Your gripes with CoC II

[PuppyPrincess]

I was just saying that I'm surprised that others didn't get that certain people were going to complain that the elf wanted to do something special with her now free dick rather then get railed up the ass like normal.

Not to get embroiled too deeply in this whole conversation but I'd like to point out that "getting railed up the ass" was not normal for Ryn prior to meeting the champ and is only "normal" because she's literally unable to use her dick. Depending on her libido she might have grown to love getting railed but that doesn't mean she suddenly wouldn't want to equally use her dick if she could. I wouldn't have even considered that people would complain that Ryn would like to use her dick when it was free, there is nothing in her content that suggests she wouldn't want to use it if possible.

So to me it sounds like 'certain people' completely ignored a big part of Ryn's character/story if they reduced her to elf buttslut. Also not directed at you or anyone in particular but I do wonder if some people who expected Ryn to never use her dick overlap with those who are desperate for her to trade her D for a V.

 

[Darmelo]

Another hot set of gripes I really despise; Coc2 is repeating some of the same problems Coc1 had but isn't integrating all the good CoC1 made. So I'll list them out and explain why I feel this way and I'll point out examples where I can:
1. PC character is inconsistent from writer to writer. Coc1 had this to an extent but it wasn't so obvious it's rough because it can be avoided if they use perks to serve as checks for certain lines of dialogue and scenes. One such example is the player subbing for Evelyn should be locked behind a masochist or Subby perk so I don't stumble into getting throatfu@ked by a dickgirl (as/for a first-time player)
2. TF relevance; I have my own views on TFs getting gutted of depth but at least in Coc1 they were dynamic in various ways that aren't reliant on one aspect (combat aside). They played into sex scenes by adding new paragraphs and lines (Taunting the Sand witch after a W has a nice reference to powers and TFs and multiple sex scenes change a bit), they act as keys to content which make that content feel valuable, they were used to help characterize the NPCs because if the Forum wasn't evidence enough ppl have standards/boundaries/types that they like and they having these requirements gives them that human edge.
3. There are a lot more scenarios that allow for roleplay in Coc1 while you're more on a ride in Coc2 but with better quest design, example favor of Coc1 with the event when at the demon factory there are many reasons you can use to justify either decision on either side of the Pure/Corrupt argument. While in Coc2 there really is no reason to full-on hate or even Rival Kas, She not only saves you and Cait but ASK's IF you want to fuck, she's just another superpower looking to establish themselves in a similar way to the other powers in the Marshes have done.

1. The pc was inconsistent as hell in CoC1, as it still is to a degree in CoC2, yes. This comes with the territory when there's multiple writers, multiple different types of content, and multiple "personalities" for the pc. Adding perks here and there to gate content will do little but make it harder to access said content, and other content you may be interested in but don't know what perks you'd need. Not to mention the absolute mess of coding and things to pay attention to it'd add, you'd need a spreadsheet to be able to find all the content that'd need different tags. And the "issue" of different human beings writing the content is still there.
2. TF relevance. If you aren't noticing TFs adding and changing stuff in scenes then I don't know what to tell ya. I may agree they're not always as extreme as in CoC1, but it's most definitely there.
3. The roleplay specifically, I suppose I see what you mean, but also consider that fewer overall options (if indeed that is the case, it's been awhile since CoC1 for me) make for more time to put proper quality into the ones we do get. And as for justifying being Pure/corrupt, and the whole "why stop Kas"... Respectfully, have you... actually been reading the story and dialogue?

 

[valk42]

Tbh I lean towards the "give her a pussy" crowd but if there is one person I'd say is worth it would be Hethia, tho they have to tackle the PC shipping a Tsun with a DereDere

good choice actually but just the tits and hips nearly broke ryn mechanically so no pusspuss ever, the end

 

[Animalistic]

I just did not expect my relationship with Ryn only to be devalued to "Will you allow her to fuck you or not?"

It makes all her prior interactions feel cheap, reduces her supposed love for the champion to the same level of depth a guy has for their onahole and it is not even consistent in universe since, after just that one divergence, you can make Ryn be just your personal bottom. It does not even fully commit to the concept that "it is bottom or bust" considering that champion does not even need to be penetrated for her to be happy apparently. Just for them to be present which, ey, if you are into, go for it.

In the end, her want to use it to me never correlated to her love for us. Same as Arona. This whole situation devalues her whole romantic arc and makes Aronas (which had a lesser build up) feel more welcoming and inclusive.

