Your Gripes With CoC2

mallowmar42

Active Member
Jul 21, 2017
28
31
Kansas City
I'm not sure if we can do that dynamically but the greyscale thing IS a cool idea.


Post your saves, I'm curious as to what's going on with your character. You're definitely having a very atypical experience and I need a lot more details to diagnose it.
here's my save, it is edited to have more of the fun starter perks and early mirror stance cause I thought for certain that would be more useful. I am aware that mirror stance pulls heavy aggro (it would be kind of useless if it didn't) I'm not complaining about the head ache this gave me I knew what i was getting into in this instance. I mostly fought bosses with it changed out if I knew there was a way to get their skills otherwise.
 

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Savin

Master Analmander
Staff member
Aug 26, 2015
6,302
10,356
here's my save, it is edited to have more of the fun starter perks and early mirror stance cause I thought for certain that would be more useful. I am aware that mirror stance pulls heavy aggro (it would be kind of useless if it didn't) I'm not complaining about the head ache this gave me I knew what i was getting into in this instance. I mostly fought bosses with it changed out if I knew there was a way to get their skills otherwise.
Without changing anything on your save except turning the Difficulty up to max, I walked your party all the way from Khor'minos to the Undermountain waystone, teleported back to Hawkethorne, took a nap and bought some camping supplies, came back, and then walked all the way to the Windy Peaks's waystone (which involved Exploring all the way there since you hadn't been yet on this save). I did actually lose once to a very unlucky 5x Vulperine Hunter pack in the Peaks, but I was way overdue to camp so that one's really on me (and so I reloaded a save from the very start of Windy Peaks and did the entire thing again, this time without losing, for good measure).

Since you said you WANTED to use Arona, I then went back to Hawkethorne, took a nap, recruited Arona, and then did the rest of the Windy Peaks' map exploration with her (Warhides set) and Passion Priestess Cait. I also swapped a couple of powers out -- I gave you prime target and Assassinate. I wouldn't say this is better, your starting build is actually REALLY GOOD, but I thought it was fun that you both had PT and Cleave to brutalize encounters with. Since the Vulps all have Cornered Beast this probably made things harder on me, but it was pretty manageable with the occasional Assassinate or Berserkergang pop! Again, pretty easy sweep-through of the area.

So yeah I'm not really sure where your issue actually is coming from. Your build and party comp are both solid (even swapping Arona and Azzy), and is able to merrily wipe the floor with the hardest areas on the hardest difficulty. I could see this maybe having some issues against enemies with a lot of physical damage resistance, but you can circumvent that with weapon buffs (Witch Cait has one in her encounter slot that's HOLY, but you can also just use Naptha/etc.). Proactive consumables use on a weapon-using character is a huge damage boost and I highly recommend it (though I didn't use any consumables for my runthrough of Undermountain and Windy Peaks today).

If I were to seriously change anything it might be to swap a few points of Cunning into Toughness for more HP, but honestly if you're willing to pop Unbreakable proactively as soon as your HP gets low that's not really necessary. You should definitely invest into a stack or two of camping supplies to take with you: having your camping perks and ults available really does make a difference for harder content. Having Witch Cait pop Shield of Light on your tank Turn 1 is a huge survivability boost, but Spirit Veil from Passion Priestess is also good; if you keep Arona, make sure to have her use her Shield Drive asap, since that's even more bonus damage resistance for her. After that it's pretty much just 2x Cleave -> focus down whoever's left at the lowest HP.
 

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mallowmar42

Active Member
Jul 21, 2017
28
31
Kansas City
Hm, perhaps I wasn't clear. The regular mobs (unless they have a high physical resistance as you've said, like ghosts) are not really a problem, I can march all the way from khorminos to hawkethorne as well, I've already done it once, the only time I had an issue was when I got jumped by minotaur ghosts and couldn't do anything to them. I had to surrender because I couldn't run either and they couldn't actually kill my party, that was when I switched out Aronna because every time ghosts came up I had problems and I didn't know when that was going to happen. As for camping supplies and consumables I probably could be carrying those around but again I can't predict when I'll need them and those are inventory slots that are used up in a very limited inventory. It's probably a me thing but I can't stand being overburdened and being told that I need to drop something.

