Lilith's Throne (Early Alpha)

Diarmait

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2015
54
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I already know the main story hasn't been updated in a while. I come back to this one roughly every three to six months because of it for a couple days only. But this isn't the only game that has developers that do this. Seeing as how I'm not paying though, I can't complain.
 

DarthHavoc

Member
Feb 3, 2021
8
8
35
Not sure i can agree with your stance on this null. Walking away is definitely something anyone who has been following this game for a while now ought to do but throwing a warning up in this thread is not automatic butthurt. If i wasn't very familiar with the game or dev, i'd certainly be thankful to be warned such that i can either steer clear or at least go in with my sceptical glasses on.

There has been a lot of anger over in the blog in the last few months whenever i've bothered to look at it and that's its own discussion that really ought not be dragged over into here as a form of ongoing debate. But having one person alert potential new players to the development quagmire the game has found itself in is at least somewhat helpful.

As for a more formal explanation to potential new players. The game has about 5 hours of content if you really try. More if you make lots of new characters to try new things/combinations. There is only the first city that has 2 levels and a small side location. The main quest ends just after setting itself up to get the ball rolling and there's a bunch of side quests and named NPC's to romance. Though most of it is very underdeveloped and currently there has been about 6 months of constant delays with no real noticeable progress. There's a chance the development will recover, but there's a more likely chance this game is dead in the water at this point. Proceed as you see fit.
Thank you for wording it better than I did. I’ve been struggling with wording things lately so I appreciate how you explained it way better.
 

null_blank

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2015
2,752
3,429
Not sure i can agree with your stance on this null. Walking away is definitely something anyone who has been following this game for a while now ought to do but throwing a warning up in this thread is not automatic butthurt. If i wasn't very familiar with the game or dev, i'd certainly be thankful to be warned such that i can either steer clear or at least go in with my sceptical glasses on.

There has been a lot of anger over in the blog in the last few months whenever i've bothered to look at it and that's its own discussion that really ought not be dragged over into here as a form of ongoing debate. But having one person alert potential new players to the development quagmire the game has found itself in is at least somewhat helpful.

As for a more formal explanation to potential new players. The game has about 5 hours of content if you really try. More if you make lots of new characters to try new things/combinations. There is only the first city that has 2 levels and a small side location. The main quest ends just after setting itself up to get the ball rolling and there's a bunch of side quests and named NPC's to romance. Though most of it is very underdeveloped and currently there has been about 6 months of constant delays with no real noticeable progress. There's a chance the development will recover, but there's a more likely chance this game is dead in the water at this point. Proceed as you see fit.

There's a free build, there is no risk lol. Don't make me defend Ino because I really don't want to at this point. I've been following LT since maybe her 5th build of the game for quote some time. I know what's going on and how stupid people are being over it.
 
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Taboo-Sho

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2015
211
56
There's a free build, there is no risk lol. Don't make me defend Ino because I really don't want to at this point. I've been following LT since maybe her 5th build of the game for quote some time. I know what's going on and how stupid people are being over it.

Stupid? Really? So being mad that Inno outright lied about working on fields content, when they said they had been but they hadnt, had said they wont add new side content but then goes to work on a Named NPCS romance instead, then constantly delay, delay, and delay again anything new. Is stupid? The games been in Ver .3 for over a year now.
 

PaterNoster

Member
Jun 25, 2016
6
14
While being a long-time lurker, I've watched this game since the early days, and my feelings on this matter are... complex.

I really wouldn't say that Inno is lying per se. Over time I rather got the feeling of a quite unfocused and scatterbrained dev - not of maliciousness or a cash-grab, but rather poor project management skills, a lack of direction and an escalating series of self-doubts that just keep worsening the issues. The comment sections on her blog have long since devolved into something extremely toxic (to put it mildly) where a handful of people are still desperately fighting an uphill battle to keep things constructive, so I will gladly admit that I'm very on edge whenever someone calls her a liar.

