Lilith's Throne (Early Alpha)

Discussion in 'Showcase' started by Innoxia, Mar 1, 2017.

  1. Innoxia

    Innoxia Well-Known Member

    Feb 15, 2017

    I was recommended to create a post here about the game I'm making, so here it is!

    Lilith's Throne

    Lilith's throne is a text-based erotic RPG, in which you travel through a world filled with demons, magic, and lots of sex! The game has been developed solely by me, Innoxia, and is currently in a very early alpha.

    Lilith's Throne is an RPG, and follows your character after they're transported into an alternate dimension, where demons, magic, and mythological creatures are considered normal! Some of the game's main features are:
    • Several explorable, tile-based maps.
    • Turn-based sex, which gives you a lot of control over how a sex scene plays out.
    • Randomised, persistent NPCs, who can be fully transformed!
    • Levelling systems for perks and fetishes. (Currently 30 fetishes, with plans for a lot more!)
    • Fully transformable bodies, allowing you to turn yourself into all sorts of different races!
    • A lot of clothing (currently 230+ items) for you to customise your character with.
    • Options to set your personal preferences for NPC furryness, gender, and gender pronouns.
    • Lots of sex! ^^

    More information

    If you'd like some more information about the game, I'm active on my blog:

    There's also a Lilith's Throne discord you're welcome to join:

    I no longer have a Patreon page. I'll have hopefully set up an alternative support page within the next few weeks.

    Current version: (21st January 2020)

    You can find all of the patch notes and download links in this post on my blog:

    Thanks for reading, and I hope you enjoy the game!




    #1 Innoxia, Mar 1, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  2. lolcp123

    lolcp123 New Member

    Feb 6, 2016
    I really like what you have so far. The UI is intuitive and polished. I perks and effects are cool and open up a lot of future options. The game is already pretty fun even though the content is currently limited. I look forward to where you are going with it. One thing that I would like to see is if you lose to a random encounter they could choose the oral option like you can against them.
  3. Mysiath

    Mysiath New Member

    Dec 5, 2016
    I have to say that this is fantastic, absolutely fantastic. I loved the scene with Brax, the dominate Brax scene. That's some good writing there and it's lewd.

    One thing that put me off on the 'character confirm screen' (true human; ears on either side of the head) I think the word true is rather unnecessary and on either side of the head is unnecessary too. Unless one ear is chopped off then you could point it out that she/he didn't have two ears.

    And after the horror comes panic. The dialogue of 'aaaaaaAAAAAA' could be removed. Perhaps combine the first and second paragraph?

    From a writer's view I have to thank you. My vocabulary for writing smut, porn, erotic, whatever do you want to call it is improving. Props there. This thread will be bookmarked because it's lewd, great, and epic.

    Kudos, man, kudos. You've done and achieved excellent.
  4. MotoKuchoma

    MotoKuchoma Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2015
    I'm confused by the menu for pronouns. Can't I just enter what's relevant for my character and be done with it? Right now with a androgynous body Lily still refers to you as girl anyways regardless of what you put in btw (surely there is more like this)
  5. Innoxia

    Innoxia Well-Known Member

    Feb 15, 2017
    Thanks for your feedback and kind words!

    To answer your questions:
    That should already be in the game, maybe you've just got unlucky with NPCs always choosing to go for full sex...

    Although it might not make it into the game for a few versions yet, I'm planning on adding the ability to influence the NPC's choices during sex. For example, you'll be able to drop to your knees in order to tempt the NPC to go for oral.

    I'll change the on either side of the head description, as well as removing the 'true' part from 'true human'.
    (I actually only added the 'true' part as a placeholder when I needed a word for a human's racial descriptor, but then forgot to remove it...)

    I'll also look back over that part of the prologue; the huge row of "aaa's" is probably unnecessary. ^^

    The pronouns menu is only really half-implemented, as I ran out of time last week to finish it properly. I'm planning on leaving the gender names as a global value, but making all the other pronouns player-specific as you suggest. This should make it into tomorrow's release.

