I thought about your reply and have read some Hime interactions more closely since I spent way more time with Inari and I do agree with what you said here. Hime is indeed very affectioned towards the player, I hadn't see the kiss on the cheek scene or the part when she gets fired over Nakano then ends the conversation with her father just like that. It was a very hasty and hipocritical judgement on my part because I now realise I can relate to both paths to some extend.Eh, speaking as someone raised in an Asian household, I wouldn’t say Hime isn’t sincere because you can genuinely feel what you say, even if it isn’t the whole truth (I know I am completely incapable of saying something I don’t at least feel in the moment). Obviously she’s not outspoken like Inari (who is pretty tactless a lot, tbh), but at the same time, she does know how to implicitly get a point across. Also, there is a dialogue where she actually gets very fired up over Nakano when PC points out his tragedy is at least partly of his own making. I have my days where I’m Hime and others where I’m Inari, so I relate heavily to both of them. But I’m no less sincere about my feelings on a Hime day than an Inari day.
I also wouldn’t say she’s miserable like someone else said earlier. Just because Inari is openly resentful doesn’t mean Hime feels the same way. In fact, considering how opposite the two of them are, it makes sense. Hime is super empathetic so she’s open-minded to people for better or worse. Inari is very willful so she’d stick to her guns for better or worse as well.
For that same reason, I wouldn’t say Inari is happy either; self-imposed isolation doesn’t seem much better than overt abnegation. Inari lives true to herself alright, but at the cost of being painfully lonely because almost no one can stand to be around her and she can’t stand talking to most people.
This is what I appreciate about how Tobs wrote the two Kinus; they’re complete opposite extremes with opposite flaws and opposite issues. But they both have their strengths as well, with plenty of overlap.
I don’t understand why there’s an implication that Hime isn’t hard-working because Komari’s dialogue about her also paint her as very diligent; just more focused on administration as opposed to fieldwork.
In any case, I’m pretty sure both Kinus suffer from kitsune society regardless, one from the burdens and the other from isolation. Maybe from a purely Western perspective, Inari route seems like the “right” route. But to an Asian American with more Asian leanings in terms of how I was brought up (my Inari tendencies were more recent additions to my adult life after experiencing a few mental and emotional collapses), I draw a lot of comfort from Hime. I’m probably still hardwired to abnegate for the sake of harmony, but I don’t really see the problem with that as long as you understand your own limits.
Call me fucked up, but I find it disheartening when people think Hime is somehow the worse route. I mean, to be fair, I initially thought so as well because of the old phrasings (and the old art made her look like an obnoxious prat, which ironically is more an Inari thing in the final product). But Tobs himself has stated there isn’t a right or wrong route; it really comes down to which extreme you’re more inclined to. Is it better for Kinu to be a people-pleaser to a fault or stubborn to a fault?
Personally, I’d say neither and I think most people here think so too. But that’s unfortunately not an option because Tobs wants to torture us with a tough decision, and that would be the obvious right answer. So when it really comes down to it, I feel like Hime at least has a safety net to fall back on because she’s more willing to seek help when she needs it (eventually anyway because she doesn’t want to be a burden to others). Inari ironically has the worse of Not-Asian culture in that she won’t seek help even if she needs it and will stubbornly try to power through and/or deny there’s a problem. Which is actually why I compare her and Nakano a lot. They are both victims of tragedies partly of their own making and they refuse to acknowledge any other view but what they believe is right.
Actually, any way you spin it, the Kinus are products of their own home culture. Hime is just the more obvious one because she embraced her heritage as opposed to outright rejecting it. But Inari is definitely messed up as well, both from taking the “selfish” path and from unwittingly adopting the “fix your own problems, don’t dump them on someone else” attitude. Ironically, Inari is more like Kiyoko than Hime; just in reverse. It even gets remarked on in one of her dialogues, much to her chagrin.