 

[Melancholy Man]

Vag was vetoed on the simple basis that Ryn already is nearly broken code-wise with her existing transform parsers and stuff, it would just be too much. Not to mention all of the scenes that need to be drastically rewritten..

Yeah, I absolutely get this aspect so I'm not going to grind about it too much, it's a scoff on what is the gold standard for companions in this game.

she's your girl

Yes I too share my girl with my friends and the city, I like but let's be real get off it, man

even when she has similar insane needs as Brienne does

differences are in the detail bro, finish the comparison bro

 

[Revenant]

Sigh The problem is not the scenes where you bottom for her, but that interactions are gated behind it, people to this day complain about Kiyoko and with your guys logic, just go get a dick and fuck her in the name of love since it's just a little concession you have to do for her to love you.

Other characters like mentioned before don't deny you of relationship development or emotional talk if you don't let them fuck you(unless they are presented like that from the very beginning), even though you know since day 1 they have a dick and like to use it yet you choose not to let them fuck you with their dick like Kas and Arona to give some examples.

Just because some of you have no problem getting dicked, enjoy it or been waiting for it since the start does not mean everyone should just accep it when Ryn was not presented as someone whose emotional development was dependent on whether she fucks our ass or not.

To point this out, I always knew Ryn would get scenes where you bottom and I'm ok with that since all I had to do was what I do with every other scene I don't particulary like from any character, I ignore it's existence and carry on with those I do enjoy.

 

[Melancholy Man]

1. The pc was inconsistent as hell in CoC1, as it still is to a degree in CoC2, yes. This comes with the territory when there's multiple writers, multiple different types of content, and multiple "personalities" for the pc. Adding perks here and there to gate content will do little but make it harder to access said content, and other content you may be interested in but don't know what perks you'd need. Not to mention the absolute mess of coding and things to pay attention to it'd add, you'd need a spreadsheet to be able to find all the content that'd need different tags. And the "issue" of different human beings writing the content is still there.

There was little inconsistency character-wise, so you'd have to name an example for me. I think there should be a bit more structure to handling the writers, it seems from the outside looking in freeform and then they edit the pieces to fit. It would require the programmer and director to be meticulous but that's better than just having everything thrown about, as they did with the first, and with some time maybe when they can see the end in sight they run over the whole game to iron out the flaws.

2. TF relevance. If you aren't noticing TFs adding and changing stuff in scenes then I don't know what to tell ya. I may agree they're not always as extreme as in CoC1, but it's most definitely there.

you gotta give me some examples where content is added, not the copy-paste surface-level acknowledgments but actual content. I gave you some and I can give you more because Coc1 has a lot of them.

3. The roleplay specifically, I suppose I see what you mean, but also consider that fewer overall options (if indeed that is the case, it's been awhile since CoC1 for me) make for more time to put proper quality into the ones we do get. And as for justifying being Pure/corrupt, and the whole "why stop Kas"... Respectfully, have you... actually been reading the story and dialogue?

Explain, what you mean.

 

[PuppyPrincess]

Sigh The problem is not the scenes where you bottom for her, but that interactions are gated behind it, people to this day complain about Kiyoko and with your guys logic, just go get a dick and fuck her in the name of love since it's just a little concession you have to do for her to love you.

Sliiiiight distinction in that you specifically need a dick/magic-dick for Kiyoko so it requires you to actively have specific equipment, The equivalent logic with Ryn would be her requiring the champ to have a vagina/magic vagina and I'm pretty sure she's happy to bone your butt =P

Ryn already has the equipment, was always going to be able to use it eventually & doesn't require the champ to alter themselves physicially to access the content.

Having said all that, I totally get some people don't like penetration for w/e reason.

 

[Resawar]

Not to get embroiled too deeply in this whole conversation but I'd like to point out that "getting railed up the ass" was not normal for Ryn prior to meeting the champ and is only "normal" because she's literally unable to use her dick. Depending on her libido she might have grown to love getting railed but that doesn't mean she suddenly wouldn't want to equally use her dick if she could. I wouldn't have even considered that people would complain that Ryn would like to use her dick when it was free, there is nothing in her content that suggests she wouldn't want to use it if possible.

So to me it sounds like 'certain people' completely ignored a big part of Ryn's character/story if they reduced her to elf buttslut. Also not directed at you or anyone in particular but I do wonder if some people who expected Ryn to never use her dick overlap with those who are desperate for her to trade her D for a V.