The real issue comes when I fight bosses, as I said it's a coin flip if I win and sometimes it's more of a dice roll and the only winning number is if I roll a perfect 20 on the rng. The den of foxes, Alante, and Alissa at the very least (the centaur and Jarl Gunvauldson could have been a problem but the good ending is to talk them down). The den of foxes was a coin flip, Alissa was rolling a D6 and getting a 6, and Alante I beat once and I still don't know how I managed that. Every one of the encounters has been a nightmare for my warrior and a breeze for my charmer. I don't know if I'm going at Alante with a low level at 7, if 8 would be more appropriate but I don't know if I could beat her consistently at level 8 I don't know if I could beat her at level 10. I see people talking about soloing her and I have no idea how that is happening.
 

orropo

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2024
274
312
24
Hm, perhaps I wasn't clear. The regular mobs (unless they have a high physical resistance as you've said, like ghosts) are not really a problem, I can march all the way from khorminos to hawkethorne as well, I've already done it once, the only time I had an issue was when I got jumped by minotaur ghosts and couldn't do anything to them. I had to surrender because I couldn't run either and they couldn't actually kill my party, that was when I switched out Aronna because every time ghosts came up I had problems and I didn't know when that was going to happen. As for camping supplies and consumables I probably could be carrying those around but again I can't predict when I'll need them and those are inventory slots that are used up in a very limited inventory. It's probably a me thing but I can't stand being overburdened and being told that I need to drop something.

The real issue comes when I fight bosses, as I said it's a coin flip if I win and sometimes it's more of a dice roll and the only winning number is if I roll a perfect 20 on the rng. The den of foxes, Alante, and Alissa at the very least (the centaur and Jarl Gunvauldson could have been a problem but the good ending is to talk them down). The den of foxes was a coin flip, Alissa was rolling a D6 and getting a 6, and Alante I beat once and I still don't know how I managed that. Every one of the encounters has been a nightmare for my warrior and a breeze for my charmer. I don't know if I'm going at Alante with a low level at 7, if 8 would be more appropriate but I don't know if I could beat her consistently at level 8 I don't know if I could beat her at level 10. I see people talking about soloing her and I have no idea how that is happening.
bosses have gimmicks tho, like some are defeated by teases, others by bleeding them, thats the point, point is you cant really brute force ALL of 'em, sometimes you gotta flash a titty
 

Charity

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2020
120
66
bosses have gimmicks tho, like some are defeated by teases, others by bleeding them, thats the point, point is you cant really brute force ALL of 'em, sometimes you gotta flash a titty
Aren' t there literally only one boss who was* downed only by resolve dmg, but now you can actually bruteforce them since there no more resolve and phys/mag resist aren't that big. For a Spellblade.

*one of shrine floofs
 

Resawar

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2018
167
231
The real issue comes when I fight bosses, as I said it's a coin flip if I win and sometimes it's more of a dice roll and the only winning number is if I roll a perfect 20 on the rng. The den of foxes, Alante, and Alissa at the very least (the centaur and Jarl Gunvauldson could have been a problem but the good ending is to talk them down). The den of foxes was a coin flip, Alissa was rolling a D6 and getting a 6, and Alante I beat once and I still don't know how I managed that. Every one of the encounters has been a nightmare for my warrior and a breeze for my charmer. I don't know if I'm going at Alante with a low level at 7, if 8 would be more appropriate but I don't know if I could beat her consistently at level 8 I don't know if I could beat her at level 10. I see people talking about soloing her and I have no idea how that is happening.
You should get better at the game and I don't even mean this meanly but Skill issue.

