Your gripes with CoC II

[MarcoPolo121]

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Rather than respond to any of your eye-bleeding wall of text posts, Imma direct you to this video.

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Now, moving on...

I confess, as someone who wasn't big on Berwyn before this switch up, I'm not super jazzed about what they ended up doing myself. Not that it was bad per sé, but I think way too much thought was put into this confusing and annoying dungeon and not enough into making the actual content of Berwyn/Wynne's sex scenes line up in quality or even quantity to the original. A dungeon is a temporary experience, permanent NPCs and their associated sex scenes are usually forever. If you can only focus on one or the other, always choose the latter.

Also the post-dungeon interactions for Berwyn/Wynne are exactly the same as Matiha's apart from individual sex scenes. I don't want to accuse anyone of anything but I don't think much of it.

Also also, apparently there were plans for a pussied Berwyn/Wynne to be impregnable and I'm disappointed they're not. Minor complaint but still.

Finally, the handling of Matiha herself seems slightly weighted towards keeping her in the tower and reconciling her with Berwyn/Wynne since otherwise she either disappears or just sits around our keep not really doing anything. I had hoped Matiha's presence there would let us get a discount or even freebie on Wayfort Upgrades from having an in-house wizard but, guess not.

Anyway, I personally place most of the blame for this not on anyone actually involved with this sendoff but the character's original writer, whose departure made this necessary. Maybe that's not fair of me to say, but cause and effect says all of this happened because of the departure.

 

[Zackflame]

Rather than respond to any of your eye-bleeding wall of text posts, Imma direct you to this video.

----

Now, moving on...

I confess, as someone who wasn't big on Berwyn before this switch up, I'm not super jazzed about what they ended up doing myself. Not that it was bad per sé, but I think way too much thought was put into this confusing and annoying dungeon and not enough into making the actual content of Berwyn/Wynne's sex scenes line up in quality or even quantity to the original. A dungeon is a temporary experience, permanent NPCs and their associated sex scenes are usually forever. If you can only focus on one or the other, always choose the latter.

Also the post-dungeon interactions for Berwyn/Wynne are exactly the same as Matiha's apart from individual sex scenes. I don't want to accuse anyone of anything but I don't think much of it.

Also also, apparently there were plans for a pussied Berwyn/Wynne to be impregnable and I'm disappointed they're not. Minor complaint but still.

Finally, the handling of Matiha herself seems slightly weighted towards keeping her in the tower and reconciling her with Berwyn/Wynne since otherwise she either disappears or just sits around our keep not really doing anything. I had hoped Matiha's presence there would let us get a discount or even freebie on Wayfort Upgrades from having an in-house wizard but, guess not.

Anyway, I personally place most of the blame for this not on anyone actually involved with this sendoff but the character's original writer, whose departure made this necessary. Maybe that's not fair of me to say, but cause and effect says all of this happened because of the departure.

This topic is already dead, let it rot in peace

 

[Alypia]

To be perfectly frank with you, I also find it pretty amusing how "nooo you can't corrupt a holy relic" is the last straw when the champing can be so much worse specially as a DK,

One of the tricky things about this game is making it so that most of those things are plausibly deniable. And indeed, most of them are. Most of the things that the Champion can do with Kasyrra happen alone, and when they do not, it is remarked upon. Most of the things that the Champion can do to corrupt people and things can plausibly described as accidental. When they are not, it's bad, and reflects poorly on the NPCs who act out of character in accepting it.

Obviously it'd be even worse if Sanders or the like could learn about Champ, say, corrupting the hive, yeah. But they can't (yet). And since the overwhelming majority of corrupt stuff that Champ gets into with general knowledge can be written off as "Champ's a slut" rather than "Champ's a monster", you don't have as much to explain away.

to be honest how boring the pure dawnsword is made me pick the ring over it, what do you mean corrupt champs get the super awesome living sword and I get a sad broken thing that doesn't even do anything special

Even if its special ability isn't great compared to the one on the corrupt Dawnsword, it's not "sad" or "broken" and is part of one of the most frequently used weapon combos in the game right now (Pure Dawnsword and Sanctified Gladius). That special ability is also getting a buff in the next Balak pass.

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What I don't understand is why this is a problem for anybody? Having Sanders (and, optionally, Liaden) talk about Lumia purifying it isn't about "taking away the corrupt Dawnsword", it's about ensuring that Sanders and Lia and Lumia stay true to their established characters as NPCs while still enabling the player to have their corrupted artifact if they would like to. Y'all are mistaking the damage control necessary to make sure corrupt players can get what they want for an attempt to take away what corrupt players want.