I would like to say I meant normal interaction for a good 70%ish of the player base which involve using her ass as accessed from her sex menu in a noncorrupt fashion.

Though I would like to argue that what ever the champ does to her is her new normal. Even if you blame her libido as if she can't grow naturally to enjoy more things such as taking it up the bum, she seems to just enjoy having the champ be with her to do things. If we are talking her normal prior to meeting the champ I could hardly call any of that conductive to a "normal" life.

 

[Revenant]

Sliiiiight distinction in that you specifically need a dick/magic-dick for Kiyoko so it requires you to actively have specific equipment, The equivalent logic with Ryn would be her requiring the champ to have a vagina/magic vagina and I'm pretty sure she's happy to bone your butt =P

Ryn already has the equipment, was always going to be able to use it eventually & doesn't require the champ to alter themselves physicially to access the content.

Having said all that, I totally get some people don't like penetration for w/e reason.

They are the same because they have relationship interactions gated behind choices that make some uncomfortable to take, some not and others be uncomfortable of the choice but go trough it anyway in some way for the character to accept them.

If you want to nitpick next you are going to tell me they are not the same because Ryn is a half sex frost elf and Kiyoko a female kitsune.

 

[Tide Hunter]

While in Coc2 there really is no reason to full-on hate or even Rival Kas, She not only saves you and Cait but ASK's IF you want to fuck, she's just another superpower looking to establish themselves in a similar way to the other powers in the Marshes have done.

Kas literally points at you and declares that she's going to steal your soul, and the only reason why she hasn't done it already is because she wants us to get stronger to make the soul more juicy and useful for her.

 

[Melancholy Man]

I never said she was innocent. I said there's no point in hating her or rivalry; Her declaring that is a hostile move but that doesn't mean death is onsight. She's civilized and diplomatic. She's a gangster moving into new territory; that doesn't justify her actions but we understand the motive and nature of her actions.

 

[PuppyPrincess]

They are the same because they have relationship interactions gated behind choices that make some uncomfortable to take, some not and others be uncomfortable of the choice but go trough it anyway in some way for the character to accept them.

If you want to nitpick next you are going to tell me they are not the same because Ryn is a half sex frost elf and Kiyoko a female kitsune.

Personally I think there's a distinction between a requirement of having specific physical characteristics (having specific equipment) and simply allowing an act (penetration) regardless of physical equipment but that's just me.

And I'm not going to bother with getting into an argument if we're going straight into "Well next you're going to tell me". It's pointless and we won't get anywhere so have a good day/night.

I would like to say I meant normal interaction for a good 70%ish of the player base which involve using her ass as accessed from her sex menu in a noncorrupt fashion.

Though I would like to argue that what ever the champ does to her is her new normal. Even if you blame her libido as if she can't grow naturally to enjoy more things such as taking it up the bum, she seems to just enjoy having the champ be with her to do things. If we are talking her normal prior to meeting the champ I could hardly call any of that conductive to a "normal" life.

Once we get into 'guestimating' player base and interactions with content I think we'll be at an impasse xD.

My point around the normal stuff is that Ryn's own dialogue tells us she never had an issue with her dick so players deciding she's only there for buttstuff is on them and I'm surprised people are shocked/caught of guard/against her wanting to use her dick, even in a one-off event, if they like her character.

I suppose I personally find it odd that people can be so invested in Ryn's character/romance that they're bothered by her wanting to use her dick but also would rather not interact with a part of her body that she's always had.

Anyway that's my two cents on the general topic.

 

[Melancholy Man]

I suppose I personally find it odd that people can be so invested in Ryn's character/romance that they're bothered by her wanting to use her dick but also would rather not interact with a part of her body that she's always had.

Let's acknowledge one fact, the majority of the player are men or dick-havers, she comes across as very feminine throughout her dialogue and rarely shows interest outside of the PC other than El and Hethia. Yes, it comes out of left field to have someone you'd usually be dicking down to just say "hey I wanna fu$k in the a$$", context matters but it really should've been foreshadowed.

 

[Ossa]

I'd like to think it was probably foreshadowed by the fact that Ryn had never had buttsex before, is doing so only because it's her sole means of getting off regardless of how much she's grown to like it, and her primary equipment remains, as it ever was, her dick.