I took your save and bashed my head into both most of the arena and into Alissa and beat them in one try. I was using Acid flask, Diving thrust, and Deadly shadow as the powers with assassinate as the ultimate. I grabbed the gladius from your chest, got a kunai, used the grief maker, and grabbed the dragon scale while at the island, and changed out your shitter gear like your gloves,necklace, and rings. I didn't even abuse bless even though I was using Chief Arona and Queenly Ryn. Mind you I have never fought Demon Aliss or the arena before doing it right this moment. I main support charmer and I did fine playing as a warrior for the first time while doing this.
 

orropo

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2024
274
312
24
Aren' t there literally only one boss who was* downed only by resolve dmg, but now you can actually bruteforce them since there no more resolve and phys/mag resist aren't that big. For a Spellblade.

*one of shrine floofs
I didnt know that, but now that i know, damn mellow, you suck at fighting in a PORN GAME, this is beyond skill issue, this is a genetic disadvantage /j
 

Resawar

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2018
167
231
if you got arona her ghostfucker set you'd be steamrolling
They didn't have any companion sets unlocked really like Cait only had two sets and one was the witch set. So I did it with what they basically had minus a power they didn't steal for some reason or an item they didn't buy to make a point of it.
 

Lostname475

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2023
56
22
33
Early game feels a bit too fast with exp gains tbh. Like if i do all the content south of the frostwood (which is how i define early game in this) I'll be massively overleveled for most of it and a lot of the enemies will be no threat to me even on dark. Wish there was a way to slow down exp gain
 

SeveringCrisis

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2018
68
25
Hm, perhaps I wasn't clear. The regular mobs (unless they have a high physical resistance as you've said, like ghosts) are not really a problem, I can march all the way from khorminos to hawkethorne as well, I've already done it once, the only time I had an issue was when I got jumped by minotaur ghosts and couldn't do anything to them. I had to surrender because I couldn't run either and they couldn't actually kill my party, that was when I switched out Aronna because every time ghosts came up I had problems and I didn't know when that was going to happen.
Brother don't tell me you have witch cait in party and don't know how to do damage to ghosts while also refusing to carry and use naptha. Anyway, a tip; put arona back in your party and go to viviane to unlock a quest for a new set for her
 

Lostname475

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2023
56
22
33
Also, it feels like the combat changes have decreased accuracy across the board, I don't have any numbers to back this up but I just watched 5 hits miss in a row, 2 of mine, 2 of the crazy horse's and one of brint's. Feels like combats are just dragging out with very little happening now
 

mbezzo

Member
Jun 7, 2024
23
39
31
The combat in this game is overtuned. Unless you're playing a charmer it feels kind of miserable to play. If I play a charmer I can kind of do whatever, just go with the clothes that make you the sexiest/give the most temptation and you steamroll every fight in the game that can be defeated with tease and mine damage and you can bring companions specialized in dealing with the ones that don't fold. Meanwhile, I bring a warrior and every fight of my level I win by the skin of my teeth, if I can win. Boss fights feel like purely luck based missions. If I play completely optimally with an optimal build (on anything other than charmer) it's a question of whether the dice fall in a way that I can win or get one shot. Again, charmers don't have this problem as they just two or three shot most fights boss but I don't want to play a charmer. I also don't want to feel like I need to turn the difficulty down so I can play anything other than a charmer.
I wouldn't say physical damage builds can't win fights except with luck but they definitely feel the weakest to me by a fair margin. Mages and charmers have lots of equipment that give spellpower/sexiness plus a good assortment of strong powers. Meanwhile there's almost no gear that gives attack power and it seems like this is "balanced" by powers and class perks which add attack power...which just ends up equalizing to what mages/charmers already get for free from gear, except spells/charms are also strong on top of the gear stats you can get. Meanwhile with physical you pretty much have to utilize magic weapon buffs just to deal similar (yet still lower) damage.

