Your gripes with CoC II

[Tide Hunter]

Why does time spent per day have any meaning to you? The day counter doesn't matter in-game except as a way for the player to tell how much time has elapsed between events (e.g. between conception and birth). You're not racing the clock. If you spend the canonical two or three months on a single save, that's fine. If you spend four hundred years in-game, that's also fine. This feels like a you problem, not a gameplay problem.

I don't know why, I just obsess over optimizing it, and I hate doing it, but I can't not do it. It's just a combination of it seeming like a waste of in-game time with a compulsion to do it because every single character I make will only release Kiyoko if she has nine tails, and I feel the need to reach that in the minimum number of in-game days, so I play the game but always need to sleep each night before 6 so that my characters can do another interaction.

Never underestimate the power of your average person's mind goblins. They can and will dump all over their owners' fun unless countered by the devs' design choices.

Yeah, pretty much. The feeling sucks.

 

[wery12345]

I dont really see the worth in waiting for 9 tails, even if theres a special version of the scene ill never see. Also I dont try to optimize days after I accidently had 5 events coincide and lose 5 days in a row.

 

[Alypia]

I don't know why, I just obsess over optimizing it, and I hate doing it, but I can't not do it. It's just a combination of it seeming like a waste of in-game time with a compulsion to do it because every single character I make will only release Kiyoko if she has nine tails, and I feel the need to reach that in the minimum number of in-game days, so I play the game but always need to sleep each night before 6 so that my characters can do another interaction.

Yeah, pretty much. The feeling sucks.

That's unfortunate. The mind goblins are real. I've got a few of my own, like how I make sure I have 10K EC before beating the Alraune so I can get a magicock straight off and use it for Ryn's confession. Dumb, but that's what I force myself to do.

 

[Animalistic]

That's unfortunate. The mind goblins are real. I've got a few of my own, like how I make sure I have 10K EC before beating the Alraune so I can get a magicock straight off and use it for Ryn's confession. Dumb, but that's what I force myself to do.

Ah yeah, there are only scenes where player related scenes for players with a dick in Ryns introduction. Heh, such a turn of events has this last year been.

 

[Animalistic]

Speaking of Ryn, I hope we do not get punished for going into her low confidence route. Either by being locked out of her marriage or being forced to watch her become a demon. Since I am getting pretty worrisome signals from all recent Ryn talk.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

Speaking of Ryn, I hope we do not get punished for going into her low confidence route. Either by being locked out of her marriage or being forced to watch her become a demon. Since I am getting pretty worrisome signals from all recent Ryn talk.

That actually makes me wonder what a low confidence succubus Ryn would be like.

"P-please give me your immortal soul, champ-kun UwU."

 

[wery12345]

I mean your keeping her in low confidence you shouldnt get to still be a happy go lucky champ with her, it would make sense low confidence is the corruption path.

 

[WolframL]

I like going with the Cait option for Ryn's confession for almost all my runs, trust the experts and all that. There's plenty of time to worship the Royal Ring once she's calmed down. That said, it really would be nice to get one more scene there for Champs who either don't have a penis/ghostlight or who just don't want to use it at that point for whatever reason, letting us give Ryn some direct care.

Speaking of Ryn, I hope we do not get punished for going into her low confidence route. Either by being locked out of her marriage or being forced to watch her become a demon. Since I am getting pretty worrisome signals from all recent Ryn talk.

Based on the signals we're getting, I suspect that Ryn's demonification would require not only low Confidence but that you deliberately dick her over with the cage. For example, imagine that you're able to obtain it but are given a choice to 'lose' it in a way that can't be proven to be deliberate. That would be an asshole thing to do but would keep her in her existing state, while an alternate option would be to very obviously tell Ryn you're not going to free her and that is what pushes her over the edge.

Or possibly the decision gets pushed back a step and you have low-Confidence, Ryn's caged and some plot event happens where you can choose to throw her to Kasyrra or some other demon and that's what causes her to go demon herself.