    (Edit: The pronouns change didn't make it into v0.1.68, but it'll definitely be done for v0.1.69!)
    #5 Innoxia, Mar 3, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
    Incuboss likes this.
  6. IAmTheDeviantFriend

    IAmTheDeviantFriend Well-Known Member

    Mar 26, 2016
    @Innoxia Where should we post bugs? I didn't see anything about it when skimming your blog.
  7. MotoKuchoma

    MotoKuchoma Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2015
    Oh btw are masculine dudes with dicks and feminine women with pussies the only possible enemies right now? With so much gender variation I half expected the "You don't know their genitals" part to mean you actually can't know before-hand yet I haven't encountered any futas etc.
  8. Innoxia

    Innoxia Well-Known Member

    Feb 15, 2017
    It'd probably be best to report bugs as a comment to the latest release post. Thanks for bringing this up, I've added a sentence to this effect in the 'current release' section on my blog!

    Standard males and females are the only possible enemies at the moment, but I plan on adding futas and traps to the game as well. I'll probably make traps and futas act like girls, but then they'll have a surprise in sex scenes, provided that their bulge isn't big enough to give themselves away. (When I add them, I wonder if I should leave them out of the patch notes as an extra surprise...)

    Oh, and I also just updated the game to version 0.1.68!

    You can see the release post on my blog:

    Or just get the direct download: Mega
  9. MotoKuchoma

    MotoKuchoma Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2015
    I like that idea. If you're out there shagging random strangers you shouldn't get to choose what they pack and what they're into. Also I'd prefer femboy as term over trap, as well as it'd also be fair to add masculine tomboys.
  10. Kesil

    Kesil Well-Known Member

    Aug 26, 2015
    I'd say that "femboy"=! trap. Unlike traps, femboys and tomboys do not want to fool you into thinking they are gals/guys.
    TheDarkMaster likes this.
  11. MotoKuchoma

    MotoKuchoma Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2015
    I'm gonna argue my point even though a similar thing got me banned in the past v.v
    The term trap irl is usually applied to transwomen who keep their trans status secret. The deception part is usually something they're accused of to justify violence against them. Look up trans panic defense if you will.

    I've been running against this particular windmill online a lot but this is what I think.
    wibble likes this.
  12. Kesil

    Kesil Well-Known Member

    Aug 26, 2015
    We're not talking about real life or trans people here.
  13. balitz Method

    balitz Method Well-Known Member

    Aug 13, 2016
    Yeah, despite how it may sound that's not actually what most people are referring to when they use the word trap to refer to an androgynous guy and it doesn't actually have any implications of gender or sexuality - or even deception.

    What happened was Westerners on message boards and other places in the early 00s would make the same joke over and over when they'd see otokonoko (which is in itself a goofy pun) characters and art from Japan; characters like Bridget from Guilty Gear and such. So the whole "trap" thing doesn't come from the idea that these characters were trying to trick anyone; it's from the Admiral Ackbar line (that would be the repeated meme joke) that people would say in response. Over time people just started calling the characters themselves traps (and so "reverse trap" refers then to androgynous girls). There's very little if any negative connotation behind it since the people using the joke in the first place were fans of these types of characters.

    It's not really something that applies outside of fiction - though some people take to calling themselves traps and the like but typically there's v. little bleedover - and as mentioned it makes no assumptions. Traps often still think of themselves as boys (but don't have to), may or may not crossdress at all, don't necessarily like other boys or girls and so on. None of those things are actually part of the character archetype; it's entirely about a boy being androgynous to the point where other people often mistake them for girls. That's it. People who aren't overly familiar with the anime scene have heard it and thought it calls back to much darker things when they're not actually related.
    Emerald and Kesil like this.
  14. balitz Method

    balitz Method Well-Known Member

    Aug 13, 2016
    Oh and also the game lets you set the terms yourself which is an awesome idea if you do have hangups over some particular phrase or another. Really, this is the most promising lewd game I've seen in a while. So much thought goes into every aspect, even with little things like this.

    With the other issue that got brought up - whether for the player or in the future with rando enemy encounters - it might be a good idea to add a toggleable mechanic that makes dialogue refer to a character as what they appear to be (masculine or feminine) if the speaker hasn't seen their genitals and then, if/when they do see them, they'll refer to them with their "proper" designation. That way players can decide if their PC's gender will be confusing to NPCs as well as lay the groundwork for the PC to be confused by the gender of NPCs.
    Incuboss likes this.
  15. MotoKuchoma

    MotoKuchoma Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2015
    I've had this discussion over and over again, I won't argue this beyond that. And especially I wont bother to discuss someone who seriously thinks this has to do with Star Wars.
  16. Mario

    Mario Well-Known Member

    Aug 5, 2016
    Gave it a go. Its a rather nice start of a game so far.

