Your gripes with CoC II

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Wint3rRyd3r

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This doesn't make any sense my other two teammates are still up why can't they finish the fight? Also why can't teammates use items?

I've always hated that mechanic in games. I doubt most companions would surrender to the giant rape horse or horny guard captain given what the outcome would be. Plus like Tide said, all those restoring items and ultimate kinda lose their point when the player going down auto loses the fight.

button meme 1.jpg
 

SH60

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You know in Persona 3, 4, and 5 they had the "if the MC dies its game over" thing but with those games the other party members can use items. So if say the MC is about to die and i'm on a teammate who doesn't have healing spells they can use a item to heal the MC and save them from death. Why can't it be the same here?
 

Shrike675

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You know in Persona 3, 4, and 5 they had the "if the MC dies its game over" thing but with those games the other party members can use items. So if say the MC is about to die and i'm on a teammate who doesn't have healing spells they can use a item to heal the MC and save them from death. Why can't it be the same here?
"Mitsuru please heal me I'm about to die."

"MARIN FUCKIN' KARIN!"

Jokes aside its probably a limitation of the AI for Coc2. Not to mention that they can't account for whatever items the player will bring with them. (Hence why the start of the quest advises you to come prepared.) Of course, there's always the option of directly controlling controlling party, which was only added after enough people complained if I recall correctly.
 
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Tide Hunter

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Also a note, Cait's ultimate, Devotion, is a revive. It revives an ally, providing 25% of their health and 100 resolve. This, however, isn't really good in my opinion, because the Champ going down instantly ends an encounter, and Cait can't exactly use it on herself. So that means it's only useful if your third party member is the first to go down, and also goes down due to resolve since the hp factor is so small.

Yet, another problem with it is that I'm fairly certain the 100 resolve thing was intended to essentially be a full restore, a +resolve counterpart to the White Mage's Revive, which restores 25 resolve and 100% health. The thing is, level 5 (and ultimates) were added in December of 2019, while the current Resolve system (where resolve scales with stats rather than being static) was created in December of 2020. So now 100 resolve is much less than a full restore- heck, on some of my champs, that's less than half. Not that that matters too much, given that it can't be used on the champ, but for other party members it's still far from a full resolve heal. Given how the game currently is, Devotion is pretty bad. It's a small hp heal, and impartial resolve heal, and can only be used on whatever party member is 1: not the pc, and 2: not Cait. It's still a revive, but it's so much worse than Revive, even though they're applied to different situations.
I've always hated that mechanic in games. I doubt most companions would surrender to the giant rape horse or horny guard captain given what the outcome would be. Plus like Tide said, all those restoring items and ultimate kinda lose their point when the player going down auto loses the fight.
You know in Persona 3, 4, and 5 they had the "if the MC dies its game over" thing but with those games the other party members can use items. So if say the MC is about to die and i'm on a teammate who doesn't have healing spells they can use a item to heal the MC and save them from death. Why can't it be the same here?
Addendum, I'm an idiot. Just tested it, and, well, the champ can get revived.
Revive.png
Cait can use Devotion on the player if you fall while she's in the party, and also if you have the revive item (The Kaelirra Tears), you can use it to revive yourself. Though of course Revive can't be used on yourself, which I can see because that character was a White Mage and had Revive.

I still stand by Devotion being much worse than Revive, in terms of its mechanical effects, and also I think that your companions should still be able to fight after you get knocked down rather than being an instaloss if you lack a revival option, since the fact that the champion going down instantly looses makes Tank builds much less viable because, while Atugia or Azzy or Arona going down doesn't make you loose, you tanking for the party can make your loss even faster.
 

SH60

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Really playing as a tank champion is hell in the early and mid game because of how easy it is to get knockdown and stunned and the lack of ways to revive. And the fact that both of your healers are stuck with the base heal and can't get the better great heal at higher levels.
 
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Wint3rRyd3r

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Addendum, I'm an idiot. Just tested it, and, well, the champ can get revived.
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I am embarrassed to admit but I forgot about that too and I got that screen from the Kas fight. In my defense, I'm an illiterate loot gremlin that raises her numbers up to prevent losing. Not to humble brag, but I don't usually lose unless intentionally to see a bad end. Usually. Stupid sexy Kas and her stupid sexy powers with good synergy.

