okay okay, i apologize my lieges, i just didnt think that the intellectual caste of this here forums was of such high pedigree such as yousguys
Your Gripes With CoC2
- Thread starter Savin
- Start date
I'd rather have them around over people who refuse to wrap their head around the battle system. (Not that I don't sympathize with the latter. Solving a math problem to get a piece of ass does require mind shifting.) Fresh perspectives who take the character/party building seriously also take the story seriously too. They don't usually shut their brain off around specific parts.
I suspect Garret was planned to be something like that. He went over like a lead balloon by the audience, so he's rather underdeveloped as a result.
Eh. All the demonic corruption amounts to is a mystical plague outbreak, of which most of those affected, Karyrra included, are just victims thereof. Functionally all what the setting calls a "soul" is, is your spiritual liver that regulates you positive/negative energy. With the dark magic of the corruption pushing one towards negative in it's absence. The more traditional "soul=your mind/identity" is rather what the setting seems to call Ki, and is what Kiyoko had trapped so long.
Given their nature, demons aren't all that much different then stuff like spirits from setting like Dragon Age or Avatar, only they've been locked into a negative alignment by the corruption. With a few exceptions, they aren't really evil by choice.
As is, trying to save Kas, who is still every bit as much a victim of said plague as anyone else, is less "a bad thing", so much as just a bit optimistic and selfish given all the shit going on... mind, given the highly contagious nature of said corruption, even killing her wouldn't actually "do" all that much in the end, and having her switch teams would be a major(and frankly likely to be needed) boon Vs all the armies of imps and demons.
Besides... the Wraiths are basically just demons minus most of the sympathetic elements, and given Kas is at least actively trying to get a soul back, a bunch of wraiths that basically just ended up getting a soul metaphorically stuck in their metaphorical teeth by pure chance... have very little room to talk on the matter.
Love small breasts with big bottoms so I keep Etheryn with A-cup breasts, but it's a bit annoying to see all her CGs show her with a much bigger bust size. Also, it's a bit jarring to see her switch art styles when changing classes, so I would like to see her with the more realistic art style.
I have found way more instances where Azyrran's sleep-buff of switching tease damage to pheromone damage is a hindrance more than a help. Starting with Azzy herself, during Land of Milky Honey where she has resistance to pheromone damage and vulnerability to tease (doesn't apply to her buff but does to the Rosebloom Shield).
A small handful of further examples:
Argoth - vulnerable to tease, but not pheromone.
Miko - same
Jael'yn - same
Blood Knight - same
Alissa - slightly weaker to pheromone in the Winter City, but weaker to tease in Dracia
Lureling - three times weaker to tease than to pheromone
Gytha - same as lureling
Gray Jelly - immune to pheromone, very weak to tease
Most of the statblocks I checked looking for examples, enemies were damaged by tease and pheromone equally. Genova was the only other enemy I found where pheromone damage is more effective.
I realise I'm picking and choosing examples to fit my argument, but this is the impression I've gotten over a few playthroughs. I've found more examples where it makes no difference or where tease is the better option, than where pheromone damage is more effective. I feel like the more I've looked into this, the more I find that this 'buff' from Azzy is actually making more fights harder than easier. Which sucks, 'cus she's one of my favourite companions.
A small handful of further examples:
Argoth - vulnerable to tease, but not pheromone.
Miko - same
Jael'yn - same
Blood Knight - same
Alissa - slightly weaker to pheromone in the Winter City, but weaker to tease in Dracia
Lureling - three times weaker to tease than to pheromone
Gytha - same as lureling
Gray Jelly - immune to pheromone, very weak to tease
Most of the statblocks I checked looking for examples, enemies were damaged by tease and pheromone equally. Genova was the only other enemy I found where pheromone damage is more effective.
I realise I'm picking and choosing examples to fit my argument, but this is the impression I've gotten over a few playthroughs. I've found more examples where it makes no difference or where tease is the better option, than where pheromone damage is more effective. I feel like the more I've looked into this, the more I find that this 'buff' from Azzy is actually making more fights harder than easier. Which sucks, 'cus she's one of my favourite companions.
