Your gripes with CoC II

[War Demon]

I guess today my only gripe is I can't enchant anything. Even though Viviane taught us how, still can't do it. But I don't want to be mean to the coders, they have more important things to work on. Bigger things to work on, trust me I somewhat get it. I'm writing a TF Event, and that little thing is exhausting me.

It gives me a little bit of empathy on what the devs, Savin, main writers, and coders do. In order to give us the content they do, I'm writing the TF event on my Android phone too. So no keyboard, very tiny screen, anyways not the point. I'm just saying I'd like the ability to enchant my weapons or armor.

Like maybe after Viv becomes a companion ok I'm done. Seriously though thank you Sav, & Co for everything that you can give us. Speaking with empathy after writing a measly, little TF event.

 

[valk42]

okay, let me tell you a secret. i once subbed garde's patreon. you can remove the cage with lumia in a literal god threesome. if that doesn't also unlock the romance i will shit, and i love ryn dick

edit: but if you won't do the bare minimum of a quick lube job on your waifu before she sires an heir on her not-mom just once, do you really love her? my gripe is there is no arona threesome

 

[Melancholy Man]

I truly can't imagine why.

You can judge me if you want because I won't let characters fuck me with their dicks if that makes you happy or feel morally superior, I won't care though, it's just something I don't enjoy and you don't see me judging people for their preferences, they do them.


Arona has a dick and she never uses it on my character, that didn't stop her from showing her feelings though.

In the end, you just want me to not complain about a character if I like them and do whatever they want in exchange of a show of emotion, which I disagree with.

GOT'EM

 

[Melancholy Man]

Wow, this sure blew up more than I thought it would!

It's a bit annoying to me because, frankly, I can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand, speaking as a fellow "I don't like taking the dick" individual, I can see the point being that if your character is portrayed as being in love with Ryn and she with them, then the confession being locked behind receiving dick from her could be a bit frustrating.

But, on the other hand, speaking as a "I enjoy Ryn enough as a character that I make an exception for her" individual, it also makes perfect narrative sense. Here, at the absolute turning point of her life, when she finally receives freedom and the option to live her life as she chooses, she wishes to have her first experience with the part of her that's been locked away with the person who means more to her than anybody else - you. Can you imagine how it would feel to have that denied? Even if the feelings have not changed, even if she still loves you, it makes perfect sense to me that it might slightly ruin the mood and make her hesitant to make any sort of confession.

To me, this is one of those cases where I try more to focus on what my character would do than what I would do. And I choose to think that if my straight, no-dick-please character loves Ryn as much as he's supposed to, he's very much willing to make an exception for her because of just how much she means to him; it's a sacrifice he makes for her sake, which is a fundamental part of most successful relationships. And in so doing, he thoroughly earns the confession, and cements his already hard-earned place in her heart.

Just thinking out loud with this.

I agree to an extent but I see what you are saying, this convo is ntn but spoilers for me cause I'm a public user; tho I disagree on the "to me, this is one of those cases where I try more to focus on what my character would do than what I would do. And I think that if my straight, no-dick-please character loves Ryn as much as he's supposed to, he's very much willing to make an exception for her because of just how much she means to him" Bit -are you roleplaying or just playing a role? There is a difference and the writing pushing you to her doesn't justify forcing the player to take it up the ass if they don't want to. I'm a Ryn lover but that doesn't fly with me but I can't ignore her because she's plot-relevant.
Another thing I've known for a while now but despise is the fact that Ryn shares El with you, El is everyone's girl, Ryn deserves better; like I'd like us to have the ability to give her a vag without removing the D. (maybe a couple of touch-ups to her lingerie scene, some sleeping scenes, and a new sex scene would be needed) or have us hook her up with some else. (I like when side characters get relevance through the game and it's both a notch in the CoC2 belt and its hiccups but this instance just doesn't feel right.)

 

[Acharehnus]

I mean, if you want nothing to do with a characters genitals I dunno why you'd be surprised you miss out on a scene or two with them.