None of this is definite of course but I don't think it's likely that it's going to be a straight case of 'If Confidence >X at point Y, then Demon Ryn'.

That actually makes me wonder what a low confidence succubus Ryn would be like.

On the assumption that my wild-ass guessing theory about how the transformation would go down is even remotely accurate, I'm guessing that it won't matter much because she's going to be quite put out at the Champ and her third action (after shapeshifting out of the cage and dealing with the wooziness from having blood diverted south for the first time in forever) is going to be to test out her new body by fucking the Champ sideways.

After that point.... eh, I'm not sure really.

 

[wery12345]

Yeah I 100% expect if you want low confidence Ryn your gonna have to expect every interaction they add for it to be teetering on the edge of corruption/demonization. Cause this is the one case where I cant see why people want her like that, even I see the merit in wanting the walking symbol of fuck that is Kas.(even though its a route i'll never go down so seeing that new extra tile above near the orc camp is kinda just an annoyance, hope we get the ability to destory it to piss off Kas)

 

[Alypia]

Since I am getting pretty worrisome signals from all recent Ryn talk.

Forum talk is just talk.

It's worth pointing out that Ryn already has corrupt content: high Libido, low Confidence. Does that make a demonhood path for her less likely? More likely? No effect?

 

[Animalistic]

Forum talk is just talk.

It's worth pointing out that Ryn already has corrupt content: high Libido, low Confidence. Does that make a demonhood path for her less likely? More likely? No effect?

Since I have not recently checked, how is low confidence high libido more corrupt thab other 2 lowcon routes? I mean, I could understand why low low can be seen as neutral. Since from games perspective, that can just mean you have not interacted with her. But what about low con- mid libido?

 

[WolframL]

Ryn's Libido doesn't have the same range of parsers as her Confidence, instead it seems like checks for it take the form of [etheryn.libido.X] where X is whatever threshold the writer wants to use. 31+ seems to be the threshold for 'mid' Libido for lack of a better term (that's when her Frost Hound/Camp interactions visibly change) but there are some checks for 50+ and then 70 and 75 seem to be considered 'high' as there are checks for those values as well in her design doc.

The reason that low-Con high-Libido Ryn is a sort of 'corrupt' path is that in that state she's got no self-esteem, will do anything the Champ tells her to and starts to think that she deserves whatever Alissa did/the Champ does to her. And you have to push her into that because her starting Libido is, like, 10 or so and you need to make her do things she obviously doesn't want to do in order to get her there and act in a way that doesn't show any consideration for her feelings or enjoyment of the sex.

 

[Burnerbro]

The reason that low-Con high-Libido Ryn is a sort of 'corrupt' path is that in that state she's got no self-esteem, will do anything the Champ tells her to and starts to think that she deserves whatever Alissa did/the Champ does to her. And you have to push her into that because her starting Libido is, like, 10 or so and you need to make her do things she obviously doesn't want to do in order to get her there and act in a way that doesn't show any consideration for her feelings or enjoyment of the sex.

This makes me wonder how much being horny and subby leads to a person succumbing to the corruption more easily than someone who is a domineering and strong-willed. The design doc states explicitly that we shouldn't make such assumptions, but I can't see how those traits can not make the character in question more succeptible to the influence of people who actively seek to corrupt him. In extreme cases like high libido/low confidence Ryn it outright leads to the character being far less grounded in their understanding of their self and adamant about any moral values they may hold, which greases the slippery slope towards demonhood very effectively.

The current sleep system is an attempt to combine a certain amount of verisimilitude (meaningful difference between night and day, characters outside the Champion's party seem to have their own lives and schedules independent of the Champion, sleeping is actually good for you, sleeping around the normal times is good for you) with concessions to a certain level of player convenience (the player is not forced to go to sleep save to level up, the player can stay up late before going to bed) and writing (sleeping results in a consistent wakeup time).