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Well, as far as degeneracy goes, text-based h-games are relatively - relatively - cerebral. They're basically like reading erotica, so the sort of people who enjoy them are probably more well-read and therefore well-spoken than your average porn consumer. That post was still a little long-winded, though.
But also: autism. Let's be real, it's got to be at least 70% of us.
That ain't me pulling a thesaurus, that is literally the term used. If you got a less verbose way to say it then shoot your shot.
Most of your other points have been actually discussed by other forums members interestingly enough, but I would like to address the point.
First of all, you are not wrong.
Your perspective on Kasyrra is completely valid. Kasyrra is an evil person. I would characterize her more as a neutral evil character though.
What I like about her character is that she is nuanced. Now you can say that none of her backstory matters in the context of her actions and the game gives you a completely valid path towards treating Kasyrra as just a villain.
The Romance path is an alternative option, that while it doesn't excuse her actions, does provide context to them. Kasyrra's demonification was forced upon her. The thing that I find most interesting about it though is that Kasyrra is actually conflicted about it. She likes the power and pleasure that comes from her form, but is also tormented by what it robs her. She can't just ignore it because demons are based around their obsessions.
Regarding Kas and her daughters, it's true. She does have several children such as Aileh, but it's still not real to her. Kas actually can't love someone else and even if she doesn't want to admit it, the champion is no exception. The intention I got from the soulbound split wasn't that it was a guilt trip but rather her realizing that her "love" was very conditional.
The other companions will explicitly call you out for pursuing a relationship with Kas. Cait is about near to smack you upside the head and even Brienne will go "I don't know if that's such a good idea."
It does beg the question of what happens if she does get an "authentic" child. I'll be confident in throwing this story in the trash if, and only if, it turns out she gets (what she says) she wants and is 100% happy with it.
i mean thats what would happen wouldnt it? this is a porn game i dont think it will deal with the themese of "careful what you wish for" in an ending thats supposed to "redeem a baddie"
No one's gonna know what that means without looking it up, even with context. Just say a Jeffrey Dahmer fangirl or something.
I mean... she's a demon. Kind of the whole "point" of all her effort, is that she literally can't have them unless she gets a soul. Thus if she has had them, she'd therefor have a soul. Thus becoming capable of the full range of emotions that she is currently literally incapable of. How much this will effect her personality is kind of just a wait and see, but hard to imagine anything but "a lot".
Redemption stories tend to fall flat if the subject doesn't address the central issue that made them fall in the first place. Kys already has a lot of kids, even ones from her loins, and she's still unhappy. I don't think one more, no matter how special they are, is going to cut it.
My pet theory is her biggest roadblock is appreciating the kids she already has. If she actually regrows a soul, I'll admit the results would be interesting to see.
but you are missing the part that she has no soul therefore she literally can't appreciate them before she geta a soul, with the talks about how the soul isnt that important in the game, you may have forgotten that it IS responsible for empathy, humanity, and all sorts of other emotions like loving someone aside from you, also about the "kids from her loins"...what kids babe? rapist weirdos that are the exact carbon copies of the rapist weirdos that raped her in the beginning and cost her her soul? i dont think its a "road block" if she hates them, if anything thats one of the most justifiable parts of her character, but the way you talk about her its like she gives birth to, or sires, not imps but just corrupted characters, which is not true, and she is still unhappy, are we seeing the same character? (this is coming from someone who isnt even romancing kas)
You're wasting your time trying to explain this.
i get it, but for someone so uppity about there being a "proper redemption ark and story" they missed a whole lot
Justifiable on what grounds? While it's true that she hates Imps and Pure characters hate Imps, it may be a mistake to think they hate them for the same reasons.
If her natural births are literal carbon copies of the sex crimes against her, then that means she's likely to see her other kids no differently. That hangup is what I'd like to see her dealing with, and ultimately letting go of.
You're the one who asserted that her getting what she wants will be 100% catch-free, when the most obvious route to regrowing her soul, at the moment, is going to involve a lot more soul sacrifices than just your PC. When her empathy switch gets flicked back on, I think she might have a problem with that. If you want to think about workarounds, remember the author explicitly vetoed "Power of Love"-type solutions.
If I'm being too reductive and close-minded, I should say I am appreciative of the forum of showing me the exact circular logic to her motivations.