That feels obvious and there's no real way around it. We've been told to just avoid like, the entire Den by it's writer for any gripes with it. So one or two scenes just doesn't seem like much to me. You got off pretty lucky by this projects standards of "deal with it"

 

[Resawar]

I feel as if I have been misread, I'm fine with Ryn wanting to fuck after getting her cage off it seem only natural and of course that would naturally deepen the feeling of the her and the champs relationship, I play a female herm so it's only a plus for me.

I was just saying that I'm surprised that others didn't get that certain people were going to complain that the elf wanted to do something special with her now free dick rather then get railed up the ass like normal.

 

[Melancholy Man]

I mean, if you want nothing to do with a characters genitals I dunno why you'd be surprised you miss out on a scene or two with them.

That feels obvious and there's no real way around it. We've been told to just avoid like, the entire Den by it's writer for any gripes with it. So one or two scenes just doesn't seem like much to me. You got off pretty lucky by this projects standards of "deal with it"

that's a bad mentality to go with tho, because that can just straight up hold potential back because legit problems can just be ignored.

 

[valk42]

Another thing I've known for a while now but despise is the fact that Ryn shares El with you, El is everyone's girl, Ryn deserves better

okay, i'll bite: what impregnable preexisting npc Is good enough?

 

[Melancholy Man]

Another hot set of gripes I really despise; Coc2 is repeating some of the same problems Coc1 had but isn't integrating all the good CoC1 made. So I'll list them out and explain why I feel this way and I'll point out examples where I can:
1. PC character is inconsistent from writer to writer. Coc1 had this to an extent but it wasn't so obvious it's rough because it can be avoided if they use perks to serve as checks for certain lines of dialogue and scenes. One such example is the player subbing for Evelyn should be locked behind a masochist or Subby perk so I don't stumble into getting throatfu@ked by a dickgirl (as/for a first-time player)
2. TF relevance; I have my own views on TFs getting gutted of depth but at least in Coc1 they were dynamic in various ways that aren't reliant on one aspect (combat aside). They played into sex scenes by adding new paragraphs and lines (Taunting the Sand witch after a W has a nice reference to powers and TFs and multiple sex scenes change a bit), they act as keys to content which make that content feel valuable, they were used to help characterize the NPCs because if the Forum wasn't evidence enough ppl have standards/boundaries/types that they like and they having these requirements gives them that human edge.
3. There are a lot more scenarios that allow for roleplay in Coc1 while you're more on a ride in Coc2 but with better quest design, example favor of Coc1 with the event when at the demon factory there are many reasons you can use to justify either decision on either side of the Pure/Corrupt argument. While in Coc2 there really is no reason to full-on hate or even Rival Kas, She not only saves you and Cait but ASK's IF you want to fuck, she's just another superpower looking to establish themselves in a similar way to the other powers in the Marshes have done.

 

[Acharehnus]

legit problems

This isn't one in my view. Sometimes when you want nothing to do with a characters genitals you miss out on scenes...That's unavoidable. And in this case it changes nothing about your characters interactions with her outside of it.

You can't have your cake and eat it too in this case. If you don't want to play with her dick you miss out on the scene where the first person she uses it on is you. There's no way around that.

 

[Melancholy Man]

okay, i'll bite: what impregnable preexisting npc Is good enough?

Tbh I lean towards the "give her a pussy" crowd but if there is one person I'd say is worth it would be Hethia, tho they have to tackle the PC shipping a Tsun with a DereDere

 

[Melancholy Man]

This isn't one in my view. Sometimes when you want nothing to do with a characters genitals you miss out on scenes...That's unavoidable. And in this case it changes nothing about your characters interactions with her outside of it.

You can't have your cake and eat it too in this case. If you don't want to play with her dick you miss out on the scene where the first person she uses it on is you. There's no way around that.

So what you're saying is that the scene doesn't carry any relevance since it doesn't add anything than just that one scene? Ok cool, I thought it added more scenes and callbacks/references.

 

[Sacremas]

So why is her fucking El considered a worthy enough of a jest while her fucking Cait or Arona is not? Just because we are not present? Since, by all admition, El is doing the heavy lifting in that exchange.

This whole thing just feels unnecessary. I hope there are other opportunities for he to confess our love to her latter down the line. Maybe a date or something. If not, this is just leaving me with sour taste in my mouth.