I very much appreciate you being so polite and helpful, laying out clearly the points you bring up. However IMO those aren't airtight or even very compelling arguments for the current system. Right now the ideas of a distinct day/night cycle and NPC schedules get reinforced very unevenly, with even hub NPCs having some major exceptions among them (Aurera and Claire in Hawkthorne and no encounters in the field caring one iota about what time of day it is. So if those are imortant considerations for the devs as long as it doesn't inconvenience the player in major ways, I think those inconsistencies should be tidied up. More importantly, I don't see how the player being able to sleep at random hours will get in the way of creating a believable enough illusion of a non-static, lived in world with NPCs sticking to their believable schedules. Which leaves only writer convenience, and while it is always a worthwhile consideration, I'm not convinced that it trumps extra player convenience in this particular case.

I'm glad that you agree with the coplaints against the current implementation of masturbation in the game. Hopefully it will get looked at again at some point.

 

[Savin]

This makes me wonder how much being horny and subby leads to a person succumbing to the corruption more easily than someone who is a domineering and strong-willed.

Alissa turned into a demon long before Ryn, just sayin'

 

[SmithEK]

how come Cait who has no cock nor hardlight at the time can help Ryn when PC who doesn't have a cock can't?

 

[Lone Wolf115]

Alissa turned into a demon long before Ryn, just sayin'

Imps, Demons, Dragon generals, dosen't matter to me what I kill let them come.
If you have played Skyrim you will get it.

 

[Savin]

Sexual chakras.

 

[Burnerbro]

Alissa turned into a demon long before Ryn, just sayin'

But would have that been the case if she didn't manage to run away? I don't see why a combination of magic and continued coercion wouldn't have allowed Alissa to crack poor Ryn and made her a demon right alongside her own transformation - provided she wouldn't want to keep Ryn around as a mortal pet.

how come Cait who has no cock nor hardlight at the time can help Ryn when PC who doesn't have a cock can't?

She knows some next level tantric techniques - and has a very talented tail. Speaking of which, the current lack of scenes where PC can use their sufficiently thick and nimble tail in that way is a bummer.

Edit: ninjad by the devman.

 

[Animalistic]

Savin is saying that she was a demom, as in evil person, long before Kas showed up. Our big bad was just there to push former queen to undertake her much needed makeover for her truly to revel in it without any preconceptions of acting like royalty.

 

[SmithEK]

Sometimes I hate Cait.

 

[Raginmund]

The sleep buffs start at wakeup (0800ish) and go for 12 hours (until 2000, a few hours after most shopkeeps are closed). They basically extend for the full length of an actual working day, and then some. You can find more than one or two encounters in that time. You can find a lot of encounters in that time. The length of the sleep buffs isn't the problem here.

A perfectly normal CoC2 day for the Champion can start with waking up, then a dozen hours of Normal Adventurer Stuff, whatever that is to you: selling off inventory, buying other inventory, beating up mooks, sexing mooks, doing quests, etc. Then, in the evening, after the sleep buffs wear off, you have some time to do any companion sex scenes you want, if any, before going to bed and waking up again, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, for more of the same. That...feels like a fairly reasonable use of a day to me. It's not mandatory, but nothing in there sounds like a waste of time or a poorly placed event.

You're not "expected" to do anything. The sleep buffs are an entirely optional part of the experience. So are sleep-withs, dreams, Kiyoko, and so on. If you want to go around adventuring and never sleep save when you level up, that is perfectly fine. If you prefer having the RP, the sleep-with scenes, the buffs, or any other aspect of the sleep-related content, then that is also perfectly fine. And if you want to wait until five in the morning to go to sleep rather than doing it at nine at night, that's also fine.

The current sleep system is an attempt to combine a certain amount of verisimilitude (meaningful difference between night and day, characters outside the Champion's party seem to have their own lives and schedules independent of the Champion, sleeping is actually good for you, sleeping around the normal times is good for you) with concessions to a certain level of player convenience (the player is not forced to go to sleep save to level up, the player can stay up late before going to bed) and writing (sleeping results in a consistent wakeup time).