For instance, flash fire and suggestive sway are recharge powers that can easily deal over 400 damage to a single target with just a blessing (usually for me it's over 500 with my setup depending on enemy resistances and sometimes even over 600). The only physical power that can do something similar is triple threat with blessing AND magic weapon buffs, and there's nothing comparable for melee recharge powers, the only thing close being eviscerate which is an encounter power. Physical powers also lack good AoE options in general, all of which are essentially AoE basic attacks with no attack bonuses (crowd control's is designed to 'even out' over multiple enemies) and therefore require buffs to be competitive as I mentioned above, yet in the best setups my physical AoE powers deal high 200s or maaaybe low 300s if I disregard efficiency and go all in with buffing every turn just for a screenshot, while my AoE charms easily and consistently deal over 300 and my spells over 400 if the target has low ward or they hit resistances (there is almost nothing that can resist dawnbreak by the way). Speaking of resistances, it seems like everything has penetrating resist which makes up the majority of physical damage and there's no way to lower it, and of course armor penetration doesn't do anything about it, which is also why magic weapon buffs are important for physical builds.

The above numbers are from normal difficulty but I can still demolish dark mode colisseum with black mage and charmer in 2-3 turns each round except the last boss who needs 3-5 depending on build and luck (assuming he doesn't just one-shot a party member with his 4 turns per round), while physical damage feels tedious with the amount of support it needs, yet still takes longer to end fights and is therefore more prone to defeat especially if not minmaxing.

I hope the devs read this and buff physical builds instead of saying mages/charmers are too strong lol.
 
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OccultTheEnby

Member
Aug 29, 2024
9
8
27
1) The creator needs to implement a style guide for the artists.

The art and writing is so inconsistent because of so many different artists and writers that it does take me out of it and it feels less like a legitimate game and more like a potluck. I find myself remembering a specific experience, the Matiha's Revenge quest. I saw Berwyn then Astraea and had to take a minute because the art styles were so different that it was jarring. When different artists working on the same game or show, they usually have some kind of style guide because consistency is key. But this game clearly does not have that and it suffers for it. There is some artists who can do complex shading and poses and some who can only do flat color art and standing still poses, which isn't necessarily a bad thing on those artists, but they shouldn't be BOTH working on character sprites.

2) Writing.

There is also the writing, which I feel is way worse of an issue because this is a text based game, if the text is inconsistent then the entire game is inconsistent. When I have to avoid certain parts of the game or certain characters because I don't like that particular writer, that's a big problem because if the game was consistent then I wouldn't even be able to tell if it was a different writer. It feels like playing a Batman game, but Batman switches around randomly from being the Adam West, George Clooney, or Christian Bale Batman while trying to be a serious competent game. Which, especially after playing the first COC, I really don't think this is.

3) Kasyrra ("Don't you DARE critize my original OC!!!")

I can understand why some people like this character the same way people like Whitney from DOL, it's a kink thing, and to those people know this is not directed at you. Other than horny there is nothing redeemable or likable about this character in my opinion. If she was simply a chaotic evil character wanting to sexually subjugate the world I would prefer that, because trying to reform her feels idiotic at minimum. This character has done so many sick and disgusting acts that trying to excuse it or reform her feels like a hybristophiliac trying to excuse her favorite serial killer's actions and thinking their love alone can save the person from repeatedly raping everything. Not only that, the game almost tries to guilt you when you do anything against her, such as being soulbound. If the game has a bad ending at all, even in the slightest, or if there is some bs with the T R U E ending being locked behind having to romance and redeem Karyrra, then I'm losing it. I remember the story of someone who found a loophole to actually beat Kasyrra in a fight, then the creator stopped that. Hey, creator, if the fight is unwinnable... Don't add it. It rarely is anything but annoying for the player, there is very rare instances of unwinnable fights actually having the effect of "oh WOW this character is so COOL and STRONG."