Although griping about the player losing auto-failing the fight still stands. I don't see why the companions can't continue, just maybe without orders being an option. It's better than everyone apparently going unconscious when the player does.
 

Tide Hunter

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I won't respond to the whole thing, I'd started before and was three quotes deep before I ended up deleting the response on accident, so I'll just focus in.
In the interim it may seem punitive, sure, but I'd argue that the Disarmed Combat Effect is much better than the Stunned Combat Effect, because you actually have options (even if you don't see it as such).
Of course. I talked about how I liked stunned more than disarmed, despite how, factually, stunned is much worse for the player, aside from how stunned/prone gives immunity to being re-afflicted after you get hit by it. The presentation feels less painful to go through. S/P just moves past with little note, while disarmed flaunts itself in your face.
I'd argue that it would only be "weak enough [to not have] much of an impact" if there wasn't party diversity to bridge that gap. You have access to Bimbo set Azzy, Dancer set Cait and Base set Quin.
If you're playing as a Physical damaging PC, I'd argue that having inclusion for every damage type would make sense for a typical party composition (specifically because of how prevalent / powerful Resolve damage is in this game). That way even if your Physical damaging PC was Disarmed, they'd be able to synergize with your Resolve damaging Companion by using Tease attacks (assuming it's not an encounter with an NPC that's immune to Resolve damage), and actually feel as though the specific Tease attacks were actually resulting in something instead of just feeling "useless".
Why split up the party composition like that? If my third member is a tank, that's a benefit to the party. If the third member is a resolve damage dealer, then all the damage they do has absolutely no impact on what the rest of the party does unless the resolve damage dealer takes someone down, while doing hp damage (both physical and magical) allows all three to pile on their power and get things done faster.
I'd argue that it's not "practically nothing" though, because in the event that one was Stunned for 3 turns in a row (assuming RNG like that exists in the first place), one would take full damage over all 3 of those turns. However, if one was Disarmed instead for 3 turns and Defended for all 3 of those turns, they'd have taken reduced damage for the duration - definitely seems a bit better than being unable to take action (as when Stunned).
That's literally impossible in the game at present. The game makes you stun and prone immune for, I think, two turns, whenever you get hit by one of them, and they only last for one turn, as far as I can tell. The next turn after getting stunned/knocked prone is spent recovering, but the turn after will always allow you to take an action, as you can not be inflicted with either until after that turn.
Also, it's much more likely to be disarmed for three turns, considering that Master Whisper has access to Aim: Weapon, a ranged ability which inflicts Disarmed for 3 turns, while, again, I'm fairly certain stun can only last for one turn.
And whilst your first hand experiences with Defending might result in you thinking it's "useless", you have to admit that you'd take sufficiently less damage than if your PC was Stunned, yes?
Sufficiently less for what? If I have a competent healer and am not extremely overwhelmed such that I need to halve the damage or I will die, the end result would be the same: Either I wouldn't take damage and defending was useless, or I do take damage and the healer uses their next turn to heal my back up.
Your prior complaints could somewhat be negated with items such as the Leananstone and the Ley-crystal Grenade. Because even though the Ley-crystal Grenade is rather difficult to come by, it still does Health damage, and whilst Leananstone adds Cunning and Willpower to its damage, it also allows for one to deal Health damage (and is directly purchasable from the start of the game; from Ivris).
So in that regard, your PC would still be capable of dealing damage, even though it'd be a different damage type (Magical damage), at reduced damage, I'd imagine it'd be somewhat comparative to a "enemy desperation attack" in any case.
Yes. Ley-crystal grenades are really bad at, like, level 6, because cleave is severely outdamaging it, but if you're disarmed and use one it's still going to be a lot more damage than no damage. And the Leananstone does fit the role, honestly. Yeah, those two items do counter it, I suppose, even though the Leanan for a non-split type and non-thief weapon user will be pretty low, but still surprisingly nice for the situation. I'd still rather we be able to punch someone while disarmed, rather than chucking explosives, but it's something.
But I do disagree with your consistent assertions of Physical damaging PCs being "useless" when disarmed, as seen in the above - there are objectively other options, you just have to change the way you see them.
Probably, yeah? I never really consider consumables but they are an option while disarmed. Also, in regards to Tease, it may still be somewhat useful for a disarmed pc to use it. Especially considering my Thief, who was the super-strong physical damage dealer. Strong enough to straight up one-shot a Wraith-Touched Chimera, with no buffs from allies. That's largely due to the crit-focused build, and it just so happens that crits apply to teases as well. Also the Thief uses sexiness/temptation undergarments and uses the Royal Leathers, armor which itself gives 20 sexiness. And the end result of that is that she can semi-consistently put out 140 damage teases, despite being focused on dealing physical damage. That is, of course, a lot, but I generally don't use it except against the Slimes in the Valley.
 