Why does time spent per day have any meaning to you? The day counter doesn't matter in-game except as a way for the player to tell how much time has elapsed between events (e.g. between conception and birth). You're not racing the clock. If you spend the canonical two or three months on a single save, that's fine. If you spend four hundred years in-game, that's also fine. This feels like a you problem, not a gameplay problem.

Hmm sorry to reply late to this, but is there a specific reason why in your post the training issue wasn't addressed? It seems as though only specific points were addressed.
The training issue in question, as seen here:

To me, it seems that CoC2's sleep wants to be CoC's sleep, but the game it is built into is much more like TiTS. Even ignoring all the weirdness with what makes the champ autosleep (The trainings are extremely fucked, as I said two pages ago, and I'm amazed that masturbation still hasn't been changed to allow the champ to stay awake after flicking their nipples or stroking their cock), we can see why I say that CoC2 wants to have CoC's sleep: The first and most obvious is that it has set times. You will always wake up at 8 (well, the actual time you wake up seems to be randomized to be between and including 8 and 8:14), and if you go to sleep or masturbate after 6 you instead wake up 26 hours later at the 8 am the next day.

Regardless, I understand that the current implementation of the sleep function has it's intended use, but it also feels a bit weird in certain instances to force the PC to sleep through specific events (i.e. training, masturbation etc). If it's meant to feel as an optional thing that can be done for specific purposes (buffs, level ups etc) then it should theoretically remain consistent as such. By having forced instances of sleep it then feels as such, forced - therefore not being consistent with the "optional" attitude regarding it.

Time may not be canon within the game's scope itself, but dismissing others' view of "wasted" time as not particularly relevant due to it not being canon doesn't make sense to me (in my opinion). If one was to not want to sleep at all (bar level ups) then that should also be theoretically possible - however it isn't due to the nature of which training is done - as well as other such specific events, such as sexing Kiyoko once she has been freed from the Astral Plane or sexing Atugia in her "Romance" sex scene (which is also seemingly currently bugged).
That would then make it rather challenging from a player perspective to truly identify the "canonized" time only being a few months, if specific occurrences force time advancement in a manner which doesn't necessarily reflect it's "optional" nature. Meta understanding of the game and its time scope might be one thing, but using that in place to explain away specific interactions that don't seem to reflect that in-game may not always be relevant (nor make sense, in my opinion).

To further expand what I mean in the above passage, at the moment I could pick a specific Class and get enough XP and EC (for level ups and gear) to reach the maximum level cap within around 7 - 9 days depending. However, the actual level up process would take 5 definitive days (as of level 6), not to mention the learning of additional Class related Powers (which would actually result in around 14+ additional "wasted" days due to the seemingly buggy nature of the post training sleep sessions). This detracts from the optional nature of said sleep function, as it's not entirely optional when it comes to Powers relating to ones class, unless one likes to be challenged on that front (by not having all the Powers relating to their Class).
The level ups are understandable in of itself, as it's consistent with other such games, but the nature of forcing the advancement of time in order to "learn" something, when time is not particularly "canon" seems a bit weird (in my opinion). Like it's only done so to appease some sense of reality, when time advancing in of itself is apparently of no consequence. That would lead me to ask, then what's the point of doing so in the first place? If it's to be "optional" to sleep (aside from level ups) then why force sleep instances via specific events / interactions? Would that then be defended by saying that the instances of forced sleep are entirely "optional" in of themselves?

 

[Forget Me Knot]

Sometimes I hate Cait.

Why is that if I may ask?

 

[SmithEK]

Why is that if I may ask?

Cait gets away with shagging Lusamine (who doesn't shag pure females) and she gets to help Ryn, I don't care if she's a whore, as long as our champs have fingers there's no reason why pure female PCs couldn't help the Elf..