1: For the art specifically, you have to remember that this is a passion project from a bunch of ppl who really enjoy this content, not some larger company. Idk if the artists are volunteering their art or getting paid commission, that is none of my business, but this game has been in development since, what, 2016 or 17? From my perspective a LOT of the art in the recent patches has been on style, or at the very least quite similar (Thank you Moira I tend to see a lot of their art here)1) The creator needs to implement a style guide for the artists.
The art and writing is so inconsistent because of so many different artists and writers that it does take me out of it and it feels less like a legitimate game and more like a potluck. I find myself remembering a specific experience, the Matiha's Revenge quest. I saw Berwyn then Astraea and had to take a minute because the art styles were so different that it was jarring. When different artists working on the same game or show, they usually have some kind of style guide because consistency is key. But this game clearly does not have that and it suffers for it. There is some artists who can do complex shading and poses and some who can only do flat color art and standing still poses, which isn't necessarily a bad thing on those artists, but they shouldn't be BOTH working on character sprites.
2) Writing.
There is also the writing, which I feel is way worse of an issue because this is a text based game, if the text is inconsistent then the entire game is inconsistent. When I have to avoid certain parts of the game or certain characters because I don't like that particular writer, that's a big problem because if the game was consistent then I wouldn't even be able to tell if it was a different writer. It feels like playing a Batman game, but Batman switches around randomly from being the Adam West, George Clooney, or Christian Bale Batman while trying to be a serious competent game. Which, especially after playing the first COC, I really don't think this is.
3) Kasyrra ("Don't you DARE critize my original OC!!!")
I can understand why some people like this character the same way people like Whitney from DOL, it's a kink thing, and to those people know this is not directed at you. Other than horny there is nothing redeemable or likable about this character in my opinion. If she was simply a chaotic evil character wanting to sexually subjugate the world I would prefer that, because trying to reform her feels idiotic at minimum. This character has done so many sick and disgusting acts that trying to excuse it or reform her feels like a hybristophiliac trying to excuse her favorite serial killer's actions and thinking their love alone can save the person from repeatedly raping everything. Not only that, the game almost tries to guilt you when you do anything against her, such as being soulbound. If the game has a bad ending at all, even in the slightest, or if there is some bs with the T R U E ending being locked behind having to romance and redeem Karyrra, then I'm losing it. I remember the story of someone who found a loophole to actually beat Kasyrra in a fight, then the creator stopped that. Hey, creator, if the fight is unwinnable... Don't add it. It rarely is anything but annoying for the player, there is very rare instances of unwinnable fights actually having the effect of "oh WOW this character is so COOL and STRONG."
But above all else, there is the one trope I hate the most with Kasyrra. "You see this villain or badass female character? You see she actually has a tragic backstory... She has fertility issues she just wanted to be a mother ):" I get that isn't exactly the situation with Kasyrra, it's actually worse because Kasyrra DOES have multiple children, just not any biological ones. Sorry, Aileh.
4) I agree with all criticism towards Kiyoko, her writing, and her being dick locked. Yeah, I am aware it being under the "No we are NOT going to change it" section, I can still absolutely criticize the fuck out of that stupid decision as much as I want though. ("Don't touch my PRECIOUS kitsune you HEATHENS, there is NOTHING wrong about her writing, it is actually complex and you don't understand it!") If there was a companion character with about a similar level quantity of content vagina locked then I think it would be fair, such as just making a genderbent Kiyoko adjusted to fit the scenario. Even in COC1 there is a character who is dick locked, but you can still recruit her through other means, just not have sex with her.
5) I agree with all criticism towards the game having a clear preference towards female NPCs and especially companions.
Agnimitra, female and possibly herm.
Arona, female herm.
Atugia, female.
Azyrran, female,
Cait, female and potentially magicock.
Etheryn, female futa.
Kiyoko, female.
Viviane, female and potentially herm.
Then there is Quintillus, who I am surprised hasn't been forced to have a fem transformation route (yet), then Brint. Brint, one of the few male masculine characters in the game and of course that's not allowed so hi Brienne, you could have been just another character because you are completely different personality wise from Brint but whatever. If someone wants to say there isn't a bias, tell me, in any Fenoxo game is there a female character who can get masculinized? I'm not talking getting a dick. I am talking the female character now using a male name, male appearance, male pronouns, and a dick.
