This coming from a community of fox lovers that has 72+ Astral children out of wedlock.
Your gripes with CoC II
- Thread starter Narmlet
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Hi, minor gripe but the loot for Undermountain is underwhelming for some of the mobs. The imps are fine, I'm surprised that they give out so much while being able to be disposed of easily by most playstyles but I guess it would not be fair to lock out certain classes from being able to farm them. Like the cultist before them, they give a lot of gold but only a little more since they are more of a challenge to kill but somehow less of a threat.
But when we get to a similar mob rush design; hobgoblins, which gives 1/4th the electrum for being in my opinion, tougher if not more of an annoyance to deal with than the imps. My first thought was that this was for story reasons since they are dirt poor and have to turn to banditry to survive. If that is the case then we have to discuss how and more importantly; why wolves and elementals would carry around electrum. So I still don't see a reason why they are worth so little.
Next is the earth elemental, the biggest offender. Man, was I surprised when they wiped my team the first time I met them. Yeah, sure, I was on dark difficulty but he still does some nasty damage on normal without being as tanky. If we compare them, to what I'm assuming is its counterpart, the chimera. Both can take out a single unit easily, and that's fine if a bit unfair when it's you. The difference is that the earth elemental can do it to my whole team. If his frenzy + cleave does not kill your team, his frenzy + quake next turn will. And you know what, it's a damn good fight that made me actually start using powers and items I never thought I would use just to make it more survivable, BUT it somehow gives the same amount as the chimera? Even the final boss of the underwater dungeon was less of a threat than the elemental. The reason this is a gripe is that the glacial rift becomes a much less profitable place after you complete Gwyn's tasks leaving you forced to farm at the Undermountain if you want to make full use of your time, but it is a significantly more difficult place to farm than glacial rift and it essentially gives a similar amount of electrum. If you still need farm electrum you're better holding off on completing Gywn's last task and farming at the glacial rift.
But when we get to a similar mob rush design; hobgoblins, which gives 1/4th the electrum for being in my opinion, tougher if not more of an annoyance to deal with than the imps. My first thought was that this was for story reasons since they are dirt poor and have to turn to banditry to survive. If that is the case then we have to discuss how and more importantly; why wolves and elementals would carry around electrum. So I still don't see a reason why they are worth so little.
Next is the earth elemental, the biggest offender. Man, was I surprised when they wiped my team the first time I met them. Yeah, sure, I was on dark difficulty but he still does some nasty damage on normal without being as tanky. If we compare them, to what I'm assuming is its counterpart, the chimera. Both can take out a single unit easily, and that's fine if a bit unfair when it's you. The difference is that the earth elemental can do it to my whole team. If his frenzy + cleave does not kill your team, his frenzy + quake next turn will. And you know what, it's a damn good fight that made me actually start using powers and items I never thought I would use just to make it more survivable, BUT it somehow gives the same amount as the chimera? Even the final boss of the underwater dungeon was less of a threat than the elemental. The reason this is a gripe is that the glacial rift becomes a much less profitable place after you complete Gwyn's tasks leaving you forced to farm at the Undermountain if you want to make full use of your time, but it is a significantly more difficult place to farm than glacial rift and it essentially gives a similar amount of electrum. If you still need farm electrum you're better holding off on completing Gywn's last task and farming at the glacial rift.
I actually solo a lot in this game so healing items are a must in a lot of situations. but I get that consumables fall to the wayside for a lot of people in a game like this because why stop to chew some grass in the middle of a fight when you have a girl who can heal you instantly, infinitely and much more effectively.
as for not being able to disarm shutting down warriors and thieves... yeah it's annoying. I think It's a perfectly valid complaint and I think it points to a strange disparity in the game where enemy's can still attack while disarmed but can't defend or tease if it's not one of their skills. Frankly there are a lot of issues with the games combat, as it stands, it's functional but there's a LOT that could be improved. my biggest issue with it continues to be and has been from the start is that if the PC goes down you just lose. It doesn't matter how they try to defend this it will never make sense and always be a detriment to the combat system.
This doesn't make any sense my other two teammates are still up why can't they finish the fight? Also why can't teammates use items?
Also a note, Cait's ultimate, Devotion, is a revive. It revives an ally, providing 25% of their health and 100 resolve. This, however, isn't really good in my opinion, because the Champ going down instantly ends an encounter, and Cait can't exactly use it on herself. So that means it's only useful if your third party member is the first to go down, and also goes down due to resolve since the hp factor is so small.