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WolframL

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Needs more handholding.
I don't think I've found any proper handholding from anyone so far, and I've tried kinda hard to look.
But that's so lewd.. :p

But really, there is a distinct lack of it that I can think of off the top of my head. I know that when you have Domrona and Cait in a threesome, the sex menu threesome features hand-holding while the two of you service Arona and the field scene when Arona comes down with the horni has the two of you holding hands while Arona rails you. There's also some handholding in Brint's date scene and similarly some in a few of Ryn's Winter City sightseeing events; I'd be very surprised if Alypia didn't write some more hand-holding into Ryn's sleep scenes. There's probably more that I'm forgetting but those are the ones that spring immediately to mind.
 
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Wint3rRyd3r

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The undermountain will be the death of me. Hordes of hobgoblins that are suspiciously powerful for level 4 enemies, tanky imps that apparently care for other imps and keep splitting damage, and those turbo buffed stone elementals. And since the only encounters so far seem to be enemies, it makes exploring or moving around a nightmare. The absolute second the proper waystones are added, I am never going into the undermountain again. The Chargers suck at their jobs. I'm probably gonna have to wait about this and the rift quests until the level cap is boosted so my stats can be better prepared. At least there are still rift skills I need to copy.
 
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SH60

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The undermountain will be the death of me. Hordes of hobgoblins that are suspiciously powerful for level 4 enemies, tanky imps that apparently care for other imps and keep splitting damage, and those turbo buffed stone elementals. And since the only encounters so far seem to be enemies, it makes exploring or moving around a nightmare. The absolute second the proper waystones are added, I am never going into the undermountain again. The Chargers suck at their jobs. I'm probably gonna have to wait about this and the rift quests until the level cap is boosted so my stats can be better prepared. At least there are still rift skills I need to copy.
Really because I think I resolve nuked both the hobgoblins and imps with my charmer champion.
 

Kingu2

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The undermountain will be the death of me. Hordes of hobgoblins that are suspiciously powerful for level 4 enemies, tanky imps that apparently care for other imps and keep splitting damage, and those turbo buffed stone elementals. And since the only encounters so far seem to be enemies, it makes exploring or moving around a nightmare. The absolute second the proper waystones are added, I am never going into the undermountain again. The Chargers suck at their jobs. I'm probably gonna have to wait about this and the rift quests until the level cap is boosted so my stats can be better prepared. At least there are still rift skills I need to copy.
agreed. right now it's not worth it to go down there even to farm. it's not that the enemies are that tough to where I have trouble beating them, it's just that the fights take so long because the imp shankers take so long to die and the goblins have way more party members than there supposed to, making fights that would would take 1-3 turns take 4-7. and like you said the lack of not combat encounters makes getting anywhere a pain in the ass.
 

Wint3rRyd3r

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Really because I think I resolve nuked both the hobgoblins and imps with my charmer champion.

I mainly use a warrior and occasionally a black mage so I don't really use tease combat. I don't have any reliable tease skills or stats for it and using dancer cait and bimbazzy will put me at a disadvantage unless I commit to becoming their healslut.

agreed. right now it's not worth it to go down there even to farm. it's not that the enemies are that tough to where I have trouble beating them, it's just that the fights take so long because the imp shankers take so long to die and the goblins have way more party members than there supposed to, making fights that would would take 1-3 turns take 4-7. and like you said the lack of not combat encounters makes getting anywhere a pain in the ass.