If you want your corrupted artifact, you can get your corrupted artifact. Just be a Dark Knight when you run through the quest and then, in the event that you end up having a chat with Lumia, don't bring the corrupted Dawnsword along. It's not hard.

 

[WolframL]

I mean, you are still willingly using a corrupt artifact no matter what. Similar to that one eyed helmet you can find in Gweyr quest. So that does not really the best, you know, justification.

There is a distinct difference between 'I could not purify it but I might as well use it rather than let it gather dust' compared to 'I purified it, then I fucked it up again'. One can easily be explained, the other cannot. And it's not like the characters know how the gameplay mechanics work, so they don't have any reason to know that the sword stayed the way you found it because you had a 75+ Corruption score without being a sweet bean.

Also, if the sword is so easy to purify, why is not the champion being chastised for keeping a holy relic corrupt?

See above, the characters do not know how it happens. We know how it happens because it's the way the game writes it. CoC2 characters are not sans from Undertale with the ability to work out the existence of potential alternate world states.

Still, Lumia sending anyone seems unlikely. She did squat when Kas right in front of her

You mean, aside from personally intervening when the reality-breaking monster came through the portal?

 

[MarcoPolo121]

This topic is already dead, let it rot in peace

Gladly. It's just that post was sitting in my drafts all day and I neglected to get it out when the response was fresh. Ah well.

 

[wery12345]

You mean, aside from personally intervening when the reality-breaking monster came through the portal?

What do you mean Kas romancing people continue to ignore that for when they start a argument involving her?

 

[Kingu2]

If you want your corrupted artifact, you can get your corrupted artifact. Just be a Dark Knight when you run through the quest and then, in the event that you end up having a chat with Lumia, don't bring the corrupted Dawnsword along. It's not hard.

What? Are you telling me that if I go to talk to Lumia with the corr. Dawnsword equipped or in my inventory she's just going to automatically purify it? That's annoying. Why can't I have it on me and just not bring it up? Like you do with the transference orb.

 

[Animalistic]

There is a distinct difference between 'I could not purify it but I might as well use it rather than let it gather dust' compared to 'I purified it, then I fucked it up again'. One can easily be explained, the other cannot. And it's not like the characters know how the gameplay mechanics work, so they don't have any reason to know that the sword stayed the way you found it because you had a 75+ Corruption score without being a sweet bean.

See above, the characters do not know how it happens. We know how it happens because it's the way the game writes it. CoC2 characters are not sans from Undertale with the ability to work out the existence of potential alternate world states.

You mean, aside from personally intervening when the reality-breaking monster came through the portal?

Well, you are still using a corrupt artifact. If I remember right, Liaden or someone is still aware that there is something wrong with the sword, and for champion to continuely use it in its corrupt form is kind of a red flag. It was used by an incubus after all.
But honestly, I would rather if they removed the ability to purify the sword than to give the champ a way to corrupt it. It gives consequences to your prior actions which is something that I always appreaciated. Having a corrupt character with pure sword just seems silly. Also, having it only be a one way street kind feels like punishing corrupt players for not being corrupt enough during a quest yet making it OK for supposedly pure players to fix their mistake.

And Lumia did let Kas go and I do not thing that the champion is ever going to be as a dangerous as her. So I see no reason for her to sent bunch of hitmen on us. Her people would probably do it themselves tho.

 

[Rudra72]

I think there should be a way to boost the power of the Dawnsword, all things said tho

As it stands, it feels like a punishment for being a non-corrupt player in that quest

 

[luciel1331]

I think there should be a way to boost the power of the Dawnsword, all things said tho

As it stands, it feels like a punishment for being a non-corrupt player in that quest

Isn't Dawnsword one of the best weapons? Also, one of the best dual wielding that worked for me in-game was Dawnsword+Sanctified Gladius or Dawnsword + Chrysanthemum Petal. Can't do the 1st option if you're DK champ thought. Also Alypia mentioned: Even if its special ability isn't great compared to the one on the corrupt Dawnsword ....That special ability is also getting a buff in the next Balak pass.
So I guess that ability will be improved and in turn buff pure dawnsword.

 

[WolframL]

Well, you are still using a corrupt artifact. If I remember right, Liaden or someone is still aware that there is something wrong with the sword, and for champion to continuely use it in its corrupt form is kind of a red flag. It was used by an incubus after all.

Again, the thing here is plausible deniability. Aly already went over this. You found the sword in a corrupted state, so it is infinitely more plausible that nobody will bat an eye if you can't purify it and keep using it (because they don't know what caused the corruption in the first place, or what it takes to un-corrupt it) than it is that you somehow fixed the sword, then fucked it up again and nobody will find this odd.

