just can't think of any way to doing it except the same button clickfest that they usually have in these games, so I thought I'd just skip it. There's other ways to resolve conflicts, even violent ones.

 

[IvoryOwl]

I vote "No" for combat.

IMO the main draw of this game is its story and the the consequences of our choices. Combat in eroge games need two things: 1) to be fully implemented and 2) have a reason to be there. Implementing combat just for the sake of adding some artificial extra length to the game ins't going to cut it. One of the reasons why I dislike RPG Maker games its because they usually make you go through needless grind just to progress through the game or get to the good parts. The orc scene in the prologue was fine because it was part of the story. While it can be "fun" to roleplay our character as an outright barbarian or sneaky assassin, I don't think its worth the extra effort in this case. Plus it can be annoying to some people to have to repeat things just because they made the wrong choices at the wrong time.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

The only reason you should ever implement combat in a game like this is if you can make it interesting in some way.  So that there is a reason for players to want to do the combat.  Whether this be because of interesting mechanics, the way you can customize or plan out your party, or a series of puzzles, there needs to be something that makes it a fun and worthwhile component of the game.  If you aren't interested in doing that, then having no combat is perfectly fine.

 

[karunama]

The only reason you should ever implement combat in a game like this is if you can make it interesting in some way.  So that there is a reason for players to want to do the combat.  Whether this be because of interesting mechanics, the way you can customize or plan out your party, or a series of puzzles, there needs to be something that makes it a fun and worthwhile component of the game.  If you aren't interested in doing that, then having no combat is perfectly fine.

I have to agree.  Having no combat in an RPG (of sorts) is a bold move, but not a *bad* move.  As I understand it, @Lord Arioch, you are the only programmer working on your game.  If you can't think of a good way to make combat fun, then your time is clearly better spent elsewhere.


Edit; A question occurs:  Will there be more scenes like the fight with the orcs?  As in, rather than having actual combat in-game, having fight scenes with multiple choices that are automatically resolved based on them?  I would assume success or failure would depend on the choices made and the stats they're based on, i.e. choosing to straight up fight succeeds if your strength is 4 or higher, that sort of thing.

 

[Hizor]

Karunama has a good point there, if a normal combat system cannot be made then small story based ones with simple choices sounds nice.