Exactly, you aren't present, and you have nothing to do with her, that's the big difference, so then people that don't want much to do with Etheryn can give her to Cait both times and tell her to sex others back at the Frosthound. Regardless of your choice, she NEEDS to fuck El regardless if the champ doesn't have a Vag available, because she needs royal heirs, that's a plot point that can't be gotten around so... just go with El in the first place.

Note, this is only for the "delcare undying love" part, if you just want her as your fuckbuddy buttslut, you never need that whole thing, and can just give her to Cait anyway. But if you are declaring full on love for someone, but refuse to have something to do with their dick, ever, despite knowing about it all the time... well, then if you can't see any problems with that, then I can't help you.

 

[Sacremas]

I agree to an extent but I see what you are saying, this convo is ntn but spoilers for me cause I'm a public user; tho I disagree on the "to me, this is one of those cases where I try more to focus on what my character would do than what I would do. And I think that if my straight, no-dick-please character loves Ryn as much as he's supposed to, he's very much willing to make an exception for her because of just how much she means to him" Bit -are you roleplaying or just playing a role? There is a difference and the writing pushing you to her doesn't justify forcing the player to take it up the ass if they don't want to. I'm a Ryn lover but that doesn't fly with me but I can't ignore her because she's plot-relevant.
Another thing I've known for a while now but despise is the fact that Ryn shares El with you, El is everyone's girl, Ryn deserves better; like I'd like us to have the ability to give her a vag without removing the D. (maybe a couple of touch-ups to her lingerie scene, some sleeping scenes, and a new sex scene would be needed) or have us hook her up with some else. (I like when side characters get relevance through the game and it's both a notch in the CoC2 belt and its hiccups but this instance just doesn't feel right.)

Vag was vetoed on the simple basis that Ryn already is nearly broken code-wise with her existing transform parsers and stuff, it would just be too much. Not to mention all of the scenes that need to be drastically rewritten... and then you have the fact that Ryn herself several times specifically says she doesn't want one in-game. Now, arguably the cumflation scenes kinda alluded to her being pregged at some point, but that was apparently mostly just bedtime talk, as opposed to something Ryn wants, and if you do milky scenes with her for example, or a few others, it's kinda clear what was always her preference, to be able to knock up the Champ at some point in the future. Failing that however, Ryn needs to knock up someone just on the basis of being last surviving non-demonic heir of the royal line. It's her literal duty that superceedes anyything else, so if champ lacks the part, someone else needs to step in, and Elthara is the most obvious alternative, especially since she's not everyone's girl, she's your girl on the same basis as Brienne for example, she won't ever fuck anyone else unless she has your say so, even when she has similar insane needs as Brienne does. So you get together with Ryn and your best girl who's also Ryn's close adviser and a respected noble in her own right and make an heir. Or you don't, and Ryn presumably has to find someone else without you.

 

[Bluebird42]

But if you are declaring full on love for someone, but refuse to have something to do with their dick, ever, despite knowing about it all the time... well, then if you can't see any problems with that, then I can't help you.

This is something that's been bothering me about this whole series of complaints!

It's not like she hid her dick; in fact, she's been pretty vocal about wanting to use it. People are acting like it just suddenly bitch slapped them in a drive by or something. And like, I know it's a porn game, but love has concessions and compromise. If you are that against taking fictional dick from a character everyone knew had a dick in the first place and was vocal about wanting to use it, idk what to tell y'all. It's a pretty big part of her character, and denying it then throwing a fit about it says more about you than the game that made it plainly obvious where all this was going.

Edit: fixed a typo

 

[PuppyPrincess]

I was just saying that I'm surprised that others didn't get that certain people were going to complain that the elf wanted to do something special with her now free dick rather then get railed up the ass like normal.

Not to get embroiled too deeply in this whole conversation but I'd like to point out that "getting railed up the ass" was not normal for Ryn prior to meeting the champ and is only "normal" because she's literally unable to use her dick. Depending on her libido she might have grown to love getting railed but that doesn't mean she suddenly wouldn't want to equally use her dick if she could. I wouldn't have even considered that people would complain that Ryn would like to use her dick when it was free, there is nothing in her content that suggests she wouldn't want to use it if possible.