 

[Animalistic]

Personally I think there's a distinction between a requirement of having specific physical characteristics (having specific equipment) and simply allowing an act (penetration) regardless of physical equipment but that's just me.

And I'm not going to bother with getting into an argument if we're going straight into "Well next you're going to tell me". It's pointless and we won't get anywhere so have a good day/night.

Once we get into 'guestimating' player base and interactions with content I think we'll be at an impasse xD.

My point around the normal stuff is that Ryn's own dialogue tells us she never had an issue with her dick so players deciding she's only there for buttstuff is on them and I'm surprised people are shocked/caught of guard/against her wanting to use her dick, even in a one-off event, if they like her character.

I suppose I personally find it odd that people can be so invested in Ryn's character/romance that they're bothered by her wanting to use her dick but also would rather not interact with a part of her body that she's always had.

Anyway that's my two cents on the general topic.

How would you feel if the requirement for Ryn to consider the champ her lover was that you need to drill her butt?

You could buy her gifts, coddle her up in your bed and take her on lovely dates, but all that her apperent love comes down to is if you poke her butt or not? Would you still say that she loves the female/cboys champ then? After all, her Bunns are also part of her.

I would personally find it just as wrong.

Also, I do have a problem with how people are putting down one form of sexual pleasure for another. Pitching and receiving are equally as valid form of lovemaking and ways for oneself to recieve stimuly. I don't think that Ryn herself would consider one more pleasurable/"proper" then the other.

 

[Kesil]

And here I am, not liking to equate sex acts with powerplay and wondering if anal is the equivalent for males of having large penises up a vaginal canal, whether it's rooted as a gay thing to do or whether it's just yet another case of refusing player agency

 

[MarcoPolo121]

Gonna be another circular argument I see. Welp, I'm checking out.

 

[Tide Hunter]

I never said she was innocent. I said there's no point in hating her or rivalry; Her declaring that is a hostile move but that doesn't mean death is onsight. She's civilized and diplomatic. She's a gangster moving into new territory; that doesn't justify her actions but we understand the motive and nature of her actions.

Personally, I think that if someone kicked down your door and declared she was going to lobotomize you, but only after lobotomizing a bunch of other people because she thinks the world would be more beautiful if everybody had chunks of their brain missing, and then she fucks off for a while, I'd find her to be worthy of hatred or hostility. Particularly if the next time we (definitively) see her is when we come across somebody she's strung up in a tree with the intention of later lobotomizing, who's fleeing from a group because the lobotomize has been grooming that community for a mass lobotomy session.

 

[Resawar]

Sounds like some crazy big mountain experiment I mean cult, better get rid of the Dr.'s I mean Demon to make sure it does not escape into the wasteland I mean Rest of Savarra.

 

[Acharehnus]

I feel like the Ryn thing is going in circles to where my post of "Sometimes you're gonna miss a scene or two if you want nothing to do with a characters genitals" is relevant again. That's the way the games always been...and trying to argue Ryns dick and her desire to use it come out of no where is so weird I don't even know how to address it, ya'll must have been playing a different game where fundamental facts about the character were different.

But I also think it's worth keeping in mind besides the original poster with an issue, neither of you have even seen said scenes. Which feels like it might be crucial to the discussion to me.

Oh, good timing. It just went public. Remember mirror stance if you've got it. Except for the final encounter which i don't think has anything for it...and you'll need that slot free.

 

[Melancholy Man]

Personally, I think that if someone kicked down your door and declared she was going to lobotomize you, but only after lobotomizing a bunch of other people because she thinks the world would be more beautiful if everybody had chunks of their brain missing, and then she fucks off for a while, I'd find her to be worthy of hatred or hostility. Particularly if the next time we (definitively) see her is when we come across somebody she's strung up in a tree with the intention of later lobotomizing, who's fleeing from a group because the lobotomize has been grooming that community for a mass lobotomy session.

exaggerating a bit but I see you, not going to split hairs but she was nice about it, can be a calm and reasonable person at least with the PC and ppl that don't just fawn over her. You are right though she's not too deep as a villain; like, why are you doing this? What is her worldview? What is her philosophy behind this degeneracy? Why does she think deserves to be 'King of the hill'?

 

[Melancholy Man]

I'd like to think it was probably foreshadowed by the fact that Ryn had never had buttsex before, is doing so only because it's her sole means of getting off regardless of how much she's grown to like it, and her primary equipment remains, as it ever was, her dick.

didn't her sister sexually torture her with toys?