Yet, another problem with it is that I'm fairly certain the 100 resolve thing was intended to essentially be a full restore, a +resolve counterpart to the White Mage's Revive, which restores 25 resolve and 100% health. The thing is, level 5 (and ultimates) were added in December of 2019, while the current Resolve system (where resolve scales with stats rather than being static) was created in December of 2020. So now 100 resolve is much less than a full restore- heck, on some of my champs, that's less than half. Not that that matters too much, given that it can't be used on the champ, but for other party members it's still far from a full resolve heal. Given how the game currently is, Devotion is pretty bad. It's a small hp heal, and impartial resolve heal, and can only be used on whatever party member is 1: not the pc, and 2: not Cait. It's still a revive, but it's so much worse than Revive, even though they're applied to different situations.
And as I said in my post, it certainly seems like it will be distributed evenly. Just because it currently is doesn't mean it will always be like that.
In the interim it may seem punitive, sure, but I'd argue that the Disarmed Combat Effect is much better than the Stunned Combat Effect, because you actually have options (even if you don't see it as such).
Even if you see Defending as "useless", when Stunned your PC is still taking full damage, so taking less damage is still better overall. And if you've got sufficient party diversity considering the three different damage types (Physical, Magical, Resolve), then you'd be able to synergize via utilizing Tease attacks in any case. As well as using damaging Consumables, you'd be able to continue to apply that sought after Health damage you're talking about.
Anyway, for Combat Effects, I could see some argument for having some form of Diminishing Returns, where if one was afflicted with a specific Combat Effect, they would gain either some Temporary Immunity (1 to 2 turns after the Combat Effect they're Immune to being afflicted with the same Combat Effect again), or Temporary Reduction in the next application of said Combat Effect (3 turn Disarmed Combat Effect applied to PC -> PC does whatever action for the next 3 turns -> PC gets another 3 second Disarmed Combat Effect applied -> Diminishing Returns result in the PC's new Disarmed Combat Effect only lasting for 1 turn).
I'd argue that it would only be "weak enough [to not have] much of an impact" if there wasn't party diversity to bridge that gap. You have access to Bimbo set Azzy, Dancer set Cait and Base set Quin.
If you're playing as a Physical damaging PC, I'd argue that having inclusion for every damage type would make sense for a typical party composition (specifically because of how prevalent / powerful Resolve damage is in this game). That way even if your Physical damaging PC was Disarmed, they'd be able to synergize with your Resolve damaging Companion by using Tease attacks (assuming it's not an encounter with an NPC that's immune to Resolve damage), and actually feel as though the specific Tease attacks were actually resulting in something instead of just feeling "useless".
I'd argue that it's not "practically nothing" though, because in the event that one was Stunned for 3 turns in a row (assuming RNG like that exists in the first place), one would take full damage over all 3 of those turns. However, if one was Disarmed instead for 3 turns and Defended for all 3 of those turns, they'd have taken reduced damage for the duration - definitely seems a bit better than being unable to take action (as when Stunned).
Sure, you're not able to do the Physical damage that you want if your PC is disarmed, but you are still able to see some level of impact (by your PC taking less damage) in the encounter that you wouldn't see if your PC was Stunned.
Doesn't particularly matter the identifier used for the bias, it is bias nonetheless. And whilst your first hand experiences with Defending might result in you thinking it's "useless", you have to admit that you'd take sufficiently less damage than if your PC was Stunned, yes?
Consumables? Yes, whilst not the most conventional, they do still allow for you to deal Health damage to enemy NPCs, even if you're playing a Physical damaging PC. Your prior complaints could somewhat be negated with items such as the Leananstone and the Ley-crystal Grenade. Because even though the Ley-crystal Grenade is rather difficult to come by, it still does Health damage, and whilst Leananstone adds Cunning and Willpower to its damage, it also allows for one to deal Health damage (and is directly purchasable from the start of the game; from Ivris).
So in that regard, your PC would still be capable of dealing damage, even though it'd be a different damage type (Magical damage), at reduced damage, I'd imagine it'd be somewhat comparative to a "enemy desperation attack" in any case.
Sure, I can understand that. But that highlights that it's not exactly a Combat Effect that only impacts one Class, it has some affect for all, just at varying degrees.