 

[Lone Wolf115]

Cait gets away with shagging Lusamine (who doesn't shag pure females) and she gets to help Ryn, I don't care if she's a whore, as long as our champs have fingers there's no reason why pure female PCs couldn't help the Elf..

Well Cait is just proving a point and Lusamine was insulting her faith so. I agree about pure PCs.

 

[SmithEK]

Well Cait is just proving a point and Lusamine was insulting her faith so. I agree about pure PCs.

Don't matter, Cait is petty too, she insults those like the shrine sisters.. I mean come on she spreads her legs because of some faith for some dude.. I too would laugh in her face. Apparently marriage for Cait might happen, I for one will steer clear of that.

 

[Alypia]

Hmm sorry to reply late to this, but is there a specific reason why in your post the training issue wasn't addressed? It seems as though only specific points were addressed.
The training issue in question, as seen here:

Presumably the same reason why everybody else doesn't devote specific discussion to every individual point in a post to which they respond. You can discuss the overall nature of a claim without necessarily engaging each individual point in detail. Training falls under the same overarching point that I was making earlier: it is a thing that takes time, not in order to impose a cost in days (because days are not a finite resource to spend, so there is no real cost) but to impute a sense that "a thing takes time".

That would lead me to ask, then what's the point of doing so in the first place? If it's to be "optional" to sleep (aside from level ups) then why force sleep instances via specific events / interactions? Would that then be defended by saying that the instances of forced sleep are entirely "optional" in of themselves?

Like I said, I don't think masturbation should force sleep, because that can waste the player's time IRL (as distinct from a cost in days): an action taken to relieve arousal can result in not actually relieving arousal. I don't see the same problem with training sometimes forcing sleep, because it doesn't waste the player's time. Seems fairly straightforward.

 

[Burnerbro]

Don't matter, Cait is petty too, she insults those like the shrine sisters.. I mean come on she spreads her legs because of some faith for some dude.. I too would laugh in her face. Apparently marriage for Cait might happen, I for one will steer clear of that.

FWIW, I think both the scene of her being extra pushy with Lusamine and her catfight with Miko and Mai are intended as mostly humorous and had the writers steer a bit past the mark with her characterisation. Though since the content got in, the devs likely don't agree with the second part of my assessment, or don't consider it a major issue.

In any case, even at her worst Cait still brings a lot of positivity, curiosity and empathy to the table. She is the Heart of our merry band of misfits and is shown to stick by the Champ no matter what. That ought to count for something. On the other hand marrying a genuine polyamorist is a tough ask, and I also can't get with the idea even in games.

 

[wery12345]

Some part of me wonders if people just want an excuse to hate the entire reason the PC is even doing this stuff/became what they are. Because Cait is the least extreme out of the entire band of misfits.

 

[Animalistic]

Some part of me wonders if people just want an excuse to hate the entire reason the PC is even doing this stuff/became what they are. Because Cait is the least extreme out of the entire band of misfits.

Can you elaborate what you mean by that? I feel like, while champion did help Cait, the reason for why they are on this quest has more to do with Kas then has to do with cait. She just jumpstartex this whole thing. She is the start-up engine, not the wheel.

Anf eveb if she was, why would people hate her for that?

 

[mikethor007]

She is the Heart of our merry band of misfits and is shown to stick by the Champ no matter what. That ought to count for something.

Indeed she is VERY loyal. But not exactly the heart of our band of misfits... I mean... my band of misfits. Because ever since I had her in the party for Atani's marriage, I've replaced her with Etheryn.

On the other hand marrying a genuine polyamorist is a tough ask, and I also can't get with the idea even in games.

Marry Cait? But...why? Aside from the content that is likely planned for such marriage (I've seen people commenting on discord of a slut wife marriage where instead of "congratulate the bride" there is "fuck the bride"), that is. Feels more like something one would do while smashed in Vegas.