But above all else, there is the one trope I hate the most with Kasyrra. "You see this villain or badass female character? You see she actually has a tragic backstory... She has fertility issues she just wanted to be a mother ):" I get that isn't exactly the situation with Kasyrra, it's actually worse because Kasyrra DOES have multiple children, just not any biological ones. Sorry, Aileh.

4) I agree with all criticism towards Kiyoko, her writing, and her being dick locked. Yeah, I am aware it being under the "No we are NOT going to change it :mad:" section, I can still absolutely criticize the fuck out of that stupid decision as much as I want though. ("Don't touch my PRECIOUS kitsune you HEATHENS, there is NOTHING wrong about her writing, it is actually complex and you don't understand it!") If there was a companion character with about a similar level quantity of content vagina locked then I think it would be fair, such as just making a genderbent Kiyoko adjusted to fit the scenario. Even in COC1 there is a character who is dick locked, but you can still recruit her through other means, just not have sex with her.

5) I agree with all criticism towards the game having a clear preference towards female NPCs and especially companions.

Agnimitra, female and possibly herm.
Arona, female herm.
Atugia, female.
Azyrran, female,
Cait, female and potentially magicock.
Etheryn, female futa.
Kiyoko, female.
Viviane, female and potentially herm.

Then there is Quintillus, who I am surprised hasn't been forced to have a fem transformation route (yet), then Brint. Brint, one of the few male masculine characters in the game and of course that's not allowed so hi Brienne, you could have been just another character because you are completely different personality wise from Brint but whatever. If someone wants to say there isn't a bias, tell me, in any Fenoxo game is there a female character who can get masculinized? I'm not talking getting a dick. I am talking the female character now using a male name, male appearance, male pronouns, and a dick.

Of course you as a game creator are allowed to have a preference, but seeing the creator swear up and down that there isn't a preference is eye rolling.

6) A game that lets you be a trans woman (identify and be referred to as a woman with traditionally male genitals) or trans man (identify and be referred to as a man with traditionally female genitals), should also let you be nonbinary. I have seen the creator address this before but I personally do not buy the explanations provided, and since you are selling this product, getting funding for said product, and even getting contributions through several different artists and writers to lighten your workload considerably, I do not see there being a reason to not do this unless there is a more personal reason for doing so and like I said with my previous point, I would rather the creator just admit to that instead of pretending otherwise. The game can't even use the excuse that it is a biological sex geared game when there is an option to set what gender you are referred to as.

I guess all around, I didn't realize what made me dislike this game so much until I played the first one and actually did really like the first one. I only spent $10 on this, so I'm not too bothered, but :/
 

corvoe

Member
Sep 9, 2017
13
15
25
1) The creator needs to implement a style guide for the artists.

The art and writing is so inconsistent because of so many different artists and writers that it does take me out of it and it feels less like a legitimate game and more like a potluck. I find myself remembering a specific experience, the Matiha's Revenge quest. I saw Berwyn then Astraea and had to take a minute because the art styles were so different that it was jarring. When different artists working on the same game or show, they usually have some kind of style guide because consistency is key. But this game clearly does not have that and it suffers for it. There is some artists who can do complex shading and poses and some who can only do flat color art and standing still poses, which isn't necessarily a bad thing on those artists, but they shouldn't be BOTH working on character sprites.

2) Writing.

There is also the writing, which I feel is way worse of an issue because this is a text based game, if the text is inconsistent then the entire game is inconsistent. When I have to avoid certain parts of the game or certain characters because I don't like that particular writer, that's a big problem because if the game was consistent then I wouldn't even be able to tell if it was a different writer. It feels like playing a Batman game, but Batman switches around randomly from being the Adam West, George Clooney, or Christian Bale Batman while trying to be a serious competent game. Which, especially after playing the first COC, I really don't think this is.

3) Kasyrra ("Don't you DARE critize my original OC!!!")