I am going to end my half-jumbled ramble by saying that I understand the feeling of thinking you have to be everyone’s rock all the time and meet/exceed all expectations. It’s bitten me in the ass too many times, and I only finally learned to say “no” when I was hit by a very painful betrayal. But I still wouldn’t ever say it’s “wrong” or that I was “miserable” to be that person. I wasn’t always happy for sure, but I still take joy in bringing others joy or even just easing their burdens. In the same vein, I believe Hime is genuinely happy to look after everyone and sincere in her words.
Neither Hime nor Inari regret their paths, so I am of the firm opinion that while they may have hardships, they’ll both find balance and happiness in the end.
Also, Tobs, you’re really trying to make us sweat on Kinu being the People’s Princess thing, aren’t you?
I'm very reserved with my feelings, I'm not good at all at showing them if I'm not confortable with the setting but I can't quite say something I'm not feeling so I make for a awful liar. I don't like to admit it but I'm kind of a people pleaser, I tend to avoid conflicts or other things that can disrupt the harmony and since I tend to empathize with people I find it difficult to take actions to protect myself even if they are out to use me, it happened recently with a close family member but it is an issue I have been working on. So while I may be biased towards Inari's outspokenness, my behavior most days is more like Hime, though not exactly in a asian way I suppose.
The reasons why I think I judged Hime that way are that where I grew up, being too polite and formal with close family is very odd. Growing up I developed a deep bond with my mother, who despite having a japanese father ended up with a very western mindset. We are very frank and open with each other so seeing Hime acting that from the player's view threw me off pretty hard so my first and most powerful impression of her was that of insincerity.
The second reason was that as you said, there is an overlap of both paths but Hime is very empathetic and has a good relationship with her mother. The issue I'm talking here is abandoment issues. Inari is very lonely in her own home, now I had a hunch about this especially her reasons to like Hitoshi and this thing only drove me further down this conclusion: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XflG83K-SPlgtdoBcHhmdwJdlpNpvq41WBGLY3jlhKE/edit . Now, I don't know if Tobs wrote or if it even is relevant since it mentions Taoth( I'm not sure if he was cancelled or not) so taking this story in consideration is probaly a bad idea, but I think it fits well with Inari's theme. Her dad is still coming home occasionally except now he's taking Kiyoko along leaving Kinu to take careof the house and her siblings alone, not that it makes that much of a diference, Inari and Kiyoko don't get along anyway, in-game Inari mentions to the player that she wants to get married soon so she can get away from home, and her asking Hitoshi to impregnate her in the story so Kiyoko can't object their marriage is just a logical development. I can see why a guy like Hitoshi, who is big and doesn't have dreams of being a hero and dieying for a cause is so desirable to her, he makes her feel safe and protected and is very unlikely to leave her alone.
My mistake here was that I assumed that Hime felt a similar pain to Inari and that I ignored my own life experiences. My father went abroad when I was 2, we met again for a few months when I was 6 and he took my brother with him, only when i was 13 that we reunited for good but that's because mother and I left our country to join them. I don't hate him, we are both reserved with our emotions so we never talked about this. I could've been hurting like Inari does but mother gave me plenty of love and taught me to empathetic to people, never once she spoke ill of him to me so now I act and think like Hime. What happened cannot be changed, we can only move foward and do things differently. I see now his issues, he had plenty of shitty things happening to him, I can see somewhat why he did things the way he did, bringing up our past will only cause unnecessary pain which is something I don't want to. And that is why I think I was hypocritical in my judgment, I actually feel a bit ashamed so my apologizes.
To end my rant, I'm confused just like you there, I don't see why people would say Hime is miserable or not-hardworking. At first I also thought she was going to be the worse route but then I read some of Tobs's post on the matter. Also it is not like people in the west have a constant ''fuck you and your social hamony I do what I want idgf'' mentality. There's conformity for the sake of social harmony besides, Inari's issues with Kiyoko and her self-inflicted loneliness are pretty glaring issues, so far she is the more messed up of the two, though I heard that Tobs stated that Hime will hurt just as bad down the line.
Oh and by the way where can you find the dialog where it states that Inari is very similar to Kiyoko? I was already aware of this little irony but maybe I missed it in-game?