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

Kas literally points at you and declares that she's going to steal your soul, and the only reason why she hasn't done it already is because she wants us to get stronger to make the soul more juicy and useful for her.

Perhaps it's hypocritical of me given how much headcanon I admit to putting into a playthrough, but this right here always gets me wondering what game everyone else was playing when the genuine Kas romance crusading crops up. This scene is mandatory and right at the start, you can't really miss it.

And her threat here is backed up by her popping up in several early bad ends, treating champ like garbage and then tossing them away if they fail in the quest too soon(yes yes noncanon, it is certainly a term). She starts out with absolutely rotten intentions for you and never really drops them, affection just begins to crop up alongside it. And then there's the fact that she deals out fates that many would consider are worse than death like they're candy. If you like her in all her twisted glory that's one thing, I will always preach that people are free to like what they like, but ethically speaking she is an absolutely abhorrent individual no matter how people want to try and spin it.

Sure you can ignore the worst bits with headcanon if you want, but you should also recognize that they are there in the story proper.

 

[Ria Brew]

People simp for villains all the time, just this time we can actually follow through with it. That and fantasy indulgence of submitting yourself to the villain. It's a thing and has nothing to do with the morality of it. In fact, I'm certain for some, the moral "debatability" of it is what makes it hot.

 

[Melancholy Man]

I'm not a Kas simp, she's evil but she isn't too dissimilar from how the other superpowers in that world got their power, so fair play. I like a good villain, they can make a 20hr game feel like a 10hr adventure and make movies into classics.

Edit: She's charming too, I like how she has a classy way of talking but uses 4chan-styled disses, its like talking to a rule 63 sexed-up version of Trump.

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

People simp for villains all the time, just this time we can actually follow through with it. That and fantasy indulgence of submitting yourself to the villain. It's a thing and has nothing to do with the morality of it. In fact, I'm certain for some, the moral "debatability" of it is what makes it hot.

Like I said, wanting to get with the villain isn't something I have a problem with, people can like what they like. It was a large portion of my previous post.

My problem is when people start actually denying the existence of the more morally repugnant bits to both themselves and whomever they're talking to in order to try and bend a character more to their liking. If you like to do the big naughty, just say you like to do the big naughty.

No, she's evil but she isn't too dissimilar from how the other superpowers in that world got their power, so fair play

Spoiler

Or one can just take the stance that they're all bastards, but the seven were completely lacking the ability to comprehend things like human empathy until they absorbed enough soulsoup to become what they are now, whereas Kas at the very least understands such concepts and plays at valuing them enough to try and mime them with her adopted children.

She's more mentally put together than most other demons, who are already leagues better off in terms of human mindsets than actual eldritch goop from beyond the physical plane.

 

[ForeverLurker]

wow the ryn stuff really blew up huh? Me Im not i to getting penetrated hell if I lose I just skip over it, but I do love ryn as a character so we'll see how it works.

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

wow the ryn stuff really blew up huh? Me Im not i to penetration hell if I lose I just skip over it, but I do love ryn as a character so we'll see how it works.

Mad props for you willing to at least give it a shot, even if it's not exactly to your liking.

 

[Tide Hunter]

exaggerating a bit but I see you, not going to split hairs but she was nice about it, can be a calm and reasonable person at least with the PC and ppl that don't just fawn over her. You are right though she's not too deep as a villain; like, why are you doing this? What is her worldview? What is her philosophy behind this degeneracy? Why does she think deserves to be 'King of the hill'?

Oh, no, I specifically chose that analogy to be as close as possible to Kas. Initially my analogy was about a liver thief, who proclaims that she'll steal your liver and who steals other people's livers, but I realized that the soul extraction is essentially just a slightly sexier lobotomy, in that it massively changes your mental state and emotional capabilities.

I'm not a Kas simp, she's evil but she isn't too dissimilar from how the other superpowers in that world got their power, so fair play. I like a good villain, they can make a 20hr game feel like a 10hr adventure and make movies into classics.

Edit: She's charming too, I like how she has a classy way of talking but uses 4chan-styled disses, its like talking to a rule 63 sexed-up version of Trump.

I should note that I am a Kas simp. It is a struggle for me to make a playthrough where I don't fall straight into the Romance route at every possible opportunity. I find her to be really hot. That said, I see her as incredibly evil and someone worthy of resisting and fighting against. I just... have a type.