I really have enjoyed the game for what it is over the months and years, and have certainly played it far more than a couple of hours over various builds. The main story (and even the side-quests) by themselves are not that extensive, that much I agree on, but the game is sandbox-y and customizable (even without mods) enough that I've always had fun with a new character whenever I came back to it.
It is pretty unfocused and all-over-the-place with the content, though. The foundations are there, and they are pretty solid and extensive (the clothing system, the generated characters, the races, the transformation system, etc.)... but Inno has a bad habit of going back to them too much over and over again. They generally turn out much improved - but this is ~70% of the reason the game's overall development is moving at the pace it is. And - as far as I can recall - Inno has had the conviction on pulling the plug on any of those loads and loads of baseline features and moving on only once (the NPC companions following you around... I'm still sad about it, but it needed to be done).
The game is, in a way (unless I have the expression backwards), "a mile wide, an inch deep" - there's quite a lot of stuff in there for you to make your own fun, but... not much inherent content has seen the light of day in a long, long time.

Add to that the fact that Inno has always had a rather slow workpace, has never been able to eyeball how much longer she will need for any given feature or release and occasionally randomly stops posting about her progress... and you get the perfect storm of rather common single indie-dev woes, building up fan resentment over the years. I'd guess that the whole global 2020 situation has been as kind to her productivity as with many other creatives while putting all of us players on edge, too.


I do hope she keeps working on the game, slowly and surely as it has always been. If anyone doesn't want to give her money, that's fair and I get it. If people are miffed about her poor communication, slow workpace, lack of focus... yeah, I get that, and that's fair. If you want to "warn" people about the state of things, sure, I can't blame you either, I guess.
But the comment section of her blog has deteriorated so far already that I really don't think we should keep calling her a liar or a fraud or any other of those harsh words. The whole world has been suffering for a whole year now, and unless there's some proof (or multiple interconnected clues) of actual malicious intent on Inno's part that I'm not aware of... well, the constant rather harsh accusations made me come out of lurkerdom to say my piece.


TL;DR: I really don't think Inno is a "liar" - I just can't see any malicious intent so far, only a solo indie-dev with awful project management skills who always had loads of trouble with focus and time/workload estimates. So "warn" people if you feel it's necessary, but please try to stay away from bad faith arguments (especially in these already unfun times).
 

DarkSinfulMage

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2016
253
44
41
If I were handed the codebase, I'd probably do the following:

- Complete remaining work on content mod / writing support - I just think people should start writing stuff for the game, because it seems to have worked out for COC and TITS.
- Finish the overworld map, start putting down cities.
- Content and scenes to spring on the player with NPCs trying to do what the PC is doing.
- Make a set of characters that will inhabit all of the cities, and do not make more until they have all of their standard content.
- Make dating and relationship building fun.
- Develop - however one can - the slaving and cohabitation content and gameplay. This is the most neglected part aside from the main story.
- Try to develop the existing characters in terms of content. Add as few new ones as possible. Leave new characters to community writers.
- Rebalance the game - maintain combat development whenever.

I think these should be Inno's priorities. In all honesty the entire game could be set in the current city, but there just isn't enough to do except push buttons to dispense sex. I think other characters should be trying to grow themselves, change themselves or others more often. On their own. It makes it interesting.
 
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DarthHavoc

Member
Feb 3, 2021
8
8
35
If I were handed the codebase, I'd probably do the following:

- Complete remaining work on content mod / writing support - I just think people should start writing stuff for the game, because it seems to have worked out for COC and TITS.
- Finish the overworld map, start putting down cities.
- Content and scenes to spring on the player with NPCs trying to do what the PC is doing.
- Make a set of characters that will inhabit all of the cities, and do not make more until they have all of their standard content.
- Make dating and relationship building fun.
- Develop - however one can - the slaving and cohabitation content and gameplay. This is the most neglected part aside from the main story.
- Try to develop the existing characters in terms of content. Add as few new ones as possible. Leave new characters to community writers.
- Rebalance the game - maintain combat development whenever.