So to me it sounds like 'certain people' completely ignored a big part of Ryn's character/story if they reduced her to elf buttslut. Also not directed at you or anyone in particular but I do wonder if some people who expected Ryn to never use her dick overlap with those who are desperate for her to trade her D for a V.

 

[Darmelo]

Another hot set of gripes I really despise; Coc2 is repeating some of the same problems Coc1 had but isn't integrating all the good CoC1 made. So I'll list them out and explain why I feel this way and I'll point out examples where I can:
1. PC character is inconsistent from writer to writer. Coc1 had this to an extent but it wasn't so obvious it's rough because it can be avoided if they use perks to serve as checks for certain lines of dialogue and scenes. One such example is the player subbing for Evelyn should be locked behind a masochist or Subby perk so I don't stumble into getting throatfu@ked by a dickgirl (as/for a first-time player)
2. TF relevance; I have my own views on TFs getting gutted of depth but at least in Coc1 they were dynamic in various ways that aren't reliant on one aspect (combat aside). They played into sex scenes by adding new paragraphs and lines (Taunting the Sand witch after a W has a nice reference to powers and TFs and multiple sex scenes change a bit), they act as keys to content which make that content feel valuable, they were used to help characterize the NPCs because if the Forum wasn't evidence enough ppl have standards/boundaries/types that they like and they having these requirements gives them that human edge.
3. There are a lot more scenarios that allow for roleplay in Coc1 while you're more on a ride in Coc2 but with better quest design, example favor of Coc1 with the event when at the demon factory there are many reasons you can use to justify either decision on either side of the Pure/Corrupt argument. While in Coc2 there really is no reason to full-on hate or even Rival Kas, She not only saves you and Cait but ASK's IF you want to fuck, she's just another superpower looking to establish themselves in a similar way to the other powers in the Marshes have done.

1. The pc was inconsistent as hell in CoC1, as it still is to a degree in CoC2, yes. This comes with the territory when there's multiple writers, multiple different types of content, and multiple "personalities" for the pc. Adding perks here and there to gate content will do little but make it harder to access said content, and other content you may be interested in but don't know what perks you'd need. Not to mention the absolute mess of coding and things to pay attention to it'd add, you'd need a spreadsheet to be able to find all the content that'd need different tags. And the "issue" of different human beings writing the content is still there.
2. TF relevance. If you aren't noticing TFs adding and changing stuff in scenes then I don't know what to tell ya. I may agree they're not always as extreme as in CoC1, but it's most definitely there.
3. The roleplay specifically, I suppose I see what you mean, but also consider that fewer overall options (if indeed that is the case, it's been awhile since CoC1 for me) make for more time to put proper quality into the ones we do get. And as for justifying being Pure/corrupt, and the whole "why stop Kas"... Respectfully, have you... actually been reading the story and dialogue?

 

[valk42]

Tbh I lean towards the "give her a pussy" crowd but if there is one person I'd say is worth it would be Hethia, tho they have to tackle the PC shipping a Tsun with a DereDere

good choice actually but just the tits and hips nearly broke ryn mechanically so no pusspuss ever, the end

 

[Animalistic]

I just did not expect my relationship with Ryn only to be devalued to "Will you allow her to fuck you or not?"

It makes all her prior interactions feel cheap, reduces her supposed love for the champion to the same level of depth a guy has for their onahole and it is not even consistent in universe since, after just that one divergence, you can make Ryn be just your personal bottom. It does not even fully commit to the concept that "it is bottom or bust" considering that champion does not even need to be penetrated for her to be happy apparently. Just for them to be present which, ey, if you are into, go for it.

In the end, her want to use it to me never correlated to her love for us. Same as Arona. This whole situation devalues her whole romantic arc and makes Aronas (which had a lesser build up) feel more welcoming and inclusive.

 

[Melancholy Man]

Vag was vetoed on the simple basis that Ryn already is nearly broken code-wise with her existing transform parsers and stuff, it would just be too much. Not to mention all of the scenes that need to be drastically rewritten..