And Lumia did let Kas go and I do not thing that the champion is ever going to be as a dangerous as her.

She let her go because she was busy dealing with the reality-eating Lovecraftian abomination, you know, priorities and all.

I think there should be a way to boost the power of the Dawnsword, all things said tho

As Aly already mentioned, Balak is taking a look at that for the next combat rebalance.

 

[Kingu2]

She let her go because she was busy dealing with the reality-eating Lovecraftian abomination, you know, priorities and all.

What about when the abomination doesn't come through the portal? or anytime after it's been dealt with? Or best of all why didn't Lumia deal with Kas before she let eldritch nighttmare into the world? This argument is incredibly flimsy.

 

[wery12345]

What about when the abomination doesn't come through the portal? or anytime after it's been dealt with? Or best of all why didn't Lumia deal with Kas before she let eldritch nighttmare into the world? This argument is incredibly flimsy.

Do I need to explain how the gods want to interfere as least as they possibly can, they don't want people to become reliant on them fixing the problem.

 

[Acharehnus]

I think it's more that most of them are apathetic and ineffective.

Mallach flat out tells you the outcome of the struggle doesn't concern him, he'll be entertained regardless. I imagine he doesn't find his death that entertaining though in all the bad ends where the gods are wiped out. Or maybe he finds it hysterical, depends how he meets his end I guess.

 

[Kingu2]

Do I need to explain how the gods want to interfere as least as they possibly can, they don't want people to become reliant on them fixing the problem.

Okay, if that's the excuse then lets stick to it. Let's not act like Lumia would ever attack Kas or the Champ for any reason. It would be a very hard sell to get people to buy that Lumia would go after the champ and not Kas or that the only thing stopping her from doing something about kas was some eldritch horror. If she's not doing anything about Kas then she's not doing anything about a corrupt champ who is significantly less of a threat.

 

[Zackflame]

You could just explain that the dawn sword was not fully purified hence making it revert back to it corrupted state when it became self aware

 

[SomeNobody]

Everything in regards to the writing related to the "gods" of this game is a complete mess.

 

[WolframL]

Let's not act like Lumia would ever attack Kas or the Champ for any reason.

Mallach straight-up tells Kas that they're not intervening because they're mildly interested in what she's doing and she hasn't crossed the line... yet. He makes it clear that if she does, she'll have to deal with a war with all of the Seven, and their followers. It's not at all a subtle threat that yes, they will intervene directly if they absolutely have to. However, as Savin has already pointed out on the forums, one reason they don't like direct intervention and prefer to work through intermediaries is that the gods whose portfolio includes smiting don't really have any setting between 'off' and 'massive collateral damage'.

It would be a very hard sell to get people to buy that Lumia would go after the champ and not Kas

If you're in a situation where the game memetically Bad Ends you for being a murderhobo, you're probably in a situation where one of the gods will smite Kas too, offscreen. Y'know, like they threaten to.

 

[Zackflame]

Speaking about gods, Savin made it clear that the champion will never become one. But doesn't that make Kas goal to harvest the champion's soul when they are as strong or stronger than her mean they become more powerful than kas. Making them to acquire powers that may rival or be as close to that of the seven when they become soulless.

 

[Kingu2]

Mallach straight-up tells Kas that they're not intervening because they're mildly interested in what she's doing and she hasn't crossed the line... yet. He makes it clear that if she does, she'll have to deal with a war with all of the Seven, and their followers. It's not at all a subtle threat that yes, they will intervene directly if they absolutely have to. However, as Savin has already pointed out on the forums, one reason they don't like direct intervention and prefer to work through intermediaries is that the gods whose portfolio includes smiting don't really have any setting between 'off' and 'massive collateral damage'.

If you're in a situation where the game memetically Bad Ends you for being a murderhobo, you're probably in a situation where one of the gods will smite Kas too, offscreen. Y'know, like they threaten to.

Who's talking about being a murderhobo? what I'm saying is whatever logic you apply for them not going after Kas you would apply that same logic for them not going after the Champ. And you're telling me that letting an extra-dimensional potentially world destroying nightmare entity into existence( after of course conquering an entire kingdom and wreaking total havoc across the region) isn't crossing the line. But corrupting a holy sword to give it a slight damage boost is taking too far.

Again, hard sell.

 

[WolframL]

Speaking about gods, Savin made it clear that the champion will never become one. But doesn't that make Kas goal to harvest the champion's soul when they are as strong or stronger than her mean they become more powerful than kas. Making them to acquire powers that may rival or be as close to that of the seven when they become soulless.