Just how you could say that (if the Silenced Combat Effect becomes more prevalent) it'd have more effect on Magical damaging PCs than it would on Physical damaging PCs. Just because that'd be true, doesn't mean that a Physical damaging PC couldn't be affected at all, because as I mentioned above with using Leananstone, if the Physical damaging PC was Silenced, they'd no longer be able to throw it as it's listed as a Spell Power as well. While in the scenario that would be to a lesser effect for the Physical damaging PC than the Magical damaging PC, I'd still say the argument is rather comparative seeing as it only affects on aspect of each PCs damaging types (and what action they take, seeing as the Magical damaging PC could still Defend, or Tease, same with this case study we're talking about).
Sure not being able to utilize Powers can be annoying, but that's only a temporary thing (unless unlucky RNG). I'd say that with Charmer's occasionally having encounters were NPCs are immune to Resolve damage would be just as comparable though, albeit not to the same extent (due to frequency and all that). But as I stated, the difference in that would then be that the Charmer's would consistently be unable to use any of their Resolve damaging powers throughout the entire encounter, instead of only for a specific duration.
Yeah, I can understand your frustration, and I'd agree that the PC should technically be able to make an unarmed attack, because they actually carry a Rusty Knife when they're disarmed (so, possibly could have a Riposte button next the the Defend button and use the Rusty Knife).
But I do disagree with your consistent assertions of Physical damaging PCs being "useless" when disarmed, as seen in the above - there are objectively other options, you just have to change the way you see them.
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I've always hated that mechanic in games. I doubt most companions would surrender to the giant rape horse or horny guard captain given what the outcome would be. Plus like Tide said, all those restoring items and ultimate kinda lose their point when the player going down auto loses the fight.
You know in Persona 3, 4, and 5 they had the "if the MC dies its game over" thing but with those games the other party members can use items. So if say the MC is about to die and i'm on a teammate who doesn't have healing spells they can use a item to heal the MC and save them from death. Why can't it be the same here?
"Mitsuru please heal me I'm about to die."
"MARIN FUCKIN' KARIN!"
Jokes aside its probably a limitation of the AI for Coc2. Not to mention that they can't account for whatever items the player will bring with them. (Hence why the start of the quest advises you to come prepared.) Of course, there's always the option of directly controlling controlling party, which was only added after enough people complained if I recall correctly.
Addendum, I'm an idiot. Just tested it, and, well, the champ can get revived.
I still stand by Devotion being much worse than Revive, in terms of its mechanical effects, and also I think that your companions should still be able to fight after you get knocked down rather than being an instaloss if you lack a revival option, since the fact that the champion going down instantly looses makes Tank builds much less viable because, while Atugia or Azzy or Arona going down doesn't make you loose, you tanking for the party can make your loss even faster.
Really playing as a tank champion is hell in the early and mid game because of how easy it is to get knockdown and stunned and the lack of ways to revive. And the fact that both of your healers are stuck with the base heal and can't get the better great heal at higher levels.
I am embarrassed to admit but I forgot about that too and I got that screen from the Kas fight. In my defense, I'm an illiterate loot gremlin that raises her numbers up to prevent losing. Not to humble brag, but I don't usually lose unless intentionally to see a bad end. Usually. Stupid sexy Kas and her stupid sexy powers with good synergy.
Although griping about the player losing auto-failing the fight still stands. I don't see why the companions can't continue, just maybe without orders being an option. It's better than everyone apparently going unconscious when the player does.
I won't respond to the whole thing, I'd started before and was three quotes deep before I ended up deleting the response on accident, so I'll just focus in.
Also, it's much more likely to be disarmed for three turns, considering that Master Whisper has access to Aim: Weapon, a ranged ability which inflicts Disarmed for 3 turns, while, again, I'm fairly certain stun can only last for one turn.
Of course. I talked about how I liked stunned more than disarmed, despite how, factually, stunned is much worse for the player, aside from how stunned/prone gives immunity to being re-afflicted after you get hit by it. The presentation feels less painful to go through. S/P just moves past with little note, while disarmed flaunts itself in your face.
Why split up the party composition like that? If my third member is a tank, that's a benefit to the party. If the third member is a resolve damage dealer, then all the damage they do has absolutely no impact on what the rest of the party does unless the resolve damage dealer takes someone down, while doing hp damage (both physical and magical) allows all three to pile on their power and get things done faster.
That's literally impossible in the game at present. The game makes you stun and prone immune for, I think, two turns, whenever you get hit by one of them, and they only last for one turn, as far as I can tell. The next turn after getting stunned/knocked prone is spent recovering, but the turn after will always allow you to take an action, as you can not be inflicted with either until after that turn.