Yeah, I absolutely get this aspect so I'm not going to grind about it too much, it's a scoff on what is the gold standard for companions in this game.

she's your girl

Yes I too share my girl with my friends and the city, I like but let's be real get off it, man

even when she has similar insane needs as Brienne does

differences are in the detail bro, finish the comparison bro

 

[Revenant]

Sigh The problem is not the scenes where you bottom for her, but that interactions are gated behind it, people to this day complain about Kiyoko and with your guys logic, just go get a dick and fuck her in the name of love since it's just a little concession you have to do for her to love you.

Other characters like mentioned before don't deny you of relationship development or emotional talk if you don't let them fuck you(unless they are presented like that from the very beginning), even though you know since day 1 they have a dick and like to use it yet you choose not to let them fuck you with their dick like Kas and Arona to give some examples.

Just because some of you have no problem getting dicked, enjoy it or been waiting for it since the start does not mean everyone should just accep it when Ryn was not presented as someone whose emotional development was dependent on whether she fucks our ass or not.

To point this out, I always knew Ryn would get scenes where you bottom and I'm ok with that since all I had to do was what I do with every other scene I don't particulary like from any character, I ignore it's existence and carry on with those I do enjoy.

 

[Melancholy Man]

1. The pc was inconsistent as hell in CoC1, as it still is to a degree in CoC2, yes. This comes with the territory when there's multiple writers, multiple different types of content, and multiple "personalities" for the pc. Adding perks here and there to gate content will do little but make it harder to access said content, and other content you may be interested in but don't know what perks you'd need. Not to mention the absolute mess of coding and things to pay attention to it'd add, you'd need a spreadsheet to be able to find all the content that'd need different tags. And the "issue" of different human beings writing the content is still there.

There was little inconsistency character-wise, so you'd have to name an example for me. I think there should be a bit more structure to handling the writers, it seems from the outside looking in freeform and then they edit the pieces to fit. It would require the programmer and director to be meticulous but that's better than just having everything thrown about, as they did with the first, and with some time maybe when they can see the end in sight they run over the whole game to iron out the flaws.

2. TF relevance. If you aren't noticing TFs adding and changing stuff in scenes then I don't know what to tell ya. I may agree they're not always as extreme as in CoC1, but it's most definitely there.

you gotta give me some examples where content is added, not the copy-paste surface-level acknowledgments but actual content. I gave you some and I can give you more because Coc1 has a lot of them.

3. The roleplay specifically, I suppose I see what you mean, but also consider that fewer overall options (if indeed that is the case, it's been awhile since CoC1 for me) make for more time to put proper quality into the ones we do get. And as for justifying being Pure/corrupt, and the whole "why stop Kas"... Respectfully, have you... actually been reading the story and dialogue?

Explain, what you mean.

 

[PuppyPrincess]

Sigh The problem is not the scenes where you bottom for her, but that interactions are gated behind it, people to this day complain about Kiyoko and with your guys logic, just go get a dick and fuck her in the name of love since it's just a little concession you have to do for her to love you.

Sliiiiight distinction in that you specifically need a dick/magic-dick for Kiyoko so it requires you to actively have specific equipment, The equivalent logic with Ryn would be her requiring the champ to have a vagina/magic vagina and I'm pretty sure she's happy to bone your butt =P

Ryn already has the equipment, was always going to be able to use it eventually & doesn't require the champ to alter themselves physicially to access the content.

Having said all that, I totally get some people don't like penetration for w/e reason.

 

[Resawar]

Not to get embroiled too deeply in this whole conversation but I'd like to point out that "getting railed up the ass" was not normal for Ryn prior to meeting the champ and is only "normal" because she's literally unable to use her dick. Depending on her libido she might have grown to love getting railed but that doesn't mean she suddenly wouldn't want to equally use her dick if she could. I wouldn't have even considered that people would complain that Ryn would like to use her dick when it was free, there is nothing in her content that suggests she wouldn't want to use it if possible.

So to me it sounds like 'certain people' completely ignored a big part of Ryn's character/story if they reduced her to elf buttslut. Also not directed at you or anyone in particular but I do wonder if some people who expected Ryn to never use her dick overlap with those who are desperate for her to trade her D for a V.

I would like to say I meant normal interaction for a good 70%ish of the player base which involve using her ass as accessed from her sex menu in a noncorrupt fashion.