    Some issues I found while playing:

    Some perks on the character improvement sheet did not show any information when I moused over and only showed what they meant once I clicked on them for a mere fraction of a second. The cursor flickered like a fast rotating pulsar while the cursor was hovering over the perks. This happend to right of the tree by the two perks below "flirty" and add the fetish-perk list to the three perks at the utmost right, including "submissive" and ... "pregnant" and "virginity"-perks (guessing because I am not sure about those two actually being said two).
    Minimizing the program and doing something different on the PC, for example writing a message in skype, and then returning to the game led to it becoming totally unresponsive forcing me to close it and restart it anew.
    Overall there were some game crashes when it become unresponsive and had to be closed.
    (I am using win7 and newest Java so not sure what may have caused it since it is the setup you recommended)

    Balancing needs to be addressed. For now combat is waaaaaay to easy, especially if you get to Level 4 or 5. Doing 100+ willpower damage with a single submissve tease towards Brax was kind of ... lame :D. Random encounters are also beyond tense at that point. Enemies do far to less damage compared to the player.
    Sex-scenes when winning don't work. They beg to suck your dick or to get fucked but nothing happens. Getting fucked or sucking however works fine. It should be said, as a personal thought, that after a win and then using the "submit" option to the enemy should not really be considered a non-consentual act, since the player invited being dominated as kind of a "role-play". That way you gain corruption way to fast.

    The transformation aspect for now is rather confusing. Is it possible to return to human after you transformed in a wolf-boy? How about gender transformation. Losing to Brax turns you into a full blown wolf-girl but it should be possible to get back to a male human from that somehow.

    Btw pls don't make "submit to Brax after beating him because you like to be submissive"-sex scene the same as when you flatout get defeated by him. It should be a difference in play if you just beat a foe and then want to be sub in the sex-scene afterwards. Essentially you won and call the shots and just allow the loser to act as "winner" because thats what gets you going instead of being no difference between losing a fight and having the "submisse"-kink and wanting to enjoy that.
    Incuboss likes this.
  17. Laughingfox

    Laughingfox Member

    Dec 16, 2016
    That can be a slippery slope, though. If somebody has to write a scene for being defeated, AND a scene for submitting, in addition to all the traditional victory-- well, that could potentially be a lot more required time and effort for every critter and encounter out there. I could be wrong, though.
  18. Mario

    Mario Well-Known Member

    Aug 5, 2016
    The scenes in random encounters can be the usual texts (thus not more work), just don't gain corruption from it because you consented in a rough treatment. The corruption gained after a defeat atm is because your aura gets corrupted from being at the receiving end of non-consentual sex. Winning and then "play-acting" a defeat should be somewhat different from actually losing.

    Major NPCs like Brax should have different scenes written for them if you offer the choice because of a perk/feat etc.
  19. Somethingtofear

    Somethingtofear New Member

    Mar 5, 2017
    As Mario has already said, combat feels very easy currently. Seduction is far, far more powerful than either magic or basic attacks, to an almost ridiculous level: Even outside of arcane storms (which make it easy for a level 1 player to defeat a level 3 enemy in less than three rounds) Seduction always seems to do more damage than base attacks. This is likely because Corruption boosts your damage and lowers the enemy's defenses, while physical and elemental attacks are usually doing base damage against base resistance.

    The Corruption scale favors either being Pure if not spamming Seduction, or being Lustful/Corrupt if you are, depending on what "Obeys Lilin" eventually does. There isn't any real difference between Vanilla and Corrupt: at every level, the damage boost is equal to the defense lost from it. The only corruption level with a different ratio is Pure, which, strangely, doesn't incur a Seduction damage penalty, instead giving only a resist bonus. I'm not saying this should be changed, but it seems like it'd make sense for the numbers to not just cancel out; Pure would be defensive at the cost of offense, say, 20% more res and -33% damage, Corrupt would be much more vulnerable while also being more damaging, something like 30% more damage and -25% resistant, and somewhere like Horny would be the neutral 0/0 point. This is a minor issue relative to the rest, though.