I think these should be Inno's priorities. In all honesty the entire game could be set in the current city, but there just isn't enough to do except push buttons to dispense sex. I think other characters should be trying to grow themselves, change themselves or others more often. On their own. It makes it interesting.
Just no. CoC and TiTS have a story to them and build on it. Inno said her “game” would as well and has lied refusing to touch it or expand it because her discord gets all say and wants nothing but side quests and romances for npcs while everyone else who isn’t in the discord has been begging for the fields and more story content which she has ignored and silenced everyone on the blog who has been calling her out for her lies and favoring discord.
 

Taboo-Sho

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2015
211
56
While being a long-time lurker, I've watched this game since the early days, and my feelings on this matter are... complex.

TL;DR: I really don't think Inno is a "liar" - I just can't see any malicious intent so far, only a solo indie-dev with awful project management skills who always had loads of trouble with focus and time/workload estimates. So "warn" people if you feel it's necessary, but please try to stay away from bad faith arguments (especially in these already unfun times).

SHE HAS LIED! She said she was working on Fields content, THEN OUTRIGHT CAME OUT AND SAID SHE HADNT WORKED ON IT, months later! That is the LITERAL definition of a liar!
 

DarkSinfulMage

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2016
253
44
41
Just no. CoC and TiTS have a story to them and build on it. Inno said her “game” would as well and has lied refusing to touch it or expand it because her discord gets all say and wants nothing but side quests and romances for npcs while everyone else who isn’t in the discord has been begging for the fields and more story content which she has ignored and silenced everyone on the blog who has been calling her out for her lies and favoring discord.

With language as caustic as that - I'd probably be ignoring and silencing people, too.

I didn't mention the story, but I'd say completing the story will require organizing the characters and content needed beforehand as above.

Anyways, I don't know much about Innoxia, but I don't think this is a matter of organization or motivation anymore. It's time to get help with the project if they want to see it finished - whatever's going on in real life external to the game is obviously too much in the way. You can't solve real life - that's why we get help.
 

DarthHavoc

Member
Feb 3, 2021
8
8
35
With language as caustic as that - I'd probably be ignoring and silencing people, too.

I didn't mention the story, but I'd say completing the story will require organizing the characters and content needed beforehand as above.

Anyways, I don't know much about Innoxia, but I don't think this is a matter of organization or motivation anymore. It's time to get help with the project if they want to see it finished - whatever's going on in real life external to the game is obviously too much in the way. You can't solve real life - that's why we get help.
Funny you say that because Inno has stated flat out she refuses to get any help. People have said she needs it numerous times and she has refused every time stating constantly changing reasons.
 
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Dormane

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2015
96
33
Review: Just tried this game and was shocked how good it is even though it is obviously still in it's early phase and I admire your dedication to it. Very pleased in particularly with the TF system, dynamic character creation and the support for the edgier/rarer fetishes (which can still be disabled). Lore and world building is also interesting as well. Overall it reminds me of Flexible Survival crossed with CoC. It is also neat that the source code is available to modders and I may give it a try even though I am not very familiar with Java or the JVM.

BUG (v0.3.6.1): Only complaint is that the UI becomes sluggish and eventually unresponsive after playing for a couple hours and it even becomes impossible to save. Exiting the programming and running it agian restores it like brand new but I often lose my save (thank goodness for autosaves!). I'm far from an expert on Java but my best guess is poor garbage collection. Note that my JRE is up to date.

Request: Any plans for unbirthing content and fetish? What about giant races or macro content?
 

null_blank

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2015
2,752
3,429
BUG (v0.3.6.1): Only complaint is that the UI becomes sluggish and eventually unresponsive after playing for a couple hours and it even becomes impossible to save.
My advice would be to use the .exe version to avoid this. If you use windows that is.
 
Mar 12, 2021
10
1
25
This game is really good. I would donate to the creators if the updates felt like there was more content.
But even if they abandoned the game as is I would still recommend it.

I think my favorite part is the ability to change enemy behaviors, which is really nice.
 

Al Gore

Member
Jul 28, 2019
20
24
lmao this game is still in development hell and the rage has spilled over into these forums. I would say that Patreon funding for game development is a mistake but then again it did give us Breeders of the Nephelym so I guess it really depends on the dev.
 