Also, it's much more likely to be disarmed for three turns, considering that Master Whisper has access to Aim: Weapon, a ranged ability which inflicts Disarmed for 3 turns, while, again, I'm fairly certain stun can only last for one turn.
Sufficiently less for what? If I have a competent healer and am not extremely overwhelmed such that I need to halve the damage or I will die, the end result would be the same: Either I wouldn't take damage and defending was useless, or I do take damage and the healer uses their next turn to heal my back up.
Yes. Ley-crystal grenades are really bad at, like, level 6, because cleave is severely outdamaging it, but if you're disarmed and use one it's still going to be a lot more damage than no damage. And the Leananstone does fit the role, honestly. Yeah, those two items do counter it, I suppose, even though the Leanan for a non-split type and non-thief weapon user will be pretty low, but still surprisingly nice for the situation. I'd still rather we be able to punch someone while disarmed, rather than chucking explosives, but it's something.
Probably, yeah? I never really consider consumables but they are an option while disarmed. Also, in regards to Tease, it may still be somewhat useful for a disarmed pc to use it. Especially considering my Thief, who was the super-strong physical damage dealer. Strong enough to straight up one-shot a Wraith-Touched Chimera, with no buffs from allies. That's largely due to the crit-focused build, and it just so happens that crits apply to teases as well. Also the Thief uses sexiness/temptation undergarments and uses the Royal Leathers, armor which itself gives 20 sexiness. And the end result of that is that she can semi-consistently put out 140 damage teases, despite being focused on dealing physical damage. That is, of course, a lot, but I generally don't use it except against the Slimes in the Valley.
But that's so lewd..
But really, there is a distinct lack of it that I can think of off the top of my head. I know that when you have Domrona and Cait in a threesome, the sex menu threesome features hand-holding while the two of you service Arona and the field scene when Arona comes down with the horni has the two of you holding hands while Arona rails you. There's also some handholding in Brint's date scene and similarly some in a few of Ryn's Winter City sightseeing events; I'd be very surprised if Alypia didn't write some more hand-holding into Ryn's sleep scenes. There's probably more that I'm forgetting but those are the ones that spring immediately to mind.
God this is giving me PTSD flashbacks.
You wouldn't believe how many people defended this bullshit system with "bUt tAcTiCs!101!".
The undermountain will be the death of me. Hordes of hobgoblins that are suspiciously powerful for level 4 enemies, tanky imps that apparently care for other imps and keep splitting damage, and those turbo buffed stone elementals. And since the only encounters so far seem to be enemies, it makes exploring or moving around a nightmare. The absolute second the proper waystones are added, I am never going into the undermountain again. The Chargers suck at their jobs. I'm probably gonna have to wait about this and the rift quests until the level cap is boosted so my stats can be better prepared. At least there are still rift skills I need to copy.
Really because I think I resolve nuked both the hobgoblins and imps with my charmer champion.
agreed. right now it's not worth it to go down there even to farm. it's not that the enemies are that tough to where I have trouble beating them, it's just that the fights take so long because the imp shankers take so long to die and the goblins have way more party members than there supposed to, making fights that would would take 1-3 turns take 4-7. and like you said the lack of not combat encounters makes getting anywhere a pain in the ass.
I mainly use a warrior and occasionally a black mage so I don't really use tease combat. I don't have any reliable tease skills or stats for it and using dancer cait and bimbazzy will put me at a disadvantage unless I commit to becoming their healslut.
The enemies take so long to deal with and have no worthwhile drops. If they weren't all so tanky and hard to hit and so many it wouldn't be as bad. It's just combat, followed by combat, with a chaser of combat. I know it's early and more will be added and possibly rebalanced, but the enemy stats combined with being outnumbered makes it take too long to get anywhere. I'm beginning to think I need to put it and the rift off and pray that the next public patch includes the ability to raise my numbers.
Like I said, there will be no level cap raise until mid-act 2 at the earliest.
This one is a truly minor gripe, but what determines the Champion's race doesn't seem to be very accurate.
I was playing a Wyld Elf with cat eyes, got cow legs from barley tea, a minotaur shlong from Minoblood Wine, then an equine vagina from Kasyrra at the Palace of Ice.
Now my journal claims I'm a Centaur. I still only have two legs.
I only even noticed because after the Kasyrra encounter I got the Donut Steele achievement on Steam for changing my race.
Ultimately it has zero impact on my gameplay but it was still a confusing moment.
I was playing a Wyld Elf with cat eyes, got cow legs from barley tea, a minotaur shlong from Minoblood Wine, then an equine vagina from Kasyrra at the Palace of Ice.