Though I would like to argue that what ever the champ does to her is her new normal. Even if you blame her libido as if she can't grow naturally to enjoy more things such as taking it up the bum, she seems to just enjoy having the champ be with her to do things. If we are talking her normal prior to meeting the champ I could hardly call any of that conductive to a "normal" life.

 

[Revenant]

Sliiiiight distinction in that you specifically need a dick/magic-dick for Kiyoko so it requires you to actively have specific equipment, The equivalent logic with Ryn would be her requiring the champ to have a vagina/magic vagina and I'm pretty sure she's happy to bone your butt =P

Ryn already has the equipment, was always going to be able to use it eventually & doesn't require the champ to alter themselves physicially to access the content.

Having said all that, I totally get some people don't like penetration for w/e reason.

They are the same because they have relationship interactions gated behind choices that make some uncomfortable to take, some not and others be uncomfortable of the choice but go trough it anyway in some way for the character to accept them.

If you want to nitpick next you are going to tell me they are not the same because Ryn is a half sex frost elf and Kiyoko a female kitsune.

 

[Tide Hunter]

While in Coc2 there really is no reason to full-on hate or even Rival Kas, She not only saves you and Cait but ASK's IF you want to fuck, she's just another superpower looking to establish themselves in a similar way to the other powers in the Marshes have done.

Kas literally points at you and declares that she's going to steal your soul, and the only reason why she hasn't done it already is because she wants us to get stronger to make the soul more juicy and useful for her.

 

[Melancholy Man]

I never said she was innocent. I said there's no point in hating her or rivalry; Her declaring that is a hostile move but that doesn't mean death is onsight. She's civilized and diplomatic. She's a gangster moving into new territory; that doesn't justify her actions but we understand the motive and nature of her actions.

 

[PuppyPrincess]

They are the same because they have relationship interactions gated behind choices that make some uncomfortable to take, some not and others be uncomfortable of the choice but go trough it anyway in some way for the character to accept them.

If you want to nitpick next you are going to tell me they are not the same because Ryn is a half sex frost elf and Kiyoko a female kitsune.

Personally I think there's a distinction between a requirement of having specific physical characteristics (having specific equipment) and simply allowing an act (penetration) regardless of physical equipment but that's just me.

And I'm not going to bother with getting into an argument if we're going straight into "Well next you're going to tell me". It's pointless and we won't get anywhere so have a good day/night.

I would like to say I meant normal interaction for a good 70%ish of the player base which involve using her ass as accessed from her sex menu in a noncorrupt fashion.

Though I would like to argue that what ever the champ does to her is her new normal. Even if you blame her libido as if she can't grow naturally to enjoy more things such as taking it up the bum, she seems to just enjoy having the champ be with her to do things. If we are talking her normal prior to meeting the champ I could hardly call any of that conductive to a "normal" life.

Once we get into 'guestimating' player base and interactions with content I think we'll be at an impasse xD.

My point around the normal stuff is that Ryn's own dialogue tells us she never had an issue with her dick so players deciding she's only there for buttstuff is on them and I'm surprised people are shocked/caught of guard/against her wanting to use her dick, even in a one-off event, if they like her character.

I suppose I personally find it odd that people can be so invested in Ryn's character/romance that they're bothered by her wanting to use her dick but also would rather not interact with a part of her body that she's always had.

Anyway that's my two cents on the general topic.

 

[Melancholy Man]

I suppose I personally find it odd that people can be so invested in Ryn's character/romance that they're bothered by her wanting to use her dick but also would rather not interact with a part of her body that she's always had.

Let's acknowledge one fact, the majority of the player are men or dick-havers, she comes across as very feminine throughout her dialogue and rarely shows interest outside of the PC other than El and Hethia. Yes, it comes out of left field to have someone you'd usually be dicking down to just say "hey I wanna fu$k in the a$$", context matters but it really should've been foreshadowed.

 

[Ossa]

I'd like to think it was probably foreshadowed by the fact that Ryn had never had buttsex before, is doing so only because it's her sole means of getting off regardless of how much she's grown to like it, and her primary equipment remains, as it ever was, her dick.