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karunama

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
443
221
lmao this game is still in development hell and the rage has spilled over into these forums. I would say that Patreon funding for game development is a mistake but then again it did give us Breeders of the Nephelym so I guess it really depends on the dev.

Breeders of the Nephelym is something of a sore spot for me, personally. They had a really bad case of promising things they had no intention of delivering (M/M etc.)
 
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Al Gore

Member
Jul 28, 2019
20
24
Breeders of the Nephelym is something of a sore spot for me, personally. They had a really bad case of promising things they had no intention of delivering (M/M etc.)
I thought the dev said he wouldn't do M/M because it's not his thing? I could be wrong. Either way the game at its core is unrivaled in the market despite also being a Patreon game with one dev.
 

Diarmait

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2015
54
16
37
Breeders of the Nephelym is something of a sore spot for me, personally. They had a really bad case of promising things they had no intention of delivering (M/M etc.)

That is surprisingly one game I have not heard of. What's it about?
 

Al Gore

Member
Jul 28, 2019
20
24
That is surprisingly one game I have not heard of. What's it about?
If you've ever heard of Breeding Season (A popular Patreon porn game that died mid-development a few years back) it's basically a 3d version of that game. It mostly focuses on M/F and Futa with a sort of sandbox breeding simulator style. I mention it in this thread because it's an example of a high-quality Patreon porn game where the dev actually delivered.
 

Diarmait

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2015
54
16
37
If you've ever heard of Breeding Season (A popular Patreon porn game that died mid-development a few years back) it's basically a 3d version of that game. It mostly focuses on M/F and Futa with a sort of sandbox breeding simulator style. I mention it in this thread because it's an example of a high-quality Patreon porn game where the dev actually delivered.

Ah okay. Have played Breading Season and it felt like it was cut short. To me, it felt similar to Lilith's Throne development wise. But I do come back to this one every now and then. I honestly am not bothered if the game has the main story expanded or side content added, but I usually give up on games that seem to have neither.
 
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null_blank

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Oct 29, 2015
2,752
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I honestly don't understand the love for Nyan. If anything, her new dating questline has made the character more annoying. Her store now opens later and closes earlier than everyone else in the shopping arcade.
 

karunama

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
443
221
I thought the dev said he wouldn't do M/M because it's not his thing? I could be wrong. Either way the game at its core is unrivaled in the market despite also being a Patreon game with one dev.

Yes, he did... but only after months of promising that he *was* going to do it. He essentially claimed that he thought he 'had' to include M/M content and other things he didn't personally enjoy, and it wasn't until he was successful without them in the game that he realized he could just reneg on those promises without any consequences.
 

Al Gore

Member
Jul 28, 2019
20
24
Yes, he did... but only after months of promising that he *was* going to do it. He essentially claimed that he thought he 'had' to include M/M content and other things he didn't personally enjoy, and it wasn't until he was successful without them in the game that he realized he could just reneg on those promises without any consequences.
I guess that is a pretty shitty thing to do. Still, being indecisive and admitting he didn't want something in his game once is better than the trainwreck of LT development where the dev is constantly working on Valve time and changing promises.
 

DarthHavoc

Member
Feb 3, 2021
8
8
35
I honestly don't understand the love for Nyan. If anything, her new dating questline has made the character more annoying. Her store now opens later and closes earlier than everyone else in the shopping arcade.
Welcome to what happens when the discord server gets entire say over what Inno adds to the game and what gets priority over anything else.
 
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null_blank

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Oct 29, 2015
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Welcome to what happens when the discord server gets entire say over what Inno adds to the game and what gets priority over anything else.
why wouldn't she listen to the discord server? She can tell who is a backer by discord role alone.

Also, I never liked Nyan lol
 

DarthHavoc

Member
Feb 3, 2021
8
8
35
why wouldn't she listen to the discord server? She can tell who is a backer by discord role alone.