The enemies take so long to deal with and have no worthwhile drops. If they weren't all so tanky and hard to hit and so many it wouldn't be as bad. It's just combat, followed by combat, with a chaser of combat. I know it's early and more will be added and possibly rebalanced, but the enemy stats combined with being outnumbered makes it take too long to get anywhere. I'm beginning to think I need to put it and the rift off and pray that the next public patch includes the ability to raise my numbers.
 

Xenosium

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This one is a truly minor gripe, but what determines the Champion's race doesn't seem to be very accurate.

I was playing a Wyld Elf with cat eyes, got cow legs from barley tea, a minotaur shlong from Minoblood Wine, then an equine vagina from Kasyrra at the Palace of Ice.

Now my journal claims I'm a Centaur. I still only have two legs.
I only even noticed because after the Kasyrra encounter I got the Donut Steele achievement on Steam for changing my race.

Ultimately it has zero impact on my gameplay but it was still a confusing moment.
 

WolframL

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Caveat here that I don't know the ins and outs of the race code but I'm guessing that it's working as intended and you've just found an edge case. Your legs are digitigrade but the ones from Milk Tea are bovine, you don't have the other body traits that would make you a Marefolk (furred skin, muzzled face, equine ears/arms/legs), you're not a Minotaur (because you have a vagina) and you're not a Cowgirl (because you have a penis), hence it shunts you to Centaur.

Note that you will never get four legs in this game; 'taur and naga bodies aren't supported because it makes things so much easier when the writers don't have to account for those.
 

Xenosium

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I feel like Centaur shouldn't be in the player code then since having the four legged horse body is mandatory to BE a centaur.
Though considering the wacky stuff I had to go through to be classified as one, it's probably so buried it rarely comes up. It doesn't impact gameplay anyways.

I really just find it funny I was still called a Wyld Elf Hermaphrodite up until I got an equine vagina, THEN I became a centaur.
Why was the horse vagina the key factor in making me a centaur when it was the only horse trait I ever got?
 

WolframL

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I really just find it funny I was still called a Wyld Elf Hermaphrodite up until I got an equine vagina, THEN I became a centaur.
Why was the horse vagina the key factor in making me a centaur when it was the only horse trait I ever got?
You also have a horse penis, which means two traits that put you in the 'something equine' category (neither of which is your Wyld Mark) and that was probably enough to bump you out of the parameters for 'Elf', but for the reasons I mentioned you have traits that disqualify you from any of the more obvious classifications. Like I said, it's probably an edge case.
 

Tide Hunter

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you're not a Minotaur (because you have a vagina) and you're not a Cowgirl (because you have a penis)
I can guarantee from personal experience that having both a cock and a pussy doesn't lock you out of being considered either. I had a character which had every cowgirl trait from Bovum Sherry, and also a massive horse schlong and balls from Mino Wine. The character was considered a cowgirl. However, I wanted the character to be a minotaur, since cowgirls can't upgrade strength on level up while minotaurs can. So I gave the character fur, and that was enough to shift her from being considered a cowgirl to being considered a minotaur.
 
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Xenosium

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There's probably going to be a handful of niche cases like mine since due to the nature of rampant transformations, you can easily turn yourself into a complete abomination that defies proper definition. I think my character most reasonably should be considered either still a Wyld Elf with a bottom half that just does its own thing, or a Cowgirl, because 2/3rds of my transformations were cow/bull lower halves.

My confusion came down to why Centaur ended up being chosen because as loose as the relation between Cowgirls and Minotaurs is (Is it a female Minotaur or its own thing), Centaurs mandate four legs. If the Champion can't even get four legs, why was it an option?

I'd be genuinely interested in seeing the part of the code that determines race just because it has to keep track of so many potential shenanigans.
 

Stupid_Goo

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Because chimaera are the abominations usually, and satyrs are more related to goats than cows or horses which is why you get labeled a centaur for some reason rather than... a satyr.
I have that issue a lot myself, when I don't want fuzzy Leothran nuts or a black Leothran twat so the game labels my PC a manticore despite not having the tail, wings or a mane.
 