The fact that your soul is magically interesting doesn't mean that you're more powerful than Kasyrra or the Seven. That you're more mutable and pick things up faster is partially a handwave for gameplay mechanics (ie, why TFs work so much more readily for you than the average person and why most people don't become chimaeras just by eating the wrong foods) but it also means your soul is a bit different from average, and Kas hopes that might be what it takes to solve her desire for a true child. Alternatively, it might just be the key to returning her to a human form without killing her personality. That your soul might be different enough to do these things doesn't make you stronger, it's more like having a specialized tool to accomplish a task versus being able to brute-force it.

Who's talking about being a murderhobo?

It's called an example, since a lot of the pissing and moaning seems to boil down to 'I wanna be a Saturday morning cartoon villain but the game won't let me!'.

And you're telling me that letting an extra-dimensional potentially world destroying nightmare entity into existence( after of course conquering an entire kingdom and wreaking total havoc across the region) isn't crossing the line. But corrupting a holy sword to give it a slight damage boost is taking too far.

You're getting lost in the weeds here. As Aly said in the post that started this whole damned tangent, it's not the sword itself so much as it being the catalyst for someone to start looking more closely at the bad things a DK champ can do and deciding to, y'know, put a stop to it. Right now, most of the Bad Things happen in isolation or they can be plausibly brushed off as an accident. Re-corrupting a previously purified holy relic is an example of the kind of thing that might just make people take notice and realize 'Hey, pc.name is actually kind of suspicious, maybe we should investigate!'. And I brought up Lumia sending in a valkyrie as, again, an example of how that might play out.

 

[Kingu2]

You're getting lost in the weeds here. As Aly said in the post that started this whole damned tangent, it's not the sword itself so much as it being the catalyst for someone to start looking more closely at the bad things a DK champ can do and deciding to, y'know, put a stop to it. Right now, most of the Bad Things happen in isolation or they can be plausibly brushed off as an accident. Re-corrupting a previously purified holy relic is an example of the kind of thing that might just make people take notice and realize 'Hey, pc.name is actually kind of suspicious, maybe we should investigate!'. And I brought up Lumia sending in a valkyrie as, again, an example of how that might play out.

Okay sure, but that's not to say they would necessarily find anything. You can still have max corruption without actually corrupting or killing anyone or anything and having sex with demons isn't exactly grounds for execution.

 

[Zackflame]

One thing that bugs me out is the fact that the game makes your wings useless in certain situations specially in quests like high ground and ring of fate( correct me if am wrong).

 

[wery12345]

As its explained to Azy during high ground, they dont know how deep it is, they wouldnt want to risk getting tiered.

 

[Zackflame]

As its explained to Azy during high ground, they dont know how deep it is, they wouldnt want to risk getting tiered.

Since when does a bird feel tired from gliding. All we had to do was tie the rope and graciously fall

 

[Kyubi Xiaolong]

Since when does a bird feel tired from gliding. All we had to do was tie the rope and graciously fall

two things, birds are not human size and weight, second hold your arms out straight for a minute, tell that is not tiring

 

[Kingu2]

two things, birds are not human size and weight, second hold your arms out straight for a minute, tell that is not tiring

about those two things. the various flying races ingame are human size and weight and standing while holding your arms out straight isn't the same as falling with your arms out straight especially when when you have an air current pushing up on them.

 

[CitrusWolf]

Even if its special ability isn't great compared to the one on the corrupt Dawnsword, it's not "sad" or "broken" and is part of one of the most frequently used weapon combos in the game right now (Pure Dawnsword and Sanctified Gladius). That special ability is also getting a buff in the next Balak pass.

maybe because all other unique one-handed weapons for non corrupt PC also are sad and lousy? like I get it you enjoy lumia a lot and don't wanna corrupt her stuff so just say its because no one wants to write it instead of trying to lore gate it

edit: I misremembered the number of one handed weapons, now it makes even more sense since there is very little unique one handed to start with and they are all bad

 

[zagzig]

I will say that one of the most likely outcomes with the still ongoing combat rebalance is that any item which is notably better than others in its slot (say, the Corrupted Dawnsword) is they're gonna get nerfed hard. So this problem may be solved, just in the opposite direction than you're thinking.

 

[CitrusWolf]

I will say that one of the most likely outcomes with the still ongoing combat rebalance is that any item which is notably better than others in its slot (say, the Corrupted Dawnsword) is they're gonna get nerfed hard. So this problem may be solved, just in the opposite direction than you're thinking.

I'd be fine with this since it makes it feel that non DK champs get the short end of the stick in cool weapons wise, first I get punished for not wanting a penis and then I get punished by not liking to play asshole cham, what a wonderful world