I can understand why some people like this character the same way people like Whitney from DOL, it's a kink thing, and to those people know this is not directed at you. Other than horny there is nothing redeemable or likable about this character in my opinion. If she was simply a chaotic evil character wanting to sexually subjugate the world I would prefer that, because trying to reform her feels idiotic at minimum. This character has done so many sick and disgusting acts that trying to excuse it or reform her feels like a hybristophiliac trying to excuse her favorite serial killer's actions and thinking their love alone can save the person from repeatedly raping everything. Not only that, the game almost tries to guilt you when you do anything against her, such as being soulbound. If the game has a bad ending at all, even in the slightest, or if there is some bs with the T R U E ending being locked behind having to romance and redeem Karyrra, then I'm losing it. I remember the story of someone who found a loophole to actually beat Kasyrra in a fight, then the creator stopped that. Hey, creator, if the fight is unwinnable... Don't add it. It rarely is anything but annoying for the player, there is very rare instances of unwinnable fights actually having the effect of "oh WOW this character is so COOL and STRONG."

But above all else, there is the one trope I hate the most with Kasyrra. "You see this villain or badass female character? You see she actually has a tragic backstory... She has fertility issues she just wanted to be a mother ):" I get that isn't exactly the situation with Kasyrra, it's actually worse because Kasyrra DOES have multiple children, just not any biological ones. Sorry, Aileh.

4) I agree with all criticism towards Kiyoko, her writing, and her being dick locked. Yeah, I am aware it being under the "No we are NOT going to change it :mad:" section, I can still absolutely criticize the fuck out of that stupid decision as much as I want though. ("Don't touch my PRECIOUS kitsune you HEATHENS, there is NOTHING wrong about her writing, it is actually complex and you don't understand it!") If there was a companion character with about a similar level quantity of content vagina locked then I think it would be fair, such as just making a genderbent Kiyoko adjusted to fit the scenario. Even in COC1 there is a character who is dick locked, but you can still recruit her through other means, just not have sex with her.

5) I agree with all criticism towards the game having a clear preference towards female NPCs and especially companions.

Agnimitra, female and possibly herm.
Arona, female herm.
Atugia, female.
Azyrran, female,
Cait, female and potentially magicock.
Etheryn, female futa.
Kiyoko, female.
Viviane, female and potentially herm.

Then there is Quintillus, who I am surprised hasn't been forced to have a fem transformation route (yet), then Brint. Brint, one of the few male masculine characters in the game and of course that's not allowed so hi Brienne, you could have been just another character because you are completely different personality wise from Brint but whatever. If someone wants to say there isn't a bias, tell me, in any Fenoxo game is there a female character who can get masculinized? I'm not talking getting a dick. I am talking the female character now using a male name, male appearance, male pronouns, and a dick.

Of course you as a game creator are allowed to have a preference, but seeing the creator swear up and down that there isn't a preference is eye rolling.

6) A game that lets you be a trans woman (identify and be referred to as a woman with traditionally male genitals) or trans man (identify and be referred to as a man with traditionally female genitals), should also let you be nonbinary. I have seen the creator address this before but I personally do not buy the explanations provided, and since you are selling this product, getting funding for said product, and even getting contributions through several different artists and writers to lighten your workload considerably, I do not see there being a reason to not do this unless there is a more personal reason for doing so and like I said with my previous point, I would rather the creator just admit to that instead of pretending otherwise. The game can't even use the excuse that it is a biological sex geared game when there is an option to set what gender you are referred to as.

I guess all around, I didn't realize what made me dislike this game so much until I played the first one and actually did really like the first one. I only spent $10 on this, so I'm not too bothered, but :/
I mean isnt the point that trying to redeem/romance Kas is a bad thing and the game makes this clear?
 

Ace Hangman

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
828
645
47
whats with people snorting thesauruses on porn game forums? we are all degenerates here, why are you wearing monocles?
An assemblage of supercilious, grandiose sophists if one were to inquire of my own pontification on the subject. As one should, since I'm preeminently versed in opining on such matters.