    Strangely, none of the core attributes seem to actually scale damage up or down: debugging between 10 and 100 strength only seems to raise crit damage, health, and resistances. The same goes for intelligence and fitness: "Arcane Affinity" just seems to function as an arcane crit chance, unless I'm mistaken, and Fitness just raises physical crit chance.

    A separate but related issue, that only really will matter when these stats seem to actually make a difference, is the fact that there's no reason to put stat points in anything but intelligence: TF items and the Gym appear to raise Str and Fit infinitely, and enough Lilith or Angel drinks can raise Corruption to 100, or lower it back to 0, but no such mechanic seems to exist for Int. This will probably be fixed soon enough, but it's still worth noting.

    Actually, speaking of Int, magic seems more or less worthless, even ignoring the Seduction issues. An attack spell's max damage seems to consistently be lower or very close to the same weapon's minimum physical damage, while also inflicting self Willpower damage. The DoT effect does not make up for this: would you rather do 20-30 right now, or 16-24, plus 1 for the next two rounds? Slam is the only spell that seems effective, due to the stunning effect and higher base damage. Fireball also has the higher damage, but, again, just swinging would be just as useful, as the DoT on it doesn't seem to help as much. Also, spells don't seem to scale with rarity: a purple and a blue rarity demonstone both have the same damage range. Of course, none of this matters, because you could just use Seduction and do twice as much as anything else at the same level.


    With a bit more testing, it seems the reason Seduction is so overpowered is because it literally adds the damages of both your melee and ranged weapons together, plus some inherent bonus based on your current level.

    That should probably be changed.

    A few final things: Indefatigable + Masochist seems like it'd make the player stupidly tanky, the item drops from enemies give a lot of cash when sold, making money management a nonissue, and the UI is a bit confusing: it's not immediately obvious that one bar means damage, while two bars means resistance, or what "Pure" even refers to - I'm still not sure about that last one. Some stats themselves are also a bit confusing: does Arcane Affinity modify spell cost, spell crit chance, spell accuracy, or spell damage? Is Critical more damage or more chance? These things need to be more obvious; put them in the Encyclopedia on the phone, or something smiliar. Beyond that, the issues are mostly in the balancing problems I mentioned above.

    Also, Mario, Angel Tears make you human and lower corruption, while Flaming Thunder changes various things to boost masculinity, and you need to click your worn pants/underwear to pull them aside during sex scenes.

    Edit: Oh, and people with the Virginity Fetish can still initiate vaginal sex, causing them to lose their virginity. Wasn't that supposed to be patched out? Non-virgins can take the Virginity Fetish as well, for some reason.
    #19 Somethingtofear, Mar 5, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
  20. Innoxia

    Innoxia Well-Known Member

    Feb 15, 2017
    Wow, that's a lot of replies! ^^

    In reference to the gender-term discussion, I'm going to improve the gender pronoun menu for the next release, so you can use whatever pronouns/names you feel more comfortable with.

    And now, onto the two big replies (I've numbered the parts of your replies so I can reply to them easier):
    (1) I've identified the cause of this bug, and it will be fixed for the next release, thanks for the report!

    (2) I'll investigate this and do my best to track down the cause and get it fixed. (It may be something related to JavaFX though, in which case, I may not be able to fix it...)

    (3) Combat balance is pretty much non-existent at the moment. This is at the top of my list of things to get fixed for the next version, so it should be a lot better soon! I'm going to re-work the damage values for all aspects of combat, and make it a lot clearer in the UI how damage values and different attacks work.

    (4) As Somethingtofear said, you need to remove your clothing in dominant sex, as the submissive partner doesn't have permission. I'm going to make this a lot clearer in the UI, as it's not very intuitive at the moment.

    (5) Corruption gains from voluntarily submitting is a bug that will be fixed for the next version.

    (6) Again, as Somethingtofear said, you can use Angel's Tears to get human transformations. All TF mechanics are going the massively overhauled soon (probably in v0.1.7), to make it a lot easier to get the TFs that you want.