Now my journal claims I'm a Centaur. I still only have two legs.
I only even noticed because after the Kasyrra encounter I got the Donut Steele achievement on Steam for changing my race.
Ultimately it has zero impact on my gameplay but it was still a confusing moment.
Caveat here that I don't know the ins and outs of the race code but I'm guessing that it's working as intended and you've just found an edge case. Your legs are digitigrade but the ones from Milk Tea are bovine, you don't have the other body traits that would make you a Marefolk (furred skin, muzzled face, equine ears/arms/legs), you're not a Minotaur (because you have a vagina) and you're not a Cowgirl (because you have a penis), hence it shunts you to Centaur.
Note that you will never get four legs in this game; 'taur and naga bodies aren't supported because it makes things so much easier when the writers don't have to account for those.
Note that you will never get four legs in this game; 'taur and naga bodies aren't supported because it makes things so much easier when the writers don't have to account for those.
I feel like Centaur shouldn't be in the player code then since having the four legged horse body is mandatory to BE a centaur.
Though considering the wacky stuff I had to go through to be classified as one, it's probably so buried it rarely comes up. It doesn't impact gameplay anyways.
I really just find it funny I was still called a Wyld Elf Hermaphrodite up until I got an equine vagina, THEN I became a centaur.
Why was the horse vagina the key factor in making me a centaur when it was the only horse trait I ever got?
Though considering the wacky stuff I had to go through to be classified as one, it's probably so buried it rarely comes up. It doesn't impact gameplay anyways.
I really just find it funny I was still called a Wyld Elf Hermaphrodite up until I got an equine vagina, THEN I became a centaur.
Why was the horse vagina the key factor in making me a centaur when it was the only horse trait I ever got?
Looking forward to eventually becoming level 8: I managed to snag two of Kas' three skills during the optional curbstomp she lays on you.
You also have a horse penis, which means two traits that put you in the 'something equine' category (neither of which is your Wyld Mark) and that was probably enough to bump you out of the parameters for 'Elf', but for the reasons I mentioned you have traits that disqualify you from any of the more obvious classifications. Like I said, it's probably an edge case.
I can guarantee from personal experience that having both a cock and a pussy doesn't lock you out of being considered either. I had a character which had every cowgirl trait from Bovum Sherry, and also a massive horse schlong and balls from Mino Wine. The character was considered a cowgirl. However, I wanted the character to be a minotaur, since cowgirls can't upgrade strength on level up while minotaurs can. So I gave the character fur, and that was enough to shift her from being considered a cowgirl to being considered a minotaur.
There's probably going to be a handful of niche cases like mine since due to the nature of rampant transformations, you can easily turn yourself into a complete abomination that defies proper definition. I think my character most reasonably should be considered either still a Wyld Elf with a bottom half that just does its own thing, or a Cowgirl, because 2/3rds of my transformations were cow/bull lower halves.
My confusion came down to why Centaur ended up being chosen because as loose as the relation between Cowgirls and Minotaurs is (Is it a female Minotaur or its own thing), Centaurs mandate four legs. If the Champion can't even get four legs, why was it an option?
I'd be genuinely interested in seeing the part of the code that determines race just because it has to keep track of so many potential shenanigans.
My confusion came down to why Centaur ended up being chosen because as loose as the relation between Cowgirls and Minotaurs is (Is it a female Minotaur or its own thing), Centaurs mandate four legs. If the Champion can't even get four legs, why was it an option?
I'd be genuinely interested in seeing the part of the code that determines race just because it has to keep track of so many potential shenanigans.
Because chimaera are the abominations usually, and satyrs are more related to goats than cows or horses which is why you get labeled a centaur for some reason rather than... a satyr.
I have that issue a lot myself, when I don't want fuzzy Leothran nuts or a black Leothran twat so the game labels my PC a manticore despite not having the tail, wings or a mane.
I have that issue a lot myself, when I don't want fuzzy Leothran nuts or a black Leothran twat so the game labels my PC a manticore despite not having the tail, wings or a mane.
Wouldn't I just be a Minotaur/Cowgirl or chimeric Wyld Elf then? For all intents and purposes I am a normal Wyld Elf from the waist up and a hermaphrodite cow from the waist down. Although, I don't think I have a tail either.
I don't normally touch transformations so dipping into all these crazy combos is entirely new ground for me. This happened on my side character, where I'm more liberal with messing around and don't care what happens to me.
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