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Xenosium

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Because chimaera are the abominations usually, and satyrs are more related to goats than cows or horses which is why you get labeled a centaur for some reason rather than... a satyr.
I have that issue a lot myself, when I don't want fuzzy Leothran nuts or a black Leothran twat so the game labels my PC a manticore despite not having the tail, wings or a mane.

Wouldn't I just be a Minotaur/Cowgirl or chimeric Wyld Elf then? For all intents and purposes I am a normal Wyld Elf from the waist up and a hermaphrodite cow from the waist down. Although, I don't think I have a tail either.

I don't normally touch transformations so dipping into all these crazy combos is entirely new ground for me. This happened on my side character, where I'm more liberal with messing around and don't care what happens to me.
 

GEESE

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I haven't had any difficulty with the undermountain, save for a single time where an elemental chained a stun into two crits. However, while the imp fight isnt hard, its super tedious; with a healer and up to three units that force damage to spread out while chaining disarming attacks on my only dps. The imps wont win, or even get close, but they will take 5 minutes of my time as my team slowly chips them all down.
Would be nice if there was a cooldown on being disarmed, like there is with stun or knockdowns, being forced to resort to switching a useful skill for a tail wack or something feels really bad.
 
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Squirrelwagon

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For all intents and purposes I am a normal Wyld Elf from the waist up and a hermaphrodite cow from the waist down.
That'd be why you're being counted as a Centaur, then; if you're (mostly) human or elfin from the waist up, but have specific traits from the waist down, then you're a non-tauric centaur. Which is a bit of mind bend, for sure, but I'm not sure what you call a being that's similar to a faun or satyr but has cow traits rather than goat/sheep traits, or even horse traits.
 

Xenosium

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But a Centaur is supposed to be a full, entire horse from the waist down. Not only am I missing two of the four legs, but most of my traits aren't even equine, they are bovine. A centaur without either a horse bottom or four legs just isn't a centaur.

I was going to say based on the classic definition of Minotaur, "Half human, half bull", that's what I should be, but that classic Greek example was also the TOP half of a bull and the lower half of a man, which is the inverse of what I have right now.

There are Wyld Elves in-game that have close to what I do, that is, a furry lower half or an equine penis.
 

Tide Hunter

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as loose as the relation between Cowgirls and Minotaurs is (Is it a female Minotaur or its own thing)
So, a fun thing about this game's lore is that there are two different minotaur types, along with their partners. The minotaurs we see in game are such that males are classic minotaurs, with muzzled faces and fur, except also they have bovine legs (but hey, the cowgirls do too). The cowgirls, however, are their female partners, and while they have bovine legs, tails, ears, and horns, they have a humanoid face rather than an anthro face. This is because of some interesting lore fuckery, where there are actually also female classical minotaurs, but they live south with cowboy-esque males, who have humanoid faces while the females have muzzles. Their ancestors basically just liked to fuck people with human faces rather than muzzles, so they split along the sexes, formed different nations, and their humanoid partners evolved/mixed with them to also have some bovine traits over time while still lacking muzzles.

But anyways, what we see in game, without looking at lore, are muzzled mino males and flat faced female cowgirls. In terms of the race parser, they're entirely different. As I mentioned, since the game ties what you can upgrade on level-up to race, and this changes if you change races, being a cowgirl (having mostly bovine traits, but lacking a muzzle, fur, and I guess also a horsecock) means different things can be upgraded than if you do have fur and a horsecock (one or two traits probably optional for determining what the game sees you as).
 
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Wint3rRyd3r

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Their ancestors basically just liked to fuck people with human faces rather than muzzles

Even the furry and anthro characters understand that muzzles aren't good.

Monster girls>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anthros
Brienne>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Brint

In short, reject furry and embrace people with animal features.
 

Xenosium

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I looked into the difference between cows and horses just to try and better understand my own conundrum.

What I found out is that bull penises look NOTHING like equine ones, to a significant degree. So apparently those minotaur ancestors also much preferred horsecock to the traditional "inject and get it done" bullcock. In fact, if I read the material right, bulls just stick it in, instantly nut, and then move on. When you give a female sapience and not just sentience I guess they don't find their boyfriend being a one-pump-chump to be very enjoyable.

I'd post the medical diagrams of the genitals but people can look it up on their own if they are interested in cow dicks.
 
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