    (7) As Laughingfox said, this will require a lot more writing (even if I just limit it to big boss scenes). Although I would like to spend time expanding all the current sex scenes, I think I'm going to go more down the route of 'more enemies with a few sex scenes' rather than 'a few enemies with loads of sex scenes'. Obviously the ideal situation is to have 'more enemies with loads of sex scenes', but I am, unfortunately, limited by the amount of time I get to write content for the game each week.

    (1) Thanks for all the detailed feedback on combat balance! I've read through it all, and agree with your assessment of how some aspects are clearly overpowered. I'm going to be doing a huge re-work of combat balance for the next version, and I'll refer back to the helpful points both you and Mario have made about it! (Sorry for cutting so much of your quote out by the way!)

    (2) I need to balance the core attribute bonus values, which will be done as part of the combat rework, thanks for bringing this up!

    (3) I'm going to change how the gym works, probably by changing the attribute increases into timed status effects. As part of the TF re-work, you're going to be able to gain core attributes from crafting potions, so there will be some major re-balancing of how attributes are gained at that point. (Probably in version 0.1.7.)

    (4) There seem to be a lot of opportunities to make overpowered perk combinations. This will be more of a long-term balancing issue, and I'll adjust the values of perks as development progresses.

    (5) Money and income will be balanced out as the game progresses. I'm going to add some money sinks (possibly in crafting), but once again, this will be a long-term balancing issue.

    (6) I used those icons as a temporary placeholder, but haven't got around to changing them yet. I'll get that done for the next version!

    (7) I think it was a mistake using the term 'pure', as it doesn't quite work as you'd expect. Pure damage and resistance just add that value to all of your damage and resistances (instead of cutting through resistances like in most other games). I'm going to change how pure damage/resistances work as part of the combat overhaul.

    (8) I didn't get time to implement this for all sex scenes, but it should be done for the next version! I'll also give the virginity fetish a 'still a virgin' requirement.

    Thanks for all your detailed feedback! I've added all these issues to my bug tracker, so I'll get around to fixing them as soon as possible!
  21. danon

    danon Member

    Mar 9, 2016
    I am pretty impressed, clear UI, solid writing and good approach to the sex scenes
    Do you know Trapquest? It's imho one of the (porn) games with the most replayability around, so you might want to crib some design from there (since to me TiTS is more a customized fanfiction dispenser/interactive movie than a game).
  22. Mario

    Mario Well-Known Member

    Aug 5, 2016
    Nice to see I wasn't so far off with the corruption gain from voluntary submitting :D.

    Funny how removing my on clothing on victory-sex did not occur to me at all ... but that was more my bad because I was just not used to having to think about clothing effects in a sex-game. Usually that stuff happened by itself and I was kind of expecting the same here.

    My general advice would be to work on the balancing of things rather sooner then later. For now you have only 3 NPC-Level and Brax to balance to the PC and that should be far easier than later on, when you have a whole bunch of them and want to create a balance then. The same goes to a lesser degree for money and income. It should be easier now then later.
    Building a robust combat system with what you have already should be do-able and you can build on that when going into the next area. Maybe introduce a level-cap at some point also. For now it is possible to reach Level 6 fairly easily and thats just way more then any NPC there are to encounter. Level 4 max would suffice for now.
    Of course that might make it dificult perk-wise; on the other hand there is no need to pick combat-perks at all right now, just fetish stuff. MC gets powerful enough as it is and does not need to worry about stuff like "brawler" of buffing magic.

    I would suggest to limit the MC to Level 4 for now, massively reduce the damage he does with tease and magic/physical attacks and give the MC 2 perks per Level. One for combat and one for sexual perks/fetishes. It would not hurt if the combat takes longer with lower damage dealt because now its just a matter of 1 round. At some point enemies should also use teases with more effect if the player has selected a certain fetish-perk to make the MC feel more vulnerable to them (just as a thought).

    One point I failed to mention:
    The sex-scenes themselves are great :). Truly something I have not seen in that way so far and very enjoyable. Well done and the game is worth playing just for that already.
  23. balitz Method

    balitz Method Well-Known Member

    Aug 13, 2016
    As mentioned in the other topic the fetishes don't work like they do in other games because the sex scenes themselves don't work like they do in other games. Picking one is really no different than any other perk; it has strengths and weaknesses associated with it. An already-implemented example is Brax having a weakness to submissive teasing. Treating the fetishes like "freebies" or otherwise separate from the "serious" combat perks doesn't make sense here. Both because character development in general goes from less deviant > more deviant (so developing fetishes is just one more part of character building as the game goes) and because the fetishes are geared to work the same way that magic or physical ones do.