Also, I never liked Nyan lol
That’s just it only discord wanted nyan content at the expense of any story or field content. Plus any backer who is not in the discord and stuck to the blog is always ignored. This is why everyone despises her discord even if they are not a backer in it they get full say over what is worked on and what is added hence the massive backlash Inno was getting on the blog.
 

RiyuG

Member
Oct 23, 2018
7
3
37
Probably not the best place to post bugs, but it seemed to work last time so who knows?
Noticed with lamia and wyvern forced transformations get stuck. Lamia (or melusine) transformations try to transform your leg shape into snake body before actually giving you snake legs so the transformation gets stuck (unless you give yourself snake legs, then it proceeds as normal). Wyverns on the other hand transform your arms into dragon type, then later try to give you dragon wing type arms, which apparently fails and gets stuck.

Also wondering if anyone knows how to get pheonix-harpy transformation? doesn't seem to be an option with potions and also cannot be forced. Was thinking I had remembered it being one of two possible results from going demon, but then ran into a pheonix-fury (demon pheonix) and that made me throw that theory out the window, though to be fair, I have never tried to go demon so maybe still a possibility?
 

RiyuG

Member
Oct 23, 2018
7
3
37
I do enjoy this game. Can completely understand the frustrations when it comes to the main questline not getting updated. Hopefully though the side content is ironed out enough that it can be easily reproduced and slightly modified for the additional towns that are to be generated. I can understand putting effort into completing clubs and slavery and dating content if you're planning to reproduce it later (hopefully with some variations to keep it from getting stale). If none of this content is repeated in the slightest then I can definitely agree to the lack of direction on the project causing unnecessary delays. Personally I'm a big fan of scales so the addition of snakes and dragons to the list of transformations makes me happy. Same with the support that allows for spiders/driders, and octopi so these additions I felt were worthwhile, but for those who like to remain human or bipedal they wouldn't see value here.

With the last two updates, Ino started releasing the fields and the second town, but at the moment the content is very hollow. Most things in the new town are closed, and the only thing that seems to spawn in the field are centaur demons that run away after you defeat them (and sex them up of course) like any enemy you fight on the streets in an arcane storm. Looking forward to seeing the content three months down the road.

Overall that is probably the big issue here, the one person development team means that content releases tend to take a long time to come out. And as many people point out, if the content Ino wants to release is some new side quest or engine support everything else goes on hold. The game itself IS GOOD especially if you like furry content and want a wide variety of body shape and transformation support. This is a game I come back too often and would recommend to anybody with the same weird niche kinks I got since it easily represents them far better than most any other game I've seen so far.
 

Mario

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2016
68
22
Having replayed the game recently after 2 years not touching it, it has come a decent way in the main city. But the main story has not progressed by much, there are a bunch of side quests and the main difference I do see is loads more of transformation options and increase in sex position to accomodate for more varied body types. Its fun to play and I did find a nice surprise, when a ring gag was forced on my character after a loss and the defeat sex scene happened, which took me by surprise, and would have been rather expensive to remove. That was really a great surprise.

However, the main story lacks support and the focus on different transformations has lead to less support on other systems. Slavery is still a bit lack luster overall and whatever happend to player character being enslaved by NPCs. I was honestly waiting for that, as it was outlined as part of future updates.

I'm not going to engage in any of the drama surrounding the developer. My biggest gripe is probably the unwillingness to take on a co-writer. Being a single developer game is slowing down progress and I am pretty sure, the game would get enough financial support from fans to allow the developer to pay their bills and hire a co-writer. Maybe just as a coder to speed things up. The basis of the game is still great and the amount you can do and that can happen to you shows how strong the basics are. Sure, combat is still broken to due lack of balance etc; but those things could be tweaked with enough work put into them. Right now the game looks just aimless and suffering from feature-creep delay. Rather than progress the main story, it looks to be more important to add a new feature, a new transformation, a new sex position. All those are nice, but someone should also work on the story, the lore, side quests, balance of combat, skills and perks, fleshing out of NPCs and all that and honestly, for one person thats just to much.
 
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