Of course you as a game creator are allowed to have a preference, but seeing the creator swear up and down that there isn't a preference is eye rolling.
6) A game that lets you be a trans woman (identify and be referred to as a woman with traditionally male genitals) or trans man (identify and be referred to as a man with traditionally female genitals), should also let you be nonbinary. I have seen the creator address this before but I personally do not buy the explanations provided, and since you are selling this product, getting funding for said product, and even getting contributions through several different artists and writers to lighten your workload considerably, I do not see there being a reason to not do this unless there is a more personal reason for doing so and like I said with my previous point, I would rather the creator just admit to that instead of pretending otherwise. The game can't even use the excuse that it is a biological sex geared game when there is an option to set what gender you are referred to as.
I guess all around, I didn't realize what made me dislike this game so much until I played the first one and actually did really like the first one. I only spent $10 on this, so I'm not too bothered, but :/
2: Writing is the same thing, there are a lot of separate writers in this spanning a long bridge of time. The writers have all gotten better and better for the most part, (or aren't writing anymore) but as this is a small team, focusing the writing team down to a few ppl and making absolute sure the writing feels like its coming from 1 person would delay patch releases by ages. Not saying you can't have sections you don't like, there are def some parts I didn't (I too took a swing at the dead-kitsune-horse) but remember that this is very much a passion project that you can get FOR FREE. Steam/patreon are optional.
3: For Kasyrra - optional content. As far as I am concerned in every playthrough I do, I want her dead. The game lets me do that. Some players don't care, and want to romance her. Game lets em do that too, the point is to give players options. On a personal note, while she has a "tragic reason" for what she does, she is corrupted - that is going to twist what she would be willing to do and make it a monstrous goal. (Also her beating you early in an unwinnable fight is to show that you still got a ways to go before you can go toe to toe with her) AGAIN, totally fine if you don't like her - as I said, Imma kill her when we get that choice, or ya-YEET her into another dimension where it won't be my problem.
4: Kiyoko and her whole story revolves around a pregnancy fetish. She wants the D. If you aren't about that, then there isn't really a point in recruiting her, esp since she doesn't really comment on much in regards to the story. Having her leech of a non-dicked char could be a thing, but npcs have preferences. Is what it is.
5: Valid point, we need more straight up dude companions. Although I don't think they are making any more so in that case we need more just straight men too. Not my cup of tea but that's a fair request.
6: Fair to want non-binary, seems like a reasonable request, albeit a lot of work, unless there is code that detects the players preferred gender identity and could be altered that way.
Some fair points in there, just throwing my 2 cents in. (In before I'm dead wrong about every aspect of this games development.)
no, no you dont get, the part where me and you disagree is that you see her giving birth to imps the same as giving birth to any other being, which is fundamentally not true, giving birth to a literal spirit of uncontrolable lust, destruction and psycopathy is not the same as giving birth to a living being with a soul, even on something as basic as looks its not the same.
and for the second point about if she regains empathy then how will she deal with the sacrifices done for her, I think the happiness of regaining a soul would be more impactful than her regret, also we already have lethicide(or whatever its called), to use in experiments for her soul in our inventory, you dont need a mass of souls to return one l, you just need one, saying this from the previous games soul lore which this one obviously works on
4. While I agree it's fine npcs have preferences, like Liaden being gay etc... I do think it's a very odd choice to put that on a legitimate companion. She's the only companion to have these restrictions put on, need to have a dick, need to sex her, need to romance her and have a family with. It's not like that with any others, and is probably a reason to why she's so less involved in the first place tbf. She really just should have been a npc that you can summon in combat instead imo.
Yeah, that's fair actually - her being summon-able would be a solid middle ground i think
She's probably like this because the environment when she was made in was so different. She would have fit more alongside a dozen different companions where her exclusivity would be less pronounced. I know it would have increased the writer's work load, but it's still disappointing companion submissions were closed so early.
You lose the ability to summon her once she's freed.
As someone who would prefer to play pure female, this does disappoint me. Is there anything the size of Freja, let alone Kiyoko and Kinu, gated behind not having a dick?
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