    And balance issues aside a player might not want any fetishes at all as part of their build so the points would be a complete waste. As far as this one particular aspect goes I think it's already on the right track and doesn't need any major reworking.
  24. MotoKuchoma

    MotoKuchoma Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2015
    Its called Tales of Androgyny now. I talked to the dev and they also agreed Trap is not a good word to use. I heard the same garbage about Admiral Ackbar there too lol, at least the dev was reasonable about it.
  25. balitz Method

    balitz Method Well-Known Member

    Aug 13, 2016
    Not that game. This game: Though I'm not all too sure what influence they're wanting to apply here since that's a roguelike. Maybe for eventual dungeons?

    And while I have zero desire to actually get into anything here since this topic should stay more or less on-task with subjects that relate directly to this game (you can PM me if you want to, though, I am down for a conversation in general) I will say you literally are tilting at windmills here. While you might be convinced in a completely Quixotian sense of righteousness that the word refers only to monsters others just see the windmill and it's not because they're wrong; you're actually referring to something completely different than other people are.

    Fighting over what words mean will never slay any monsters because the same one can often have completely separate histories in different places and contexts and trying to invalidate one for the sake of another or trying to paint in bad intentions where there are none will just turn everyone into a monster.
    Vergil1989 and Aristocrat like this.
  26. crazy6432

    crazy6432 Member

    Sep 30, 2015
    Saving when there is a perk point available, then loading that save deletes the perk point.
  27. Yron Vol

    Yron Vol Well-Known Member

    Aug 26, 2016
    I have yet to play but it looks very promising. When I get some free time I'll definitely give the current build a spin!
  28. Innoxia

    Innoxia Well-Known Member

    Feb 15, 2017
    Thanks! ^^
    Yeah, I played TrapQuest a little bit, but the last time I checked it out was probably a year or so ago.

    I'm trying to put in as much randomisation as I can into the game mechanics, in an effort to increase replayability. I'm going to add in some ways in which enemies might TF you if you lose to them, so that might help to introduce some more replayability as well. (I want to make losing combat a bit more punishing than it currently is.)

    Sorry, I didn't manage to get the submission corruption thing fixed in this version. I'll make sure it's done for 0.1.69!

    I'm also playing around with ways to make the clothing UI a bit more obvious during sex. I'm trying to find space in the sidebar to display both the PC and NPC clothing.

    I did a first attempt at balancing combat in this version, but there's still more to do on that front...

    (Also, I'm glad you like the way the sex scenes are handled, thanks for the kind words! ^^)

    I think I'm going to stick with the 'shared' perks for the foreseeable future, due to the points that you've raised here.
    Thanks for your detailed insight!

    This should be fixed in this latest version, thanks for the report!

    I just released a new version yesterday (v0.1.68.5), but it didn't really add much new content, as I had to spend a lot of the time this week working on the engine.
    If you decide to give it a go, I hope you like it! (And version 0.1.69 will contain some more content!)
  29. Mario

    Mario Well-Known Member

    Aug 5, 2016
    Gave it already a go and +1 for the winning and then submitting to Brax scene :)

    The corruption gain from a voluntary submission is a minor issue for now. Combat looks and feels more balanced already, very much a step in the right direction.

    Changing the system into making sex scenes available without the proper base corruption/kink by paying (gaining) corruption for it seems like a nice way to go, too. So could update.

    I also noted, that the flickering effect/bug from mousing over perks is gone :)
    Incuboss likes this.
  30. TheDarkMaster

    TheDarkMaster Well-Known Member

    Aug 28, 2015
    Be very careful about making sex scenes random or causing transformations on loss. The more mandatory kinks you have in the game and the more you mix and match kinks the harder it is for players to enjoy the game. For example, someone might like submitting but not like transformations. The player should also always know what to expect if they lose a fight with a given enemy, surprising your players is one of the worst things you can do in a porn game.
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